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Wed Apr 7, 2021, 10:46 AM

The tighty righties are having a hissy fit on Twitter over this United Airlines announcement:



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Reply The tighty righties are having a hissy fit on Twitter over this United Airlines announcement: (Original post)
demmiblue Apr 7 OP
MontanaMama Apr 7 #1
PatSeg Apr 7 #18
Bettie Apr 7 #38
PatSeg Apr 7 #39
Karadeniz Apr 7 #2
nature-lover Apr 7 #3
lagomorph777 Apr 7 #5
LineLineLineReply !
demmiblue Apr 7 #6
AllyCat Apr 7 #4
sheshe2 Apr 7 #41
AllyCat Apr 7 #42
sheshe2 Apr 7 #44
Ocelot II Apr 7 #7
DFW Apr 7 #16
Ocelot II Apr 7 #19
Treefrog Apr 7 #24
DFW Apr 7 #28
sheshe2 Apr 7 #40
uponit7771 Apr 7 #8
ScratchCat Apr 7 #9
AZLD4Candidate Apr 7 #11
plimsoll Apr 7 #12
Captain Zero Apr 7 #33
grumpyduck Apr 7 #13
Duppers Apr 7 #20
Ocelot II Apr 7 #22
HUAJIAO Apr 7 #35
SCantiGOP Apr 7 #10
grumpyduck Apr 7 #14
Demobrat Apr 8 #45
IronLionZion Apr 7 #15
liberalla Apr 7 #17
taxi Apr 7 #21
aggiesal Apr 7 #23
RobinA Apr 7 #25
Ocelot II Apr 7 #34
hunter Apr 8 #47
BobTheSubgenius Apr 7 #26
Bob_in_VA Apr 7 #27
TygrBright Apr 7 #29
hunter Apr 8 #48
GoodRaisin Apr 7 #30
ancianita Apr 7 #31
calimary Apr 7 #32
mcar Apr 7 #36
Bettie Apr 7 #37
Carlitos Brigante Apr 7 #43
Redleg Apr 8 #46
grumpyduck Apr 8 #49
ck4829 Apr 8 #50
Demobrat Sunday #51
ck4829 Sunday #52

Response to demmiblue (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 10:49 AM

1. Sounds like a horrible initiative and

I can see why they’d be so upset...


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Response to MontanaMama (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:51 AM

18. Why on earth are so many discriminating

against white men??? Is there no justice in this world???

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #18)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 05:40 PM

38. Right? I mean, if we just

gave them a chance once in a while, they never get to do anything*



*Without being bugged by the other humans on the planet thinking they have rights and stuff.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #38)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 09:59 PM

39. It must really suck

to be so oppressed and misunderstood. I don't know how they can bear it!

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Response to demmiblue (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 10:50 AM

2. Of course they're swooning. Wouldn't want nice and fair to enter the picture.

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Response to demmiblue (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 10:54 AM

3. Tighty righties. Love that.

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Response to nature-lover (Reply #3)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:22 AM

5. Spitey Whiteys

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #5)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:23 AM

6. !

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Response to demmiblue (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:14 AM

4. I really do love this

Just wish we could break down the structural barriers and racism that prevent qualified candidates from getting the support they need to pursue careers because of discrimination against different groups.

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Response to AllyCat (Reply #4)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 10:52 PM

41. Matt seems a tad upset.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #41)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:41 PM

42. What a horrible person, this mat.

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Response to AllyCat (Reply #42)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:50 PM

44. Asshole extraordinaire!

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Response to demmiblue (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:24 AM

7. Good for them. Pilot training is horrifically expensive

so you can't do it any more without either a lot of your own money or crushing loans. Of course the righties would be horrified at the prospect of an airplane they are riding on being flown by one of "those people."

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Response to Ocelot II (Reply #7)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:41 AM

16. Back when I lived in the States

Most pilots I knew got their start in the Air Force, as it was the only way to learn to fly a plane and get experience for free. An F-18 doesn't prepare you for a 777 with 350 people on board, but it does give you the basics of how to pilot a plane. Learning how to fly other models comes a lot easier if you have had solid experience beforehand.

True funny story to go with this: a friend of a Dutch colleague was obsessed with speed. He made himself some money, and bought an expensive German car just so he could drive over to Germany and drive the Autobahn, where there are no speed limits. In the Netherlands, the limit usually is 120 KPH (around 75 MPH) max, and they enforce it. But even the German Autobahn wasn't enough, so he took lessons and got his pilot's license. One day, on his way over to Germany, his anticipation took over before he crossed the border, and a Dutch cop stopped him doing something like 200 KPH, usually enough to get your car and your license confiscated. The enraged cop who stopped him demanded to see his registration and his pilot's license. The guy said, "sure," and handed the cop his registration and his pilot's license. The cop stopped for a second, and studied the document handed him, as it looked nothing like a driver's license. When he saw it really WAS a pilot's license, he burst out laughing. He told the guy, "in fifteen years of using that line this is the first time anyone really DID hand me their pilot's license." In honor of the occasion, he let the guy off, but warned him that if he ever caught him AGAIN doing that speed within the Netherlands, he WOULD lose his car AND his driver's license (though, presumably, he'd be allowed to keep his pilot's license).

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Response to DFW (Reply #16)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:57 AM

19. I have a similar story.

I also have a pilot's license, including a flight instructor certificate, got it the slow, expensive way. A pilot friend (general aviation, not airline) was driving through Wisconsin, whose state troopers are notoriously aggressive and hostile, when he was pulled over for speeding. The trooper said, "You were really flying. Let me see your pilot's license." My friend handed him his pilot's license. The cop looked at it, sighed, and said, "Get outta here!" And he didn't give him a ticket.

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Response to Ocelot II (Reply #19)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 12:04 PM

24. That's a great story! I love it!

Going to share this with a pilot friend of mine!

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Response to Ocelot II (Reply #19)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 12:29 PM

28. I'll have to pass that on to Holland

Someone needs to tell them their story isn't unique any more. I'll have to break it to them gently....

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Response to Ocelot II (Reply #19)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 10:48 PM

40. I love this.

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Response to demmiblue (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:26 AM

8. K&R

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Response to demmiblue (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:27 AM

9. You have to have prior piloting experience

to fly commercial airlines. That means the pool of candidates almost always comes from the military. Its a simple fact that female and minority pilots are just uncommon. There simply isn't a "diverse pool of candidates" that they speak of. 50% of people looking to be a commercial pilot would never consist of women and minorities.

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Response to ScratchCat (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:32 AM

11. Unless they are willing to hire and train all the way through

Otherwise, you're correct.

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Response to ScratchCat (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:33 AM

12. Or, you fly for a small regional or charter.

The norm is for air force pilots its true, but there are alternative paths. If United requires that for their branded regionals that will be a real opening.

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Response to plimsoll (Reply #12)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 01:01 PM

33. I knew a guy who got a degree from Purdue U.

In one of the Aeronautical programs, and I'm pretty sure he didn't go to military, but rather the Airlines took him and trained him from that background. Maybe this aid program is to put some people through Purdue, Georgia Tech, etc. before giving them airlines training? Just my guess.

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Response to ScratchCat (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:36 AM

13. There's also the fact that some people just aren't interested in flying.

Just like any other field. Not everyone wants to be a doctor, corporate person, programmer, cop, or anything else.

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Response to ScratchCat (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:59 AM

20. My dh's cousin's daughter

Flies for American. Her mother's having worked as a flight attendant for American for 30yrs probably gave her an edge.


(Funny fact: her dad won ribbons & $ in national hot-air balloon races for yrs. & yep, he's taken us up a couple of times.)


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Response to ScratchCat (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 12:00 PM

22. They aren't mostly military any more.

Before I retired I worked in the training department of a major airline. Far more than half of the new hires came from regional airlines, not the military; the Air Force doesn't need as many pilots as it used to. But they were still almost all white men, though more women and PoC were being hired.

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Response to ScratchCat (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 05:13 PM

35. OR- getting flying instruction and -- I forget how many-- hours of general aviation

flight time....
Many flight instructors are just cranking out hours so they can apply to one of the airlines, beginning on smaller reginal carriers, usually sub-contracted out by the majors.... That's how my instructor decades ago did it. She was hired by Delta and for all I know is still flying...

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Response to demmiblue (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:31 AM

10. What the right wing doesn't understand:

Big corporations don’t take these actions because of liberal political beliefs. They exist to maximize profit for their owners and stockholders, and being a modern and inclusive organization is the best way to create a good image for customers now and in the future.
There’s a very good reason most private company market research is directed st the 20-50 year old set. United Air is not concerned that some old fool in a red baseball cap might be thinking, “Oh my God, I think our pilot might be gay (or Muslim or black or etc etc).”

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Response to demmiblue (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:38 AM

14. The worst flying experience of our lives was on United.

And we've flown a lot. Not just the flight itself, but the response afterwards.

United is permanently in our shithouse.

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Response to grumpyduck (Reply #14)

Thu Apr 8, 2021, 01:18 AM

45. Mine too.

After the fourth time they stranded me I swore never again and stuck to it. Their schedules are rough estimates and their passengers are treated like necessary annoyances with credit cards.

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Response to demmiblue (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:39 AM

15. The GOP is affirmative action for conservatives

considering how many Trump administration appointees were completely unqualified for their roles and were often trying to destroy their agencies from within.

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Response to demmiblue (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:47 AM

17. K & R! Excellent! Thank you United Airlines! I love the direction we are going, and that

Corporations are getting on board... how are the repukes going to stop change?

Yes they'll try, but... I don't see how they can stop it.

Again, kudos to United!

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Response to liberalla (Reply #17)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 12:00 PM

21. You beat me to it.

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Response to demmiblue (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 12:02 PM

23. The RWNJ's on twitter are assuming that all women or POC won't be the best pilot available ...

To them unless their pilot's name is White Goodman, they're not good pilots.

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Response to demmiblue (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 12:23 PM

25. I Think Anyone

could be a good pilot, but I'll pass on any airline who will hire pilots based on anything except how good they are. Electing to hire in order to reach a pre-determined ratio of various demographics of the pilots does not make me feel confident about who is in the cockpit.

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Response to RobinA (Reply #25)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 05:12 PM

34. I used to do pilot training.

Trust me, it's not easy, and you won't get through it unless you're good at it. No airline will hire people based on their demographic qualifications, but it looks like United is trying to make the career accessible to people who have often been excluded because the training that qualifies a person for an airline job is so expensive now. But they'll have to get through some very challenging training.

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Response to RobinA (Reply #25)

Thu Apr 8, 2021, 09:18 AM

47. There's no shortage of talented people in any demographic.

There are shortages of opportunities.

If most pilots are white guys you can assume it's a shortage of opportunity.

The same applies to college admissions and 99% of all work, even physical labor.

My grandmother was a welder in the shipyards during World War II. She must have been good at it because they kept her on when the war ended. Most women were sent home so that returning soldiers could take their jobs. My grandma then got assigned to lightweight repetitive detail work that women were supposedly better at. I think she would have been happier if she'd continued on with the "men's work," assembling huge plates of steel.

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Response to demmiblue (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 12:23 PM

26. "Muh cuzin Cletus had his eye on one a them jobs."

I hear he even went to night school to try to evolve a thumb.

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Response to demmiblue (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 12:28 PM

27. No "qualified" female pilots?

That will come as a surprise to Colonel Kim Nichole Reed-Campbell, a decorated (DFC with Valor) A-10 pilot.

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Response to demmiblue (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 12:35 PM

29. What are all the drunk white ex-military pilot bros gonna do for a job NOW?!?

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Response to TygrBright (Reply #29)

Thu Apr 8, 2021, 09:36 AM

48. The Republican Party is always looking for white bros

Easy job.

Qualified candidates will have a history of incompetence, sexual assaults, DUI convictions, etc..

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Response to demmiblue (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 12:41 PM

30. And they are offering financial aid for the best and brightest talent.

Seriously, what kind of moron would object to having the best and brightest flying them around?

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Response to demmiblue (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 12:43 PM

31. According to the FAA in 2017,

across all pilot categories there was a total of 42,694 active pilot certificates held by women in the US.

There's a pool for United to draw from.

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Response to demmiblue (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 12:51 PM

32. Hey, at this point, WHATEVER IT IS that they don't like, I will LOVE.

If they don't like something, it must be good for everybody else who isn't republi-CON or super-rich.

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Response to demmiblue (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 05:36 PM

36. Just booked a United flight for September

I'm glad I did.

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Response to demmiblue (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 05:39 PM

37. That is because the appear to be incapable of comprehending

that they aren't going to throw untrained people into pilots' seats.

FFS, people who aren't white men can do things too.

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Response to demmiblue (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:44 PM

43. Horrible! White men just can't catch a break!!! nt

This is the DU member formerly known as Guy Whitey Corngood.

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Response to demmiblue (Original post)

Thu Apr 8, 2021, 02:28 AM

46. "I want the best pilot when I fly."

So many of the bigoted commenters said this. How the fuck do they know who the best pilot is? Would they be willing to pay more to fly on the plane with the best pilot?

I commend United on this effort. Only a person with poor reading comprehension of United's statement or a fucking bigot would make such a big deal out of this. It goes to prove that these ignorant people do make assumptions about the fitness of women and minorities to pilot airplanes because they are offended by an attempt to make the pilots more diverse.

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Response to demmiblue (Original post)

Thu Apr 8, 2021, 12:00 PM

49. I checked out their web site.

There's a 2+ year training process for getting a pilot job with United, and it's not guaranteed. Also, you have to pay approx. $71,000 to go through it. Of course, financial aid is available.

And just like with military training, there are lot of opportunities to bounce out of the program.

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Response to demmiblue (Original post)

Thu Apr 8, 2021, 12:06 PM

50. Great... now what about being a pilot? Does that mean financial mobility? Heck, stability?

You might not think it... being such an essential position and each individual pilot being trusted with the lives of hundreds of people and some of the most expensive machines money can buy, but pilots often live in dismal conditions and often do not make enough to get by.

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Response to ck4829 (Reply #50)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 03:31 AM

51. That's shocking

I would have thought good pilots were worth their weight in gold.

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Response to Demobrat (Reply #51)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 04:34 AM

52. "That's shocking" is what I said too

You really have to love what you do, or be exceedingly patient, to consider becoming a regional airline pilot.

Aviation consultant Kit Darby says regional airline co-pilots and pilots, in the lower ranks, at least, don’t make a living wage.

In fact, the mechanic at your local gas station, or even the taxi driver who drives along the streets of your town, sometimes taking trips of a longer duration than regional flights, may be pulling down more cash per hour than the bottom rungs of first officers, i.e. co-pilots, at regional airlines.

Most view their service on regional airlines as an apprenticeship or stepping-stone to a big payday at mainline airlines. The exception is the top ranks of the regional airline pilots, where captains with 15 years’ experience can earn $100,000 to $110,000 per year, Darby says.

https://skift.com/2013/08/28/the-u-s-airline-pilots-who-barely-make-minimum-wage/


The next time you’re flying in an airplane consider this: The person operating the aircraft might not be making much more than the person who made the Egg McMuffin you ate for breakfast.

That’s right. According to the Wall Street Journal, new airline pilots rank among the lowest-paid workers in the country, with some regional pilots earning as little as $15,000 per year.

That’s horrifying for a number of obvious reasons. For one, $15,000 — or even $22,400 a year, the starting salary for pilots at 14 regional airlines — is lower than the federal poverty line for a family of four in the U.S.

It’s also startling because of the extraordinary price of becoming a pilot in the first place. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, airline pilots usually need a bachelor’s degree, a pilot’s license, and certification that requires hundreds of hours of flight training. According to Bloomberg Businessweek, the cost of training flights alone can set you back more than $100,000.

No wonder there’s a shortage of pilots.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/pilots-minimum-wage_n_4775989


It's anecdotal, but I have also heard tales of pilots living in absolutely cramped conditions, squalor even, with 8-12 other pilots in apartments not meant for 8-12 people when they're all not working.

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