General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThere should be laws preventing any vote from being rejected for signature differences,
Without having proof of who signed it, and signed statements the real voter did not sign it. There has to be a record in each state of any ballot rejected because of this , or like with other issues it becomes corrupted, and people illegally use it for political reasons for their vote tally's. Disabled people like me can't sign their name the same, so this is a stealing of our votes, if this happens. Is there ways in every state people can check to see if their vote was counted?
Is there a record of all voter ballots rejected kept? Is this just another heavily used tactic to not count votes when the race is close? Any lawsuits from this happening? How would anyone know if this happened to them by the fascists party, formerly the GOP. No ballot should get rejected without documentation, and proof its not from the actual voter. Not from someone claiming by looking at it and saying it doesn't count. People rejecting votes without documentation, and evidence should have severe penalties and consequences for doing this. Every state needs to have set up a system for voters to check their vote was counted and who for, and a record of it that can easily be checked.
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,852 posts)In modern times, especially, it's a stupid way to help verify someone's identity.
My legally blind brother certainly can't sign his name very well at all anymore, made even worse by poor coordination in his old age. It's just scribbles now, never looking the same.
I've intentionally signed my first name in a very bizarre and unusual way, with letters within other letters and such, since my early 20's because nobody else would ever do it that way unless they already witnessed me doing it. Nonetheless, signature comparisons are very silly.
jimfields33
(15,693 posts)Even annually if you desire. I know many who do that. I havent needed to yet but I can see myself needing to in ten years. My fingers get tighter and tighter ever year.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Another form of a poll tax.
And unless they're going to hire bonafide handwriting experts at every polling place, it makes no sense to insist on signature matching. People's signatures can change from day to day, depending on the circumstances.
jimfields33
(15,693 posts)I think you can send it in. Not sure though. Id rather have my signature count. If you cant use drivers license, there has to be a way to verify the vote. Signature is one way.
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,852 posts)... "signature" can look very different from one time to the next.
I'll admit that I've never seen it be a problem for him, though. I suspect that most people who see it assume that he's about 200 years old or something.
What about illiterate people? Do some people still sign with an "X", I wonder?
"This x doesn't quite look like the one on file!"
I still remember a bank that asked people to put their thumbprint on checks. That was back in the early 70's! The patrons (including me) first put their thumb on some kind of hard wax, if my memory is correct. That could pose other problems, I suppose.
jimfields33
(15,693 posts)I can see the X looking different. I wonder how many signatures really get rejected. I hope not many.
duforsure
(11,884 posts)It's very discriminatory rejecting a vote by signature without full investigation, and complete documentation before a voter ballot can be rejected, because they're disabled. Signature rejections should have very strict guidelines , and penalties if ignored for political gains. I suspect this IS being used to help certain politicians in close races, and election corruption .
no_hypocrisy
(46,024 posts)Many times, a voter won't have a "legible" signature and it's more of a squiggle. Kind of hard to compare "signatures" when it's more like horizontal linear art. Not everyone has a DJT squiggle that's consistent and easy to compare against.
eShirl
(18,479 posts)Some disabilities aren't obvious to the casual observer. I had to switch to writing with my non-dominant hand.
bearsfootball516
(6,373 posts)Our county clerk is a Republican, but he's surprisingly progressive when it comes to signature validation.
He tells us during training, "If I sign my name 100 times in a day, every single one of those signatures is going to look different. Unless their signature is so egregiously different that it's overwhelmingly obvious the signatures are from different people, I don't care what it looks like."
MichMan
(11,868 posts)They are saying egregiously different or even the wrong names should be accepted unless there is proof. How exactly would one prove anything without going by the signature itself?
duforsure
(11,884 posts)Before a voters ballot could be rejected they should have verification it was someone else's signature , or the voter giving a signed statement they didn't sign it. Without documented verification it was corrupt a worker should not be allowed to discriminate because of my signature differences. Worse if they use it to corrupt the election results.
MichMan
(11,868 posts)They won't take the risk of questioning anything. It's hard enough now finding enough election workers (on e reason lines can be long)
Maybe Abigail Johnson really signs her name as Eric Smith, and when they try and contact her, she doesn't respond.
samnsara
(17,605 posts)haele
(12,640 posts)My signature is no longer the smooth cursive it was even 10 years ago, so it doesn't match my current driver's license close to "exactly" anymore. There's choppy gaps between certain letters, and my last name has begun to drag downward.
An untrained or inexperienced "signature checker" would reject most of my signature attempts for inconsistency if checking against my driver's license
Haele
Midnight Writer
(21,712 posts)One person may be very picky, flagging every loop and whorl as suspect.
While another may be very loose, ignoring obvious discrepancies.
Identification by signature match is useless.
csziggy
(34,131 posts)With DeSantis' own signatures over the years as an example:
If the Florida governor gets his way, mail-in ballot signatures would have to match the most recent signature on file with the state. His own signature history shows how autographs evolve.
By Steve Contorno
Published Apr. 13 Updated Apr. 14
{SNIP}
Richard Orsini, a forensic document examiner from Jacksonville Beach, teaches election officials how to spot the similarities.
The initial downstroke of the R in Ron is consistent in the two signatures, he said. And the finishing stroke in both samples is a cursive s that crosses back over the last name in a clockwise curl. Despite other differences, Orsini said it would be reasonable to conclude these signatures belong to the same person.
Orsini and other handwriting experts cram a lifetime of knowledge into their hours-long training sessions with election workers and canvassing boards the volunteers who make quick decisions on whether to reject or accept a mail-in ballot based on the signature. One of the pieces of wisdom they impart is the importance of having multiple specimens to make a fair determination.
If I get a call from an attorney for a contested will, heres my standard ask of them: I need the best copy of the questioned document signature, and then I need 10 to 20 uncontested, known general signatures that you can find written as close to the date of the contested signature, Orsini said. Thats my first request.
More: https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2021/04/13/desantis-wants-voters-signatures-to-match-would-his-pass-the-test/