I think a lot of young folks are being hoodwinked by Ron Paul...

[kentuck]

They know that he wants to end the wars. He seems to be the candidate for peace. In the minds of younger folks, and some older folks also, war is insane and cannot be understood from a basic human level. However, in my opinion, they are not looking closely enough at the full agenda of Ron Paul.

[baldguy]

1. Under Ron Paul, there will be eternal peace & you can have all the drugs you want

Just as long as you're OK with being a corporate slave.

[warrior1]

2. Hey good news

President Obama is ending the wars.

[Mr Dixon]

3. IMO

His drug policy is the keeper for the youth, not as if he would really change it, but it sounds good i guess

[EFerrari]

19. Ron Paul is what happens when people feel no one is speaking to them, imo.

People are so desperate to hear anything they care about, they latch onto him without looking at him carefully.

[onehandle]

4. Libertarianism in general is for non-thinkers who think they are thinkers.

Some think their will and ideas are best for all.

Most are selfish and self-centered.

Kevin Kline's character 'Otto' from A Fish Called Wanda was a perfect illustration.

Wanda: But you think you're an intellectual, don't you, ape?

Otto: Apes don't read philosophy.

Wanda: Yes, they do, Otto. They just don't understand it.

[gateley]

7. I think you nailed it -- and I called myself a Libertarian for a brief time after I'd heard

the then-POTUS candidate, Harry Browne, a couple of times on the radio. I thought I was very smart. Truly, a non-thinker.

I'm so glad that was so short-lived and that I grew up!

[PRETZEL]

9. me too nt

[Morning Dew]

23. I flirted with Harry Browne's libertarianism 35 years ago or so.

I read How I Found Freedom In An Unfree World and was pretty excited about this new thing I'd found.

That lasted about two weeks.

[gateley]

25. I never bothered to pursue it, though,

so my enamor w/Harry Browne was reawakened when I heard the Ron Paul sound bites. I'm SO grateful DU presented the facts I was too lazy to find on my own.

I remember not liking HB's reassurance that those in need would be taken care of by their community, like in the "old days", but I'm sure I could have convinced myself of it if I hadn't been shown the whole enchilada.

I'd like to think that I would have pursued and found out the truth eventually, but I don't have that much faith in myself.

[Morning Dew]

28. You would have.

I was jazzed by the personal freedom ideas - find yourself, be yourself, live a life of your own choosing.

It was a step on the road to coming out.


I remember thinking a lot of it was pretty unworkable in the real world.

[EFerrari]

20. Omg, Otto was a Ron Paul supporter.

lmao

[gateley]

5. I was initially interested in Ron Paul last time around because I'd only heard what these people are

hearing.

I found DU because I was so distraught about Bush being "reelected" that I decided to learn more about the candidates instead of just waiting until others decided for me. I even mentioned that here that I Paul was in my mix -- and not one person jumped down my throat. Instead, the DU community took the time to explain why Paul wasn't who I REALLY wanted for POTUS.

I heard the same sound bites and agreed with the message/approach. Had I not taken the time and been fortunate enough to find DU and be educated by the community, I don't know how much of the truth about him I would have learned.

Normally I'd be thrilled because a Paul vote is not a Romney (or whoever gets the nod) vote, but it seems as though many of those who are resonating with the sound bites are from OUR side.

Paul appears so "different" from the Dem/Rep political machine, that I think he may get a lot of write-in votes.

What do you think?

[freshwest]

10. A lot of people got interested in the Paulies during the Bush reign of terror. And during that time,

I even hoped for a combined ticket with Paul and Kucinich or Gravel. Unfortunately, there were other elements to the Paul people that indicated they were just GOP with a different brand.

And at the very start, the Tea Party was imagined to be a Progressive movement. But they all fell back into their Reaganesque roots. Paul himself is incompetent and his supporters are a cult.

They can get quite violent despite their R(EVOL)ution slogan, with love spelled backwards. They behave as a mob and Paul doesn't lead them. They don't find anything wrong with the Selection in 2000, because they have been taught to disrespect legal process as a liberal thing. They despise Democrats and progressives, calling them statists, government supporters.

It's easy to destroy, backbreakingly hard to build. They don't think things through. Paul would install a firmly theocratic, fascist economy in the USA.

Libertarianism is straight GOP. Tbey desire the liberty and freedom of not paying for irresponsible behavior toward others who cannot resist. They regard the government as evil because of regulation that may slow their getting rich, as well as those regulations that affect how they can treat their fellow citizens.

Most of the people in America don't fit their standard of being citizens, though. That includes women. I got in some debates with their kin, the taaparty and Consittution party. They want all amendment repealed. Women don't need education, or the right to vote, they need to stay home, make babies and clean. No kidding.

Their solution of letting the churches and families take care anyone they run over, is a failure and it is the default GOP position. If you don't have either church or family to take care of you in trouble, then die. It must have been something you did.

They don't address the bigger issues, since most of them are profiting from it. I"ve read the libertarian forums where they equate human life with dollars. Where they call for those who are disabled or born disabled to be euthanized, as they don't pay taxes. In their revered free market, those people are simply not viable commodities anymore. So leave.

All of this is just under the surface of their 'revolution.' They regard themselves as victims of liberals, welfare queens, government and the 'NWO.'

Tthey have pushed 'personhood' laws in all the states. Except at the moment the person leaves the womb, they are a commodity to be used and discarded. They don't think about the intrinsic evil they are turning a blind eye to.

In the end, they are fascists seeking a patrician social order with church and big bosses dominating everyone since the commons would be gone. It's working, too.

Since they see themselves as victims, you can't reason with them, although most of them are well-off.



I need coffee before I type!

[gateley]

11. EXCELLENT rant, freshwest!

Very VERY well done!!

[DefenseLawyer]

13. The Tea Party was invented, not formed. n/t

[Son of Gob]

17. Righteous rant

Very well said.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

36. I felt this way about Ralph Nader in 1996 and 2000.

After those mistakes, I vowed never again to be wooed by a politician who looks good on the surface but requires more inquiry, deliberation and critical thought before latching on.





(Note: I live in a very, very blue and progressive state, so my votes were protest votes.)

[HughBeaumont]

6. They can't see past "Legalize Weed".

Paul's an economic Darwinist just like every other Republican running; he supports tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans and corporations and opposes ending tax breaks for big oil and companies who ship jobs overseas. What's worse is that a) he's a "States Rights"-er b) he's a Grovel Nerdquist Pledge signer and c) he wants to eliminate much of the social safety net, not just defund it.

Strikes 1, 2 and 3 for me right there.

[GoCubsGo]

27. Exactly. However, many of these young people are students.

They need to be encouraged to do their homework on where Paul stands on student loans, Pell grants, public universities, etc. I strongly suspect that most of these kids will then think twice before they vote for that screwball.

In your guts, you know he's nuts.

[CTyankee]

29. and if they are young women, they have to understand that Paul's liberty talk stops with

pregnant women. He is more than happy to have the state step in and control/restrain a woman from having an abortion.

[Marrah_G]

8. Have Obama come out strongly for the legalization of Pot

Those young folks will come running back.

[i_sometimes]

21. No.

Fool me once...

NOTE: Not a Ron Paul supporter in any way, form or fashion. Not even close, never in a million years would I voice support or vote for the rat bastard. I would rather die, come back as a zombie and eat myself and then die again and then come back to life in Hell. And there is more but you get the point.

But Obama has no cred on this issue. And the youngsters that support him are in the minority.

[DefenseLawyer]

12. Plenty of young people buy into the "Social Security is bankrupt" baloney as well

They've been told their whole lives that Social Security doomed to failure, that they will never get anything out of it and that they are suckers for paying into it. No one likes to feel like a dupe. I've seen a lot of younger people that he strikes a chord with on social security, because they buy into the premise that it's just the government taking their money.

[kentuck]

14. True.

And judging from the direction we have gone in the last couple of decades, these young folks will need SS more than anyone.

[Locrian]

15. Same here

>>They've been told their whole lives that Social Security doomed to failure, tha

I work with a lot of them. They dont have a lot of life experience and feel like they can "manage their money" better. They see the government as the cause of the problems - not the influence of $$$ on our political process.

They tend to side with the corporations - since most see their $$ coming from them.

The twist that just kills me is that they think there is some sort of free market natural law that relies on complete lack of regulation.


That's the issue I have with RP. I don't get what he expects to happen when you remove ALL barriers to government from corporations completely controlling every aspect of people lives. He's rabid against one power structure while ignoring another - which is somehow magically supposed to go against their explicit purpose of making money at all costs. Yeah, I know he says the "market will regulate it" but what an infantile belief that a huge power structure wouldnt use that power for their OWN advantage.

[arbusto_baboso]

16. A "peace candidate" would not have voted to go into Afghanistan.

Ron Paul did that. Therefore he is NOTHING that he claims to be.

[Ter]

24. He regrets it

Hey, even I foolishly supported that war, after 9/11 and all. I bought all the BS lies the government told me.

[arbusto_baboso]

37. I didn't support the war.

And I've not exactly been a lifelong pacifist, as you can tell from my avatar.

Paul also opposed a timetable for Iraq drawdowns.

So don't tell me how much he "regrets" something that he obviously still supports.

[Ter]

38. Paul opposed the timetable because it was not for an unconditional exit

He opposed that war (and the 1991 one) from the start, and vigorously attacked both Bush's for it. Attack Paul for what he deserves. He has been good on war, only supporting Afghanistan in the last 30 years. He quickly changed his mind.

[arbusto_baboso]

42. Blah, blah, blah.

Paul is a raging hypocrite on this issue. And so are you for making excuses for him.

[FarLeftFist]

18. Except he'll declare war on education, the middle class, the Govt. and the environment

Among many other wars between states and our citizens.

[SomethingFishy]

22. Ron Paul is so far to the right

that he comes all the way back around to the left on a few issues.

He's crazier than all of the other candidates put together, and because of that some of his positions come out on the other side and are actually sane.

Not much anyone can do about it. But the guy's 15 are almost up anyway. He'll join Ross Perot in the history books.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

26. Yes, I agree. But I also believe that means there's something there to work with

Criminalizing Ron Paul fans won't help much in that regard. I'm not referring to your OP, rather, I'm referring to the excoriation received by anyone who says something like, "I agree with his stance on drugs". There's a lot of excitement out there for Ron Paul. Telling that excited base that they're all wet and that Paul supporters are losers, etc, is not helpful.

[Puzzledtraveller]

33. very good point

I know a few liberal and conservative defecters that moved to the homegenized middle where RP is attractive. Not to be confused with moderates. It would be smart to acknowledge their dissafection.

[pampango]

30. Graph: In NH Paul's support was highest among lower income voters.

[opihimoimoi]

31. His Solutions DO NOT PASS THE OVERVIEW TEST..Duration & Stability

His are mixed in ways to SOUND GOOD...

Too EXTREME and TOO DISTRACTIVE

Kahuna from Kaneohe

[Puzzledtraveller]

32. So is Obama to the right or left of RP?

[jwirr]

34. We need to locate a good source of R Paul literature that we can give to people like my grandson

who do not know what he is really about. He will not go and look into what Paul is really saying so he remains ignorant.

[RZM]

35. I think it's funny

That he's probably convinced more than a few people who don't even know what the Fed is that it has to be abolished.

[joshcryer]

39. I don't place much stake in young white male frat types, personally.

[Major Nikon]

40. I don't know about them being deceived by Ron Paul himself

Although Ron Paul certainly has made some statements that contradict his voting record, for the most part he is quite open and honest about his nutty ideas. Anyone who calls themselves a Ron Paul supporter and doesn't know about his batshit crazy ideas only have themselves to blame for their ignorance.

[slay]

41. I agree

he's for a few good things - but more importantly for a LOT of terrible ones. Dennis Kucinich holds the same positions as Paul on many of the issues important to young people like no pointless wars and legalizing marijuana. Paul has just marketed himself very well. I would love to see Kucinich get this kind of attention next time around.