General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsChauvin Wanted To Kill George Floyd No Other Explanation
He choked Mr. Floyd to death. He kept choking him long after he stopped moving. He kept others from rendering aid. He wanted to make sure the victim was dead.
Chauvin wanted to and did kill George Floyd on purpose.
No other explanation.
He just wanted to kill.
Rec if you agree plz.
Irish_Dem
(46,981 posts)bluestarone
(16,924 posts)That's the way i see it!!
cstanleytech
(26,286 posts)as you would have to establish that the actions taken were premediated beforehand and that the intent was to kill him.
stopdiggin
(11,300 posts)I don't agree with that assessment -- but taken as truth, it would allow for 1st degree.
SKKY
(11,804 posts)...but his attitude during the incident, which I would describe as aggressive indifference, leads me to believe that if something happened and George Floyd died, he wouldn't have lost any sleep over it. Chauvin was a cop for 18 years. You don't make it that far setting out to kill people. I would be very interested to know how many times Chauvin has been investigated by IA, and for what.
brush
(53,771 posts)They weren't allowed by the judge to be mentioned during the trial. And after 18 years of being on the job he had to know what he was doing was way too much force on someone's neck for way too long, with people pleading for him to stop and a rescue tech also asking to check for a pulse, and having to be asked by the arriving rescue workers to get off his neck.
No, something was up with that.
demtenjeep
(31,997 posts)he is dirty
Oppaloopa
(867 posts)He thought he was getting fired. But no they moved him into narcotics They thought he would fit in more. Not that it is right but his violations were always regarding sexual assaults of children and the beating of women.
ToxMarz
(2,166 posts)so why not go out doing what he's been wanting to do for 18 years.
KPN
(15,642 posts)doing it, and even after (another 3 minutes) the deed was done. Whats the difference? A netter of degrees: 1st vs 2nd of the highest possible order. It was intentional gross negligence. Attitude should matter as much as intent.
TigressDem
(5,125 posts)Both George Floyd and Derek Chauvin lived in Minnesotas Twin Cities and even worked at the same nightclub before Chauvin knelt on Floyds neck during an arrest on May 25, killing him. But their lives were worlds apart.
Chauvin lived in a predominantly white St. Paul suburb and racked up 18 complaints over his 19-year career as a police officer, 16 of which were closed without discipline.
Chauvin had a reputation for being overly aggressive and combative, according to the nightclub owner who employed him as a security guard.
One woman who filed a complaint against him in 2007 said Chauvin and another officer pulled her out of her car with no explanation.
SKKY
(11,804 posts)...If they worked at the same nightclub, perhaps there was some history between the two of them that hasn't come to light?
machoneman
(4,006 posts)and one where Chauvin intended to kill and thought his police badge allowed him to so so scot-free.
Evolve Dammit
(16,725 posts)TigressDem
(5,125 posts)NOW he says that Chauvin was still aggressive, but he misspoke about Chauvin and Floyd "butting heads" at the venue.
Wonder WHY he all of the sudden thinks it was some "other black guy" that he worked with... ?
Reports I heard back at the start of the investigation said that Chauvin pulled out the pepper spray over the least offense.
So when you see people telling him to stop killing the guy whose neck his knee is pressing into.... and he grabs the pepper spray to keep people back.... it tracks.
George gave back the cigarettes he had purchased when the clerk told him the bill was counterfeit. He may have been high, but he was still more in possession of his humanity than Chauvin was.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/george-floyd-derek-chauvin-nightclub-bumped-heads-changes-story/
MVP Kamala
(1,235 posts)Bettie
(16,095 posts)because he refused to even fake remorse.
I don't think he has ever even suggested that he might have been wrong to do what he did.
True Dough
(17,303 posts)that I find mildly refreshing, is hearing from other cops who are willing to call out Chauvin's inexcusable conduct.
brush
(53,771 posts)pf silence will influence other cops nationwide to not defend killer cops in their ranks.
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)I think George Floyd had seen something.
What Im thinking. I was hoping some insight would come out at trial, but I havent heard.
niyad
(113,277 posts)jcgoldie
(11,631 posts)Ever since I heard that connection I've felt there was a personal aspect to this violence that goes even beyond all too normal white cop abusing his authority with a black victim. Racist cops unnecessarily shooting African Americans like Michael Brown in Florissant is very common... but kneeling on the neck of a handcuffed person for 3 minutes after they are dead is personal.
dameatball
(7,397 posts)apparently did not at least know each other in some respect. If I own a club, I want my security people to be able to know who belongs, who doesn't, who they can ask for assistance, etc. Even if they worked different shifts or if the club had more than one venue it still seems weird.
Fla Dem
(23,655 posts)There had to be some interaction that bothered Chauvin and he held a grudge. This was the way he paid Floyd back.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)He wanted to experience the 'thrill of the kill,' and he did. Maybe he has done it before, and liked the feeling.
mzmolly
(50,985 posts)he did. There is no other explanation for his actions. What's most baffling, is that he was assisted in the commission of murder by three other cops.
burrowowl
(17,639 posts)tirebiter
(2,536 posts)No physical interference, just the comment. Hell also be on trial.
Jim__
(14,075 posts)I doubt Floyd's treatment was all that unusual. The police had put Floyd on the ground and they were going to hobble him. They got the hobble, but then for some reason they didn't hobble him. The ambulance was called about 1 minute after Floyd was put on the ground, it was called to treat a mouth injury. It may be that they had decided not to hobble him until after he was treated by the ambulance.
Then he was held on the ground with Chauvin kneeling on his neck 'til the ambulance arrived. Probably not the first time he had kneeled on someone's neck. Probably not the first time someone in Chauvin's custody was put at serious risk. But it took the ambulance 8 minutes to get there. He'd probably never kneeled on someone's neck for that long.
I think Chauvin was just being his usual asshole self. He didn't even know that he couldn't kneel on someone's neck for 9 and a half minutes.
mzmolly
(50,985 posts)Last edited Thu Apr 8, 2021, 08:38 PM - Edit history (1)
Chauvin lifted his foot off the ground to apply the weight of his body to Floyd's neck. If this is common practice for Chauvin, I wonder how many others have died under his restraint?
My guess is he took the Warrior Training classes vs adhered to his official training.
https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2020/05/bob-kroll-minneapolis-warrior-police-training/
Chauvin is a registered Republican, who applied his toxic mentality, to his work.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-derek-chauvin-democrat/fact-check-derek-chauvin-is-not-a-registered-democrat-among-other-claims-idUSKBN23Q2MW
I don't think it was accidental.
wnylib
(21,433 posts)body language tell me that he knew his actions could be fatal. He was enjoying every minute, especially seeing the bystanders get upset and beg him to stop. Then Chauvin followed up by denying treatment. He WANTED George Floyd dead. Cop against a Black man. He was sure that he would get away with it.
I think there were personal and racial motives.
demtenjeep
(31,997 posts)he relished it
Nutella
(9 posts)wnylib
(21,433 posts)sarge43
(28,941 posts)BobTheSubgenius
(11,563 posts)He surely didn't mind that Mr. Floyd died, did he?
DanieRains
(4,619 posts)I have heard it called.
BobTheSubgenius
(11,563 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,282 posts)is no way could you be kneeling on someone's neck and not feel the live leave that body. He knew Floyd was dead and he kept the knee there for a few minutes just to make sure.
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)For some reason he not only wanted George Floyd dead, he wanted him beyond the point of revival dead.
ShazzieB
(16,380 posts)"For some reason he not only wanted George Floyd dead, he wanted him beyond the point of revival dead."
I absolutely agree.
marieo1
(1,402 posts)Chauvin is one man that never should have been in law enforcement. I hope and pray he gets what he's got coming.
world wide wally
(21,741 posts)Ocelot II
(115,681 posts)even a decent human being, but:
He had to have known about the Minneapolis cop who was convicted of third-degree murder two years previously under circumstances that were bad enough, but not as appalling as kneeling on someone's neck for nine minutes in front of a dozen witnesses. He'd had complaints against him for excessive force in the past, and he certainly knew that if he actually killed someone he might not survive yet another IA investigation.
There's no way to know for sure what's going on in another person's head, but what I think happened was that he regarded George Floyd as just another bothersome Black druggie who didn't deserve to be treated humanely. He assumed Floyd was complaining about being unable to breathe only because he didn't want to be arrested, and when he stopped moving Chauvin assumed he'd finally succeeded in forcing him to quit struggling and objecting to being restrained. He didn't believe he'd injured or even killed Floyd until an EMT told him Floyd had no pulse - at which point he might have realized he was in deep shit and tried to act like it was all just a normal arrest of a guy who'd gone wild on account of drugs and whatever happened to Floyd wasn't his (Chauvin's) fault. I think the case falls squarely within the "depraved indifference" standard in the third-degree murder statute. Chauvin did not regard Floyd as a human being but merely as a nuisance who was making Chauvin's job more difficult. He may have also been angry that the bystanders were challenging him and demanding that he stop restraining Floyd because he couldn't breathe, and had an attitude of "I'm not going to let those (insert racist insult here) tell me how to handle this arrest, and I'm going to pin this asshole down as long as it takes to make him stop moving and complaining." Did he consciously intend to kill him? Probably not. Did he give a crap what happened to him? Also no.
mzmolly
(50,985 posts)minute video?
Also, there was much testimony about how police are trained not to leave a person in a prone position, for a prolonged period. Floyd should have been turned on his side, after he was cuffed.
Ocelot II
(115,681 posts)But it doesn't prove his intent to actually kill Floyd. It is, however, ample evidence of depraved indifference. If the prosecutors thought they could have proved intentional, premeditated murder beyond a reasonable doubt they'd have charged that crime, but they didn't.
mzmolly
(50,985 posts)given the nature of their work. But, premeditation can happen in a second.
We agree that there is ample evidence of depraved indifference. What's baffling to me is the application of additional pressure to Floyd's neck when he was begging police to let up. That, and keeping him prone while applying pressure to his neck and back. I can't wrap my head around anything but first degree intentional murder.
Ocelot II
(115,681 posts)they could prove it. Better to charge 2 and 3 than risk acquittal.
mzmolly
(50,985 posts)It's best to be certain he's found guilty than let a questionable technicality get him off.
llashram
(6,265 posts)racially motivated "depraved indifference"!!! This LEO knew exactly what he was doing to Mr Floyd. Chauvin is a racist pig with no conscience when it comes to POC, African-Americans specifically. He intended the harm he did to Mr Floyd. No doubts.
ashredux
(2,605 posts)No, I disagreed to a point. First, he wanted to show who was in charge.
He was somewhat showing off for the rookie cops he was training.
He wanted to punish Floyd, and he thought he could render him unconscious without killing him when he started.
Once I think, he realized, that he had gone to far he could not back off. So he just kept going. In his mind he was calculating how he could explain the death of this black man.
He needs to spend the rest of his life in jail. He killed him. Outright killed him. That just had his
Kahuna
(27,311 posts)RussBLib
(9,006 posts)other than some unbridled murderous impulse?
So many killings, who's got time for excuses/explanations/motivations? sarcasmic insertions
I think this will be yet another time we don't get to the true motivation.
If they don't convict Chauvin, well .......
mzmolly
(50,985 posts)He was pissed off and wanted to control Floyd and the 'scene' at all costs. He won. Briefly.
FailureToCommunicate
(14,013 posts)Too bad the judge in this trial dis-allowed this past pattern of arrest.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)moondust
(19,976 posts)I obviously don't know his history but his prolonged expressionless, nonchalant appearance suggests to me that he was deriving inner pleasure from inflicting pain on the black man and couldn't stop.
Joinfortmill
(14,417 posts)If this is true, it's more ammunition against Chauvin. https://www.ajc.com/news/did-george-floyd-and-derek-chauvin-know-each-other-worker-says-they-did/ljRJcFGDMp3H1LBBqcebKN/
Mike Niendorff
(3,460 posts)They knew each other, were coworkers on a security gig that Chauvin did on the side.
This wasn't just two random strangers.
Chauvin knew who he was killing, and knew he was a fellow security officer.
MDN
Akbar
(307 posts)The day the video came out on. YouTube, I watched it and did not see any clue that Chauvin wanted any outcome that involved Floyd leaving the scene alive. Chauvin was enjoying executing Floyd. You could see it on his face.
40RatRod
(532 posts)...please put him in with the general prison population. Bet his pucker string will draw up.
Response to DanieRains (Original post)
40RatRod This message was self-deleted by its author.
Cozmo
(1,402 posts)He got caught up in his own failings as a human being and rather admit to himself and others that he needed to stop and render assistance he preferred George Floyd's death. I hate this man more than poison, I fear he will not be punished enough. I also question the motives of the presiding judge.
Response to DanieRains (Original post)
Post removed
Ocelot II
(115,681 posts)gopiscrap
(23,757 posts)please don't be a cop apologist
Ocelot II
(115,681 posts)that all cops are like Chauvin because they aren't. There are far too many bad cops but we are also seeing good cops in this trial, like Medaria Arradondo. I live in Minneapolis. There are some good cops here.
sarisataka
(18,627 posts)Nutella
(9 posts)I don't like the justice system at all, but not all police fall to his level.
barbtries
(28,789 posts)thought that all along. all these people were telling him he can't breathe, you're killing him and he just kept doing it. imo he should have pled guilty to murder, it's definitely murder.
if he wasn't a cop and the same story played out, that person would already be on the road to life in prison. i've been watching the trial on youtube and the people chatting, a lot of them maintain that chauvin is innocent. I mean seriously. just because he's a cop, and George Floyd was large, black, and claustrophobic, it makes it okay that he murdered him?!
I mean fuck. it's murder.
Mad_Machine76
(24,412 posts)but he didn't seem to care if he did. And he certainly didn't fear any legal consequences if he did based on what have publicly seen over and over again in recent history. I sincerely hope that he is proven wrong and that we- as a society- have finally had enough with cops being allowed to discriminately use extreme tactics and violence against POC in situations that in no way, shape, or form required the use of violence, let alone the death of the suspect.
Stuart G
(38,420 posts)......there would be ...."No Fall Out, No Pay Back, No Consequences...None At All.."
That is what this awful event is about...(In my mind)....If this cop were sure that there would be
any consequences....(like this trial)...he would have not killed him....He would have let him live
and be taken to the hospital...But once he got started, I believe that he wanted to kill him, and
he was sure that he could get away with it....(that is my belief...as well..as a whole lot of others too)
Mad_Machine76
(24,412 posts)Quixote1818
(28,930 posts)like he is enjoying it.
Stuart G
(38,420 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)...as bouncers at the same nightclub? Apparently they didn't like each other, so did Chauvin have a "motive"?
orleans
(34,051 posts)i keep waiting for that to be brought up as some sort of revenge motive
Ocelot II
(115,681 posts)of Chauvin's state of mind, I assume they'll call witnesses who can testify that Chauvin and Floyd knew each other and didn't get along. If they don't, we can probably infer that they think the facts speak for themselves so they don't have to prove he had a particular motive for treating Floyd the way he did.
triron
(21,999 posts)BadGimp
(4,015 posts)It has to do with the counterfeit money ring that George Floyd and some of the local cops were involved in.
I have NO evidence, no proof. I'm just speculating.
This was a hit imo.
Raine
(30,540 posts)Dreampuff
(778 posts)And Chauvin had it in for him. Even that employer said that Chauvin always called for backup and was nastier when black people were involved in causing trouble there.
The prosecution team has a very impressive group of experts and Witnesses. But why are we wasting our time and spending taxpayer dollars on this? If they believe the defense, who says his death was caused by underlying health conditions along with drugs, Chauvin should be more than willing to lie in that same spot and have someone with the same body weight on top of him for 9 minutes and 29 seconds. Reenact the whole thing with digging his knee deeper into his neck, having others sit on his back and legs, Etc. Be sure he is handcuffed. If his attorney or the other 12 attorneys in the background who are being paid by a police organization truly feel that he is not guilty, they can lie right next to him under those same conditions.
If they all survive, then Chauvin is not guilty. If they don't survive, Justice is served.
Luciferous
(6,078 posts)for George Floyd for some reason.
Kahuna
(27,311 posts)so he doubled down to show them who's boss. It may have just been a matter of pride. If so, pride really does go before the fall. Idiot.
Texin
(2,596 posts)It's always seemed that way because the video evidence was so shockingly obvious. His nonchalance was eerie. Tobin's testimony yesterday was so utterly damning that should be the end of the matter. Of course, now we probably get to be fed the so-called defense's presentation for the next week.
Martin68
(22,794 posts)authority and power on Floyd. That not only does not excuse his action, it makes it worse.
Snackshack
(2,541 posts)...that he wanted to kill Mr. Floyd just off what I have read on the internet and seen broadcast. I dont believe he went into that situation wanting to kill Mr. Floyd. I do believe he wanted to cause as much pain/discomfort and exercise dominance over Mr. Floyd while he had the cover of making an arrest and tragically Mr. Floyd died.
I hope Mr. Chauvin is found guilty of the 2nd degree unintentional felony murder and sentenced to the full 40yrs in prison (he should have been charged with 2nd degree murder IMO) not the 2 lesser charges of 3rd degree depraved mind murder and the 2nd degree manslaughter. My guess is it will unfortunately be the 2nd degree manslaughter with a prison term of 5-7yrs.
RobinA
(9,888 posts)While he certainly didn't do much to make sure Floyd wasn't injured, I very much doubt that he set out to kill him. I'm more likely to go with testosterone poisoning, rage, lack of self-control, and pure lack of understanding of how damn easy it can be to kill someone under certain circumstances.