HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » They are bad faith actors...

Sat Jun 26, 2021, 05:40 AM

They are bad faith actors. Period.


Graphic mine

On both sides of the pond it is the same. Right wing policy is all just really nasty theatre, that enthrals those in the stalls. You cannot debate smoke and mirrors. You cannot defeat by logic, policy built on dramaturgy.




11 replies, 2622 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 11 replies Author Time Post
Reply They are bad faith actors. Period. (Original post)
Soph0571 Jun 2021 OP
Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2021 #1
Baitball Blogger Jun 2021 #4
Jim__ Jun 2021 #2
Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2021 #5
gab13by13 Jun 2021 #8
Alice Kramden Jun 2021 #10
bucolic_frolic Jun 2021 #3
Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2021 #6
The Magistrate Jun 2021 #7
smirkymonkey Jun 2021 #9
FM123 Jun 2021 #11

Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sat Jun 26, 2021, 05:56 AM

1. Related old saying: You cant reason a person out of something they were never reasoned into. . . nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 26, 2021, 07:12 AM

4. Good one.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sat Jun 26, 2021, 06:24 AM

2. No, I will not debate you

From Laurie Penny's essay - from September 2018 - that contains the quote cited in the OP:

Every day, people on the internet ask why I won’t “debate” some self-actualizing gig-economy fascist or other, as if formal, public debate were the only way to steer public conversation. If you won’t debate, the argument goes, you’re an enemy of free speech. You’re basically no better than a Nazi, and certainly far worse than any of the actual Nazis muttering about not being allowed to preach racism from prestigious pulpits. Well-meaning liberals insist that “sunlight is the best disinfectant,” anti-fascists disagree, the far right orders more popcorn, and round and round we go on the haunted carousel of western liberal thought until we’re all queasy.

This bad-faith argument is a repeating refrain of this low, dishonest decade, and this month it built to another crescendo. In the U.S., The New Yorker bowed to public pressure and disinvited Steve Bannon, Trump’s neo-nationalist former chief strategist, from its literary festival. And in the U.K., The Economist chose to do the opposite.

I’m accidentally responsible for a very small amount of the fuss here. I was due to speak at the Economist’s Open Future festival, where Bannon was scheduled to be interviewed by the editor in chief directly after the “future of MeToo” panel I’d be on with journalists Laura Bates and Ally Fogg. My note to The Economist, in part:

To speak personally, my opposition to Bannon’s place at this conference has nothing to do with wishing to see him silenced — that would be infeasible as well as illiberal.

I’ve spent much of the past five years hearing out and attempting to debate people like Bannon, and in my experience it only emboldens and legitimizes them. As far as I am concerned, I am not interested in hearing those arguments again.


Bill Maher loves to talk about free speech on his program, and, when he does, he usually has on a guest who completely agrees with him. I'd really like to see him discuss the issue with someone like Laurie Penny.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jim__ (Reply #2)

Sat Jun 26, 2021, 07:28 AM

5. The problem is it is never a real debate, per OP. They lie, misrepresent facts, use fallacies


They gish-gallop. They spew out a half-dozen mistruths and half-truths and lies in one 30 second rant and then there is no time to address more than one or two, so the rest of the garbage just sits there and is accepted in the minds of the gullible.

I see the gullible "fellow travellers" on RW sites frequently when I go there. Someone will say something completely bogus like "Fauci has an investment stake in coffin makers" and another person will post "I didn't know that; good to know" and then they will post it on other threads as if it were fact.

It is confirmation bias writ large.

They use fallacious debating tactics. They divert with what-aboutism. They prop up strawmen and knock them down. They quote out of context and edit videos out of context.

There is just not enough time in almost all "debates" to shoot down all the bogus debating tactic and falsehoods. Thus it is not worth wrestling with the pigs.

It requires a thorough point-by-point debunking. But that ends up being a long written piece which the RW is more likely to skip as "too long; did not read".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #5)

Sat Jun 26, 2021, 07:40 AM

8. These snake oil salesmen

are good at what they do, and they have a bigger platform than the back of a covered wagon, they have the MSM. I may have paid the barker at the carnival a quarter to go see the bearded lady when I was a young lad, one time, but today's barkers get people to go back into that tent over and over again.

Critical thinking is one thing, but not even having common sense is another.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #5)

Sat Jun 26, 2021, 08:02 AM

10. Agree, as you stated

"They use fallacious debating tactics" - plus all the tricks you mentioned, and the media expands the reach of their lies

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sat Jun 26, 2021, 07:11 AM

3. Yes, we have to create logic theater by pounding the table so to speak

Emphasis, repetition, shouting, talking points, concerted effort by thought leaders. It is something in which Democrats do not excel.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 26, 2021, 07:30 AM

6. Counter-propaganda succeeds when is targetted to audience, short, on point, true, & fast to respond.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sat Jun 26, 2021, 07:39 AM

7. Never Saw It Said So Well, Ma'am

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sat Jun 26, 2021, 07:54 AM

9. +1000

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sat Jun 26, 2021, 08:28 AM

11. Yep.

Bad faith actors performing theatre.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread