HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » He Tried To Get Away ...

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 09:05 AM

He Tried To Get Away ...

38 replies, 8755 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 38 replies Author Time Post
Reply He Tried To Get Away ... (Original post)
ItsjustMe Apr 12 OP
lark Apr 12 #1
Wounded Bear Apr 12 #6
lark Apr 12 #7
Permanut Apr 12 #21
Crunchy Frog Apr 12 #26
lark Apr 14 #38
soldierant Apr 12 #32
IrishAfricanAmerican Apr 12 #2
luckone Apr 12 #3
Duppers Apr 12 #8
crickets Apr 12 #22
uponit7771 Apr 12 #25
FakeNoose Apr 12 #4
njhoneybadger Apr 12 #5
Claire Oh Nette Apr 12 #27
rickyhall Apr 12 #9
mjvpi Apr 12 #17
kimbutgar Apr 12 #20
rickyhall Apr 12 #31
Jay25 Apr 12 #10
housecat Apr 12 #11
KS Toronado Apr 12 #12
wnylib Apr 13 #34
KS Toronado Apr 13 #36
wnylib Apr 13 #37
tiptonic Apr 12 #13
Jon King Apr 12 #15
Claire Oh Nette Apr 12 #28
mjvpi Apr 12 #18
RainCaster Apr 12 #14
mjvpi Apr 12 #19
BobTheSubgenius Apr 12 #16
nolabear Apr 12 #23
dianaredwing Apr 12 #24
Claire Oh Nette Apr 12 #30
maxsolomon Apr 12 #29
I_UndergroundPanther Apr 12 #33
RocRizzo55 Apr 13 #35

Response to ItsjustMe (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 09:07 AM

1. Our hiring of police officers must be upgraded.

They need to be subject to strong screening and anyone who is overly fearful/scornful of others of different races must be permanently screened out.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lark (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 09:43 AM

6. And training. Don't forget training...

American cops have far less training than most other 1st World nations. Hell, to be a small town sheriff no training is really required, you just need to be popular among your fellow rubes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #6)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 09:48 AM

7. Yes indeed, that absolutely must be included.

I really wish something could be done about the many police unions that promote white nationalism and racial hate.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lark (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 02:16 PM

21. This.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lark (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 03:47 PM

26. And accountability. They need to be able to deal with bad cops, effectively and openly.

In ways that are largely prevented by the police unions. There needs to be major union busting.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #26)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 08:24 AM

38. Yeah, qualified immunity is a concept whose time needs to come to an end.

Now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lark (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 08:28 PM

32. Exactly the point Glenn Kirschner made here



He pointed out if someone wants to be a cop because they want the authority to abuse people, you aren't going to train that out of them,

Readers Digest version is he suggests vetting on steroids, to be done with involvement from citizens who are going to be policed by the hires. But he says it much better.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ItsjustMe (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 09:11 AM

2. Also need a...

US Govt. national database of police officers, with records for any misconduct/abuse and flag system to prevent future employment.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to IrishAfricanAmerican (Reply #2)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 09:33 AM

3. ++Without some tracking the fired police are not off the streets just hired elsewhere

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to IrishAfricanAmerican (Reply #2)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 10:07 AM

8. Another ++

👍 Definitely.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to IrishAfricanAmerican (Reply #2)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 02:32 PM

22. This x 1000. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to IrishAfricanAmerican (Reply #2)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 03:39 PM

25. +1,

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ItsjustMe (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 09:39 AM

4. Only one problem - the cop is the one with the gun

Nobody is threatening the guy with the gun.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ItsjustMe (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 09:41 AM

5. Half of the people in this country have no functioning conscience

and most of them claim to be Christian.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to njhoneybadger (Reply #5)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:21 PM

27. cpincidence?

I think not...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ItsjustMe (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 10:10 AM

9. I miss Jack Webb

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rickyhall (Reply #9)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 11:41 AM

17. I miss Andy of Mayberry

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rickyhall (Reply #9)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 12:02 PM

20. And the cops on Adam 12

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kimbutgar (Reply #20)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 06:05 PM

31. Jack Webb created, wrote & directed Adam-12 & Dragnet

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ItsjustMe (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 10:45 AM

10. That's it in a nutshell.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ItsjustMe (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 10:46 AM

11. If a fish rots from the top, go to the top and see why they are hiring nazis

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ItsjustMe (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 11:09 AM

12. Could a nationwide policy of body-cams

for all law enforcement officers when dealing with the public lower the cases of cops being stupid?
Believe most would think twice knowing they're recording themselves.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KS Toronado (Reply #12)

Tue Apr 13, 2021, 04:42 AM

34. The cops who harrassed Lt. Nazario

with pepper spray and threats had their body cams on and recorded the whole incident.

Body cams don't stop cops if they know that their superiors will not discipline them. In the case of Nazario, they hoped to keep him quiet by threatening his military career if he spoke up. But it didn't work. As Nazario said in the video from the cam, he has a good rapport with his CO and planned on discussing it with him.

The cop who pepper sprayed him wasn't even fired until the video went viral, 4 months after the incident. If Nazario had not pursued it, nothing would have happened to the cops at all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wnylib (Reply #34)

Tue Apr 13, 2021, 11:31 AM

36. "had their body cams on and recorded the whole incident."

Kinda proves my point, without the recordings, cops literally get away with murder.
With them some get fired....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KS Toronado (Reply #36)

Tue Apr 13, 2021, 04:38 PM

37. Cam videos can be useful for prosecuting or suing

but only if: the victim survives and is not afraid to make a formal complaint, or the victim's family sues after the victim dies or is disabled. And there is still no assurrance that the cops will be convicted. There is a list of cops getting off despite videos from Rodney King onward.

The cams do not work as a deterrent, and that is the point I was making. A prosecution or civil lawsuit after the fact does not bring back the dead victim. It does not make life safer for people of color. In spite of cams or videos from security cameras or witnesses, cops still get away with murder if their superiors don't take action, if a DA fails to prosecute, or if a jury fails to convict.

So changes in how police are hired, trained, and disciplined are necessary. In some police forces, that means a complete overhaul.

The idea is to save lives more than to prosecute for deaths.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ItsjustMe (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 11:19 AM

13. What about

What about better pay? That would help.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tiptonic (Reply #13)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 11:37 AM

15. The pay is very good actually...

The pay and benefits package and ability to retire after 20 years is pretty much top notch compared to many careers. Contrary to mythology, most police work their entire careers and never face any real danger.

The problem is the hiring. Its mostly friends of friends and sons of friends. And the culture attracts people who want to be bullies rather than people who want to help.

The solution is what many countries have, mainly community based officers whose entire function is to mediate and de-escalate first and foremost. They have a separate unit trained for actual dangerous crime response and still another unit of investigators.

Our police system has only two of the three branches....we left out the officers trained in de-escalation first and foremost.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jon King (Reply #15)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:25 PM

28. THis

We've militarized our police with cast offs from the perpetual war in Iraq/Afghanistan.

In listening to the Brooklyn Center Police chief list the training his officers took, firearms, taser, target scenarios, not once was de-escalation mentioned.

They don't de escalate anymore. They view whoever they interact with as enemies. This is the problem. They're an occupying force for Black people already, and more and more for the rest of us.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tiptonic (Reply #13)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 11:45 AM

18. Much more and different training to justify that higher pay.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ItsjustMe (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 11:30 AM

14. Police unions must be held accountable for their members

Not the city government that hires them. It's the unions that insist a bad cop must be kept on the force. Let them pay for the insurance, and deal with the attorneys in court.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RainCaster (Reply #14)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 11:51 AM

19. Agreed. Unions should have standards, like in the building trades.

If you hire a union brick layer, you are buying a guaranteed quality.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ItsjustMe (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 11:39 AM

16. It's hard to use the word "standoff" when only one party is armoured and armed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BobTheSubgenius (Reply #16)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 02:33 PM

23. That's the point, right?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ItsjustMe (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 03:18 PM

24. This is way too big a problem to solve with a bandage, even a really big one

Law enforcement is not federal but state and regional. As we have seen with the voting rights problem, one size obviously does not fit all. I have read a lot of professional papers about these problems and it is mind boggling. We need for the whole country to find a moral center again but that seems rather unlikely with so many crazies out there. Therefore, all we can do is what everyone in this thread suggests, keep patching up the wounds, stopping the bleeding, and making small improvements in individual instances until other communities see that both cops and victims are members of a community and community policing usually works. It is a damn shame so many women, children, and other minorities must suffer and die simply because of a machismo theory of community control.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dianaredwing (Reply #24)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:31 PM

30. well said.

Toxic masculinity is at the heart of many ills in society.

Just as the common core content standards and common essential coverage for health insurance, a minimum training standard should elevate policing.

Bullies with guns who are no different from criminals are no better than good cops who are so fearful they can't act rationally.

If there were white people being killed like this, the police would have a case. The think blue line is the problem.

I'm all for unions. However, our military and national guard have codes of conduct without a union. Maybe because they've got firearms, police need a civilian leadership and governance. THe Police union has proven to have racist leanings. I don't think this is true of the Firefighters union, or the teachers union, or other civil service, government worker unions. The weaponry makes it different.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ItsjustMe (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:29 PM

29. Reinvent Policing.

Reimagine, Revise, Retrain...

I won't say "Defund" or "Abolish" because I know those words are a 3rd Rail on DU.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ItsjustMe (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 11:09 PM

33. Keep bullies out

Of policing and anywhere there are vulnerable people,marginalized people or suffering people.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ItsjustMe (Original post)

Tue Apr 13, 2021, 05:54 AM

35. #ACAB /nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread