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joetheman

(1,450 posts)
Fri Apr 16, 2021, 11:52 AM Apr 2021

Biden must come out today and request a ban on assault weapons. Put the GOP and gun huggers

in the spotlight. There must be a vote on this. Win lose or draw, all the cards should be on the table. The anti-maskers and anti-gun control are mostly the same people. They don't care who dies and are helping to kill us all.

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Biden must come out today and request a ban on assault weapons. Put the GOP and gun huggers (Original Post) joetheman Apr 2021 OP
Hasn't he already done that? comradebillyboy Apr 2021 #1
It would never reach a vote because... filibuster WarGamer Apr 2021 #2
I'm not even sure there are 50 votes in the Senate for that. Calista241 Apr 2021 #4
Agreed, 100% WarGamer Apr 2021 #5
Heller allows strict gun control including AWBs hack89 Apr 2021 #6
You're reading the decision rather selectively. WarGamer Apr 2021 #7
The federal courts have ruled four times since Heller that AWBs are constitutional hack89 Apr 2021 #12
And the latest is California losing it's AWB. WarGamer Apr 2021 #13
That ruling had more to do with handguns than rifles hack89 Apr 2021 #15
That's the focus of Heller WarGamer Apr 2021 #16
I agree there will not be another AWB hack89 Apr 2021 #17
When one of the MANY Assault weapon cases comes before SCOTUS WarGamer Apr 2021 #18
There are thousands in public already.... USALiberal Apr 2021 #3
actually tens of millions. WarGamer Apr 2021 #8
Wow, no way to fix this in the USA. Nt USALiberal Apr 2021 #9
Thats also a conservative YMB Apr 2021 #19
true. Add in the cheap AK and SKS clones since the 1980's WarGamer Apr 2021 #20
What is the point? It will go nowhere. Demsrule86 Apr 2021 #10
Must he? Iggo Apr 2021 #11
Wow the gunners jumped right in with NRA/GOP talking points. Kingofalldems Apr 2021 #14
Calling an opinion contrary to your own a "talking point" ... Straw Man Apr 2021 #21
And yours is a "straw man" argument ahimsa Apr 2021 #22
Clearly, it is not. Straw Man Apr 2021 #24
Sorry - you probably get that so often ahimsa Apr 2021 #25
No worries. Straw Man Apr 2021 #26
Ahhh, guns. Kingofalldems Apr 2021 #23

WarGamer

(12,423 posts)
2. It would never reach a vote because... filibuster
Fri Apr 16, 2021, 12:36 PM
Apr 2021

And after Heller, an AWB is probably unconstitutional, especially with Barf, GoodHair, Handmaiden, Sleepy, Scalito and JR on the Court.

Calista241

(5,586 posts)
4. I'm not even sure there are 50 votes in the Senate for that.
Fri Apr 16, 2021, 12:47 PM
Apr 2021

Nevermind 60 votes to defeat the filibuster.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
6. Heller allows strict gun control including AWBs
Fri Apr 16, 2021, 12:49 PM
Apr 2021

Several state AWBs have been found constitutional post Heller. Heller says you have the right to own a handgun in your home for self defense. That is it.

WarGamer

(12,423 posts)
7. You're reading the decision rather selectively.
Fri Apr 16, 2021, 12:59 PM
Apr 2021

Let's start.

From Harvard Law and Policy Review:

To the question “what is protected under the Second Amendment?”, Heller answers: those firearms in “common use for lawful purposes like self-defense.”[3] “Common use” suggests two possibilities.One is a narrow, numerical standard that would protect best-selling models from popular manufacturers but allow prohibitions on obscure brands of essentially the same gun. The other view is that “common use” means functionally common. This view would protect the entire class of similarly functioning guns regardless of whether millions were sold by popular makers.

Functional commonality is the better and really the only defensible view for two reasons. First, the cribbed numerical approach produces the same kind of equal protection problem that prompted challenges and then amendments to California’s assault weapons ban.[4] It is difficult to justify drastically different treatment of owners and manufacturers of functionally identical guns.

The second objection is that the common use standard derives from the eighteenth-century understanding that citizens were expected to answer the militia call with arms “provided by themselves in common use at the time for lawful purposes like self defense.”[5] Gun manufacturing at the time was pre-assembly line. Most private firearms were functionally similar, but every gun was essentially custom-made.[6] So, the common use standard was not and is not source specific.



So... with Heller language, AWB are certainly "in common use" and with the current makeup of SCOTUS, an AWB would be found unconstitutional.

Speaking of unconstitutional, did you read this?

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/14/902676422/federal-appeals-court-throws-out-california-ban-on-large-capacity-gun-magazines

In a blow to gun control activists, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled on Friday that California's ban on large-capacity ammunition magazines is unconstitutional, violating the Second Amendment.

In a 2-1 decision, the panel of judges found that such firearm magazines are protected arms under the Second Amendment and are not "unusual arms" that would fall outside its scope.




This is all really basic stuff... I'm not using obscure readings of the law to justify myself.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
12. The federal courts have ruled four times since Heller that AWBs are constitutional
Fri Apr 16, 2021, 02:52 PM
Apr 2021

They have never ruled the opposite. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

WarGamer

(12,423 posts)
13. And the latest is California losing it's AWB.
Fri Apr 16, 2021, 02:53 PM
Apr 2021

You can whistle through the graveyard but the truth is, an AWB is 10x more difficult today than in 1994.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
15. That ruling had more to do with handguns than rifles
Fri Apr 16, 2021, 02:57 PM
Apr 2021

Heller says you can own a handgun for self defense. That CA ruling says that banning the magazines used in the majority of handguns violates Heller.

WarGamer

(12,423 posts)
16. That's the focus of Heller
Fri Apr 16, 2021, 03:01 PM
Apr 2021

But the language will be used to defend Assault Weapons which CLEARLY qualify as Common Use firearms.

Several of the exceptions you noted are all pre-2019 and don't reflect the Trump Federal Courts.

NY also lost the court case re: magazine capacity

There will not be another 1994 AWB. Politically and Constitutionally it's done.

I think we'll see an AWB case make it to SCOTUS soon. They can't keep avoiding it.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
17. I agree there will not be another AWB
Fri Apr 16, 2021, 03:06 PM
Apr 2021

And it has everything to do with the Senate. To win the Senate means we have to elect Dems in pro-gun swing states. The Democratic party will choose the Senate over an AWB every time - just like after Sandy Hook.

WarGamer

(12,423 posts)
18. When one of the MANY Assault weapon cases comes before SCOTUS
Fri Apr 16, 2021, 03:08 PM
Apr 2021

You think they'll lean towards the Circuit Courts?

I don't.

I think the Circuit Court cases in NY, CT, MA, etc... will be taken down.

USALiberal

(10,877 posts)
3. There are thousands in public already....
Fri Apr 16, 2021, 12:41 PM
Apr 2021

And you’ll never collect them all.

Anyone can buy one and if not they can buy an illegal one that was stolen.

The big question is why people in the United States want to kill a bunch of people

 

YMB

(63 posts)
19. Thats also a conservative
Fri Apr 16, 2021, 08:15 PM
Apr 2021

number based on actual sales according to the FBI (or was it ATF?). So that doesnt include private sales nor home made "ghost guns". Considering that, the real number could be in the 20+ million. And thats just AR15's, doesnt include other stuff like AK's, Mini-14's ect. or "Battle Rifles" like the M1a, FAL, G3 and the like which also fall under the "assault weapon" category.

Straw Man

(6,622 posts)
24. Clearly, it is not.
Fri Apr 16, 2021, 08:26 PM
Apr 2021

Nowhere did I misrepresent or exaggerate the statements of my interlocutors. It seems that you don't know what a "straw man" argument is.

ahimsa

(426 posts)
25. Sorry - you probably get that so often
Fri Apr 16, 2021, 08:58 PM
Apr 2021

It was simply a reference to your name hence the quotes. My apologies- have a good weekend!

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