Bodycam footage released in police shooting of Isaiah Brown

[StarfishSaver]

The cop claims he thought Isaiah had a gun in his hand and had it up to his head.

“Show me your hands! Show me your hands! Show me your hands, now! Show me your hands! Drop the gun! He’s got a gun to his head! Drop the gun now! Stop walking towards me! Stop walking towards me! Stop! Stop!”

Isaiah had a phone in his hands. He had it up to his head because he was talking on it. He was talking to the 911 dispatcher.

The cop was 50 feet away when he fired.

He shot Isaiah 10 times.

Why would you shoot someone you think has a gun to his own head? From 50 feet away? 10 times?

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/bodycam-video-911-call-released-in-case-of-virginia-man-shot-by-sheriffs-deputy/2650612/

It will be interesting to see what excuses people come up with to justify this shooting.

[Karadeniz]

1. I think it didn't take long for cops to figure out the right things to say when their cameras are

Rolling! They always announce that the offender has a gun before shooting him in the back.

[HipChick]

2. Execution of POC by police...

but let the cop apologists run in..

[Captain Stern]

3. I don't think you're going to find a lot of folks trying to justify this.

Even if the cop actually thought the victim had a gone to his head....why shoot him?....to stop him from killing himself?

[StarfishSaver]

4. Oh, you'd be surprised ...

I no longer am.

[StarfishSaver]

14. It only took 10 posts ...

[marie999]

17. Show me in my post where I justified the killing.

[sop]

46. They killed him to save his life. Cops are sworn to protect innocent life, so it was justified.

[LisaL]

80. He is alive, despite being shot 10 times.

NT

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

5. Even I can't see why he opened up like that

Just insane

[StarfishSaver]

6. You can't?

I have a good idea why he did.

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

7. State your argument

I could change my mind?

[IrishAfricanAmerican]

9. How about that?

Makes perfect sense to me too.

[StarfishSaver]

11. When all else fails, play dumb

As if one couldn't possibly have any reason to know why this happened.

[IrishAfricanAmerican]

13. Black guy with a cell phone is one of their greatest hits!

[Bettie]

34. If the suspect is Black

everything looks like a gun...cell phone, wallet, bag of sandwiches from Subway....

[StarfishSaver]

35. Skittles ... bottle of water ...

[Bettie]

36. And compliance, well

Philando Castile, for example, was complying with the law and the cop's orders and he was still shot to death.

[StarfishSaver]

38. "Show me your hands" Adam showed him his hands. And got shot anyway

Because, according to some people here, he put his hands up too fast.

[Bettie]

48. It's always going to be too fast

or too slow...not doing it "right"...in a way that seemed threatening...there's always an excuse, isn't there?

And plenty of people who look for a reason to excuse them.

[StarfishSaver]

55. ...

[Bettie]

66. Yep

that right there.

[PutGramaOnThePhone]

65. This!

[LanternWaste]

47. I'm not wholly convinced you're aware of the difference between "can not" and "will not

But yeah... that's so fetch

[Chautauquas]

8. It will interesting to see what excuses people come up with to justify this shooting

Do you mean here on DU? I don't think that's going to happen, but if anyone does I'll make another post and admit I was wrong.

[StarfishSaver]

25. Look down ...

[Chautauquas]

29. I was wrong

and I'm willing to admit it. I would add that I'm shocked to see those comments here but I'm getting older and nothing surprises me anymore.

[marie999]

10. Until there is a full investigation, I will not say what I feel about the officer's actions.

About Isaiah, I don't care that he was talking to 911 when an officer tells you to show your hands and drop the gun you show your hands and drop whatever it is in your hands. I don't care if the 911 operator tells the officer that Isaiah says he does not have a gun how does the operator know that Isaiah doesn't have a gun. I am not saying that if he raised his hands and dropped the phone he would not have been shot, but if he had done what the officer told him to do, it is possible he would not have been shot.

[StarfishSaver]

12. And we have a winner

That didn't take long.

Last week, Adam Toledo dropped the gun and raised his hands and was shot anyway. One of the excuses given by several people here that time was that he dropped the gun and put up his hands too fast.

This man was not shot because he didn't drop the phone in his hand. He was shot because a trigger happy cop shot him because he saw him as a threat - something that tends to happen to Black people far more than it happens to white people.

And, fyi - claiming that you're waiting for an investigation to be complete before passing judgment and then listing all the reasons you think the cop was justified and that it was this young man's fault that he got shot is not an objective or open-minded approach. You clearly picked a side and you're sticking with it.

[gab13by13]

18. Amazing

[marie999]

28. I did not write that I thought the officer was justified.

All I stated was if he had done what the officer told him to do there was a POSSIBILITY he would not have been shot. I did not write that if he had done what the officer told him to do he would not have been shot. Post a response if you want, I will not be able to read it.

[MrsCoffee]

50. But you assumed the victim did not comply. Why?

[StarfishSaver]

57. But you assumed the victim didn't comply and that if he had he POSSIBLY wouldn't have been killed

But you made no assumptions about what the cop could/should have done differently that could have resulted in him not shooting an unarmed man 10 times. In fact, you went out of your way to announce that you weren't drawing any conclusions about his actions while in the next several sentences, drawing all kinds of conclusions about the person he killed.

[MrsCoffee]

20. Why do you think he didn't raise his hands? Why are you assuming he didn't comply?

Complete statement from David Haynes of The Cochran Firm - D.C., attorney for Isaiah Brown:

"After viewing the Spotsylvania County Sheriff's deputy's bodycam video and listening to the 911 call, it is evident that the tragic shooting of Isaiah Brown was completely avoidable. In the 911 call, Isaiah clearly told dispatch that he did not have a weapon more than 90 seconds before the deputy arrived. He told dispatch that he was walking away from the house and away from anyone else and was on the roadway by himself.

“Isaiah was on the phone with 911 at the time of the shooting and the officer mistook a cordless house phone for a gun. There is no indication that Isaiah did anything other than comply with dispatch’s orders and raised his hands with the phone in his hand as instructed.“

The cop gets the benefit of a full investigation, but you’ve already judged the black man shot by that cop.

And people wonder why we are where we are.

[mcar]

26. Yet, you'll say what you feel about the victim's actions

with no hesitation.

[marie999]

30. Not just the victim.

Anyone who is stopped by a cop should do what the cop says to do.

[Tommymac]

31. I think I'll make the decision not to listen to you anymore.

Have a good day.

[mcar]

32. In this case, the victim did what the cop said to do

"show me your hands!" He raised his hands. "Drop the gun!" He didn't have a gun to drop.

What's your next excuse?

[niyad]

39. Like the conflicting, impossible to obey contradictory orders given to the army Lt.?

[PutGramaOnThePhone]

45. Exactly!

Emblematic of the sorry state of affairs that leads to these tragic ends - too many “professional” (sarcasm) LEOs, whose first and only response is to kick ass and punish, when they don’t like the *look* of somebody.

[mac2766]

59. Including letting him/her search your vehicle without cause?

Allowing him/her search your home without a search warrant?

The question is related to your response not to the OP.

[PutGramaOnThePhone]

63. Woah...really...simple as...

that? So much to work with...but...must...stop...escalating...sarcasm...stream.

That is all.

[Captain Stern]

71. Why is that?

And....because "you'll get killed" isn't a good answer.

It might be the correct answer, but it's not a good one.

[Voltaire2]

75. Why?

When did we cede this authority to the police?

Perhaps you are right and we need to accept that we live in a police state.

[PutGramaOnThePhone]

40. No

Up until now I may very well have said something like: “if he had just done what the officer told him to do”, but no more. We have seen too many examples of multiple cops yelling out conflicting instructions - how the hell does one appear compliant to the cop’s then? We have seen too many examples of what looks like compliance to a cop, still ending with bullets (Adam). We have seen too many examples of excessive force - punching, kicking, spray - that shows irrational anger in the cops, and certainly can escalate fear and/or anger in who they are beating, and escalate the situation to shooting.

This is am emotional response, not articulated as well and succinctly as most here, but I had to respond. I’m sick of “if he had...” excuses for the cops, creeping into these discussions. I’m just going to say that Isaiah was doing the best thing that he thought he could do, to save his life in that moment - I don’t presume to know, or even guess - I’m white, small town, and never have contact with cops.

No. Just no.

[StarfishSaver]

42. Thank you so much for this thoughtful and insightful post

I think many people are evolving on this the way you have. After awhile, the justifications just stop making sense to people.

It's interesting that the victims in these situations - who are untrained and frightened - are always second-guessed, but the trained cops with the experience, guns and badges are given a pass, regardless what they do, because "they were in fear."

It's got to stop.

[PutGramaOnThePhone]

49. This! So much...

Last edited Sat Apr 24, 2021, 12:45 PM - Edit history (1)

this, that you say about the victims, the expectations, the fear, and the “fear”.

Thanks for your insight and feedback!

[ShazzieB]

76. O.M.G.

This: It's interesting that the victims in these situations - who are untrained and frightened - are always second-guessed, but the trained cops with the experience, guns and badges are given a pass, regardless what they do, because "they were in fear."

Wow. Holy crap. I'm almost embarrassed to say that I never actually thought about it from this exact angle, that OF COURSE the cops should be held to a higher standard, since they're the ones with the training.

I mean, I think I'm pretty good at not always looking for a justification for the cops. I definitely don't ever assume these things are justified; if anything, I tend to go in the opposite direction. I figured out a while back that there are a hell of a lot of cops who seem to operate on the assumption that all poc are automatically super dangerous and threatening, regardless of the individual's age or other personal characteristics or circumstances. I see that as being the basis for the vast majority of these shootings, and I know how mesed up that is. But I never thought about the training angle and that being a reason why we have the right to hold the cops to a higher standard. Bingo. I'm so glad you pointed that out.

The more I think about it, the more I think the training that cops are getting must be lacking in a lot of areas. There doesn't seem to be enough emphasis placed on learning how to de-escalate tense situations or developing good communication skills or actually LISTENING to what people are trying to tell you. A lot of cops don't seem to be able to even be able to recognize when they are dealing with someone who is so terrified they literally can't think straight. They definitely don't seem to be aware that poc are more than likely to be very afraid of them (for very sound and real reasons), let alone realize that certain behaviors (like shouting confusing orders in an angry and threatening way) is a lousy way to deal with someone in that frame of mind.

That is just some of the stuff they should getting a lot more training on, based on the behavior a lot of them demonstrate. And don't get me started on how badly they need to be trained on how to recognize their own unconscious biases (which we ALL have) and be aware of how those things can influence their behavior without their even realizing it.

[sop]

54. Disobeying a lawful order of a police officer is a second-degree misdemeanor, it is not a capital

offense. In some states (like Florida) it can be punishable by up to 60 days in jail, six months of probation and/or a $500 fine. Killing a man for failing to follow a lawful order is not reasonable or even justified, even if the officer claims he is in "fear for his life." That's not a justification, it's an excuse.

[Solomon]

64. What order did he disobey?

[sop]

69. He reportedly disobeyed the officer's orders:

"Show me your hands! Show me your hands! Show me your hands, now! Show me your hands! Drop the gun! Drop the gun now! Stop walking towards me! Stop walking towards me! Stop! Stop!” I believe cops are taught to scream stuff like this every time they confront a suspect standing in front of them.

When wrestling with a suspect on the ground they will yell "stop trying to take my gun!" While viciously beating or choking a handcuffed individual they will scream "stop resisting!" Or say "just relax!" while the suspect is losing consciousness from lack of oxygen.

It's all done for the body cam recording, and provides them "reasonable justification" after they use deadly force.

[LisaL]

79. Since he didn't have a gun, how could he have dropped it?

[marie999]

81. Since the cop assumed it was a gun, he should have dropped the phone.

I am not saying that would have kept him from being killed.

[LisaL]

82. But how would he know what the cop assumed?

By the way he isn't dead.

[StarfishSaver]

85. He's supposed to have the presence of mind to use logic in a moment like that?

"It's dark, I'm in a driveway, I hear a cop (I think he's a cop) screaming at me while I'm trying to talk to the 911 operator. He's screaming 'DROP THE GUN!' I don't have a gun, but maybe he's talking about the phone I'm holding. Should I drop the phone and put up my hands? Why yes, that would be the right thing to do. Óperator? I'm going to have to go now because the cop screaming at me thinks this phone is a gun and I have to figure out how to drop it JUST RIGHT, so he doesn't think I'm throwing it down all wrong and shoot me like that kid got shot in Chicago and I need to make sure he sees me in the dark throwing the phone that's not a gun down so that he doesn't think I still have it in my hands when I put up my hands and shoot me like that kid in Chicago. But if you could please stay on the line in case no matter what I do, he shoots me anyway, you can call me an ambulance, that would be great."

Actually, you know what would have been easier? For the cop to stop screaming at him, for him not to assume he needed to be shot because he had what the cop thought was a gun to his own head (who shoots someone because they're holding a gun to their own head?!) and certainly not assume he himself was in such immediate danger from 50 feet away that he had to shoot a man in his driveway.

[llashram]

56. what??

with all the executions lately of unarmed African-American males, both slow-9minutes to kill to a quick execution/murder like this, you still feel the African-American male in this shooting did not comply quickly enough? Amazing.

[HipChick]

72. Another of these 'if they would just comply' BS..

So sick of this crap..

[Voltaire2]

74. Justifying summary execution.

[ecstatic]

77. A gun and a phone don't look alike, BTW

Not to mention most phones cost anywhere between $500 to $1,000. Not something most people want to drop to the ground, especially when everyone except for murderous cops can tell the difference.

[Happy Hoosier]

78. Ummmm what was the rush to shoot?

The use of deadly force should be limited to cases where there is an imminent danger. An unknown object next to the guys head isn’t an imminent danger to anyone else. He wasn’t in a shooting stance. He was not pointing a “weapon” at the officer or anyone else. Failure to comply with lawful instructions is not a capital crime.

[Carlitos Brigante]

15. It seems to me, based on the article, that he clearly tried to save the man's life. Thinking he had

gun to his own head......... by shooting him 10 times. Makes perfect sense

[StarfishSaver]

16. NO, Son! Don't DO IT!

Let me do it for you!

[SYFROYH]

19. I think charges need to be brought when cops misidentify a threat when none exist

When the facts show an unarmed person is shot and killed it sounds like a voluntary manslaughter type of charge to me.

Let a jury decide if the cop acted reasonably.

[StarfishSaver]

22. The problem is that cops disproportionately assume Black people are threats

[SYFROYH]

24. Yes, that true, but I think we still need to get cops in court

When an actual threat did not exist. I know that juries are also biased and likely to give the benefit of the doubt.

It’s the only chance for accountability.

[StarfishSaver]

27. True

[IrishAfricanAmerican]

61. Gonna have to reign in those unions first.

[Captain Stern]

37. I agree.

I've always thought that cops (who supposedly have a lot of training that I don't have) should be held to a higher standard than I am. That's obviously not happening, and probably not going to.

At this point, I'm fine with them just being held to the same standard as the rest of us.

If I were to shoot someone to death because I thought they had a gun, and were going to shoot me.....and it turned out that the person I shot didn't even have a gun, I'd be in jail immediately.

I wouldn't be let go, and placed on leave. I'd be in jail, then taking a plea bargain, and heading off to prison. As I should be. There should be consequences for being wrong.

But all too often, it seems, cops get a pass. A lot of times it doesn't matter if they were wrong.

[PutGramaOnThePhone]

51. Right!? n/t

[Tom Rinaldo]

21. No excuse. Not for one shot, let alone ten n/t

[mcar]

23. I can't keep up

This has to stop.

[Eyeball_Kid]

33. It's as if guns are the cops' "hammer."

"If the only tool you have is a hammer, you will start treating all your problems like a nail.”

[PutGramaOnThePhone]

52. Great comment...

sorry, I want to make it less pithy by saying that all too often it looks like hate, anger, fists, a knee, boots, clubs, mace, tasers, are the only other tools they have, but yes, nothing like the feel of a hammer in your hand to make you wanna pound something.

[Hoyt]

41. Benefit of doubt goes to unarmed man shot.

[StarfishSaver]

43. ...

[PutGramaOnThePhone]

60. Yeah...

really. If more of us could at least get to that as a starting point, wow. And “unarmed *man*” rather than “black man”. I know the whole point is black, or *other* color. I guess I mean it would be a good start if “black man” was not code for so many to start with: aah, there ya go, why was he even being black around cops?

Shoulda just left your statement as quality “enough said”...guess I’m getting carried way by my emotions in this thread 😀

[Takket]

44. i can't even see anything...

the camera is pointed at the ground but there is a split second when it pans up and i see a glowing light. i think that maybe is the cell phone? and the cop says he has "a gun to his head".

well guns don't glow, so if he seeing the glowing cell phone screen and saying that is the gun? if so this cop is either full of shit or dumb as a brick which in my opinion only matter for what degree of attempted murder he gets charged with. and walking towards him, from still that far away, is not justification to open fire. he may not have "obeyed the order" but he's no more a threat at 45 feet then he is at 50. Besides the distance doesn't even matter, with a gun you can shoot at someone from anywhere. so the only thing that matters is that the cop mis-IDed the gun.

this shooting is not justified IMO

[sarisataka]

53. In the cops favor-

there is no reason to believe a person who says they do not have a gun until they have been searched.

Against him- he had time, it takes several seconds to run 50 feet allowing time to react,
-distance, while 50 feet is well within pistol range an accurate offhand shot is difficult giving a person with the ability to brace, say against a car, the advantage and
-cover, by placing the car between himself and the potentially armed person he is reasonably well protected to continue verbal de-escalation

Also shooting a person who you believe is suicidal seems counter productive.

No- I cannot see a justification here.

[people]

58. Same event but . . .

Person holding cell phone to his ear is white, blond hair. No shooting. No problem. Also, if the 13 year old in Chicago had been white he never would have been murdered.

[cate94]

62. I can't imagine how frightening it is

To be a P.O.C. in this country. We need to take guns away from the police. We need to get racists out of the police. This is just sickening.

[RockRaven]

67. Cop said the magic words to justify killing... Just like one of the first episodes of South Park

"It's coming right for us!"

[CaptainTruth]

68. Shot 10 times.

This once again illustrates my point that too many police don't/can't/won't differentiate between "eliminating the threat" & "eliminating the person."

If there's a real threat 1 or 2 shots can incapacitate a person & eliminate the threat. 10 shots Is excessive force & shows intent to eliminate the person.

In this case, no shots were justified.

I'm so damn tired of these trigger-happy cops...

[BobTheSubgenius]

70. "He was clearly trying to end his own life."

"I took quick action and did it for him. Just another public service we offer."

[-misanthroptimist]

73. I think a good number of cops are ill-suited to the job.

Many seem to fear excessively for their lives. I'm surprised they don't shoot fast-food workers who quickly reach under the counter for condiments.

[greenjar_01]

83. Cop's an idiot and should be locked up

[LisaL]

84. That about sums it up.

Hard to understand how this one could be justified.
Even if cops believed victim had a gun, they also believed victim had a gun to his head.
So he wasn't the threat to them, only to himself, if they believed his cell phone was a gun.
Shooting someone 10 times is not a good way to stop supposed suicide attempt.