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Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:16 PM

MN Governor: 'Stop Pretending' We Can't Do Anything to Stop This



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MN Gov. Calls for Police Reform Hearings After Daunte Wright Killing: ‘Stop Pretending’ We Can’t Do Anything to Stop This

MN Gov. Calls for Police Reform Hearings After Daunte Wright Killing: ‘Stop Pretending’ We Can’t Do...
Minnesota Governor Tim Walz spoke on the killing of Daunte Wright on Monday afternoon and called on the state legislature to hold hearings on police reform to prevent future tragedies.
mediaite.com
2:11 PM · Apr 12, 2021


https://www.mediaite.com/tv/mn-gov-calls-for-police-reform-hearings-after-daunte-wright-killing-stop-pretending-we-cant-do-anything-to-stop-this/


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Reply MN Governor: 'Stop Pretending' We Can't Do Anything to Stop This (Original post)
Nevilledog Apr 12 OP
WhiskeyGrinder Apr 12 #1
Phoenix61 Apr 12 #2
WhiskeyGrinder Apr 12 #4
Phoenix61 Apr 12 #5
WhiskeyGrinder Apr 12 #7
Phoenix61 Apr 12 #8
WhiskeyGrinder Apr 12 #10
Phoenix61 Apr 12 #11
WhiskeyGrinder Apr 12 #14
ShazzieB Apr 12 #18
WhiskeyGrinder Apr 12 #22
ShazzieB Apr 12 #25
WhiskeyGrinder Apr 12 #29
wnylib Apr 12 #27
WhiskeyGrinder Apr 12 #30
wnylib Apr 12 #34
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply .
WhiskeyGrinder Apr 12 #35
gldstwmn Apr 13 #41
Phoenix61 Apr 13 #43
TheRealNorth Apr 12 #9
WhiskeyGrinder Apr 12 #12
whathehell Apr 12 #19
WhiskeyGrinder Apr 12 #20
whathehell Apr 12 #24
WhiskeyGrinder Apr 12 #28
Stinky The Clown Apr 12 #3
WhiskeyGrinder Apr 12 #6
calimary Apr 13 #46
uponit7771 Apr 12 #15
Gore1FL Apr 12 #21
uponit7771 Apr 13 #40
calimary Apr 13 #48
intheflow Apr 13 #38
uponit7771 Apr 13 #39
gldstwmn Apr 13 #42
uponit7771 Apr 13 #44
calimary Apr 13 #47
Stinky The Clown Apr 12 #13
underpants Apr 12 #16
bucolic_frolic Apr 12 #17
Pepsidog Apr 12 #23
dflprincess Apr 12 #31
Pepsidog Apr 12 #36
wellst0nev0ter Apr 13 #45
IronLionZion Apr 13 #37
Evolve Dammit Apr 12 #26
AverageOldGuy Apr 12 #32
soldierant Apr 12 #33

Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:20 PM

1. The system is not reformable.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:25 PM

2. Systems change all the time.

The question is whether or not they have the wisdom to make the decisions that will result in systemic change. Then they have to act on those decisions. Not easy but definitely not impossible.

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Response to Phoenix61 (Reply #2)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:26 PM

4. When a system is built on white supremacy to uphold the white supremacy around it, abolition

is the better route than reform.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #4)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:29 PM

5. So we get rid of law enforcement? nt

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Response to Phoenix61 (Reply #5)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:31 PM

7. Yes.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:32 PM

8. And do what? nt

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Response to Phoenix61 (Reply #8)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:40 PM

10. About what?

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #10)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:44 PM

11. Seriously? You said we should get rid of law enforcement.

So no one is going to steal, kill, rape, abuse children or their spouses etc.

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Response to Phoenix61 (Reply #11)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:57 PM

14. Because law enforcement does little to deter those kind of crimes, we have to look at why they

happen. We get ahead of the problem and meet people's needs before they become violent. Why do people steal, kill, rape? If we spent cop money on those causes instead of the aftermath, we wouldn't need cops.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #14)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 06:36 PM

18. Okay, but

I agree that law enforcement does little to deter certain kinds of crimes. But getting rid of it entirely is not the answer. Which is just as well, because there's no way enough people would ever agree to support such a plan.

Lots of reform is needed, for law enforcement and the whole criminal justice system. The way cops are recruited and trained needs to change drastically. And yes, reallocation of some of the money now earmarked for policing is a good idea, But just eliminate law enforcement entirely? No way. Even IF people could somehow be talked into it (fat chance), the results would be chaos.

Ain't gonna happen, and wouldn't have the results you're proposing if it did.

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Response to ShazzieB (Reply #18)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 06:49 PM

22. "But getting rid of it entirely is not the answer."

Why not?

wouldn't have the results you're proposing if it did.
I disagree. People are generally pretty good at taking care of themselves and each other, especially when their needs are met.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #22)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 07:06 PM

25. If it isn't self evident why a country without any law enforcement would be a chaotic mess,

I really don't think anything I say would be convincing.

Have a nice day.

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Response to ShazzieB (Reply #25)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 07:56 PM

29. Law enforcement is not what keeps me from chaos.

Thanks for sticking with me, though.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #22)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 07:45 PM

27. Nonsense. Without some form of law enforcement,

the way people would take care of themselves and each other is through eye for an eye vengeance. This would lead to gang warfare type of "justice." It would be like having the Mafia in charge.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #27)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 07:58 PM

30. Is law enforcement's mission to provide vengeance? They certainly provide some form of gang-

warfare "justice." But for whom?

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #30)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 08:58 PM

34. Just the opposite. Part of their

responsibility is to prevent vengence, or vigilante type justice. That's why cops who have personal agendas on the job have to be removed from police forces.

Fortunately, as another poster said, society will never try out your utopian wish. But if you believe so strongly in it, why not try your own experiment with it? Recruit a group of people to create a small village. All ages and a variety of ethnicities, singles and families. Find a location to set yourseves up. Maybe you could pool together your funds or do a fund raiser to buy up a ranch or large farm where you can locate your village. There will be local jurisdictions, but you can all agree to not call law enforcement for anything. Set an example to the world of how it should be done.

It sounds to me like you could be either too naive to deal with the realities of human nature or just enjoy trolling people. Either way, there is no point in debating it. Have a nice day.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #34)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 10:02 PM

35. .

Part of their responsibility is to prevent vengence, or vigilante type justice.
Then why are they killing people over and over again? Over expired tabs, a counterfeit bill, loose cigarettes? Because cops provide vigilante justice for capital, not people.

But if you believe so strongly in it, why not try your own experiment with it?
I have. In the past couple years -- since I've learned about abolition -- in instances where I might have otherwise called the police, I've worked to find ways to not do so. It's not easy! But so far, it's worked for me.

It sounds to me like you could be either too naive to deal with the realities of human nature or just enjoy trolling people.
Sorry to hear I come across that way. I disagree about your assessment of human nature, though. As humans, we tend to empathize and want to help each other. "Survival of the fittest" for humans means survival of those who can collaborate and provide mutual aid to each other. As humans, we have to learn to hurt each other, and we hurt each other when our needs aren't met. If we can break the cycle of learning how to hurt, we can move toward a world without police.

Have a nice day.
And you as well.

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Response to Phoenix61 (Reply #11)

Tue Apr 13, 2021, 11:37 AM

41. The cops show up after those things happen.

They are not a deterrent.

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Response to gldstwmn (Reply #41)

Tue Apr 13, 2021, 11:53 AM

43. I've never said law enforcement was a deterrent.

Preventing crime is one thing. Dealing with those who commit it is another.
Take methadone. It would never be used as a preventative but it is an effective treatment.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:38 PM

9. We kind of saw what happens...

When the police are hiding in their cop shop because of the big bad protestors.

The criminal elements see it as a license to run amok and start plundering.

Not saying we shouldn't fire a bunch of the cops, but I think we still need law enforcement. Otherwise we are going to have even less-trained militias or security services patrolling our streets.

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Response to TheRealNorth (Reply #9)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:51 PM

12. Simply getting rid of the cops isn't how to build a world without cops.

It takes change across other systems to ensure we don't need cops.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 06:37 PM

19. Good luck with that.

No major society in the world exists without law enforcement -- None

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Response to whathehell (Reply #19)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 06:38 PM

20. Don't I know it.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #20)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 06:55 PM

24. ..Then why do you imagine that would change?

I get the need for a better society, but there's never been a
completely crime free society, and, there never will be. The spectre of violent crime, especially, necessitates law enforcement.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #24)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 07:49 PM

28. Because there are a lot of things we haven't tried that could work. We have to keep trying.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:26 PM

3. Keep your eye on Maryland where the legislature overrode a veto and made a great first . . . . .

. . . . . step. They ended to Police Officers Bill of Rights. That was a biggie. They also now require all agencies wear body cams.

Read about it here, from CNN:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/11/politics/maryland-police-reform-laws-override-veto/index.html

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Reply #3)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:31 PM

6. The only thing in that article I see directly attempting to end cop violence is the end of no-knock

warrants. That's a good one. But body cams (by 2025??) don't reduce cop violence. Nibbling around the edges.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #6)

Tue Apr 13, 2021, 02:27 PM

46. And it seems to be, with body cams, they have to be turned ON to do any good.

There should be some mechanism that thwarts an officer’s ability to “forget” to turn on his/her body cam.

We’ve seen this multiple times.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:57 PM

15. Yes it is, just do what the US military MPs do. Here's a list

1. End low level offense interactions with armed police officers, in this case the guy should've been allowed to go and just send out a warrant for him to be picked up. He wasn't an armed threat and their wasn't a history of violence in the warrant

2. Any officer that doesn't take the path of least escalation gets fired and exposed to the law, period. The rest of the world has to live up to path of least force in an instant in regards to ability to flee so should the police.

3. stop the policing of mostly black communities with mostly white PDs, at this point that's oppressive behavior historically and there are too many 88ers in too many PDs. Pay PoC officers a shit ton money to live and police communities they live in

4. Look at what the Military Police are doing and repeat it nationwide. We don't see unarmed shooting of PoC in military police for a reason and it's mostly because the respect the MPs have to give the community they're policing. The US military leadership is diverse enough where MPs can't just harass any PoC at will and have to watch their P's & Q's and follow training and rules.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #15)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 06:44 PM

21. I'd like to add a 5th point.

5> Stop using law enforcement as a fund generator. No budget should balance by relying on people breaking the law. Taxes need to fund society, not the proceeds of arbitrary police stops.

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Response to Gore1FL (Reply #21)

Tue Apr 13, 2021, 11:35 AM

40. Yep that should be against the law period. That's predatory

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Response to Gore1FL (Reply #21)

Tue Apr 13, 2021, 03:19 PM

48. This is another excellent idea.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #15)

Tue Apr 13, 2021, 10:33 AM

38. Best post I've seen on this subject because you have provided a working alterntive.

It's still not the full defund I'd like to see of PDs, but it's a start and would work very well with defunding efforts that would redistribute funds to social services (mental health, anti-poverty, demilitarized schools, etc.). Thank you.

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Response to intheflow (Reply #38)

Tue Apr 13, 2021, 11:35 AM

39. ..👍🏼

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #15)

Tue Apr 13, 2021, 11:41 AM

42. I saw on Twitter last night that the notice

for the Zoom hearing was sent to the wrong address and returned. Did he even know he missed his court date?

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Response to gldstwmn (Reply #42)

Tue Apr 13, 2021, 12:46 PM

44. +1,

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #15)

Tue Apr 13, 2021, 03:18 PM

47. VERY good ideas!

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:53 PM

13. Okay. Done.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 06:19 PM

16. The thin blue line and police unions.

The cops know who the “bad apples” are. They bide them or just move them elsewhere rather than getting rid of them. When they screw up it’s not public information even when taken to court. Cities and counties keep paying for repeated mistakes because they often can’t fix the problem.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 06:26 PM

17. Maybe if we paid them to stay home /nt

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 06:53 PM

23. I watch a lot of British detective cop shows and they always call out the "armed response teams" if

such a thing exists whenever they have a dangerous situation. Cops stopped, for the most part, high speed chases due to the danger involved. Since when does a kid running from a traffic stop warrant even a taser? I would love to know the statistics regarding use of weapons by cops and the justification for them.

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Response to Pepsidog (Reply #23)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 08:12 PM

31. The warrent was for a misdemeanor gun charge, not a traffic warrent

(carrying a pistol without a permit).

I can see where that might have made the officers a bit more cautious when they first approached him but, as you said, didn't mean they had to pull any weapon (taser or gun) when he tried to get away from them.

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Response to dflprincess (Reply #31)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 10:29 PM

36. Thanks for the correction.

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Response to dflprincess (Reply #31)

Tue Apr 13, 2021, 02:10 PM

45. Makes me wonder how the cops handled the original gun charge

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Response to Pepsidog (Reply #23)

Tue Apr 13, 2021, 10:20 AM

37. More Americans have guns than the British

Americans cops assume everyone is trying to kill them. It's a crazy way to live. Plus a certain type of person wants to be an American cop. It isn't always about service or safety. Sometimes it's because they want power and authority.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 07:35 PM

26. Good discussion. I think the US being AWASH with weapons changes the whole picture. Add

disinformation, Faux News, Limbaugh brainwashing for decades and you have millions of white people convinced they are victims and need to make a stand before it is too late. It is tragic really.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 08:12 PM

32. Calls for "police reform" will have as much impact as . . .

. . . calls for gun legislation after a school shooting.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 08:16 PM

33. Glenn Kirschner, on his "Justice Matters" podcast,

spoke on this subject yesterday, and it left quite an impression on me. It wasn't Daunte but Lt. Nazario in Virginia whose incident hit him so hard.

He is so calm and rational - I don't think I have ever seen him this passionate (and he admitted his blood was boiling.)

And I agree with his proposals - for what that's worth.

It's only eleven minutes - not a huge chunk out of one's day.

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