A serious honest question about Joe Manchin

[PA_jen]

I have to ask this after his hydrous op-ed explaining why he couldn't protect/support HR1. I suspect this will be locked or I will be ban but after reading this op-ed this white girl had 1 question. Is Joe Manchin a racist?


That "argument" is beyond doesn't hold water and he sees these states making voting harder.

I am sorry but after this op-ed I find him a danger to our democracy and our party.

[Hoyt]

1. Guess we ought to boot him out of Party and reinstate MAJORITY Leader McConnell.

[PA_jen]

3. He actively works against the Democratic platform and the

only time he has voted our way was when he got some sort of pork spending. He and Synema need Primaried.

[RKP5637]

5. Yep, a covert republican, he is. n/t

[I_UndergroundPanther]

7. I think he

Might be a covert republican too.

[brooklynite]

17. "AP FACT CHECK: Manchin, Sinema do not vote with GOP more"

While Manchin and Sinema have indeed been more likely than other Democrats in either the Senate or House to cross party lines, it’s not true they vote more often with Republicans than with fellow Democrats. And they haven’t done so in Biden’s presidency. So far, they’ve aligned with Biden 100% of the time.

According to CQ Roll Call, Manchin voted against his party’s majority 38.5% of the time last year, while Sinema did so for 33.1% of the votes. Democratic Sen. Doug Jones of Alabama, who lost his reelection race in November to Republican Tommy Tuberville, was third at 32.2%.

In the House, Rep. Ben McAdams, D-Utah, most frequently voted last year against his party, at 27.3%, followed by Rep. Collin Peterson, D-Minn., at 23.7%. Both lost to Republican challengers in November.

Manchin and Sinema have also supported Biden’s position in every instance so far this year, including numerous confirmation votes on Biden nominees, COVID-19 relief and the commission to investigate the Jan. 6 insurrection, according to FiveThirtyEight’s count. Sinema was not in town for last week’s vote on the Jan. 6 commission, citing a family matter, but said she would have backed it if she were.

https://apnews.com/article/ap-fact-check-voting-rights-government-and-politics-c65d4424c200ede56fc31db42e28e084

[PA_jen]

21. Funny how this lame fact check is always dragged out BUT the Truly important votes

like H.R.1 when we need us the most they always stab us in the metaphorical back.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

39. A+

It's a worthless fact check. They're still doing everything they can to sabotage the next election and the Democrats will be seen as the party so feckless they couldn't protect voting rights from racist Republicans.

[Escurumbele]

57. Thank you for saying that...You are correct, they don't vote with Dems where it matters

I iwsh I knew what Biden can do about those two, having a 50/50 it is a very difficult situation.

[LiberalArkie]

83. He is just an old style conservative Southern Democrat. No difference than Wallace, Faubus, and all

the rest from the 1950's +

His daughter learned a lot from him

[ForgoTheConsequence]

24. No, they only vote with Republicans when it comes to disenfranchising non-white voters.

Terrible point. Try again.

[PA_jen]

28. thank you.

[bottomofthehill]

35. Great idea. Primary him, maybe a with a socialist turned Democrat.

Alter a leftist candidate backed by liberal money nation wide beats him, that candidate will get beat by 30 plus in the general like Joe Biden was.

Look, he sucks, but he voted with the Democrats when it mattered. We have a Democratic majority in the senate. Let’s worry about picking seats up in PA, WI and other places that are not plus 30 R, so we don’t need him.

He walks, we are fucked.

[SamsDrink]

62. No...HR 1 is what matters

Without National election rules in place, the Republicans will rig State election rules in their favor, and be able to install an Authoritarian dictator. The Democracy will be done, and sites like this will be shut down. Plus, if Garland let’s the Insurrectionists’ leaders go unpunished, they will be free to reign down violence on those that don’t believe. It will be Germany in the 1930s 90 years later

[budkin]

64. WE WON'T HAVE THE HOUSE THEN

It won’t matter if we increase our chances in the Senate. We are F*** once we lose the House in 2022. This is one ONE SHOT to save Democracy.

[bottomofthehill]

68. Right, so threatening to primary him in 2024 proves what point

22 is what matters.
The seats that mattered were in 20,
Maine where we got the shit kicked out of us, and North Carolina where our nominee fucked his mistress and us in the process.

[soldierant]

69. Agreed. I don't get what part of

"Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell" they don't understand.

What we need in 2022 is not to primary these two, but tohang on to every blue Senator we hav, while also flipping some red seats.

Then they can vote however they like but we will have wnough clout to move on to better things.

But it's not going to be easy. All the energy currently invested in complaining about them will be needed.

[budkin]

72. We LITERALLY have minority rule RIGHT NOW

McConnell IS the de facto leader of the Senate because of Manchin and Sinema. Stop pretending otherwise.

[SergeStorms]

85. +1,562,845

Arbitrary number, but I agree 100%.

[Trust_Reality]

74. No. I agree that it is HR 1 that matters now. The Rs are not going to support anything else for the

next 1.5 years.

[NEOBuckeye]

63. With "friends" like Manchin

Who needs enemies?

If we can't even pass voting reforms to stop Republican theft of elections because of this guy, we might as well already be dealing with Republican control of the Senate, if not Congress.

All of Manchin's grandstanding on shit like this, and he could very well still lose his seat at the end of the day. At least he could be remembered in history for taking a stand for something that actually matters. Instead, he'll likely go down as a spineless coward.

[PA_jen]

65. Bingo!

[Bettie]

12. Well, we won't see any further legislation passed

before 2022.

He's against the infrastructure bill, which is the only one that could possibly pass because it can be done through reconciliation.

He's against changing the filibuster in any way.

So, how is Moscow Mitch not still calling all the shots through his good buddies Manchin and Sinema?

Yes, Schumer can put bills on the floor, but there is zero chance of finding ten (or twelve) Republicans voting to allow them to move forward.

There could be investigations, but so far, no one seems particularly interested in holding anyone accountable for anything.

[PA_jen]

22. handing 2022 to the republicans

[soothsayer]

32. I don't think so. I think it will rally the vote like Georgia

[Bettie]

36. At this point it is the only point of hope I have...

that it will piss Democrats off that they are being told that they aren't supposed to vote, that any agenda for people is being stopped, and they will turn out in large numbers.

[soothsayer]

46. Yes. Whatever is repressed springs back 10x stronger

They didn’t learn.

[Bettie]

51. I also saw that our turnout (Iowa)

was a lot higher than usual. MAGATs came out of their holes to vote for that orange thing in droves.

They registered a lot of new voters, because they thought nothing of going out during a pandemic and possibly infecting themselves and others.

The game is different this year. Democrats can get out there and chase down those votes.

[UGADawg]

71. I am in Georgia. No Democrat will ever................

win a statewide election again if SB1 does not pass. If one gets more votes the Legislature will take it away. Goodby Senator Warnock.

[PortTack]

77. As in '20 disputes will go to the courts. SCOTUS made it very clear,

They will not overturn elections when there is a clear winner.

If you want to DO something, you are in GA join Stacey Abrams fairfight.org

Stop posting and take action

[Elessar Zappa]

82. It's still useful

to hold the majority in the Senate due to judges, which is almost as important as voting rights. We desperately need more competent judges on the bench.

[Bettie]

86. We'll see

if he actually supports judges that Biden puts forward.

How many vacancies are there at this point? Will he support them or will he demand that they be "bipartisan" (iow: Mitch's picks)

[Elessar Zappa]

100. I think he'll support most

unless they’re too far ‘left” then Biden will probably have to pick a more moderate judge. But it’s better than the 0 judges we’d get under McConnell.

[ChrisF1961]

14. What's the point of Schumer being majority leader

if he can’t get anything passed. McConnell might as well be majority leader with the filibuster still in place.

[Sibelius Fan]

16. Schumer still controls nominating judges.

That is a huge point.

[ChrisF1961]

20. Actually it's the President who nominates judges

[PA_jen]

23. Schumer can guide them thru and use McConnell Tactics on Judges against him

[ChrisF1961]

29. Sure he can

But only if Manchin agrees. He might apply the same bipartisan standard to judges as he is doing to everything else.

[PA_jen]

34. yeah that is true too.

[Bettie]

37. As long as Joe Manchin agrees with

the selections....so, as long as Mitch doesn't tell him or Sinema that they don't agree, we might be able to get a few through.

[Tom Rinaldo]

19. The Covid Relief Bill, Biden's cabinet and Democratic Judges getting confirmed by the Senate...

...and most likely there will be one or two more funding bills passed through Reconciliation, like the Covid Bill was. McConnell could have blocked all of that.

[ChrisF1961]

26. Ok

The Covid relief bill already passed and most if not all of Biden’s cabinet is confirmed. And any further bills going through reconciliation will need Manchin’s support. How likely is that?

[Tom Rinaldo]

40. It's plausible Manchin could support further bills going through reconciliation

He is not opposed on substance to that much of Biden's agenda. His public position (except on legislation that he clearly does oppose) is that every effort should be made to attempt to govern wherever possible through bipartisan negotiations. Biden is making a good faith effort to do so on infra-structure. If that effort fails Manchin may support a modified version of what Biden is asking for through reconciliation (for instance he favors raising the corporate tax rate to 25%).

The Covid relief bill could not have passed via reconciliation if Manchin chose to hold out longer for bipartisan negotiations on it. He supported that "Democrats only" major piece of legislation after it was clear Republicans refused to negotiate over it in good faith. We will have to see what happens next

[ChrisF1961]

41. Plausible?

It’s also plausible 10 republicans will have a change of heart and end their obstruction.

[PortTack]

75. It would be passed thru reconciliation...might want to read about that

[ChrisF1961]

88. Only Manchin votes for it

Which is not guaranteed.

[Tom Rinaldo]

90. Of course it is plausible. It's been tried once so far under Biden and Manchin supported it

That makes it at least plausible that he would support another bill passed that way.

[ChrisF1961]

97. Yes

So is getting the vote of 10 republicans.

[Tom Rinaldo]

101. Thst has not been done. Passing multi-trillion dollar legislation via reconciliation

has been attempted once under Biden and accomplished with Manchin supporting it. Some things are more plausible than others, especially when there is clear recent precedent.

[ChrisF1961]

102. It is also plausible

Manchin will insist that it must be bipartisan. There is no guarantee he will support it.

[Ligyron]

99. And therein lies our only hope.

If Biden “reaches out“ enough To satisfy him, perhaps that will give him cover to say, “ OK we tried“ and then he’ll vote for those bills.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

25. Don't worry that will happen.

Thanks to states making it harder to vote and a watered-down infrastructure bill. Thanks Manchin!

[budkin]

45. TIRED EXCUSE

He’s already allowed the minority to control the Senate, so take your BS talking point and shove it.

[Hoyt]

56. Well, Budkin, you can run around scared because you think Democrats are too stupid and helpless

to turn out the vote. I don't, however.

They'll handle circumstances just like they did in 2018 and 2020, despite all the woe, is me.

[dianaredwing]

67. Its easy to fall into the Chicken Little mode

and think the sky is falling. Maybe it is, but if so, its not in our purview to do anything about it.

However, I tend to agree that most Democrats and anyone else who hopes to survive (and I do think that is a majority) are not going to just let this voter suppression shit go without a fight. I would venture that many don't even know it is going on. I think it is our job, as those who do know, to let everyone else know too, however that can be done. Inform the electorate BEFORE they try to vote. it takes too long to do anything through the courts later.

A helluva lot has happened in the past five months and its several more months before the 2022 elections. Just pile on the paperwork everywhere. Don't wait til the last minute. Keep their inboxes and emails filled with complaints to let them know that we know what they are trying to do.

Party it up. We can go out now.

[budkin]

73. I intend to do everything I can

To sound the alarm and get to work!

[PortTack]

80. FYI: Every voter suppression law is currently facing legal challenges.

Many of these laws are poorly written, illegal and unconstitutional says Marc Elias attorney fighting for voting rights along side the ACLU, NAACP, fairfight.org and others. He agrees we need voter legislation, but until the time we can get something past, these suits buy democracy time.

Think about this..a year ago if anyone...anyone would have said Joe Biden will carry GA and they will elect 2 dem senators they would have been laughed out of the room...yet here we are.

Please..all of you....Choose a group and GET involved

Here are several groups working to level the playing field
Democracydocket.com
Fairfight.org
Don’t Be A Mitch
Nodemleftbehind
ACLU
NAACP
DNC

It’s up to us...get involved!!

[dianaredwing]

81. Thanks.

[DownriverDem]

78. Manchin's State

WV 2020 Election Results
Donald Trump Mike Pence 545,382
Joe Biden Kamala Harris 235,984

[Hoyt]

89. Definitely puts it in perspective.

[ShazamIam]

93. You have the right to say that and I am responding that my reaction is, we Democratic are so weak

that in the South we dare not seek what is needed. ps please see GA and the work of Stacy Abrams. We don't have to settle for Dixiecrats in 2021.

[Hoyt]

96. Stacy Abrams was smart enough to tell people that Georgia's new election law

does not mean we will lose elections.

“But she discouraged boycotts and reassured Democrats they can still win races under the new rules, even as she hoped they would be struck down in the courts.”

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-race-and-ethnicity-stacey-abrams-boycotts-voting-rights-7b507a2305ae2e420ddd9b7dffa73c44


Mayor Bottoms similarly said that educating voters is the key to the new election law.

I assume you are using the term “Dixiecrats” to describe today’s racist GOPers. Warnock, Ossoff, McBath, etc., definitely aren’t Dixiecrats.

[ShazamIam]

98. That is fine distraction and gaslighting, I am saying Manchin is a Dixicrat. All that other stuff

is what you are saying, not what I said. Clearly Warnock and Ossoff are not Dixiecrats as you suggest.

[Hoyt]

104. Don't think Manchin is a Dixiecrat. Manchin did take the Senate seat from

the last Dixiecrat in Congress, although Byrd did convincingly apologize.

[ShazamIam]

105. I agree, Dixicrat is obsolete as a label, the new label for that kind is neo-liberal.

[RKP5637]

2. I guess he's doing what he thinks pleases his constituents for their vote, right or wrong. Seems he

should just change his party to GOP.

[PA_jen]

6. Wonder if his minority constituents feel he is working for them?

[RKP5637]

10. Hard to tell, but from outward appearances he likes to please the GOP. n/t

[Hoyt]

59. Do you think "minority constituents" are going to let a few new obstacles keep them from voting?

I don't, because they never have.

I'd prefer to see the voting rights legislation pass. But I don't think it is dire as people are trying to make it appear.

Nor, do I think Democrats are as stupid and helpless as some seem to think.

[monkeyman1]

61. Manchin is a republican mole !! said that a long time ago !!

[RKP5637]

91. Yep!!! n/t

[Funtatlaguy]

4. I see "racism" on a spectrum level.

As a white southern liberal, I can tell you that there are a lot of secret closeted racists.
Many felt enabled by Trump to show their true “colors”.
I have no idea about Manchin.
He may not be a racist but his inaction on the filibuster will achieve racist goals.

[PA_jen]

8. yep.

[global1]

49. Do You Think If We Hang That 'Manchin Is A Racist' Moniker On Him That This....

might scare him enough to change his mind and vote with the Dems.

I don't think he'd like to be called a 'racist'. If he doesn't like that moniker - maybe we can coerce him into voting with the Dems.

Hey Joe Manchin - prove to you that you aren't a 'racist'.

Vote this voting rights bill through.

[walkingman]

9. Sadly, I think Manchin is simply representing his constituency. WV is very much Trump country

and the alternative is not good. We simply have to win more seats in the Senate. That is our only alternative.

I just hope that 2022 gives us an unexpected surprise and the people stand up for Democracy. It appears we going back to the 50's in terms of GOP nastiness. Hopefully a 60's type of uprising is the solution.

I think the next few years might actually be a defining point for our nation. I hope the good guys win.

[PA_jen]

11. I do too. I just fear the voter suppression laws effect the 2022 elections.

[Funtatlaguy]

13. To keep the House & Senate, we will need MASSIVE turnout to overcome

all of the new state voting suppression laws.
We will have to do a huge educational campaign on how to abide by these new laws and work around them as best we can. It won’t be easy.

[PA_jen]

15. yep.

[drmeow]

31. Sometimes a politician has to lead

rather than just do what their constituents want. When your constituents want to overthrow the government, doing what they want is more about maintaining power than leading or doing what is right for the country. Manchin's claims that the For the People Act is partisan is based on the faulty premise that the Republicans are willing to work with the Democrats. He knows damn well that isn't true and he also knows damn well that the Republicans are doing everything they can to block Democrats from voting and to maintain power in undemocratic ways. If he was a patriot with the courage of any convictions he would vote for the bill and then work like hell to convince the votes of WV that it was the right vote. If it means losing his Senate seat (i.e., giving up power), at least we'll have managed to protect voting on a federal level and there is a good chance we'd pick up a seat to replace his.

In his op ed he says "absolute power corrupts absolutely" - his position shows that he has been corrupted by the desire to stay in power.

I hold him in complete contempt.

[PA_jen]

38. BRAVO!!!

I wish I could have said it so beautifully.

[drmeow]

48. I just sent it to him

I wish I was a constituent so it would make a difference.

[PA_jen]

50. nice.

[PSPS]

58. "going back to the 50's in terms of GOP nastiness"

You mean like this?



The GOP today s nothing like the GOP of back then.

Republican Party Platform of 1956

Eisenhower was the last legitimately-elected republican president. Every one since then was elected/installed either against the will of the popular vote and/or by enlisting the help of our enemies.

[walkingman]

106. I agree that the "Rockefeller Republicans" were a different breed but I was thinking

more of the John Birch Society and Eugene McCarthy.

For sure I would welcome even a Nixon in today's political environment. IMO, there is nothing, absolutely nothing admirable about today's GOP.

[JI7]

18. His state is including a large number of Democrats there

[ecstatic]

27. Yes, until he shows otherwise. So is sinema. nt

[bdamomma]

30. Manchin

is a POS. Bastard. What the hell??


Repigs are bastards.

[hlthe2b]

33. There isn't anything you could say about Manchin that I haven't thought or at least considered.

It feels increasingly like a no-win situation.

Yes, we need him. But is he EVER going to come through for all of us (and not just those who MIGHT reelect him?)

[dweller]

42. Are any of the anti-Democratic voting bills introduced in WV yet ?

and if not, why not ?
🤔

✌🏻

[634-5789]

43. Manchin is a DINO, and will undermine any progressive laws we COULD HAVE enacted.

[Crunchy Frog]

44. Is he a racist? Well, he does claim to represent his constituents...

[Goonch]

47. ;-{)

[OldBaldy1701E]

52. Only this

And nothing more...

[NewHendoLib]

53. He is a DINO asshole.

[Generic Brad]

54. Could this be a negotiation ploy for his state?

I suspect he is trying to make sure that jobs come to WV and revitalize his state. The pot hasn't been sweetened enough for him yet, perhaps.

[PA_jen]

55. The infrastructure bill which is is also against would bring jobs to WV.

This is how he can get some sort of Kick back or advantage.

[Warpy]

60. He definitely needs a few scres tightened

and if he refuses the effort, he really needs to go, the sooner the better.

[speaknow]

66. What? What about the $15 dollar min Wage?

he didn't want that. He calls the Repukes
his friends! Yeah remember 1/6 the
Repukes wanted him to meet their friends.
He's dealing cards from the bottom of the deck.

[PA_jen]

70. Oh I was pissed at that. and it is important BUT H.R.1 is top priority.

We need this to defeat these states trying to prevent people from voting.

[TomDaisy]

76. am I wrong that the has a beef against Kamala: woman of color, and ascended to VP

where he did not.

Once she was put in charge of voting rights --- he immediately ran to publish the op-ed

[PA_jen]

79. I didn't put 2 and 2 together but that is something.

[Joinfortmill]

84. I don't think so. This is what Steve Schmidt had to say.

Since our democracy is at stake, I hope folks will understand that this is posted with all good will.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1401570738532986888.html?fbclid=IwAR3ALXNHxJvJDyW3dzzK4316-kbfrqjYmF2hPjABxDcb_tc_B4_YEJaQp4I

[Loki Liesmith]

87. Everyone I think is wrong is a racist

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

92. Is there a super-PAC with Manchin's name on it?

The only thing that makes sense to me is that there's a pot at the end of the rainbow for Senator Joe if he thwarts President Joe's agenda.

[Historic NY]

94. Are the Republicans in WV going to financially support his re-election?

He makes it difficult for Democrats to do so.

[Efilroft Sul]

95. We can talk all we want about GOTV to defeat the GOP and minimize Manchin and Sinema's influence...

But it means nothing if Congress does not pass laws to thwart the voter suppression efforts conducted by Republicans at the state level. NOTHING. Democrats could have overwhelming turnouts in 2022 and 2024, win by large margins, and still see the results overturned because the GOP is going to play that game. If Manchin and Sinema refuse to answer the fierce urgency of now, this country very well could be sunk.

[monkeyman1]

103. MANCHIN HAS INHALED TO MUCH METHANE IN THE COAL MINES !!