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Thu Jul 1, 2021, 07:56 AM

 

It's a BFD that Trump Org and not Trump himself is getting indicted today

Lots of folk are disappointed that today's indictment is going after the Trump business and not Trump personally, believing that this is somehow letting Trump off the hook. But that's not the case. And, in fact, this is an even bigger deal than targeting Trump himself right now, for a couple of reasons.

First, the Trump Org IS Trump. There is no light nor air between him and his business. As some observers have pointed out over the years, the Trump companies aren't some large conglomerates with tentacles everywhere and complex layers of management and staff. This is a pretty rinky dink operation consisting of just a handful of people - Trump, his grifter kids and a few hangers on. They operate out of offices on one floor of Trump tower that look more like the back of store than an international business concern, people shouting at each other down the hall and wandering in and out of each other's offices.

Going after Trump companies IS going after Trump.

Moreover, given how raggedy this organization seems to operate, it's unlikely that they took the correct steps to insulate Trump and his team from liability for their actions done in the name of the company. it probably won't be long before the prosecutors and court "pierce the corporate veil" that would normally protect individual corporate owners from personal liability.

In addition, this case is going to cause as much trouble, angst, and suck up as much time and money as any prosecution against him personally - probably more, because he won't be able to get away with the games he plays when fighting personal battles.

Also, Trump's entire ego and brand are wrapped up in his business. He's gotten very good at making any attempts to go after him personally as a witchhunt, done for political purposes and because he's such a untouchably brilliant businessman, that's all they've got, supposedly. This indictment is going to put a lie to all of that. He's not only going to be publicly exposed as a fraud (indeed, the case apparently is based on fraud), but the world will see what a hot mess his business actually is.

AND the best part is that this isn't over. While he's fighting to protect his company, prosecutors are still laying the groundwork to prosecute him individually. And the mess they expose in the corporate case will only make it harder for him. So he's got his hands completely full and when they come after Trump personally, he'll have an even bigger fight on his hands.

This is going to be good ...

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Reply It's a BFD that Trump Org and not Trump himself is getting indicted today (Original post)
StarfishSaver Jul 2021 OP
Bucky Jul 2021 #1
StarfishSaver Jul 2021 #2
True Blue American Jul 2021 #7
Volaris Jul 2021 #41
True Blue American Jul 2021 #45
Volaris Jul 2021 #50
llmart Jul 2021 #69
diverdownjt Jul 2021 #139
StarfishSaver Jul 2021 #140
niyad Jul 2021 #3
TheBlackAdder Jul 2021 #29
Volaris Jul 2021 #44
Rebl2 Jul 2021 #68
tirebiter Jul 2021 #4
colorado_ufo Jul 2021 #47
StarfishSaver Jul 2021 #62
Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2021 #87
StarfishSaver Jul 2021 #90
Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2021 #92
StarfishSaver Jul 2021 #94
Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2021 #95
StarfishSaver Jul 2021 #99
Mr.Bill Jul 2021 #109
StarfishSaver Jul 2021 #112
Mr.Bill Jul 2021 #114
Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2021 #130
True Blue American Jul 2021 #59
Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2021 #128
Ilsa Jul 2021 #5
llashram Jul 2021 #30
ShazzieB Jul 2021 #38
momta Jul 2021 #48
llashram Jul 2021 #100
lunatica Jul 2021 #104
Delmette2.0 Jul 2021 #46
Ilsa Jul 2021 #55
wnylib Jul 2021 #108
brer cat Jul 2021 #6
gab13by13 Jul 2021 #8
NJCher Jul 2021 #20
colorado_ufo Jul 2021 #49
Sherman A1 Jul 2021 #53
Dan Jul 2021 #74
Sherman A1 Jul 2021 #120
ShazzieB Jul 2021 #126
Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2021 #132
MiHale Jul 2021 #9
Wounded Bear Jul 2021 #10
StarfishSaver Jul 2021 #14
c-rational Jul 2021 #63
lastlib Jul 2021 #77
wnylib Jul 2021 #110
Johnny2X2X Jul 2021 #11
romana Jul 2021 #12
StarfishSaver Jul 2021 #16
dawg day Jul 2021 #22
StarfishSaver Jul 2021 #23
dawg day Jul 2021 #33
Marcuse Jul 2021 #36
calimary Jul 2021 #71
dawg day Jul 2021 #103
Mopar151 Jul 2021 #107
calimary Jul 2021 #121
sarchasm Jul 2021 #13
lagomorph777 Jul 2021 #31
sarchasm Jul 2021 #93
kentuck Jul 2021 #15
TheRickles Jul 2021 #17
lagomorph777 Jul 2021 #32
Buns_of_Fire Jul 2021 #18
calimary Jul 2021 #81
BillyBobBrilliant Jul 2021 #19
johnthewoodworker Jul 2021 #21
StarfishSaver Jul 2021 #27
Blanks Jul 2021 #57
speak easy Jul 2021 #125
StarfishSaver Jul 2021 #127
TheRickles Jul 2021 #64
Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2021 #135
twodogsbarking Jul 2021 #24
GrapesOfWrath Jul 2021 #84
wnylib Jul 2021 #111
Diamond_Dog Jul 2021 #25
wnylib Jul 2021 #113
Justice matters. Jul 2021 #133
wnylib Jul 2021 #138
lagomorph777 Jul 2021 #26
llashram Jul 2021 #28
bdamomma Jul 2021 #34
Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2021 #131
bdamomma Jul 2021 #142
Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2021 #143
NurseJackie Jul 2021 #35
True Blue American Jul 2021 #61
Tommy Carcetti Jul 2021 #37
brush Jul 2021 #39
Tiger8 Jul 2021 #40
Sherman A1 Jul 2021 #54
ProfessorGAC Jul 2021 #42
Old Okie Jul 2021 #43
colorado_ufo Jul 2021 #51
wnylib Jul 2021 #115
Dan Jul 2021 #82
wnylib Jul 2021 #116
world wide wally Jul 2021 #52
Goonch Jul 2021 #56
calimary Jul 2021 #86
ProudMNDemocrat Jul 2021 #58
PortTack Jul 2021 #60
BannonsLiver Jul 2021 #65
StarfishSaver Jul 2021 #73
BannonsLiver Jul 2021 #88
IronLionZion Jul 2021 #66
bluestarone Jul 2021 #67
BobTheSubgenius Jul 2021 #70
Warpy Jul 2021 #72
LetMyPeopleVote Jul 2021 #75
StarfishSaver Jul 2021 #79
LetMyPeopleVote Jul 2021 #80
StarfishSaver Jul 2021 #83
LetMyPeopleVote Jul 2021 #89
ZonkerHarris Jul 2021 #76
LetMyPeopleVote Jul 2021 #78
Dan Jul 2021 #85
mcar Jul 2021 #91
LetMyPeopleVote Jul 2021 #96
C Moon Jul 2021 #97
RVN VET71 Jul 2021 #98
flying_wahini Jul 2021 #101
SmartVoter22 Jul 2021 #102
Hortensis Jul 2021 #105
marble falls Jul 2021 #106
Hamlette Jul 2021 #117
StarfishSaver Jul 2021 #118
Hamlette Jul 2021 #119
LetMyPeopleVote Jul 2021 #122
StarfishSaver Jul 2021 #123
LetMyPeopleVote Jul 2021 #124
Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2021 #129
PatrickforB Jul 2021 #134
Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2021 #137
Blue Owl Jul 2021 #136
gordianot Jul 2021 #141

Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 07:59 AM

1. Thanks

Good perspective. I figured this was comparable to a RICO case, where they're gradually working at the chain of command.

You make it sound like it's not that tall a pyramid to climb

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Response to Bucky (Reply #1)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:01 AM

2. I think it's a tall pyramid, but it sounds like they're doing it right and in the right order

 

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #2)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:09 AM

7. Thank you for posting this.

It is the beginning of the end. I agree Trump Org is a small business. Trump made his money off cheating others.

To me it matches the Enron case.

http://www.american-historama.org/1990-present-modern-era/enron-scandal.htm

https://www.britannica.com/event/Enron-scandal

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #7)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 09:15 AM

41. Enron only EMBEZZLED other people's money.. Ken lay never laundered it

For Putins russian Mob-State.

I feel like, this is going to be bigger by at least an order of magnitude.

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Response to Volaris (Reply #41)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 09:25 AM

45. True,

But the results should be the same.

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #45)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 09:32 AM

50. One can hope.

If Trump and his broodlings are destroyed publicly, I actually dont give a fuck if he goes to jail.

His grave will become a public urinal, regardless.

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Response to Volaris (Reply #50)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 10:37 AM

69. And this might just hurry the process for the public urinal.

Trump has never cared about much of anything but money and the so-called prestige he got/gets from it. His name has already been destroyed by being in the public eye 24/7, but now his name won't be worth anything.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #2)

Fri Jul 2, 2021, 05:27 AM

139. Fine...but...if it was me I'd be in jail now and that is the problem we are facing today.

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Response to diverdownjt (Reply #139)

Fri Jul 2, 2021, 05:39 AM

140. Possibly, although not likely - but that's a different issue and beside this point

 

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:01 AM

3. Thank you so much for this information. Makes my day brighter.

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Response to niyad (Reply #3)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:34 AM

29. It also exposes Trump's crimes without a direct assault. This will slowly shape MAGA cult's minds.

.

As they see more and more criming, they will start to loose hope and might accept direct criminal charges later.

They will see Trump for the scammer he is, and how he's built a system to dodge taxes and funnel money.

.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #29)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 09:18 AM

44. I'm preparing myself for their next delusion...Donald had nothing to do with ANY of this...

It was ALL Alan and his hateful, golddigging UNGRATEFUL KIDS, and now the Deep State is using THEIR CRIMES to continue the WitchHunt against The Beloved Dear Leader.

It's all so unfair, dontchaknow....

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #29)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 10:34 AM

68. Unfortunately they

won’t believe it because they are that damaged.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:02 AM

4. Especially since legally corporations are people, too, according to conservative Supreme Court,

Trump in one form or another will be indicted.

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Response to tirebiter (Reply #4)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 09:27 AM

47. This isn't a corporation.

It's the equivalent of a mom-and-pop store on steroids. This is how the mob operates, by employing family only.

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Response to colorado_ufo (Reply #47)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 10:19 AM

62. It is a corporation

 

Actually, it's numerous corporations.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #62)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 11:12 AM

87. Colorado is correct. The Trump Org is a

Private conglomerate with LLCs many of which are set up in Delaware where you don't have to disclose financial info.

The Trump Organization is a group of about 500 business entities of which Donald Trump is the sole or principal owner.[5] Around 250 of these entities use the Trump name.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #87)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 11:15 AM

90. LLCs are corporations

 

"LLC" stands for "limited liability corporation."

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #90)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 11:17 AM

92. Nope. Limited Liability Companies. They are not corporations

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #92)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 11:21 AM

94. I guess you would know

 



But you are right that LLC s are limited liability company - I was typing too fast.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #94)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 11:24 AM

95. True!

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #95)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 11:55 AM

99. There are two Trump Organizations

 

One, Trump Organization, Inc., is a traditional corporation. The other, Trump Organization, LLC, is a limited liability company that may or may not be treated as a corporation depending on numerous factors.

It will be interesting to see if today's indictment is against one or the other or both of these entities.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #99)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 01:49 PM

109. If the case is about giving perks in order to avoid taxes

it's against whoever writes the paychecks.

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #109)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 02:16 PM

112. Two Trump corporations were indicted

 

The Trump Corporation and the Trump payroll corporation are the defendants, along with Weisselberg.

From the indictment:.
The Trump Organization is a trade name that embraces a number of privately held corporate and partnership entities whose beneficial owners include Donald Trump ... One of these entities comprising the Trump organization is the Trump Corporation.
...
Among other things, the Trump Corporation serves as the employer of a group of senior managers of the Trump organization, including Alan Weisselberg.
...
Trump Payroll Corporation is a Trump organization entity with its principal place of business in Trump Tower. Trump Payroll Corporation is run by Trump Corporation employees and functions primarily to process payroll for Trump Organization staff, including Weisselberg and others employed by the Trump corporation

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/read-trump-org-weisselberg-indicted-over-alleged-15-year-long-fraud-scheme



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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #112)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 02:22 PM

114. Exactly.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #99)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:34 PM

130. Sorry hard to believe someone who said they were

a corporate lawyer and didn't know what LLC stood for. But, no hard feelings...we all screw up once in a while carry on!

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Response to tirebiter (Reply #4)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 09:54 AM

59. Bingo!

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #59)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 07:47 PM

128. Exactly!! The two entities that are incorporated in this

suit are chicken feed compared to all the other entities. But they are related to payroll... Expenses when paid out of one and source of funds when govt paid the other. There are literally hundreds of LLCs and partnerships. It's all fascinating if you're a numbers nerd. But, of course, without tax returns, lots of blanks.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:05 AM

5. I advise patience for everyone.

I don't think trump will drop dead before the worst hits him, including Malignia divorcing him to preserve her nest egg.

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #5)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:39 AM

30. "malignia"

and to think some called her a helpful and vibrant First Lady. She did nothing except destroy the colour and beauty of the White House gardens...and that coat she wore at the border, the height of mean. Utterly forgettable is she...

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Response to llashram (Reply #30)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 09:00 AM

38. Vibrant? VIBRANT!? 🤣

Last edited Thu Jul 1, 2021, 07:14 PM - Edit history (2)

*choke splutter*

Of all the words I would NEVER have expected anyone to apply to her, that takes the cake!

Vibrant means "energetic, exciting, and full of enthusiasm." She has all the energy, excitement, and enthusiasm of a bad cold.

Just more evidence that MAGAts really do live in an alternate universe!

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Response to ShazzieB (Reply #38)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 09:29 AM

48. She's trump's idea of "vibrant"

With enough makeup and the right light she can look kind of pretty on the outside, but inside she's a full diaper.

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Response to momta (Reply #48)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 12:09 PM

100. so true

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Response to ShazzieB (Reply #38)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 01:01 PM

104. She seethes with hateful disdain

Especially for all of us. ALL of us.

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #5)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 09:26 AM

46. I think that his (T****) wife will be included in the Inauguration fraud.

Her friend has already told stories and those can't be the whole story.

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Response to Delmette2.0 (Reply #46)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 09:42 AM

55. Won't that be fabulous to have nearly the whole

family wearing orange?

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #5)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 01:47 PM

108. That nest egg is probably cracking apart right now.

Even if she left him now, there wouldn't be much for her and her Trump hatchling.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:08 AM

6. Thank you for this post.

K&R

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:10 AM

8. Everything is going according to plan.

When Cy Vance brought Pomerantz on the team I smiled a little. The main reason why it is critical to go after the organization first is because they are also going after Weisselberg first, and IMO it is crucial to get him to flip, once he does, MF45 is toast.

Yes MF45 ran his organization like a mom and pop pizza parlor but MF45 is not stupid, many of his projects were in his kids' names giving him protection. If Weisselberg's attorney was provided by MF45 then Weisselberg is in a world of hurt because that attorney will advice Weisselberg to do whatever is in MF45's best interests.

MF45 is a mob boss, he is not stupid, he insulated himself from guilt, with that said, if he loses his consigliere, he is done.

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Response to gab13by13 (Reply #8)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:24 AM

20. I think he's stupid

It doesn't take intelligence to do that (projects were in his kids' names giving him protection).

If he's so smart he wouldn't be in the position he's in.

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Response to NJCher (Reply #20)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 09:31 AM

49. I always knew he wouldn't hesitate to throw his kids under the bus.

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Response to colorado_ufo (Reply #49)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 09:39 AM

53. The boys, Yes

Ivanka I doubt will go under the bus and somehow pinning something on her, would in my opinion just about break him.

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Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #53)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 10:56 AM

74. This is mean, but I suspect that Ivanka

Will claim spousal immunity from testifying against daddy.

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Response to Dan (Reply #74)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 05:16 PM

120. You may indeed be correct

I don’t think you are being mean at all. If the shoe fits……..

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Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #120)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 07:16 PM

126. She could try.

But I really can't imagine a judge going along with it.

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Response to gab13by13 (Reply #8)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:49 PM

132. How do you know that entities are in kids names? Been

Looking at his financial disclosures and it only shows the percentage HE is in for for each of the hundreds of entities.

Need another data source?

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:12 AM

9. KnR...nt

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:12 AM

10. The organization is what props Donald up...

take that out and you kill much of Trump's finances and protections.

I'm impatient like a lot of you guys, but the Yoda quote is applicable.

Patience.

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #10)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:19 AM

14. Exactly

 

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #10)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 10:20 AM

63. +1

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #10)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 10:57 AM

77. +1

tRump Org. is going to be shredded by the time this is over. No bank is going to lend it money, existing loans will be called, assets will have to be sold at fire prices....I think eventually, Donny will be forced (before he goes to prison...) to live in one of Jared's tenements, with PEONS, and that will break him. The stress of all the prosecutions and the threat of prison will crush him physically, mentally, and emotionally--I foresee him being a shell in a cell, and that is profoundly gratifying!

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Response to lastlib (Reply #77)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 02:01 PM

110. Banks already don't give him loans.

The Russian mob does. Will be interesting to see how that works out. They can find other money launderers, but what about the money he has received from them? Did they ecpect it back or was it just a political and business investment that they take a loss on?

Will they be providing him with "business" advice on handling his mess? Legal advice? Money for lawyers? Or drop him? "Donald who?"

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:13 AM

11. Let's see what they have

I still think it's more likely that he is never charged in relation to this. They're going to stall this for years.

And Trump will never do a day in jail, of that I am sure of.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:15 AM

12. Thanks for the perspective

CNN is all about how weaksauce all this is. The media seems determined to spin this as a win for Trump.

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Response to romana (Reply #12)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:20 AM

16. And if they had gone after Trump first, CNN at all would be demanding to know

 

why they were letting his business evade accountability.

Same old same old ...

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Response to romana (Reply #12)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:24 AM

22. They're stretching. No way this is good for Trump

It could be worse for him, of course... but that might be coming. Trump org's crimes have always been dealt with civilly or administratively before. This is new.... they are indicted.

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Response to dawg day (Reply #22)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:28 AM

23. Exactly

 

I really doubt Trump woke up this morning thinking "Oh, thank God they're only going after my company! This is working out great for me!"

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #23)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:45 AM

33. Did you hear him on Fox last night, rambling about paint.

Over and over, he kept saying, "it needs to be painted. We need to paint it. It's starting to rust." He was completely losing it. He's spooked.

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Response to dawg day (Reply #33)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:50 AM

36. Rosebud.

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Response to dawg day (Reply #33)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 10:47 AM

71. What needs to be painted?

I don’t watch Pox.

I WON’T watch Pox.

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Response to calimary (Reply #71)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 12:21 PM

103. The wall. The wall. It's rusting!

He blames the rusting on Biden, not of course on himself spending $10B on a wall that apparently rusts in a few months.

Painting the wall, he kept saying, is the important thing.

He's really losing it.

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Response to dawg day (Reply #103)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 01:44 PM

107. Self coating steel - common in the application

Oxides from a fairly tight coating, if kept dry.

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Response to dawg day (Reply #103)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 05:32 PM

121. Wonder if his hotels are built as carelessly?

Just paint over it and nobody will know…

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:16 AM

13. When RICO's invited to the party...

...it's time to stock up on

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Response to sarchasm (Reply #13)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:42 AM

31. And plenty of this:

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #31)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 11:19 AM

93. Theme song? ...

R.I.C.O.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:19 AM

15. "There is no light nor air between him and his business"

Right on!

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:22 AM

17. "So he's got his hands completely full..."

And it doesn't take much to do that, does it?

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Response to TheRickles (Reply #17)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:42 AM

32. Especially when one hand is always down his pants.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:22 AM

18. My only regret is that I'm going to have to buy more popcorn.

Oh, and beer.

Thank you for this post counseling patience. As I think the Bible says somewhere, "everybody but trump shall inherit the earth."

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Response to Buns_of_Fire (Reply #18)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 10:59 AM

81. Don't forget chocolate!

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:23 AM

19. Not to mention

That the lenders that hold notes on the 'company' will want to call in their notes before defaulting, and going forward no one will want to lend a feloneous company a dime.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:24 AM

21. I truly don't believe any legal stuff is impactful until a Republican/Nazi is jailed.

Otherwise this is just more legal bravado with no result.

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Response to johnthewoodworker (Reply #21)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:33 AM

27. What you call "legal bravado without result"

 

is the predicate necessary for anyone to go to jail. Without it, The result you're seeking is impossible.

So while you may dismiss this as mere "legal bravado, I call it "getting the job done."

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #27)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 09:47 AM

57. It's necessary that it go this way...

If the federal government were to go directly for Trump himself, the republicans would forever go directly after every Democratic Party president as soon as they leave office (they probably will anyway) but the Manhattan DA’s office investigating Trump for crimes at the lowest level of the government and turning it over to the state for state crimes and finding guilt and then the federal government
Investigating federal crimes after the Trump org has already been found guilty of fraud and tax evasion at the city, county and state level looks like the next obvious step.

It’s important that it not look like a witch hunt by his political opponent. When the investigation occurs at the county level, it’s clearly arms length from the current administration.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #27)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 07:08 PM

125. 'Without it, the result you're seeking is a lynching.'

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Response to speak easy (Reply #125)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 07:17 PM

127. Touche

 

You are so right ...

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Response to johnthewoodworker (Reply #21)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 10:24 AM

64. I was thinking Gaetz would be the first one across the finish line.

But now Jordan is closing fast because of the press he's getting from the Clooney documentary. Coming down the home stretch, it looks like Trump is surging to the front again. Can he hold onto his lead as they near the finish?!?!

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Response to TheRickles (Reply #64)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 09:59 PM

135. Very cute :)

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:30 AM

24. Anything that annoys yam face

is great.

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Response to twodogsbarking (Reply #24)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 11:04 AM

84. Yam Face

My new favorite name for TFG, 😂

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Response to GrapesOfWrath (Reply #84)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 02:15 PM

111. Hey, I LIKE yams (sweet potatoes).

What we call yams are actually sweet potatoes. Yams are yellow. Sweet potatoes are orange.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:31 AM

25. I suppose he's going to double down on the "witch hunt"

and “political persecution “ rhetoric now and this will elevate his status to martyr in the eyes of his supporters.

I was astonished that when the fact came out about how little in taxes he paid, it didn’t seem to hurt his image at all.

So I’m really, really, hopeful we’ll hear some good hard irrefutable evidence coming out of this prosecution. Thank you Starfish.... I’m more encouraged now.

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Response to Diamond_Dog (Reply #25)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 02:21 PM

113. I wonder how far the investigations

will eventually reach. Will his Russian friends feel threatened? Send him a cup of tea? Will Donnie fall out of a window? Maybe a double win for the Russians. Get rid of their pumpkin faced launderer and push the rumor that he was murdered by his American political opponents.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #113)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 09:04 PM

133. Secret Service agents protect former prezs.

Until they rot in jail or sing kumbaya.

Tax dollars he never paid pay for that.

Imagine that.

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Response to Justice matters. (Reply #133)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 10:17 PM

138. Jack Kennedy had SS protection, too.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:31 AM

26. "correct steps to insulate Trump" - You mean signing things as "David Dennison" isn't good enough?

Uh-oh!

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:34 AM

28. this

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:47 AM

34. Thank you Starfish

gives us all some hope that this POS will be going down, cut the head off the serpent I like to say.

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Response to bdamomma (Reply #34)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:43 PM

131. Really?

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #131)

Tue Jul 6, 2021, 08:12 PM

142. Well

a person can think positive can't she?

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Response to bdamomma (Reply #142)

Tue Jul 6, 2021, 08:46 PM

143. :)

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:47 AM

35. This is a wonderful way to start my day! Happy! Happy! Happy!

Thank you! I hope it's a good day for you too!

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #35)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 10:00 AM

61. It is!

My eye specialist did a happy dance when she checked the results of my laser eye Happy, happy dance surgery.

So now I am doing my happy dance once again!

McCarthy threaten to remove committees of anyone who joined the 1/6 Insurrection. Pelosi just named Liz Chaney!

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:55 AM

37. Without a doubt, Trump (and his ilk) will go after the judge on the case.

And that could potentially create further legal problems in and of itself.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 09:02 AM

39. Woohoo. I see another bankruptcy in the works. Who wants...

to patronize, do business with or lend money to an indicted organization?

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 09:06 AM

40. A bankrupt Trump family can't protect themselves

 

TFG corporate wing is a house of cards.

Just the fines, restitution & interest charges for significant tax fraud conducted over several decades should blast them into oblivion.

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Response to Tiger8 (Reply #40)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 09:41 AM

54. He can always grift the "base"

and set up legal defense funds for his "persecution".

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 09:15 AM

42. Agreed On All Points

He IS the company.
That corporate veil is cellophane with holes in it.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 09:16 AM

43. Trump ORG

Trump Corp is a very small mob based business, just Trump, his kids, and a few worker bees. They are going after the weakest links which I hope pays off but the code of silence is strong and the consequences for informing are high so we will have to wait and see.

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Response to Old Okie (Reply #43)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 09:36 AM

51. Yes. He might call in an assist from his friend Putin.

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Response to colorado_ufo (Reply #51)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 02:26 PM

115. I've been wondering about that.

Will Puti help him or toss him out of a window as a liability?

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Response to Old Okie (Reply #43)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 11:00 AM

82. The consequences for informing is high - when you have a hit team.

I don’t see Donnie filling that role.

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Response to Dan (Reply #82)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 02:29 PM

116. But Donnie has friends and business associates

who can fill that role to protect their own interests and investments.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 09:38 AM

52. One thing I know for sure;

He won't have a jury of Republican Senators judging him.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 09:47 AM

56. ;-{)

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Response to Goonch (Reply #56)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 11:11 AM

86. Love this!

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 09:52 AM

58. Trump's whole IMAGE and EGO are tied to the Trump Org

For if the Trump Organization goes down. Trump goes down with it.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 09:55 AM

60. Thx for the great breakdown

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 10:27 AM

65. We'll see how well this ages

My guess is about as well as all the breathless predictions about what Mueller was going to do to Trump. I get a Lucy with the football vibe.

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #65)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 10:54 AM

73. It will age better than "Pelosi will never impeach" and "Trump companies won't get indicted" claims

 

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #73)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 11:12 AM

88. LULZ

That’s not saying much given that you made the prediction after he was indicted. Not exactly a high bar.

There were very few of the predictions you mentioned, anyway. The overwhelming majority were optimistic, perhaps unrealistically so.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 10:29 AM

66. As long as it damages his brand and makes him lose money

it's good!

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 10:32 AM

67. Always look forward to you're posts!

TY!!

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 10:41 AM

70. Allen Weisselberg just surrendered this morning.

This implies that investigators and prosecutors have not been in close or prolonged contact with him up to now. Hopefully, they will now be putting the screws to him in an attempt to get him to flip. At the age of 73, how much time is he going to be willing to do to protect Il Douche?

AW is estimated to have a personal net worth of 10 figures - it's not like he needs the job, or a pension.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 10:48 AM

72. Kicking the money machine out from under him is great

Unlike most here, I don't want him in prison. He'd be a god inside the prison and a martyr outside it.

Nope, I want him isolated and poor. I can't think of worse punishments for that man.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 10:56 AM

75. I agree that this is a BFD

The trump organization lenders may soon take action. Every corporate loan agreement contains a representation that the borrower is in compliance with the law and in some cases this representation may be qualified by material adverse effect language to the effect that there is a breach of this representation only if the breach of the law has a material adverse effect ("MAE" on the borrower and its business. Each loan agreement also contains a covenant that the borrower is complying with the law and this covenant may be subject to MAE language. In addition the borrower normally has to notify the lenders if there is a material adverse change in the business or prospect of the Borrower.

For term loan agreements, the borrower has to submit regular financial statements and a certificate signed by a senior employee of the borrower that all representations and warranties made in credit agreement are true and correct and that the borrower has complied with covenants. If the lender is a federally insured institution, there are criminal penalties for false certifications to an insure financial institution. For revolving loans, the borrower has to submit a certificate for each draw on the loan containing the above certifications. The Manhattan DA may not enforce this requirement but the SDNY could bring suit if they want against anyone who signed a certification to a federally insured lender. The trump CFO needs to assume that if the trump organization is convicted, then the SDNY could also bring charges against the CFO for false statements made in loan certifications.

The trump organization lenders have the right to cut off future draws under any revolver and may call the term loans. Most agreements provide that a breach of covenant such as compliance with laws or lack of a material adverse change are defaults allowing the lender to call the loans. There may be a cure period for covenant breaches but this is the type of breach that cannot be cured. Weak borrowers are sometimes have to agree to an insecurity clause which allows the lender to call the loan if the lender deems itself insecure.

The counsel of the trump organization lenders will be reading today's indictment and they may either cut off loans under any revolver or call a term loan.

This will be fun to watch

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Reply #75)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 10:57 AM

79. Great point!

 

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #79)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 10:58 AM

80. I am corporate lawyer and my son is a biglaw partner doing corporate finance

My son teases me about loan agreements that are less than 200 pages.

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Reply #80)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 11:02 AM

83. I started out doing corporate law. Those 200 page bond docs like to have killed me

 

Are you old enough to know what redlining a document actually means? Yikes!

God bless you for sticking with it. I couldn't do it...

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #83)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 11:14 AM

89. Yes I am old enough to have had to manually redlined documents

I also practiced when 4 minutes a page fax machines were considered state of the art. We were happy to get a machine that did one page a minute. Do you remember floppy disks for word processing?

Two of my kids are lawyers and they tease me that I took the bar exam on stone tablets. I did use blue books and had to try to write neatly. Before the internet, you got post cards on your bar results unless you have a friend clerking on the state supreme court. I took the Feb. bar and so my friends had not started yet. My first firm had a former president of the state bar as a partner. I got word that results were out and ran to the apartment to get results. There was a paper memo out to everyone before I got back to the office on the bar results announcing that I was the high grade for my law school and one point off the state high grade. Past bar presidents got the result faster than I could.

I love computer redlining and being able to send documents by email.

I like to negotiate and have worked on some fun deals over the years

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 10:56 AM

76. a lot of lawyers are about to get stiffed on their bills.

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Response to ZonkerHarris (Reply #76)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 10:57 AM

78. No good law firm would represent TFG without a large retainer

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 11:06 AM

85. Let justice be done, both legally and financially.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 11:15 AM

91. Kick for reality

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 11:49 AM

96. Trump Organization Charges Magnify Risks of Debt Refinancing

TFG has a ton of debt that needs to be refinance and this indictment will make the refinancing of that debt more difficult https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-01/trump-organization-charges-magnify-risks-of-debt-refinancing

Now, in the latest twist, the business and its longtime Chief Financial Officer Allen Weisselberg, 73, are facing charges relating to tax crimes. The exact charges Weisselberg is facing will be unsealed on Thursday, but are expected to involve unpaid taxes on benefits extended to him. The move by Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance could have long-term repercussions on Trump’s ability to keep the business afloat and refinance debt.....

Commercial loan covenants don’t typically mention criminal charges in part because they’re such a rarity for businesses, but also because charges are just that -- charges, not convictions, according to professor Adam Levitin at Georgetown University, who specializes in bankruptcy and commercial law.

A spokesman for Deutsche Bank AG, a favored lender for the Trump Organization, declined to comment on how the charges may impact the loans they have coming due.

Even if the loan documents don’t speak directly to criminal charges, sophisticated lenders -- and their lawyers -- can find a way to push the issue. Federal courts are no stranger to lengthy, expensive fights over what gives rise to defaults under commercial lending agreements.

“Regardless of the specific provisions in loan documents, when a lender wants to cut ties with a corporation that’s in trouble -- particularly in trouble with the law -- the lender will often find a way to call a default and get out of dodge,” said David Prager, a restructuring and financial adviser at Kroll, who wasn’t speaking about the Trump situation specifically.

It may also be harder to find banks willing to refinance the debt down the road -- most banks would balk at extending a loan to a company subject to a criminal indictment.

This will be fun to watch

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 11:52 AM

97. Whatever happens, our-dumbass-unAmerican-bought-out Supreme Court will change it to favor the rich.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 11:55 AM

98. So far the case has moved forward with all deliberate speed.

But the process has been slow, painstakingly slow. The prosecution hired forensic accounting experts to sift through what amounted to more than a million pages of documents to make sure they showed criminality. If they did their job, Weisselberg is going to jail for a long time.

But the beauty of it is the old crook can cut a break if he spills on Loser-45 and the members of his crime family (Ivanka the Luscious, Dope Fiend Donnie, Eric the Unloved, and, of course, Jared the Fiend.)

Not time for popcorn yet, but soon. I’m interested in seeing whether the old fool will snitch on Flubbo-45 or just his kids.

I’m reminded of Michael Cohen’s claim that the Fat Man always kept his hands clean even while “indicating" orders to his underlings to do crimes for him. Never a specific “I want you to do such and such.” Always more like “Now this, of course, would be profitable if only somebody -- wink, wink towards his children -- would do such and such, but of course it would be -- wink, wink -- wrong to do so."

We’ll see very soon whether the ex-President successfully cushioned himself from indictment, trial, and imprisonment.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 12:10 PM

101. Thanks for saying it so well!


And you are correct; this is going to be good!

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 12:16 PM

102. When Trump looks at his checking account...

and sees that everything was forzen is something I'll be happy to see.
And I am sure even Trump's loyalist supporters are pissed he's a tax cheat.
Being a tax cheat in America, is one of the worst offences which our society despises.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 01:11 PM

105. :) Yep. We saw this coming in 2015 if he didn't back off from scrutiny.

Terrible what happened from then to now.

But, as you say...!

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 01:19 PM

106. It ain't over yet. Digging through the layers takes patience and time. Trump will be indicted ...

... by October. There is a large group of stooges who are getting the message:

1. 45 does not love you. He will personally put the one kid who supported him the whole time under the bus.

2. 45 did nothing for you. He does nothing for you. He will do nothing for you.

3. It's time to stop voting against your own interests.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 02:48 PM

117. I don't think they will pierce the corporate veil but they will take Donny's deposition.

The sheer joy of getting him under oath and required by law to answer questions? Heaven to me.

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Response to Hamlette (Reply #117)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 02:53 PM

118. ...

 

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #118)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 02:58 PM

119. that has been my fantasy for 5 long years.

as a former trial attorney, I've spent many hours questioning him in my head. "Isn't it true . . . "

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 05:59 PM

122. Kurt Eichenwald has some good observations about the effect of this indictment on the trump org

Kurt does not see how the Trump Org survives this without some sort of corrupt deal overseas. I tend to agree















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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Reply #122)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 06:18 PM

123. Great read. Thanks! My answer to "what the hell took so long?"

 

Just look at how complex and difficult to unravel this Byzantine scheme called the Trump Organization. It's a mess. Layer upon layer of subterfuge, obfuscation, entangled with fraud, grift and greed. It's taken years for the best law enforcement and forensic investigators to get just a little something to go on and even now, they're nowhere near the bottom.

I think what took so long is that, until Trump became president, he was seen as small potatoes - a petty conman who, for the most part, hurt only other greedy people and cons. They just didn't have the time or resources to devote to dealing with him.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #123)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 06:28 PM

124. Without tax returns and more importantly tax workpapers

In the workpapers were spreadsheets showing how much as paid to Allen outside his normal compensation and how this was deducted from his taxable compensation. Accountants work papers are not subject to the attorney client privilege and can be very helpful

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Reply #124)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 08:20 PM

129. Exactly. So much is missing. Wonder what NY got

just the FGs tax returns?

And admit out of the loop... Why are they saying this will do it ALL in? Jeez, only a million in income in question. Taxes on that could be paid out of any entitie's petty cash. Again, been out of loop. Sure this question had been asked and answered.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 09:59 PM

134. I like your perspective. As much as I feel Trump ought to be on the dock

for treason, massive corruption while in office, criminal activities, racketeering, and a host of other crimes, I never really felt like that would happen. Those who call the shots in this country wouldn't allow it because too many of them feel that while Trump definitely deserves it, to try and convict him as he deserves would set too dangerous a precedent.

Or something like that.

But going after his organization and draining its coffers, causing loans to be called in and so on - well, that won't quite be as satisfying as watching Trump perp-walked into a federal prison in an orange jumpsuit, it will be nearly as satisfying to see Trump and his disgusting children broke and bankrupt.

Can you imagine Ivanka, Eric and Don Jr. without the giant safety net of family wealth trying to make it like the rest of us? We would be looking at drug addiction, petty crime and all the rest of the horrible spiral down to rock bottom.

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Response to PatrickforB (Reply #134)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 10:02 PM

137. Michael Cohen said kids are next :)

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Thu Jul 1, 2021, 10:01 PM

136. Suck it, Slobfather

[img][/img]

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Fri Jul 2, 2021, 05:56 AM

141. Everyday Trump draws breath is another day he commits another crime.

Laws, social norms, empathy mean nothing to him.

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