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Thu Jun 10, 2021, 05:28 PM

"Welcome to Socialism..." (This guy nails it!)

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Reply "Welcome to Socialism..." (This guy nails it!) (Original post)
Nevilledog Jun 10 OP
RANDYWILDMAN Jun 10 #1
Stuart G Jun 10 #2
LittleGirl Jun 11 #48
Moostache Jun 11 #53
LittleGirl Jun 11 #54
Faux pas Jun 10 #3
Nevilledog Jun 10 #4
Faux pas Jun 10 #5
Stuart G Jun 10 #6
FakeNoose Jun 10 #7
Voltaire2 Jun 10 #8
Joinfortmill Jun 10 #9
malaise Jun 10 #10
Yavin4 Jun 10 #11
pnwmom Jun 10 #12
Ferrets are Cool Jun 10 #15
pnwmom Jun 10 #20
Elessar Zappa Jun 10 #16
pnwmom Jun 10 #24
Progressive Jones Jun 10 #17
pnwmom Jun 10 #21
Ferrets are Cool Jun 10 #22
pnwmom Jun 10 #23
Ferrets are Cool Jun 10 #28
pnwmom Jun 11 #30
Ferrets are Cool Jun 11 #38
luvtheGWN Jun 11 #41
pnwmom Jun 11 #46
DFW Jun 11 #33
napi21 Jun 11 #31
Progressive Jones Jun 11 #32
pnwmom Jun 11 #34
oldsoftie Jun 11 #36
Baked Potato Jun 10 #13
Ferrets are Cool Jun 10 #14
OldBaldy1701E Jun 11 #37
BigmanPigman Jun 10 #18
Pepsidog Jun 10 #19
The Wizard Jun 10 #25
JudyM Jun 10 #26
oasis Jun 10 #27
JoeOtterbein Jun 11 #29
oldsoftie Jun 11 #35
Hugin Jun 11 #39
yonder Jun 11 #40
colsohlibgal Jun 11 #42
papa3times Jun 11 #43
BobTheSubgenius Jun 11 #44
peppertree Jun 11 #45
IronLionZion Jun 11 #47
LittleGirl Jun 11 #49
chwaliszewski Jun 11 #50
rickyhall Jun 11 #51
Brainfodder Jun 11 #52
calimary Jun 12 #55

Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 05:35 PM

1. Preach it to the choir, Baby



Being ill informed is like a freaking badge of honor that people who follow Fox, the Gop and Trump wear proudly.


Joy ,we have only gotten dumb and dumber as the overloads scream and yell and pillage the shared plunder all for themselves under the badge that Socialism is bad for the little people who should just fend for themselves on the scraps given to them.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 05:46 PM

2. We already have some forms of "socialism"...public drinking water" and my running water

in my home is provided by the city government at a very low cost, and our city ..."SKOKIE ILLINOIS"
buys it from ...EVANSTON ILLINOIS....and Evanston gets the water from Lake Michigan...After getting
the water from the lake (Evanston borders on the lake)...Evanston purifies the water, then sells it
to SKOKIE ILLINOIS.. which borders on Evanston...at a very low rate, and then Skokie takes some
of it and passes it on to the next suburb over...Morton Grove...

....Now the fee that can be added to the cost of the water by cities like Skokie and Evanston are
controlled by the State of Illinois...so no one city can price gouge another city in selling drinking and
washing water...(it all goes for the same low price..)..and yes...Lake Michigan has a lot of water to
give..
....just in case you have never seen one of the ...Great Lakes...take a look on the internet...and
yes, these are regular water lakes...with NO SALT WATER IN THEM...

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Response to Stuart G (Reply #2)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 12:43 PM

48. The water level of Lake Michigan

Is also the highest itís been in decades too. On the eastern side, near St. Joseph Michigan, the beach is so small now. You can barely find a spot to lay out. My old stomping grounds that I really miss!

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Response to LittleGirl (Reply #48)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 03:13 PM

53. Southern shores (New Buffalo, Michigan City) also very high

The beaches have risen and fallen before though...I recall a time in the late 70's and early 80's where the water was so high that many beachfront properties were feared lost to the lake...then by the late 90's there was 25 yards of sandy beach on he same spots...

I am more concerned with the fertilizer run off and dumping and the invasive carp and algae that have wreaked havoc on the shallows around the shores.

When I was a kid, my dad used to go "smelting" with nothing more than waders and a net and catch fish by the hundreds...I have not seen that again since about 1980.

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Response to Moostache (Reply #53)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 04:42 PM

54. Yup, all that is gone.

Cook Nuclear Center heated the water with their sewage and the kill off was significant. I was there and it was a tide of dead fish. Smelled awful. The runoff you mention worries me too. So many of my friends have thyroid problems.

The lake water was really clear on my last visit and I enjoyed swimming in it. Union Pier was my favorite spot near New Buffalo. Probably zebra mussels that cleared the water.

Anyway, wish I was there now instead of my land locked home.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 05:51 PM

3. Kickin'

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Response to Faux pas (Reply #3)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 05:52 PM

4. Cool beans.

Finally something for you to kick without disgust!

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Response to Nevilledog (Reply #4)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 06:00 PM

5. Lol

you got me

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 06:08 PM

6. Another form of........"Socialism".......free public education k - 12 grade...

low cost City Colleges ...also relate to this this idea
..also: police and fire departments for everyone's use, funded by public money..
..........parks open to everyone (city and non city residents)
..........public beaches that can be used by everyone.....
..........public highways...(non toll roads)
..........oh..well ...........don't forget ....libraries...???

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 06:15 PM

7. It used to be that the rich got all the advantages and nobody complained

But now we have the internet (and SMS), and everyone knows everyone else's shit.

Everyone can get in everyone else's face and complain about it.

That must be the NEW socialism.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 06:35 PM

8. What crisis?

There is no freaking crisis.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 07:07 PM

9. Amen

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 07:12 PM

10. This is excellent

Rec

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 07:21 PM

11. Exactly, and it's only going to get worse from here. Much, much, much worse.

We have a major political party that will exploit conflict at every turn in order to get enough power to blunt ANY progress on ANYTHING. That's why they're anti-vaxxers. It's why they're passing laws prohibiting teaching Critical Race Theory. It's why they got all crazy about Dr. Seuss.

Any conflict will do so long as it hides their real agenda. Protecting the wealthy from taxation.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 07:58 PM

12. Why do we have to rehab the word "socialist" when it was used by the Nazis,

in their National Socialist party, and the Russians, in the Soviet Union of Socialist Republics?

And the Scandinavian countries consider their governments to be capitalist, not socialist?

Why don't we say we support a well-regulated capitalism, as in the Nordic countries, or policies like those of FDR?

Why are we clinging to the words socialist and socialism? What do we gain by insisting on that label?

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #12)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 08:25 PM

15. TBH, I don't know more than a couple of people who consider themselves socialist.

The word is just a word used by repuq's to denigrate Democrats.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Reply #15)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 09:46 PM

20. AOC and Bernie, for example. nt

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #12)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 08:25 PM

16. I don't think people are insisting on that label.

Itís just what Republicans call all Democrats.

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Response to Elessar Zappa (Reply #16)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 10:17 PM

24. Tell that to Bernie and his supporters.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #12)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 08:33 PM

17. Words like socialism get a lot of shorts in a bunch here in the God Ol' U S of A.

Many minds haven't kept up past the Cold War era. "Damned Commies! Go Back To Russia ! "

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Response to Progressive Jones (Reply #17)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 09:48 PM

21. Right. So why brand ourselves with a term that doesn't exactly mean what we intend

and comes with lots of negative baggage?

It's not like many Democrats are advocating for the government to own the means of production -- as the Democratic Socialists of America do.

So why do we hand the R's a weapon with which to attack us?

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #21)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 09:59 PM

22. Who is this WE? If I were to believe your post as 100% truth, I would think that

ALL Democrats called themselves Socialists when they do not. It is frustrating to read it.

And by the way, repuq's do not need a weapon to attack us. They just make shit up.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Reply #22)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 10:13 PM

23. Many Democrats use the word "socialism" to describe Democratic policies

like Medicare and Social Security.

And some prominent Democrats, like Bernie, call themselves Democratic Socialists.

One of the first posters in this thread used the word "socialism" this way.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15515078

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #23)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 11:46 PM

28. We should stop feeding into the meme that socialism is bad

It is ONLY considered a bad word because of repuq's. I refuse to let them control the words I use.

And, I have come to the conclusion, in my mind, that no matter what WE as Democrats say or do, repuq's will never sway from their despicable, evil behaviors.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Reply #28)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 01:37 AM

30. I disagree. We should stop branding ourselves with a term that doesn't express our real policies

and that carries a ton of negative baggage.

Part of Trump's genius was in branding. We should get better at branding if we want to survive.

Democratic socialism is defined as having a socialist economy in which the means of production are socially and collectively owned or controlled, alongside a democratic political system of government. Democratic socialists reject most self-described socialist states and MarxismĖLeninism.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism#:~:text=Democratic%20socialism%20is%20defined%20as,socialist%20states%20and%20Marxism%E2%80%93Leninism.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #30)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 09:24 AM

38. There you go again with the WE keep branding ourselves with the Socialist term.

I just don't see it as a term that mainstream Democrats are using.
It is a fringe group.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #30)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 10:53 AM

41. "the means of production are socially and collectively owned or controlled"

This is not true of any of the first world countries. This first imperative is to ensure the health and welfare of a country's citizens. Countries like mine bear this in mind, and yet the US insists on calling Canada, the UK, Denmark etc. (by Wikipedia's definition) "socialist". Frankly I think Wiki's definition is totally wrong.

Perhaps the better term would be "Progressive" as it is the opposite of "Conservative".

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Response to luvtheGWN (Reply #41)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 11:50 AM

46. You're making my point. Canada, the UK, Scandinavia etc. are not socialist.

The people in the US who call them or their systems socialist are wrong.

The label progressive is fine with me. I just think the Democrats who are trying to "teach" people that socialism means something other than what it has meant historically, and who are trying to claim this new definition, are wrong. There is no shortage of words they could choose. They don't have to use one that comes prepackaged with negative associations.

Wikipedia's definition is correct. Canada is not socialist. The UK is not socialist. We can admire some of their systems without branding ourselves socialist.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Reply #28)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 02:10 AM

33. There are a lot of words that have been perverted by the media from what Webster says

In English, "Liberal" used to mean generous, free-thinking, ample, etc. In Foxese, it just means "Democrat."
In English, "Conservative" used to mean cautious, risk-averse, old-fashioned, etc. In Foxese, it just means "Republican."

In English, "socialism" used to designate a form of economy in which the government owned and governed the means of production. In Foxese, it just means "anything a Democrat wants or proposes."

I will cede this much: anytime there has been a government that has claimed to be "socialist," it ends up being a country whose people want out. I visited the "realexistierender Sozialismus" of East Germany when it was still that, and it was a scary place. I don't blame the people who lived there for risking their lives to escape. They even had laws on the books that forbade more than four people sitting together in a public place, because, you know, they might exchange ideas (horrors!). I was invited by the Cuban government to visit them for a few days in the 1980s. They chauffeured me around and kept an eye on me, as was to be expected, but allowed me enough contact with non-government people to get to find out what they thought of the place (they wanted out, albeit with a "the grass is always greener" overtone), and the government knew I spoke Spanish and Russian. I once even ended up in a situation where I had to translate back and forth between a Soviet air crew and the locals. The Russians never found out I wasn't Cuban, but the Cuban I helped out had bulgy eyes when I let on where I was from.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #12)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 01:45 AM

31. The word got a bad rap when it was recognized as the policy of Hitler & Mussolini. That's changing

because almost all the people who remember that era are dead. The younger people in the US have no idea what is meant by the old socialism & when someone tries to explain it to them, they say "What's wrong with that?"

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Response to napi21 (Reply #31)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 02:07 AM

32. As I've heard it and read it, when Hitler and his and his freaks started up their "NAZI" party,

the word "socialist" (or whatever it is in German) got thrown in to attract members.
Socialism was enjoying some popularity at the time. I'm no history major, just putting this out there.

In the 1970s, here in Chicago, we had a band of neo-nazis. They called themselves The National Socialist People's Party. They were a ragtag bunch who held rallies basically to get attention. Only a dozen, or so, would get into some stupid costumes, and march around. They never seemed to commit any crimes, until the leader was busted for being some kind of child molester. BTW, these are the neo-nazis who inspired the "Illinois Nazis" in the movie "The Blues Brothers", silly uniforms and all. There was a real life incident where they were chased out of a park by an angry mob. Getting driven off a bridge into a lagoon was pure Hollywood.

They had a bit of support, mostly from lower working class whites on the South Side who liked to play the "reverse discrimination" card. Here comes the irony... Exactly the same kind of people who would follow the extreme right today, the same kind of people who screech "socialism is coming to America!!!", joined a "Socialist People's Party". LMAO!!!

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Response to napi21 (Reply #31)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 05:31 AM

34. Still, there is no word shortage. So there's NO need to try to rehab that word.

The word has never meant what some Democrats want it to mean. FDR was never a socialist and his Social Security wasn't a socialist program.

Whatever people like AOC are trying to explain to young people isn't the definition of socialism, which is connected to the government owning the means of production.

Can't we come up with something better? Why do we have to be deliberately terrible about branding?

Even the Nordic countries don't refer to themselves as socialist countries. They are well-regulated capitalistic countries.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #34)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 06:35 AM

36. Your last 2 sentences should be broadcast loudly

Even their leaders have tried to dispel the notion that they are Socialist countries.
Then again, we here in the US who point to the programs those countries have will also refuse to fund them the same way those countries do. "Over there", most everyone pays into the system. Here, we have tens of millions who pay zero

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 08:05 PM

13. The wealthiest Americans really mismanage their trickle. nt

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 08:23 PM

14. If only

we could do something to make it better. I know some things are getting done, but it still seems as though we are paddling in quick sand.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Reply #14)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 08:13 AM

37. Human nature.

We don't worry when we are fed and living under a roof. Remove that, and humans will do something. Until that level of action is taken... nothing will happen. Not to mention the fact that there are still plenty of American humans who are so brainwashed in the concept of the American Dream that they will not believe that the biggest thing destroying our society is this whole 'haves and have-nots' mentality that we practice with relish. You cannot have a 'successful' capitalistic economy without making some people suffer. Yet, we are so sold on it that we don't care, even as we spew faux concern about it.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 08:47 PM

18. Well, that pretty much sums it all up in a nutshell.

"Nut" is the key word in describing these morons who buy this BS decade after decade.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 09:36 PM

19. Righteous rant. It's like Putin says, we are just better at hiding who we really have become. It

wasnít always like this.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 10:50 PM

25. Anyone who's getting Social Security

and Medicare and starts spewing scare words like socialism must return all benefits derived from those programs. The bribing class writes the tax code. I benefit from socialized medicine from the Veterans Administration that for the most part does right by me. At least they have an effective patient advocate, something lacking in the private sector.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 11:17 PM

26. K&R.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 11:23 PM

27. Welcome to socialism. K and R

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 12:02 AM

29. K n R !

Thanks for posting!

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 06:32 AM

35. It has nothing to do with "socialism" or "capitalism"

Companies needed bailouts because the "market" was artificially stopped by the shutdowns. When you have an outside force changing/stopping business, bad things happen and have to be accounted for. When you force a corporation to close through no fault of their own, they cannot pay their bills or their employees. So yes, they needed help. Of course some of that help went to fraudsters too, but that happens in massive programs like this.I'm not saying we shouldnt have had the shutdowns, just pointing out that a shutdown is not a normal business obstacle

BUT, it DID show the impact of "just in time" inventory thats been used since the Japanese made it popular decades ago. And how our supply lines could be terrorized by the bad actors we're seeing hack companies. Years ago, a walmart or similar store would have 1-2 weeks supply in the warehouse. Today, much of what we see on the shelves is brought in every 2-3 DAYS instead of weeks. So we see shortages quickly. Not to mention getting too much shit from overseas.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 09:26 AM

39. 200th KnR n/t

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 10:39 AM

40. K&R. That's a keeper.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 10:55 AM

42. Words

Nothing wrong with Democratic Socialism. Virtually all of Scandinavia operates that way. People are free to vote it out but why would most of them do that?

The obscenely rich Richie Riches mostly donít want this.

We operated in a much more fair equitable manner from FDR through Jimmy Carter. Reagan put an end to that, slashing tax rates big time. They have never rebounded to any great extent.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 11:05 AM

43. You're talking about

the utter failure of the capitalist system to provide for its people. It never has and it never will.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 11:29 AM

44. Mr. Field seems to have hit every one of those nails right on the head.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 11:41 AM

45. But they've 40% of the population convinced that "they'll take ma truck and give it to the n***ers!"

The far right does this in every other democracy they're trying to overthrow.

And it works with a lot of people.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 12:29 PM

47. Let's help fabulously wealthy people get even wealthier

to defeat socialism we must stop undeserving people from getting any type of help while suffering under conditions they have no choice or control over.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 12:45 PM

49. I've seen this multiple times in Facebook

And wondered if it was started here!

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 01:20 PM

50. Nailed it!

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 02:52 PM

51. This crisis has one cause: Republicans, greedy, selfish, mean Republicans.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 03:07 PM

52. Crony Capitalism at it's finest hour?



Super greedy power mad elites shitting on the rest, what place!

Splitting into multiple countries might be the best option, IK GLWT!





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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 12:12 PM

55. He sure did nail it.

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