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Sun Apr 11, 2021, 11:25 AM

"Who's going to pay for it?"

53 replies, 7339 views

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Reply "Who's going to pay for it?" (Original post)
kpete Apr 11 OP
CrispyQ Apr 11 #1
malaise Apr 11 #44
Amishman Apr 11 #2
Moostache Apr 11 #4
area51 Apr 11 #8
Amishman Apr 11 #10
questionseverything Apr 11 #33
CrackityJones75 Apr 11 #38
Lancero Apr 12 #46
Amishman Apr 12 #47
Lancero Apr 12 #48
Amishman Apr 12 #49
Lancero Apr 12 #53
Jose Garcia Apr 11 #31
CrackityJones75 Apr 11 #40
TxGuitar Apr 12 #51
DENVERPOPS Apr 11 #9
lookyhereyou Apr 11 #30
DENVERPOPS Apr 11 #32
smirkymonkey Apr 11 #39
Cerridwen Apr 11 #13
Amishman Apr 11 #17
madeup64 Apr 11 #19
Amishman Apr 11 #29
KT2000 Apr 11 #27
Iggo Apr 11 #20
paleotn Apr 11 #25
JusticeForAll Apr 12 #45
Progressive dog Apr 12 #50
Irish_Dem Apr 11 #3
Generic Brad Apr 11 #5
WestofDenver Apr 11 #6
summer_in_TX Apr 11 #18
Traildogbob Apr 11 #7
DENVERPOPS Apr 11 #11
DENVERPOPS Apr 11 #34
Traildogbob Apr 11 #37
Tommymac Apr 11 #12
DeeDeeNY Apr 11 #14
Mr. Ected Apr 11 #15
Stuart G Apr 11 #16
Justice matters. Apr 11 #21
Roc2020 Apr 11 #22
paleotn Apr 11 #24
paleotn Apr 11 #23
GETPLANING Apr 11 #26
Upthevibe Apr 11 #28
kpete Apr 11 #41
kpete Apr 11 #42
ancianita Apr 11 #35
Mosby Apr 11 #36
BobTheSubgenius Apr 11 #43
TxGuitar Apr 12 #52

Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 11:28 AM

1. Everything for profit.

Every. Fucking. Thing.

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #1)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 09:19 PM

44. We are dispensable peons

They don't give a flying fuck

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 11:56 AM

2. So tired of overuse of 'failed state'. Bullshit.

Anyone who is calling the US a failed state needs to look up what that actually means. Here's a hint, it's nothing like the US.

We have a functional but imperfect state.

Yemen is a failed state. Syria is a failed state. If someone can't tell the difference between the US and Yemen, there is no point talking with them.

Our healthcare system is badly flawed from a financial perspective and very unequal, but also not failed either. You can get treatment,the services are available. Hospitals are not refusing normal lifesaving care due to inability to pay.

A failed state or system is not fixable and does not work at all. We have major flaws in both our government and healthcare system, but it absolutely is fixable

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Response to Amishman (Reply #2)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 12:18 PM

4. You are passionately wrong here...

IF an individual is forced to avoid seeking care when symptoms of a problem - a pain or pinching sensation, a rash or discolored skin, a headache that seems to recur and cannot be relieved without major use of Ibuprofen or Tylenol - that is NOT healthcare access.

What we have in this shithole country (which is AN ENTIRELY APT COMPARISON) is a death-elongation system. We do not engage in proactive prevention to nearly the extent that other nations do. We go through extreme lengths to keep people alive for an extra 8 to 48 hours in many cases at catastrophic costs, yet we cannot get people into routine doctor's visits.

We have a death care culture and you make the point very clearly:

You can get treatment, the services are available. Hospitals are not refusing normal lifesaving care due to inability to pay.


Emergency services?
Yes!

Available to all?
If you can get there...

Actual "healthcare"?
Not so much...

They are NOT doing cancer screening colonoscopies in the ER...
They are NOT doing mammograms in the ER...
They are NOT doing echocardiograms in the ER...unless you are having a heart attack presently...

The access to emergency care is not in dispute, but access to emergency services is nowhere close to access to healthcare - it is death prevention and it is done on a heroic scale by the people providing care. It is also massively expensive, inefficient and kills off poor people at an accelerated rate that remains hidden from full view to most of the public.

We are a shithole country for certain...failed state is not here yet; but you can see it coming soon, if real change is not made to change the course of the ship of state...

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Response to Moostache (Reply #4)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 12:39 PM

8. Bravo.

We need healthcare as a basic right. If we can't even get this far with a pandemic, we never will.

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Response to Moostache (Reply #4)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 12:49 PM

10. I can agree with most of that, but it still means we are close to a failed healthcare system

Not close to a failed state.

The viability of a nation goes far beyond healthcare.

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Response to Amishman (Reply #10)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 07:07 PM

33. Only if you are healthy and well off

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Response to Amishman (Reply #10)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 08:27 PM

38. Really?

Our election system is under constant attack. Our representation is completely out of whack. Our Education is fast going down the toilet. Our police and military are filled with nationalists and white supremacists. Our middle class is bearing the burden that they shouldn’t have to. The rights if women are always under attack.

Shit is in major disarray if it isn’t failed it is failing and we as a people are arguing about whether or not things are fine

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Response to Amishman (Reply #10)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 07:19 AM

46. Just for the hell of it, I decided to look up the criteria for a failed state. Lets see how many...

Of them apply to the US, shall we?

Social

Mounting demographic pressures and tribal, ethnic and/or religious conflicts - The US has a extremely racist history, and even today minorities struggle with racism in their daily lives. This affects a lot of things - Such as their treatment by police, medical outcomes, how much they're paid when compared to their white counterparts. And that's even before accounting for all the 'white genocide' groups that preach loudly about how equality is tantamount to oppression. Many of which groups label themselves as militias... And wouldn't ya know, the FBI consider these to be terror threats. We might not be seeing war on the streets, but it's certainly becoming a powerkeg. Considering everything, this box is certainly checked.

Massive internal and external displacement of refugees, creating severe humanitarian emergencies - I'm assuming that this applies to people within our nation, rather than the treatment people seeking refuge here at the boarder experience. We don't see significant displacement of our own people, so... I'd say it doesn't apply, but I'll admit that I might be misunderstanding this criteria.

Widespread vengeance-seeking group grievances - January 6th, and the entire Qanon movement. See also right/white-ring groups under demographic pressures.

Chronic and sustained emigration - We're still net positive in regards to migration, although that number has drastically fallen since the 90's. Maybe it's a sign of improving conditions elsewhere, creating less of a desire to migrate to the US. Maybe it's a sign that we've lost a lot of our allure. Still though, this doesn't apply.

Economic

Widespread corruption - Honestly, I don't think we suffer from corruption in general. We have issues yes, but those more-so fall under other labels.

High economic inequality - Oh boy, here is one that certainly applies considering just how much money the billionaire class made during the pandemic, while millions of people lost their jobs. And this is just general economic inequality, we're not even getting into racial and gender disparities.

Uneven economic development along group lines - And yep, here we are. We've got gender paygaps, and racial paygaps. A lack of money in their pockets, along side lack of opportunity to make money.

Severe economic decline - As much as I want to argue against a general decline, it's hard to when considering how far worker wages have fallen when compared against historical pay factored for inflation. It seems to be more inequality than actual decline, but well... Stagnant (At best!) pay, ever increasing living costs... I'd say that leads to a declining economic situation for the average worker.

Political (Oh god, is THIS one is going to be interesting...)

Delegitimization of the state - See the QAnon movement, and other Republican aligned groups. Conspiracy theories abound between them about how Trump is the 'actual' president, and that the military is going to force Biden out of his office any day now once the stars align and the pigs fly. Hell, even Democrats scratched the surface of this when Trump won - In our case though, we still had faith in the system as a whole even if we lacked it in certain parts, but many Republican leaning groups think that we haven't had a properly elected President for decades now.

Deterioration of public services - A public service, for the public good. Many nations consider healthcare to be a public service, so by that merit your admission that we're close to a failed healthcare system is enough to meet this criteria.

Suspension or arbitrary application of law; widespread human rights abuses - Yeah, uh... The shit that minorities experience at the hands of the police more than checks this box.

Security forces operating as a "state within a state" often with impunity - Basically, the 'Deep State'. Republican aligned groups believe in such, and that belief by itself is enough to cause instability.

Rise of factionalized elites - Ok, so, I had to find a definition for this one. Ready for it? Basically, its a splintering of a nation into political groups that promote rhetoric and actions that are harmful to the country. So... Yeah. Pure Red states, pure blue states... Our nation certainly has that political division, and for the Red states... Well, see QAnon.

Intervention of external political agents and foreign states - I really, really, don't like that this is considered a criteria. Given how interconnected the world is these days, no shit foreign states and their agents are going to have a interest in who wins elections. But, still, this applies as much as it feels like a freebie.

So of 14 criteria for a failed state... 11 of them apply.

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Response to Lancero (Reply #46)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 08:29 AM

47. Uh no.

Where did you get that list?

I started a point by point rebuttal, but stopped as those criteria are silly and not indicative of a failed state. Plus you are applying a perfectionist lens to it. Such as your take on 'Suspension or arbitrary application of law; widespread human rights abuses'. Leave the developed world and spend a little time in the more unstable parts of Africa or the middle east, then compare to the treatment of minorities here. Yes we have problems, and yes they are getting worse - but we are maybe 1% of the way to the treatment of women and minorities in an actual failed state.

Lets look at some actual definitions of a failed state.

Oxford dictionary definition:

a state whose political or economic system has become so weak that the government is no longer in control.

Yeah, not remotely there.

The Fund for Peace characterizes a failed state as having the following characteristics:

○ Loss of control of its territory, or of the monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force therein
○ Erosion of legitimate authority to make collective decisions
○ Inability to provide public services
○ Inability to interact with other states as a full member of the international community

Not close to meeting a single one of those either. Disagree? Compare to countries that actually are considered failed states: Yemen, Somalia, South Sudan.

In their Fragile States assessment (formerly Failed States Index), the US is rank 149 out of 178 countries for instability. Not only is the US not a failed state, we are one of the most stable when an objective statistical model is applied.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Fragile_States_Index

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Response to Amishman (Reply #47)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 08:35 AM

48. 'Where'd you get that list?' you ask, before posting a link to where I got that list.

If you think my reasoning for why some of the criteria applies is incorrect, please do lay out way. I'd love to hear your reasons for why, say, racial and gender pay gaps aren't a problem. Oh, and how unequal treatment under the law (ie, arbitrary applications of the laws) isn't something that we suffer from either.

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Response to Lancero (Reply #48)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 08:43 AM

49. I edited with an example as you were replying but I'll expand a little more.

The short answer is scale. Your interpretation seems to be anything less than perfection is a failure.

The gender pay gap is largely closed when comparing equal work: https://www.payscale.com/data/gender-pay-gap#:~:text=What%20is%20the%20gender%20pay,earned%20by%20an%20equivalent%20man.

Women earn 98% of what a man does for the same job. The remaining gap overall is due to an under representation of women in certain high paying industries. I work in software development and tech is still male dominated - especially highly paid specialty positions. This isn't due to discrimination, my past three employers have made it clear when we've been interviewing that when possible they would prefer to add diversity. There are not widespread active efforts to exclude women. At this point I think the biggest obstacle is cultural momentum and a hangover from prior generations where women really were discouraged from math and technology careers - the gender gap in my industry seems most pronounced among those in the 50's and 60's.

Cutting and pasting from my earlier edit for an answer on race:

Leave the developed world and spend a little time in the more unstable parts of Africa or the middle east, then compare to the treatment of minorities here. Yes we have problems, and yes they are getting worse - but we are maybe 1% of the way to the treatment of women and minorities in an actual failed state. Not to mention examples such as China's handling of ethnic minorities.

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Response to Amishman (Reply #49)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 03:49 PM

53. Notice, I said opportunity...

So thanks for proving my point on gender.

Anything for why racial paygaps, and police racism, aren't a issue our nation suffers from?

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Response to Moostache (Reply #4)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 06:49 PM

31. And yet hundreds of immigrants show up at our southern border every day

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Response to Jose Garcia (Reply #31)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 08:30 PM

40. That somehow excuses the state of things?

That people from terrible conditions are showing up at the door of the people that largely have created and contributed to those conditions point to the idea that we are good? We exploit the shit out if these people. We always have. That is the truth of this country. That we have amassed almost all the power and wealth of this country on the back of the oppressed and the exploitation around the globe.

Yeah we are great! Rah rah rah!

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Response to Moostache (Reply #4)


Response to Amishman (Reply #2)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 12:47 PM

9. Perhaps

this is just how a "failed state" begins??????

Is there a single person who believes that it wasn't Putin, via Trump driving to make the U.S. a failed state????

Trump and the entire Republican U.S. Senate were under Putin's control, and he was out to destroy the U.S. and democracy for the world to see...........

Regretfully, he still has a strong hold on the Republican politicians for some nefarious reason......

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Response to DENVERPOPS (Reply #9)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 05:48 PM

30. kompromat / compromised

he still has a strong hold on the Republican politicians for some nefarious reason......july 4th trip by a group of r's etc.

fighting infrastructure economic recovery etc . putin doesn't need
tRump or even marching orders ,the r's are tearing down the
constitution ,the country democracy,whatever they can get their
greedy hands on ... works for putin !

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Response to lookyhereyou (Reply #30)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 06:56 PM

32. Having watched

the overnight flip of Graham from a Trump hater to a Trump worshiper when Trump invited him for dinner and a golf game, I suspect it was something incredible that Putin sent Trump thru their back channel communication channel. Most probably an 8 x 10 color glossy?
Everyone already knew Graham was gay, it couldn't have been exposing that.....
Putin has been collecting Kompromat on every important person, every young politician for decades to use some time in the future for decades. He started on Trump in the 90's, and groomed him.

With all this crap being increasingly disclosed about the number of Republican Pedophiles, I wonder if Putin isn't holding incriminating evidence on a whole bunch of the Top Republicans relating to their involvement with under age child sex with either gender, to child ses trafficking...............Politicians take affairs being revealed about them in stride.....but knowing that anything with children would doom their fate in a heart beat......it sure makes me wonder.

And, isn't it interesting about all the migrant children (2000+ of them) that have been "disappeared" with no paper trails whatsoever?

Biden, if he really wants to rock the Republicans, should have his DOJ launch a huge investigation of what happened to them, almost ahead of all else, if he wants to truly taint these Republicans for their horrific actions these past five years.............There is no question that it would be much more than indespicable when the truth came out. If it wasn't something totally horrific, they wouldn't have worked so hard to not keep records, or destroy any and all paperwork on the children and where they are...........

There aren't words in the English language to describe the VULGARITY of those running the Republican Party, their Politicians, and their voters.

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Response to DENVERPOPS (Reply #32)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 08:29 PM

39. +1000

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Response to Amishman (Reply #2)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 12:59 PM

13. My late "not sister-in-law" was a rural letter carrier for the post office.

(back in the old days when we used the gender-neutral "letter carrier" rather than the gendered "mailman". I guess being "politically incorrect" was how all the "cool guys" moved back into the 1950s gendered words.)

My late "not sister-in-law" was a rural letter carrier for the post office. I lived with rather than married her brother; thank the lucky stars above!
When she was diagnosed with a particularly virulent form of cancer (4 year survival),

She was able to have some time off since she had accrued it and the letter carriers in her office donated leave time as they could.

She had to work to maintain her heath insurance so she could receive health care. 2009 She died in 2013 just shy of 4 years.

In 1982, my dad was diagnosed with cancer. He had good health insurance (relatively speaking) with the Teamsters. reagan fucked 'em over, hard, in the coming years. My dad took the initial treatment time off with help from the union and co-workers and then went to work between hospital stays. They had to remove a quarter of his lungs (1/4 of both together I think) so he would have times when he couldn't breathe.

Fortunately, the guys from work (maybe management, too?) helped cover his shifts so he could stay in the hospital. He worked 6-7 days a week, 10, 12 hours shifts sometimes 14. While being treated for cancer.

He died in 1989; just after his 7 year "cancer-free" check up and milestone. He worked until Dec 1988 and died Feb 1989.

Health CARE in this country kills blue collar workers (front-line, essential bullshit), the poor, the homeless, women, and people of color.

There's an old saying: "check your privilege."

We feminazis learned it in our Women's Studies classes; ask markos about Women's Studies classes.

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Response to Cerridwen (Reply #13)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 01:05 PM

17. Again. Troubled / flawed healthcare system does not equal failed state

Failed state has a specific meaning. Please compare what you are describing against the full collapse of all basic order and services of places like Syria, Yemen, and South Sudan.

Also in response to your bringing privileges into this privilege has nothing to do with this.

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Response to Amishman (Reply #17)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 01:30 PM

19. When you claim the US is a failed state

You are only helping to reinforce the idea there's nothing we can do about it or it's too big to do anything about it and it reinforces the notion that "Government can't do anything right."

When you are on the side of "government can do good if we commit to making it work good" (Dems/Liberals/Progressives) you certainly don't want to reinforce any narrative that make it easy for Republicans to continue to make Americans believe that government never does anything right when that is absolutely not the case.

It makes it harder for Democrats to make the arguments that we can fix the problems we have via government policy when there's this false belief that "Well it's already all f***** up and nothing we can do about it anyways," that pervades society. While it may seem trivial to call the US a failed State because of our atrocious healthcare system you only further the narrative that makes it harder for people to believe fact based arguments about fixing things via government intervention.

I'm assuming that is at least in part why Amishman is bringing this up.

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Response to madeup64 (Reply #19)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 04:14 PM

29. That's definitely part of it, plus despite our flaws I still have pride in this country

Despite our country's flaws, I still wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

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Response to Amishman (Reply #17)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 02:34 PM

27. Semantically speaking

You are correct in that respect but maybe failing state is a better phrase. It is not just the healthcare failure, but the increasing number of homeless encampments in our cities, lack any real mental health care, and the proliferation of weapons among the citizens, militarized police, and overt racism. Something has truly failed.

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Response to Amishman (Reply #2)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 01:37 PM

20. That's your takeaway from this?

People are dying and your quibbling over whether he should have said “failed state” or “failed system”?

Jeezus, man.

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Response to Amishman (Reply #2)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 02:28 PM

25. Not failed per say....

just heartless and wicked.

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Response to Amishman (Reply #2)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 04:35 AM

45. Off-topic: We are closer to Yemen in at least another way.

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Response to Amishman (Reply #2)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 10:12 AM

50. I agree

The US is not a failed state, not even close.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 12:01 PM

3. When I fell and broke my leg and ankle, I drove myself to the ER.

I was afraid of a huge ambulance bill.

And yes, I almost fainted as I drove myself to the ER, the pain was so bad and I was in shock.
In hindsight, pretty stupid of me.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 12:21 PM

5. I believe we're paying for it already

And it is costing us way more than it should as a result.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 12:22 PM

6. Same here; though not as distressing

I used to draw blood in hospital setting. One time I entered room, lone elderly female patient, nothing in room but her tucked into bed. As I prepared, with my usual 'banter' she suddenly said "I don't know how I'm going to pay for this". I almost started crying. How can people heal under this kind of duress!?

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Response to WestofDenver (Reply #6)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 01:12 PM

18. Heartbreaking!

K n R

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 12:37 PM

7. Heartbreaking greed

This same question happens to so many. Many have to chose, get care or die.
My best friend and soul mate, a 10 year old black lab was diagnosed with high protein in urine. A possible kidney destroying issue. $140 dollars for urine tests. Then meds for her are $270 a month. Vet tried to apply Good R/X coupon to get it down to $35 dollars. Pharmacy said it only applies to humans.
I asked, am I just supposed to let her die? They did not care.
Impossible that Med costs that much to make.
I can not imagine someone having to decide to save a loved on, human, or let them just deal because of cost.
Sure doesn’t seem very Christian, or Great again. How many Humans don’t even know about Good R/X discounts and go without life saving meds? Why are those savings not just the cost to all.
Conservative Christian GQP pro life greed.
Hard to believe I served this country, willing to die for its greatness.

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Response to Traildogbob (Reply #7)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 12:50 PM

11. I find it

hard to believe there is such a huge percentage who could care less for anyone except themselves.
And not only that, but are hell bent on destroying the rest of the population.

WTF

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Response to Traildogbob (Reply #7)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 07:14 PM

34. I empathize with you................

First, let me say, thank you for defending our country and our people.

Countless pet owners have had to face the choice, especially these past years of paying for Rx's they couldn't afford, or putting their beloved member of the family down..................

It isn't just pets, it is humans also.....My wife, who has the best insurance available for medications, pays around 100.00 dollars A DAY for a single pill to keep her cancer at a standstill for some unknown period of time.

Welcome to the United Corporations of America, for which the Republicans stand..............

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Response to DENVERPOPS (Reply #34)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 08:18 PM

37. Damn, so sorry

My daughter and I lost her mom to cancer 21 years ago, and this past Christmas we had to put her little 9 year old pit down with cancer around its heart. It really broke her heart with another loss to that horrible disease. I really want to send my best wishes to you both. $100 a day is outrageous. Proud to have served for good people such as you guys.
My most heart felt good wishes to you.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 12:59 PM

12. Death by Spreadsheet.

Been that way ever since Edgar Kaiser got Nixon's ear and introduced this vile system into our society.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 01:00 PM

14. Michael Moore's movie Sicko explains it all

The movie is as apt today as when he made it.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 01:00 PM

15. Our penal system, our press, our health care system

All of them exist these days 'for profit'.

The word capitalism does not appear in the Constitution.

Unchecked capitalism renders the Constitution an exercise in wishful thinking.

We must divorce or at least mitigate the nexus between our most fundamental democratic institutions from the inherent distortions visited upon them by unbridled capitalism.

By the way, I believe the Republican Party should rename itself the Capitalism Party because it stands for nothing but the concept of limitless capitalism.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 01:04 PM

16. I think this is going to change ....Joe Biden & The Democrates Will Make It Change...

.....Joe has seen the other side of life & he cares about people in a special way. This problem, about
people paying for ..."Health Care" will be addressed soon...Joe cares and, I do not know it, but my
guess is that this problem will be one of Joe's top priorities.. In the U.S.A. we as a people should not
have our last words be, "Who is going to pay for it?"

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 02:00 PM

21. There's a "new" Billionaire every 17 minutes...

NOBODY needs a BILLION to live a good life for 100 years, let alone 50 or more from adulthood.


NO BO DY


Tax the sh*t out of them.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 02:01 PM

22. The U.S is not even close to a fail state.

America is a country where money is god and EVERYTHING is for sale. And if you can't buy then drop dead you're worthless.

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Response to Roc2020 (Reply #22)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 02:26 PM

24. Sounds like Somalia.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 02:25 PM

23. Cue the mass bankruptcies...

from pandemic medical charges. Where you may ask? Only in the good ole US of A.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 02:29 PM

26. We are more like a 2nd or 3rd World country, but not a failed state.

1st World countries guarantee their citizens free access to healthcare, education, and at least affordable access to transportation and technology. The United States does not. These things are behind paywalls in what could be called a "tollbooth economy."
1st world countries have better educated people, fewer people in prison, and a high quality of life, vs. the high standard of living we boast about in the States. And their taxes aren't really that much higher than ours.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 02:45 PM

28. kpete.....

I don't know the actual definition of what a "failed state" is.

Having said that, my thoughts are that unless the Biden Administration can turn the ship around, we may be doomed. That's why getting HR 1 and HR 4 passed must happen.

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Response to Upthevibe (Reply #28)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 08:37 PM

41. I like the term "shit hole" country better than "failed state"

Just looking around at our crumbling infrastructure - it's literally crumbling

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 07:49 PM

35. Americans already, every damn year, pay $7.8 TRILLION in taxes. They just don't get any of it back.

If Americans actually knew that, they should all know that "who's gonna pay for it" has always been the Big Lie, because America has always been able to afford who and what it wants to afford.

Joe knows this. He's spending out taxes back on us, odious debt be damned.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 07:50 PM

36. Derrick Smith is a nurse, not a doctor.

Seems like an odd mistake.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 09:17 PM

43. If anything, I think it is a "failING" state, not one that has already failed.

And, while a complete disgrace, health care is an indicator, not a driver of failing. The downhill slide of democratic norms and ideals provides far, FAR more impetus towards an "F," and there is no debate about whether there are powerful forces - maybe so powerful they can't be stopped, in the short term - collapsing the reach and availability of the basic mechanics of democracy.

The massive greed and indifference to the human cost in the (ostensible) health system is a very pointed indicator of the power of money taking over every aspect of modern life. If not "health care," or the actual workings of democracy, what is there to care about enough to try to keep the profit motive from ruining it? There is nothing more important to a country's soul than those two things. Is this all fixable? Almost certainly, at least in the realm of the possible...the hypothetical. It's not a given, though, not by a mile and a day.

The Economist publishes a ranking of democracies every year, and once again, rated the US as a "flawed democracy," apparently taking a dim view of the politicization of almost everything. Now, there are almost 200 countries in the world, so coming in at #25 is far from a catastrophe, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that your average hyperpatriot (the kind that few here would deem a "REAL" patriot) would say that the US is the strongest and bestest democracy in the world. The people for whom "We're Number One" is literally a phrase they live by.

24 countries beg to differ. Just because 25 is not a catastrophe, it doesn't follow that it's a great ranking, either. Not for the Shining City On The Hill.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 10:28 AM

52. The Hospital: Life, Death, and Dollars in a Small American Town

By Brian Alexander. (Post by Mrs TXGuitar- Recently retired RN after 40 years- last 10 spent as Medicaid community case manager)

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