It's back to more careful Covid precaution basics for me, though I am fully vaccinated (Moderna).

[phylny]

Last edited Mon Jul 19, 2021, 10:35 AM - Edit history (1)

Oh Saturday I brought a fully vaccinated (Moderna) friend of mine dinner as she, her husband, and her elderly mother-in-law are moving from one home to another a few miles away. We talked a bit outside and then went inside to drop the food. I’d guess we were inside for ten minutes. We hugged and I left.

She called yesterday and said her brother-in-law, who was living with them briefly because of a bad fall and subsequent knee injury, tested positive for Covid prior to surgery yesterday. He was also fully vaccinated (Moderna) and is asymptomatic.

I’ve been wearing either an N95 or KN95 mask to the grocery store, etc. but didn’t think of wearing it Saturday for my drop-off at her house.

We are expecting our first grandchild at the end of July and my husband and I are planning to be tested for Covid two or three days before we are supposed to go stay at our daughter and son-in-law’s house to help with their pets and then help when they come home from the hospital. We assume we will be wearing a mask around them and the baby when they come home.

[calimary]

1. Good luck!

I never go out of the house of without a mask. I wear ‘em on a lanyard that I can easily pull up over my face if needed.

And if not needed, then they’re a “necklace”!

[Wounded Bear]

2. Interesting strategy...

I have my vax card on a lanyard, maybe I car rig something like that in tandem.

I mask up in stores, and generally anywhere indoors still.

[moonscape]

56. I use these for my masks

https://www.vogmask.com/products/head-strap-accessory

They’re great.

[Wounded Bear]

57. Looks like the same thing folks use on eyeglasses...

or at least very similar.

[moonscape]

58. Yes, but shorter so the mask stays around

the neck vs hanging down.

[StarryNite]

52. I use lanyards for my masks too.

They're great!

[calimary]

64. By now, I regard them as a fashion accessory, as well as a safeguard for everyone's health.

[flying_wahini]

3. I'm sure your daughter appreciates you wearing the mask and getting early testing.

Erring on the side of caution is always a good thing.
Hoping everything goes well for you all.

[phylny]

4. Thank you - a jolt back to reality!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

5. Why not test today? Just curious. I would be dying to know ASAP

If someone told me I was exposed.

[phylny]

8. That's a good question, and I'll need to think about it.

I am not even sure my friend is infected. I also don't know how quickly I'd show infection.

Mostly I want a test close to when the baby is born. But you have certainly given me something to consider.

[Ms. Toad]

17. Tests are still free

I'd test maybe tomorrow, and again a few days later. Remember, it's not just the baby you could spread COVID to - and knowing you are positive could help motivate you to be extra cautious.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

25. CVS still wide open on testing available.. fyi

[Ms. Toad]

26. When my spouse decided to get up close and personal

Unmasked, in the face of an unmasked woman with severe breathing problems, who was ultimately carted off to the hospital, I insisted she get tested. She was able to get in immediately.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

29. Good!! I think I've even heard of some places you can just walk in

[Liberty Belle]

10. If you test too soon with no symptoms you can get a false negative.

When we were exposed we tested twice several days apart, per doctor's instructions. Thankfully neither my husband nor I got COVID even though our grown son, who lives with us, had a mild case back in January before he was eligible for the vaccine.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

12. Yup..

[LisaL]

21. If tested too early after exposure, it won't be positive.

4-5 days after exposure is when it usually turns positive.

[phylny]

24. This is what I was thinking.

[Lonestarblue]

6. I'm still wearing masks indoors.

No one here is wearing masks, but it’s Texas and our rates are going up again. It’s infuriating that we could have protected almost everyone by now if everyone had gotten vaccinated when they had the opportunity. Instead, both case numbers and deaths are increasing again. I have no respect for people who place political beliefs over their own health and that of their fellow citizens. The lack of caring for human life is astounding.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

49. +1...... I am here too. It's all so absurd.

[ananda]

7. I wear my mask anywhere I go where there are strangers.

If I'm only around vaxxed people, I don't.

[phylny]

9. That's the way I was, but now I've reconsidered - I never thought to put on my mask

when both of us were fully vaccinated and were the only two people in her house.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

13. I know ! This is getting scarier to me. It's like

We don't have good enough data to know and people are infected or vaccinated and don't even know it.

[FakeNoose]

11. Good luck friend, may the Covid Angel pass you over peacefully

It's a reminder to all of us that the virus can strike anyone, anywhere.

Congratulations on becoming a grandparent - you'll love it!

[ecstatic]

51. You mean covid demon?

This virus does not play nice.

[FakeNoose]

53. It's a reference to the Biblical "Angel of Death"

Passover is the religious observance of the Angel of Death sparing the Israelites, so they could finally leave Egypt.

[yellerpup]

14. We only left our self-quarantine for 2 weeks in June

and only went out once unmasked once in that time. Our friends, all fully vaccinated, 2 with Pfizer, 2 Moderna, and 1 J&J live on the border of Missouri on I-44. They all caught Covid after spending the day with a nephew who had been to a church meeting. None were hospitalized, and one 'had the worst case of flu in my life.' You are so wise not to take unnecessary chances.

Enjoy your new grandchild! I can't imagine how excited you must be.

[Texin]

15. I never really suspended mask-wearing in public.

I wear one despite what some people might think/believe about the fact I wear them. I see so many people in public (i.e., grocery stores, big box home improvement stores, etc.), that I'm naturally wary of those who are or aren't vaccinated. I've slipped up a couple of times this past spring when we had some gardening guys who were working to tear out and replace plants that were lost in the Big Freeze here in Dallas last winter; however, they were all wearing masks or bandannas throughout the process. If I know that someone has been fully vaccinated, they're allowed into the house without a mask and I don't wear one either, but we have so very few folks coming into our house these days I've not been as diligent as I was throughout last year before vaccinations were available and I was finally able to access them. Now, with the Delta variant in full circulation, I'm more careful than I was about a month or so ago.

[Baltimike]

16. I just bought some more masks since they are now much more reasonable

Fully vaxxed with Pfizer 2nd shot 4/20/21

[Laura PourMeADrink]

18. Look at my new box! :). Rainbow

[Baltimike]

19. love this. I was even able to pick up some n95 masks

No word of the delta variant in my neck of the woods yet, so I am just social distancing and masking for now

[Laura PourMeADrink]

22. That's good, you are lucky. I'm in one of those low

vaccination states.

I am starting to conclude that the only way to not get Delta is to not be an enclosed place with people who might have it. Of course there's no good stats on the whole thing. I wonder if people are getting it even if they are vaccinated and masked up

[Baltimike]

23. Although I got mine while out, searching for you lead me to order some more

Here is a link for some reasonable masks, washable and reusable:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08CBPT1TB/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AGA47QMYRYAUM&psc=1

Here is a link to get 20 n95 masks. Get them while you can:

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Particulate-Respirator-8210-Pack/dp/B008MCUZZS/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=n95+masks&qid=1626706462&sr=8-6

[Ms. Toad]

27. Dellta is present in all 50 states

(As of July 2).

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/561419-5-states-where-the-coronavirus-delta-variant-is-spreading

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

20. In England, today was the first day of no restrictions

We went grocery shopping. I saw a very minor number of people without masks inside the shop. Maybe 1 in 10. I certainly wore one. Only one cashier was without a mask.

[Ms. Toad]

28. It took about a week for that to change here after the CDC announcement

I typically shop on Saturdays.

The first Saturday after the CDC announcement - nearly everyone was still wearing masks. A week later (even though Ohio had not formally lifted the mask restriction) no more than 10% were wearing masks.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

30. Impressed Ohioans listen to CDC at least.

I trust no one LOL. Not even CDC. Except maybe a couple doctors on Twitter

Still the oddest thing ever that some people here, at least in deep red Texas, go by what some man, a politician says. And people don't even use their head and think about it how ridiculous it is that they know best. I've heard that time and time again "THEY said we don't need it anymore"

[Ms. Toad]

31. Only when it lets them do what they want to do.

There really is power in mandated mask orders, even if there are never serious consequences.

Tolerance was waning (just before the CDC order, I got into a squabble with a police officer about his refusal to wear a mask when the state, county, and city he was in still mandated it. For the record: It's only due to privilege as a white woman with a law license that I could call him on his failure to follow the rules - I can't imagine what would have happened if I had not been white.)

So as long as the signs were up, the places where compliance was initially highest still complied, but the signs were taken down between the two Saturdays.

I don't trust the CDC on COVID transmission or masks. On those matters, they have a track record on those matters of being wrong more than right.

[totodeinhere]

34. You don't trust the CDC? Now you are sounding like a right wnger.

I though they were the paranoid ones who do not follow the science.

[Ms. Toad]

36. I follow the science, not an organization.

The CDC has been wrong, repeatedly, on masking, transmission, and trajectory of the disease when the research as been accessible for them to make better decisions - I know because the original research is what I have ben basing my decisions on since roughy January 2020.

[totodeinhere]

38. This is a new disease and we are still learning about it.

And sometimes the science will change as we learn more. But overall the CDC is the best source we have and President Biden has said that his administration will follow the science from the CDC.

[Ms. Toad]

40. No. The best source is actual peer-reviewed research.

The CDC is a secondary source which interprets that research - and, as to COVID, has been repeatedly wrong or delayed. Data on masking (both to protect the user and others) was available in March - at the time the CDC was still tellng us that no one should be masking. Data on aerosol transmission was available around the same time frame when the CDC was still pushing droplet and fomite transmission.

Yes, it is a new disease - but the information was there at a time when the CDC was issuing contrary guidance. The CDC has been extremely slow to implement the information available to it into its guidance.

It is my habit on medical matters to always go to the original source of information, not to secondary sources who may or may not interpret it wisely. I am alive and have full use of both arms because - on numerous occasions - I made the effort to review the research rather than relying on secondary sources.

As just one example (out of more than a half dozen in our family) I caught a very aggressive cancer in November earlier than 90% of the people who have it because my review of the literature alerted me to the fact that a 2014 pathology report of a supposedly benign tumor had 3 of 4 characteristics that suggest it was pre-cancerous rather than benign. My doctors disagreed with the literature, but have humored me by biopsying it 3 times since then when it regrew. The November biopsy was a rare but very aggressive cancer, which was diagnosed at kidney bean size rather than golf-ball size (the standard guidance for even biopsying such tumors).

While I will certainly consider the voices of those specifically trained in medicine, I will not trust my life, or the lives of those I love, to a secondary sources's analysis of primary data. Doing so when I was young and stupid caused caused my family too much needless suffering.

[totodeinhere]

43. The original sources of this information as you call them also generally agree with CDC guidelines.

I value my health as well but I am not going to be so paranoid that I disregard the best information we have coming from the CDC. Refusing to follow CDC guidelines is what a lot of right wingers do.

[Ms. Toad]

46. Actually - they don't.

They have been flat out wrong, or significantly lagging, compared to the information available at critical times during this pandemic.

The fact that you refer to peer reviewed medical research as "original sources of this information as you call them" strongly suggests to me you've never bothered to read any peer-reviewed research. As for agreeing with the CDC guidance - the CDC guidance on masking was not consistent with the research in March 2020. The CDC guidance as to means of transmission (aerosolized transmission) was significantly delayed compared to the research, and on and on.

Blindly following any entity, without thinking for yourself, is intellectually lazy. Thinking for yourself is generally a trait associated with progressives. You should be ashamed of yourself for suggesting that members of DU who engage in intellectually rigorous analysis of original research are acting like right wingers.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

48. Seems there is a huge difference. One group is trashing

the CDC because they were wrong - So they are using it as an excuse to do LESS covid prevention


Then there are those of us who have done a lot of research and know that CDC (along with others) was lagging/wrong BUT wanted them to be MORE proactive, more cautious. Then and now.

[Withywindle]

66. THIS, exactly.

I watch and monitor carefully, and I think it's best to err on the side of caution. There are a lot of people who don't want to wear masks or take precautions, so when the CDC tells them what they want to hear, they embrace it and when it doesn't, they trash it.

Obviously the CDC is better in the Biden administration than it was under TFG, but I still think it lags.

World Health Organization says that fully vaxxed people should still wear masks, and they've got science behind it too. https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/06/25/who-urges-fully-vaccinated-people-to-continue-wearing-masks-as-delta-variant-spreads-but-no-word-from-cdc/?sh=275f8aef41f9

[Laura PourMeADrink]

70. That! And just good common sense based on

a wide variety of reading from scientists and doctors. But just want this long nightmare to be over, don't you?
.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

39. Totally agree ! And getting accused of rw talk

angers the hell out of me.

[Ms. Toad]

42. Me too.

Blindly following the CDC is the same mindset as blndly following Fox news.

If you have to blindly follow an organization, the CDC is a dramaticlly superior organization to follow than Fox news. They are not even in the same ballpark. BUT - blindly following any entity is not something I am willing to do.

[liberal_mama]

32. That was my experience in Western New York too

After the CDC announcement, a lot of people in the store were still wearing masks for a week or two. Then it was about 20 -30% for a while. When I went to the store yesterday, there were only one person, besides me, wearing a mask.

[totodeinhere]

33. If you have been fully vaccinated the chance of a breakthrough infection is very slim

although possible since no vaccines can be 100% effective.

And if you do get it the symptoms will probably be either unnoticeable or very mild. I am continuing to follow the science and the CDC guidelines. So in most situations I can go maskless.

[phylny]

35. So I thought but my friend's brother-in-law

is vaccinated.

I do agree with you in principle.

[totodeinhere]

37. I didn't say it's impossible. I said it's rare. n/t

[Ms. Toad]

41. The effectiveness of the mRNA vaccines is reduced to about 80%

for the same exposure pre-vaccination, pre-Delta that would have been 95% effective.

That is taking the best case scenario (60% increased infection rate for Delta; 88% effectiveness against Delta). If you have the J&J vaccine, your'e down to an effecctiveness of around 50%. If some of the new data out of Israel is correct, the effectiveness of the mRNA vaccines is only about 80% - which would decrease the effectivene effectiveness (compared to pre-Delta exposure of an unvaccinated person) to around 68%.

That's not rare.

[totodeinhere]

44. Actually, if those stats are accurate that still makes the vaccines more effective that most

vaccines including the flu vaccines. Don't you see that the approach you are taking plays right into the hands of the anti-vaxers? One of their main talking points is their claim that the vaccines are not effective.

[Ms. Toad]

47. So you care more about what right wing idiots think

than your own health? The health of any children age 0-11 you may encounter? The health of any immune compromised people who were unable to build immunity in response to the vaccine? The risk that you will become a long-haul COVID case, or have unanticipate consequences?

Pretending the vaccine is an impervious shield, that stands aloneas a perfect barrier against COVID, puts your health and the health of all of those people at risk.

Intellectually, it is the same as acknowledging that seat belts aren't perfect, so we need not only seat belts but also air bags. Surely you would not be irresponsible enough to say we should keep silent about the statistics on seat belt deaths because acknowledging them might discourage people from using seat belts. The reality that seat belts aren't perfect is motiviation to add a second layer of protection, not a reason to stop wearing seat belts entirely.

Even Dr. Fauci recognizes that vaccination, alone, doesn't cut it in the face of increased exposure to Delta. He has encouraged mask wearing by vaccinated individuals in response to increased exposure. And, given the rapid increase in cases, that incrased exposure is - or will rapidly become - everywhere in the United States - especially indoors. Based on data from about a week ago, we're on track to have 200,000 cases a day by early September. (Based on yesterday's data, it has only gotten worse - 200,000 will happen shortly after mid-August.)

[totodeinhere]

54. I do not want to encourage right wing idiots. And yes I care about the health of everybody

and that's one of the main reasons why I got vaccinated. But I am not going to succumb to scare tactics. Since I am fully vaccinated the chances that I might spread it to others is negligible. And the chance that I might kill a pedestrian with my car the next time I drive to work is also negligible but not impossible. So I drive to work in spite of the very slight chance that I might kill somebody. I refuse to live the rest of my life with my head buried under a pillow.

[Ms. Toad]

55. It is not a scare tactic. Delta is real, and dangerous.

And you are suggesting hiding, or soft-pedalling information that is critical to people staying safe.

No one is suggesting you bury your head under a pillow - the suggestion is layers of protection. Just like you don't rely solely on seatbelts - because they are not sufficient. You also have air bags in your car.

But you do need to pull your head out of the sand.

The chance that you will get the Delta variant is not negligible. 6 fully vaccinated members of the 55 person fully vaccinated Texas delegation got COVID. We don't yet know the source of those 6 breakthrough cases.

One or more of those 6 fully vaccinated individuals with COVID spread COVID to both a fully vaccinated white house staffer and to Nancy Pelosi's fuly vaccinated aide. Two breakthrough cases who were infected by one or more people you claim have a negligible risk of spreading it to others.

And I suspect there will be more.

And - those aids/the white house staffer - or even the original may have children who cannot be vaccinated and have absolutely no protection from the selfish fools who pretend that they can't transmit the virus because they are vaccinated, and who can't be bothered by the inconvenience of adding an air bag (mask) to the effective-but-not-perfect seat belt (vaccine).

[totodeinhere]

60. So far all of the breakthrough infections you mentioned have resulted in either mild symptoms or no

symptoms. And none were hospitalized. The purpose of the vaccines is to keep people out of the hospital and they are very effective in doing that.

[Ms. Toad]

61. You claimed the risk that you would infect someone was negligible.

That is blatantly wrong.

And unvaccinated children you might infect (directly or by infecting those around them) in that non-negligible transmission have no protection at all.

As to the purpose of vaccines- it is to prevent infection. They were tested to see if they would at least minimize the severity in order to get emergency approval more quickly. Another thing they decided to "fudge" when they described - and - like "masks don't work" it is hard to dispel once said.

The death rate for breakthrough cases is virtually identical to those in unvaccinated individuals. The reduction in symptoms (the 95% in the initial trial) is virtually identical to the reduction in infection in the later, more complete, tests in which every participant was followed with regular PCR tests to determine disease prevention. That means that the reduction in symptoms and death is due exclusively, or almost exclusively, to the reduction in transmission.

So it isn't that you are guaranteed a mild case if you are vaccinated (if all you are worried about is yourself, not the 15% of the country which cannot be vaccinated) - it is that the range in outcomes is spread over a much smaller population of sick individual. Just on DU (and family members), there have been 2 long haul and 1 death that have been reported in breakthrough cases.

[totodeinhere]

62. All untrue.

And I noticed that you provided no links to back up those wild claims.

"How can I protect my unvaccinated child?

Masked unvaccinated child

These are the best ways to protect your child, or a child you care for, who cannot get vaccinated yet:

Get vaccinated yourself. COVID-19 vaccines reduce the risk of people getting and spreading COVID-19.
If your child is 2 years and older, make sure that your child wears a mask in public settings and takes other actions to protect themselves.

To set an example, you also might choose to wear a mask.

If your child is younger than 2 years or cannot wear a mask, limit visits with people who are not vaccinated or whose vaccination status is unknown and keep distance between your child and other people in public.

The CDC is only recommending that fully vaccinated people may choose to wear a mask as an example, but there is no recommendation that fully vaccinated people wear masks otherwise.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/about-covid-19/caring-for-children/families.html

[Ms. Toad]

63. Everything I said was true.

And basically, you are telling me you are unwllng to think for yourself, and you don't care enough about protecting others to take the trivial step of wearing a mask when you are insde in order to protect those you might infect - especially - the 0-12 year olds who are prohibited from being vaccinated.

I hope you come to your senses before anyone you infect becomes seriously ill or dies.

[radius777]

65. Agree, the CDC is a political entity,

and pharmaceutical companies are corporate entities - neither of which have an interest in 100% scientific truth.

The CDC lifted the mask requirements far too soon, IMO due to political pressure on the Biden admin. All it did was give the impression that 'the pandemic is over' and thus removed the incentives for the vaccine hesitant/anti-vaxxers to get vaccinated.

Another falsehood the CDC spread was that 'cloth masks work'. They only work to protect others from you, but not you from others if those others are unmasked and covid positive. For that you need a high quality/authentic surgical, kn95 or n95 mask. The CDC lied (or did not fully clarify this point) likely to 'save' the supply of better masks for healthcare workers. But while this intent may've been noble initially (especially in the early days of the pandemic), it does not help people who need to make choices to protect themselves and their families.

[Ms. Toad]

69. The CDC was wrong on cloth masks, but in the opposite direction you suggest.

Cloth masks DO protect both the wearer and those around the wearer - around 80% the effectiveness of no masks at all. Slightly less protective for the wearer than those around the wearer - but around the same effectveness as the J&J vaccines. (And, certainly, high grade medical masks are better.)

There is research to support this going back as far as March 2020, when the CDC was insisting they didn't work, then insisting they only helped others, and finally acknowledging they are an effective disease prevention tool.

Yes, the CDC lifted the mask restrictions too soon - initially because the unvaccinated took it as permission to stop masking - leaving the 15% of the population who cannot yet be vaccinated completely vulnerable. Even more so now because the Delta variant is so contagious.

[radius777]

71. A high quality tightly woven cloth mask may

protect as you suggest, but studies have shown that the types of cloth masks that people wear in practice are usually soiled, thin and ill fitting.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/01/why-arent-we-wearing-better-masks/617656/
January 13, 2021
Why Aren’t We Wearing Better Masks?
Cloth masks are better than nothing, but they were supposed to be a stopgap measure.
By Zeynep Tufekci and Jeremy Howard
...
We first released the paper as a preprint back in April, and it took nine months to go through peer review. We’re happy that it’s published but, to be honest, we’re also deeply disappointed that it’s still relevant. We’d hoped that by 2021 supply chains would have ramped up enough to ensure that everyone had better masks. Cloth masks, especially homemade ones, were supposed to be a stopgap measure. Why are so many of us still wearing them?

Don’t get us wrong; everything we said about the efficacy of cloth masks stands the test of time. Wearing them is much better than wearing nothing. They definitely help reduce transmission of the coronavirus from the wearer and likely protect the wearer to some degree as well. But we know that not all masks are equal, and early on in the pandemic, there was a dire shortage of higher-grade masks for medical workers. During those emergency conditions, something was much better than nothing. There are better possibilities now, but they require action and guidance by the authorities.
...
Even all cloth masks are not equal. Construction, materials, and fit matter, and these can’t be tracked or certified with homemade masks. Unlike cloth masks, medical-grade masks (also called respirators) that adhere to standards such as N95 (in the U.S.), FFP2 (in the European Union), and KN95 (in China) do a much better job of protecting the wearer and dampening transmission. Ideally, they should also come with instructions on how to wear them and ensure that they fit properly.
...
Not having higher-grade medical masks or even reliable, certified cloth masks distributed to the population means more transmission. But that’s not all. If we could confidently tell people that the masks would also help protect the wearer from infection, we would likely get more people to wear them. Appealing to solidarity is excellent (“My mask protects you; your mask protects me”), but being able to confidently add self-interest to the equation would be even better.
...

[Ms. Toad]

72. If you aren't interested in protecting yourself, you can obviously just go through the motions.

But that's user error, not an indictment of the ability to masks to protect the wearer.

[totodeinhere]

67. I am fully vaccinated yet you are accusing me of infaecting other people?

Shame on you. Didn't you read the CDC guidelines that I posted? The chances of infecting someone when fully vaccinated are nil. Plus I an not infected anyway. Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. I am one of the good guys. I am fully vaccinated. The CDC says I don't have to wear a mask. If their guidelines change then I will change accordingly.

[Ms. Toad]

68. Tell that to the 55 person Texas delation -

Last edited Wed Jul 21, 2021, 06:42 PM - Edit history (1)

ALL fully vaccinated

6 of whom contracted COVID - that more than 10% of that small fully vaccinated group who have caught it.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/sixth-member-texas-democratic-delegation-tests-positive-covid-n1274443

Those 6 transmitted it to a White House staffer and an aide to Nancy Pelosi

A White House official confirmed Tuesday that an unnamed official has mild symptoms and has not been on White House grounds since the positive test.

Two of those individuals, the White House official and an aide to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, were exposed during a meeting with members of the Texas Democratic delegation.

and likely several others:

Several congressional staff members, Florida Republican Congressman Vern Buchanan and a White House official have all tested positive for COVID-19, despite being fully vaccinated, the attending physician for Congress said Tuesday.

https://www.news10.com/news/congressional-staffers-and-wh-official-test-positive-for-covid-19/

That's a 33% transmission rate - for the transmissions that have been confirmed. Far higher for the suspected transmissions 33% is NOT nil. The recipients were fully vaccinated - the transmssion rate would be even higher if those they came into contact with were unvaccinated children.

You are vaccinated. That does not mean you are not infected - I'm sure you are aware that that is what tons of people said when they attended super-sepreader events and passed their "non-infection" to others. That does not mean you cannot transmit it to others - I'm sure the Texas delegation both believed they were not infected - and - that even if they were they could not transmit it.

It is irresponsible, in the face of evidence that clearly deonstrates that it is both possible to contract COVID AND to transmit it to others, to stick your head in the sand and refuse to think for yourself.

ETA:

BOSTON —
Massachusetts public health officials reported 716 new COVID-19 breakthrough cases in fully vaccinated individuals in the past week, data from the Department of Public Health shows.

A breakthrough case is when an individual tests positive for COVID-19 after they've been fully vaccinated against the disease.

Numbers from the Massachusetts Department of Public Health show there have been 5,166 cases of COVID-19 in fully vaccinated individuals as of July 17, a significant increase from the 4,450 reported one week earlier.

As of Tuesday, the DPH reported 1,649 new positive COVID-19 cases between July 10 and July 16.

When analyzing the number of overall COVID-19 cases reported by the DPH between July 10 and July 16, the breakthrough cases account for 43.4 percent of all new COVID-19 cases.

https://www.wcvb.com/article/massachusetts-716-breakthrough-covid-cases-vaccinated-individuals/37083279#

[Laura PourMeADrink]

50. Speaking truth always better isn't it? Or are you suggesting

that we lie to all people? Just to get them vaccinated? I guess it's an interesting premise. For the good of all humankind, exaggerate the effectiveness of the vaccine.

And for those who really know, keep on doing all the extra things to keep yourself safe. I agree, although vaccines are not the end all been all, perhaps we all can agree that you are certainly in a better position having been vaccinated versus not have been.

Once again, if you are learned and intelligent.. you save yourself and your loved ones.

[phylny]

45. I understand.

[SKKY]

59. Of course you are. You're an adult...

...and that's what adults do. The responsible thing.