It seems to me there should be pressure brought to bear on those who refuse a vaccination

[Stinky The Clown]

If life were fair, they should suffer the consequences on their own. But life is not fair and all of us can be affected by their moronic refusal. In a fair world, they would be ordered to get it. In our imperfect world, they cannot be.

We can, however, make their decision uncomfortable for them.

How about a few of these consequences:

No in-person school for the children of unvaccinated parents

No admittance to businesses that are open except during special designated times

Make it legal for insurers to charge higher premiums for certain policies based solely on vaccination status

Issue vaccination credentials and prohibit those without them from participation in many activities, including public transportation, airlines, hotels, restaurants, cruise ships, etc., etc.

I'm sure a loooong list can be compiled.

[DBoon]

2. I would not do business with any place that did NOT restrict unvaccinated

Why risk my health when a competitor would actually care about the health of their customers?

We don't allow smoking due to the effect of second hand smoke while Covid is contagious and much more immediately lethal.

Stigmatizing behavior dangerous to others is one mechanism society uses to protect its members.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

3. Meh.

[cally]

4. I disagree

I am now fully vaccinated and am thrilled but I still agree with folks wondering if these vaccines are safe long term. It is a new technology and we have no results of the long term effects of the mRNA vaccines. And yes, I have followed the science news but I do honor those who have questions and want more data.

On edit: The FDA did not unanimously vote for emergency authorization for Pfizer. (The one I received) Some of the panel had concerns and wanted more data.

[RKP5637]

13. My guess is, but I know nothing, there will be booster shots of some type needed as time goes on!n/t

[torius]

17. The J&J vaccine is not mRNA

and at least where I am, you can in many cases see which vaccine is being given where and also choose on the national vaccinefinder site. So it's possible to avoid the mRNA ones.

[cally]

38. True

I’ve been encouraging those vaccine hesitant folks in my life to get that one. I hope all get the vaccine but I do understand concerns

[Ms. Toad]

18. Agree and disagree -

I agree that individuals could reasonably decide there is not enough information about long term consequences of this brand new vaccine technology. That question concerns me - BUT - my personal balancing is that this disease is too deadly and too unpredictable for the lack of information about long-term consequences to keep me from getting vaccinated.

BUT - I disagree that there should not be social consequences for that choice. I believe that people who are not vaccinated shoould be required to wear a mask in public until such time as they are vaccinated - or the vaccination rate in the county (or some other geographical designator) reaches the level at which there is herd immunity, as a matter of public health.

If you are not going to protect others from this deadly pandemic by being vaccinated, you should be mandated to take other steps to protect others. That will also weed out individuals who don't have a reasoned medical decision, but just don't feel like getting vaccinated.

[GopherGal]

31. Lack of Information Goes Both Ways

We haven't had enough time to see if there are long-term side effects of the vaccine, but we also haven't had enough time to see the long-term effects of the disease. Most especially, what are the long-term effects of those mild/asymptomatic cases, particularly in younger people?

It's not physically possible for us to know the answers to these questions because the virus hasn't been prevalent long enough for us to have followed its time-course that far. With a novel virus, some decisions must be made with incomplete information.

[cally]

39. Yes

This whole pandemic has seen all of us make different risk assessments. I see many my age do things I would NEVER do but I have heard from some friends that I’m wrong for being so cautious. It’s stressful to make decisions with incomplete info on virus and vaccine

[Pobeka]

5. Health insurers can charge more for smokers now.

The cost of multiple weeks in the hospital is staggering, which will happen to a percentage of those who don't get vaccinated. Refusal to get vaccinated should automatically mean higher health premiums, no matter if private or thru medicare.

I have no desire to go into a restaurant who allows non vaccinated folks (unless they have a real medical waver). Absolutely don't want to be on an airplane with them.

You're right, if they don't want to be vaccinated, they should bear the cost to society for their refusal to do so. The cost of a vaccine resistant mutation arising from this group of risk takers has got to be close to a trillion dollars.

[marie999]

20. Not until the FDA approves the vaccines.

[TreasonousBastard]

6. I would agree, except that these vaccines now only have emergency approval, and long term...

effects are still unknown.

Having said that, I got my shots and think pretty much anyone refusing is an asshole. This stuff isn't Thalidomide and the chemistry is pretty solid.

Ya just don't really know, though...

(If someone refuses both the vaccine and the mask, though, all bets are off and an ass-kicking should result)

[RKP5637]

14. I get my second one this week, and I am happy about that. It was extremely well

organized here.

[Ms. Toad]

19. But no one thought that Thalidomide was thalidomide at the time,

when tens of thousands of women took it. Or that annual X-rays (which my mother had as part of her childhood well-child visits) would create an increased risk of breast cancer - she's had two different kinds of breast cancer. So I don't think anyone is an asshole for deciding not to get vaccinated.

But you're right as to the mask - anyone who chooses not to be vaccinated, has a public health obligation to continue to mask.

[Kath2]

7. Right on!

[lagomorph777]

43. There will be evolutionary pressure.

So there's that.

[msongs]

8. and how, exactly, are non-vaxxd people to be identified in public places? nt

[Effete Snob]

11. Microchip detectors!

[Voltaire2]

42. damnit that was my line.

you owe me one snarky quip.

[PortTack]

9. The RWNJ have businesses that say they don't want ppl in their places with masks

We should be able to do the same.

[Effete Snob]

10. How about incentives instead?

Not everything needs to be punitive.

People do love to throw things at those in the stocks at the public square, though.

[bluestarone]

21. Welcome here!

I agree. I think money talks. Not sure how, but BIG DISCOUNTS at travel industries and some Shopping malls, restaurants,and wherever else it could be accomplished!! I would like to see the vaccine info be sent to drivers license centers in each state to be shown on your drivers license. (so hippa isn't involved, it has to be requested by the person involved)!

[Effete Snob]

24. I got a 10% grocery discount coupon

For getting it at a grocery-affiliated pharmacy.

[bluestarone]

29. That's a good start BUT

I'm thinking something like 50% off airfare (maybe even free airfare one time) It has to be HUGE. It could solve a major problem. I really feel it would be worth it, if done right!

[Effete Snob]

30. Oxycontin vouchers!

Even if you don’t take ‘em, you can trade them for cash, goods or services from people who do!

Put Donald Trump’s picture on it, and it will be like currency in Hooterville.

Bigger than Bitcoin. Elon Musk will BUY THE MOON with it.

[roamer65]

12. Insurers should be allowed to definitely charge MUCH higher rates for anti-vaxxers.

They should also be kept out of many indoor group activities.

[RKP5637]

15. I think that makes sense! At least higher insurance rates. n/t

[roamer65]

25. That's my thought.

Off load the extra cost right back on them. You should have to provide proof of vaccination in order to get the lower rates.

[MichMan]

16. Order the National Guard to go door to door and hold people down while they get vaccinated

I'm afraid somebody posting here will think this is a good idea.

[roamer65]

26. If it gets bad enough, I just may be onboard.

At a certain point, it will be solidly a public health issue.

But we aren’t there....yet.

[marie999]

22. I do not think that people who do not trust the vaccines until the FDA approves them,

should have to pay more for insurance. The anthrax vaccine given to service men and women was not FDA approved and caused medical problems. No one should be penalized for refusing the vaccines until the FDA approves them. Everyone should wear a mask whether or not they have been vaccinated.

[Lars39]

23. The FDA should be fast tracking the vaccines for approval.

Once they are approved, the military and hospitals, etc., can make Covid-19 vaccinations mandatory for a whole lotta people.

[MFM008]

27. now I had the first Moderna in Feb

But I had so many issues come up after I got it with heart and head (mental)
that I have opted out of the second vaccine shot.
Im just going to have to live with that and try to be careful .
Especially since information out of Israel today says the Pzier vaccine doesn't do great
against the South African variant.

[Meowmee]

28. I believe

It should be mandatory for all biz, gov institutions, organizations, hospitals etc. /schools/ unis and most other places for everyone except those with a VALID medical exception. As soon as it has regular authorization. In the mean time as many institutions as possible should make it mandatory since they have the right to do that.

People do not have the right to endanger others, if they are unwilling to be vaccinated for any other reason than a valid medical exception they should be restricted in what they can do at least until numbers are way down which hopefully will happen at some point. As for official institutions and employers etc., they should require it permanently imo. C19 is too, contagious, too deadly and it has longterm life destroying consequences for many who survive it.

[albacore]

32. I keep posting this... in the vain hope that people will understand...

... that government powers during pandemics are nearly unlimited. They include involuntary vaccination.

"From Heritage Institute …
"...States may also take more drastic measures, such as requiring citizens to be tested or vaccinated, even against their will. In Jacobson v. Massachusetts (1905), the Supreme Court considered a challenge to a state law requiring everyone to be vaccinated against smallpox. Henning Jacobson refused vaccination and was convicted. The court upheld the law and Jacobson’s conviction.
“The Constitution,” Justice John Marshall Harlan wrote for a 7-2 majority, “does not import an absolute right in each person to be, at all times and in all circumstances, wholly freed from restraint.” Instead, “a community has the right to protect itself against an epidemic.” Its members “may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be subjected to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the safety of the general public may demand.”
States also have the power, beyond criminal law enforcement, to make quarantine and isolation effective. If presented with widespread noncompliance, governors may call National Guard units to put their orders into force, to safeguard state property and infrastructure, and to maintain the peace. In some states, individuals who violate emergency orders can be detained without charge and held in isolation...."

Note... the Heritage Institute is very conservative.
https://www.heritage.org/the-constitution/commentary/constitutional-guide-emergency-powers?fbclid=IwAR3lBfsiVKa8QODeylueITT1u2e-PRmPXvqrkopQInNON3ylpDp675yTrhk

[albacore]

34. ....and...

"States have police power functions to protect the health, safety, and welfare of persons within their borders. To control the spread of disease within their borders, states have laws to enforce the use of isolation and quarantine.
These laws can vary from state to state and can be specific or broad. In some states, local health authorities implement state law. In most states, breaking a quarantine order is a criminal misdemeanor.
The Public Health Service Act of 1944 clearly established the federal government’s quarantine authority for the first time. The act gave the U.S. Public Health Service (PHS) responsibility for preventing the introduction, transmission, and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States."

"Police powers were reserved in the federal constitution for states’ use when needed for the preservation of the common good. When applied, they allow states to pass and enforce isolation and quarantine, health, and inspections laws to interrupt or prevent the spread of disease. See Medtronic, Inc. v. Lohr, 518 U.S. 470, 475 (1996) ("Throughout our history the several states have exercised their police powers to protect the health and safety of their citizens. Because these are primarily, and historically, matters of local concern, the states traditionally have had great latitude under their police powers to legislate as to the protection of the lives, limbs, health, comfort, and quiet of all persons."; Black’s Law Dictionary 1196 (Ernst Freund, The Police Power: Public Policy and Constitutional Rights iii, 3 (1904). The police power supports the authority of a state to enact and enforce “health laws of every description.” Jacobson, supra, 197 U.S. at 25."
https://www.ncsl.org/research/health/public-health-chart.aspx?fbclid=IwAR01W8TbsmrgLiOVOB4QyRYvmhT6UBGacmn1XuHaRfVevc7eQZANZZ2M9j0

[albacore]

35. ...and...

"The Public Health Service Act of 1944 clearly established the federal government’s quarantine authority for the first time. The act gave the U.S. Public Health Service (PHS) responsibility for preventing the introduction, transmission, and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States."

That takes care of foreign flights.

The FAA grounded ALL flights on 9/11. With 3,000 dead. We've got over 660,000 dead. The entire airspaces of the United States was closed by the FAA for 10 days.
Under the Commerce Clause, the federal government has broad authority to quarantine and impose other health measures to prevent the spread of diseases from foreign countries, as well as between states.

All it takes is an executive order. Let 'em take it to court.
I hadn't thought about limiting other interstate travel...but that sounds like something the Federal government could do... "Interstate" after all.

We have already lost more people than troops killed in all our wars since 1900... it may be time to take some serious measures!

[WarGamer]

33. yup... vaccine passports required to do many of the things people do...

[Zeitghost]

36. Maybe

Maybe we could just make them sew a big red A on their clothes?

[fifthoffive]

37. Cost of catching Covid

Government currently covers the cost of Covid-19 tests and vaccines.

The government does not cover treatment for Covid-19.

Insurance policies may or may not cover costs, and your mileage may vary. Check your insurer's website.

The state of emergency is scheduled to end on March 31. It will probably be extended. Once the state of emergency ends, the government probably will not cover the cost for tests and vaccines, and your insurer will be free to deny coverage.

Get the vaccine for free, or risk not just your life, which doesn't seem to move some folks, but also risk any money you have managed to save. Money may talk when threats of death don't for people who are in denial about the risks of Covid-19.

[Sympthsical]

40. Maybe slow that authoritarian roll there

Yeesh.

Even with vaccines, we should still mask and socially distance.

We've dealt with anti-vaxxers for decades. Now that it's Republicans, we need to re-order society?

People need to get a handle on this nonsense.

[Stinky The Clown]

41. Which vaccine did you get?