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Fri Jul 30, 2021, 06:33 AM

How Biden Got the Infrastructure Deal Trump Couldn't

https://politicalwire.com/2021/07/30/how-biden-got-the-infrastructure-deal-trump-couldnt/

How Biden Got the Infrastructure Deal Trump Couldn’t
July 30, 2021 at 6:24 am EDT By Taegan Goddard


“President Biden’s success at propelling an infrastructure deal past its first major hurdle this week was a vindication of his faith in bipartisanship and a repudiation of the slash-and-burn politics of his immediate predecessor, President Donald Trump, who tried and failed to block it,” the New York Times reports.

“Having campaigned as the anti-Trump — an insider who regarded compromise as a virtue, rather than a missed opportunity to crush a rival — Mr. Biden has held up the promise of a broad infrastructure accord not just as a policy priority but as a test of the fundamental rationale for his presidency.”

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Arrow 26 replies Author Time Post
Reply How Biden Got the Infrastructure Deal Trump Couldn't (Original post)
babylonsister Jul 2021 OP
lark Jul 2021 #1
GoodRaisin Jul 2021 #3
NurseJackie Aug 2021 #8
dsc Aug 2021 #17
NurseJackie Aug 2021 #18
dsc Aug 2021 #19
NurseJackie Aug 2021 #20
dsc Aug 2021 #21
Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #22
dsc Aug 2021 #24
patphil Aug 2021 #13
Johnny2X2X Jul 2021 #2
keithbvadu2 Jul 2021 #4
bucolic_frolic Jul 2021 #5
thesquanderer Jul 2021 #6
TiberiusB Jul 2021 #7
WhiskeyGrinder Aug 2021 #9
Hortensis Aug 2021 #10
TiberiusB Aug 2021 #15
Hortensis Aug 2021 #16
dsc Aug 2021 #23
TiberiusB Aug 2021 #25
Hortensis Aug 2021 #26
Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #11
AverageOldGuy Aug 2021 #12
FreeState Aug 2021 #14

Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 30, 2021, 09:06 AM

1. Biden WORKED for this, drumpf never worked a day in his life except for stealing efforts.

He couldn't be bothered once his first instinct of flatter, bribe or kill and destroy if he doesn't get 100% of what he wants. TFG would never put in the time or have the humility or even care enough to work well and compromise with others. He had zero moves beyond suck up or threaten, was never willing to put in the hard work of exploring multiple options. He wanted to profit off this and when Dems balked at the give aways to himself and the rich, he had zero interest.

Everything is always and only about the deadly deficient diva.

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Response to lark (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 30, 2021, 09:28 AM

3. That's it. Trump didn't ever work. He's too lazy.

Also, even if the desire to do some work ever hit him, he was ignorant about how the legislative process works and not capable of bringing along legislation.

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Response to lark (Reply #1)

Sun Aug 1, 2021, 07:37 AM

8. I remain disappointed to see progressives who oppose Biden and threaten to "tank" and...

... and block and disrupt the Biden/Harris agenda at every opportunity simply because it's not "perfect" and because some elements "don't go far enough". It's that same burn-it-down philosophy that has served us so well in the past, eh? Lord.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #8)

Mon Aug 2, 2021, 09:22 AM

17. They are dead right on this one though

this deal doesn't particularly help their districts nor our voters to the extent it helps GOP districts and their voters. Far more money is being spent on highways than transit, which means AOC's district isn't going to see nearly as much $ per person than say Susan Collins.

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Response to dsc (Reply #17)

Mon Aug 2, 2021, 09:59 AM

18. So fucking what?

this deal doesn't particularly help their districts nor our voters to the extent it helps GOP districts and their voters
So fucking what?

Far more money is being spent on highways than transit, which means AOC's district isn't going to see nearly as much $ per person than say Susan Collins.
Is that how we're playing it now?

Good grief.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #18)

Mon Aug 2, 2021, 10:03 AM

19. yes it is

We need to get our voters to be willing to vote for us. That means they need to see improvement in their lives from our policies. Instead we are taking 'unspent' money that likely would have gone to our voters, and instead, are giving it to people who will never vote for us. That is political malpractice.

On edit: Coupled with the reconciliation bill this would be an OK bill, and that is what the progressive caucus was promised would be the case and what they are, quite rightly, holding us to.

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Response to dsc (Reply #19)

Mon Aug 2, 2021, 10:06 AM

20. Lulz



Instead we are taking 'unspent' money that likely would have gone to our voters, and instead, are giving it to people who will never vote for us.
So let's just do nothing and maintain the status quo... EVERYONE STARVES! Whoopee! That'll teach 'em... eh?

GMAFB!

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #20)

Mon Aug 2, 2021, 10:16 AM

21. You may not have seen it

since I edited but I think we should pass both bills or none. we have a majority of both houses and the presidency, that means we should get the majority of our policy not less than half. Passing this bill gives us considerably less than half our policy with over half being theirs.

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Response to dsc (Reply #17)

Mon Aug 2, 2021, 10:18 AM

22. BS...getting something helps everyone. They are dead wrong on this...and I consider party

loyalty important.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #22)

Mon Aug 2, 2021, 10:22 AM

24. The House was promised, and are holding us to, the fact that either both bills or none

Biden literally said he wouldn't sign the bipartisan bill without the partisan one. Pelosi said that there wouldn't be a vote on the bipartisan bill without the partisan one. They are right on the merits and on the principle that promises should be honored.

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Response to lark (Reply #1)

Sun Aug 1, 2021, 03:38 PM

13. Trump had no idea how to govern.

He was a slick salesman with an ability to sell and idea. It might work well with a golf course, a hotel, or a resort, but governing a country takes work; lots of hard work, and a commitment to stick with it until the job is done.

That's the different between Trump and Biden.
Trump sells his snake oil, then folds up his tent and moves on to the next stage. He has the attention span of a two year old.
Biden sells solutions, and works with everyone involved into a solution is implemented.

Simply put, Biden is up to the job, Trump could never do the job.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 30, 2021, 09:12 AM

2. The country desparately needed this.

Reps had to play ball, but it was Biden opening the door and not making it a political fight that made it possible. With Trump, everything was political and about settling scores.

But another factor on this too is Republicans wanting to stick it to Trump. Not a ton of them, but enough so that this will easily pass.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 30, 2021, 10:50 AM

4. Because Biden cares about America? Because Biden tries?

Because Biden cares about America?

Because Biden tries?

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 30, 2021, 03:25 PM

5. Because Biden's infrastructure policy helps everyone

Business, people, companies, workers, owners, blue & white collar. There is simply no downside to making the economy more efficient. It's the essence of productivity and economic growth while reducing waste.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 30, 2021, 03:33 PM

6. I'm a cynic. I still fear that Republicans only voted for this first phase...

...to demonstrate how "reasonable" they can be, before they totally bail on actually passing anything. They want to be able to claim to support infrastructure, and then will "regrettably" have to vote the other way on the final bill due to unreasonable "Democrat" provisions. I hope I'm wrong, but...

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 30, 2021, 04:19 PM

7. The uncritical examination of this bill is astounding

Last edited Mon Aug 2, 2021, 12:50 AM - Edit history (2)

What are the possible reasons for a sudden leap from no GOP support for anything spearheaded by "block the Biden agenda" McConnell to a McConnell led defection of 17 Republicans to support a massive "win" for President Biden?

1.)They want to embarrass Trump.
The current presumptive nominee that the GOP has been falling over itself to embrace even now? Even if that is true, how does it hurt Trump? There's no evidence that I've seen that Trump's base was clamoring to get an infrastructure bill passed or that they wouldn't immediately be willing to blame anything and anyone for blocking him from getting what he wanted. The man was impeached TWICE for borderline treason and is still the presumed front runner for 2024.

2.)President Biden is just a masterful negotiator.
It seems like most of the negotiations involved Democrats and Republicans in the Senate. Seriously, how was Biden involved? That's a real question and not snark.

3.)Republicans need to bring home the bacon to shore up support in case their massive voter suppression efforts somehow fail.
It is an easy win for those 17 that are probably getting a little extra gravy on their pork.

4.)It's a big bipartisan f-you to the progressives.
The bipartisan fetish in the press and Washington is well documented and toxic. It essentially has come to mean "give Republicans what they want" and was a disaster under President Obama and that continues now under President Biden. This bill, should it pass, will be a huge win for obstructionist clowns like Sinema and Manchin and will immediately torpedo any hope of passing larger bills or reforming/eliminating the filibuster.

5.)It actually undermines the relief bill Biden and the Democrats already passed
Most of the financing for this bill is slated to come from "unspent" funds already allocated for unemployment and Covid relief. So this bill not only doesn't tax the rich, it hurts the poor.

6.)Say goodbye to increases in corporate tax rates or any tax increases on the rich and embrace selling off public assets to private interests (public/private "partnerships" ).
There is a reason why groups like the Chamber of Commerce are clamoring for this bill to pass.

7.)It will all collapse when it comes up for a vote.
Grab some headlines, drag things out a little bit longer, and then tank the whole thing. It's been done before.

Voters absolutely don't give a damn about bipartisanship. They want results and this bill barely scratches the surface of needed infrastructure investment and does almost nothing for the climate. If it passes, I'd worry that any attempt to pass a bigger bill through reconciliation will die or get watered down until it turns into the same corporate give away this bill is.

McConnell's support should be setting off alarms, but thread after thread seems to believe that he's either come around or is eager to somehow embarrass Trump.

With this he scores an easy win for GOP members to bring home for re-election, diffuses the push to abandon absurdly lopsided "bipartisan" negotiations that favor the minority party, protects the filibuster until 2022 when you KNOW he expects to retake Congress (and with gerrymandering and voter suppression, he likely will), at which point he is free to eliminate it himself, and he secures more waffling from Biden on voting rights as this will be held up as proof that Republicans can be reasonable.

I would love to be wrong, but my gut and all available evidence tells me this is a trap.

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Response to TiberiusB (Reply #7)

Sun Aug 1, 2021, 07:42 AM

9. Well said.

Here's what bipartisanship looks like and what it gets us:


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Response to TiberiusB (Reply #7)

Sun Aug 1, 2021, 08:05 AM

10. To me this post is rather astounding. But then I came in rolling my eyes

at the ridiculous false equivalence the title suggests between Biden and Trump. Trump's mentally disordered and is only interested in constructing monuments to himself. All his infrastructure promises were were just words to get elected and keep the rally cheering going and going.

As for your worries that Democratic competence and commitment to great goals equal falling into an evil Republican trap, I'm afraid they, inadvertently, remind me of the insidious and irrational lies about Democrats that helped elect Trump. Lies that, when we're not just as bad as Republicans of course, we're born losers to them are traps for their targets to fall into.

Of course the Republicans have a game to play -- they're not dead. At least remember that Biden didn't develop our position alone. If it's an incredibly stupid trap, all our Democrats in congress and all the experts in all the institutions that helped develop these huge bills helped dig and then fall into it as well. Surely beyond unlikely when you think of it.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #10)

Mon Aug 2, 2021, 12:36 AM

15. I pretty much knew my concerns would produce a reply like this

And you counter my points how, exactly? I didn't make any argument for an equivalence between Trump and Biden. Trump's blather was always just that, nonsense to inflame his base or inflate his ego. I have never claimed otherwise.

I never equated the DESIRE to do good with falling into GOP traps. I worry that the itch to appear fair and balanced (aka "bipartisan" ) will undermine Biden's agenda, hobbling the Democrats during the short period when they hold both houses and the Presidency. Blue dogs and corporatists like Sinema and Manchin are the issue, not progressives who actually want to push through real change.

Could you list all the "experts" that helped develop the bill? Should we not be even slightly suspicious of legislation that has won over the execrable Chamber of Commerce?

Time is running out, and if only this bill gets through and the 3.5 trillion reconciliation bill stalls and dies, it may well prove to be an election year disaster in 2022.

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Response to TiberiusB (Reply #15)

Mon Aug 2, 2021, 07:59 AM

16. We always have to TRY to serve the American people in bipartisan

manner because that's the PRINCIPLE of representative government. Roughly half of those who vote choose Republicans to represent them. Of course, today's depraved, corrupt Republicans usually refuse to cooperate in good faith, often 100% implacably, so we go in expecting that and planning to continue on by ourselves. Pelosi once answered when asked if she was surprised at something they pulled, "I'm never surprised." And she meant it. Not by them.

The problem you seem to imagine isn't that Democrats are protecting the functions and principles of congress, it's that voters didn't give us enough power to do everything we need to prevail against Repubilcan opposition. Until and if the Republicans succeed in destroying bipartisanship and representative government for good, we will always attempt bipartisan cooperation as a critical part of our battle to save it.

That commitment to the principles of representative government, btw, is inconsonant with the corruption you suspect our Democrats in congress are up to their necks in. Cooperation and compromise are intrinsic to representative government. It can't exist without them. Sadly, these days, even more than others, Republicans require their cooperation to be purchased, but in all eras greasing the way is just part of it.

Fortunately for our nation, most people who run as liberal Democrats do so because they believe in government's power to do good and want to be part of it. That tends to limit what they'll do once in the swamp -- that and their Democratic colleagues. Extremely unlike the people allowed to win elections as Republicans these days. There are big, very basic reasons why the conservative party was the one that was taken over by corruption and betrayal, and anti-government extremism.

Btw, questioning involvement of experts? Just imagine what these bills are intended to accomplish in an unimaginably complex, interactive, and constantly changing nation of over 300 million people and a large portion of the planet's industry. Of course what underlies them is the result of years of many in-depth studies, from every pertinent discipline and industry, of many different aspects of every situation. The ACA hasn't worked as excellently as it has because it was cobbled together by some congressional aides and tweaked according the latest polls. Every provision that's chopped or doesn't pass at all because we can't control everything will break the hearts of many who've been working for years toward their various goals.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #16)

Mon Aug 2, 2021, 10:19 AM

23. No roughly half the people didn't chose the GOP

Biden won by 7 pts, we won all three elections that produced this Senate by an average of 8, and we won the election that produced the house by about 7. These are clear, convincing victories by any standard.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #16)

Mon Aug 2, 2021, 02:57 PM

25. Serve the people, yes, but that doesn't mean beltway bipartisanship

In a sane and rational world, which you acknowledge we don't currently enjoy, bipartisanship would make sense, but now it's just a long slog toward corporate pacification and has little to nothing to do with the will of the voting public.

The Republicans are effectively a non-factor in any negotiations simply because their allegiance to wildly regressive social mores to pander to their conservative white power base combined with their decades long efforts to consolidate and expand corporate power are thoroughly established and documented. Going from zero support to suddenly a filibuster proof majority led by the openly vile Mitch McConnell is either a complete about face from the past, what, twenty years, or something far more sinister. The fact that millions vote for them is not a reason to accept their policies. If half the public favored returning to slavery, we wouldn't agree to split the difference and just go with indentured servitude for a few decades. Policy should be driven by data and our purported adherence to fundamental human rights, a term that tends to be rather elastic depending on the circumstances.

It has become ever more clear that Manchin, Sinema, Tester, Coons, and other blue dogs and corporate Democrats are seriously compromised where issues of corporate influence are concerned, such as the environment and progressive taxation. Perhaps most problematic is the opposition to the passage of the For the People Act, which threatens to enshrine minority GOP control for the foreseeable future. If the GOP retakes Congress in 2022 thanks to voter suppression and gerrymandering, what's to stop them from impeaching and convicting Biden for virtually anything they want? They will certainly stop any and all pretense at cooperation. Extend that logic to 2024 and states like Arizona and Georgia and you have a GOP electoral advantage that could very well deliver them the Presidency as well. Should that occur, does anyone believe they wouldn't throw away the filibuster if it suits them? What would a Republican voting rights act look like? Who would be able to stop the federal imposition of voting restrictions on blue states? What will "bipartisanship" mean then? I think a look back over the past four years answers that.

Consider the new revelations that Exxon may be largely responsible for excising the climate elements from the current bill.

[link:https://newrepublic.com/article/162901/biden-white-house-exxon-infrastructure|

Manchin, perhaps the most prominent of the "centrist" group, has made millions from coal investments. This bill has devolved into a corporate give away and tax dodge. There is some good in it, but gambling that there will be other chances in the future to try again ignores historical precedent and a rapidly closing widow on a mind numbing number of crises, from the climate to representative democracy.

I don't question the use of experts in any deliberation. The problem lies in the presumption that experts crafted this bill without actually establishing who those experts are or whether they might be biased. It's much like when some Fox reporter chimes in with a "people are saying..." generic inquiry with the sole intent of drawing out a response from the White House. It's an assumption of legitimacy without verification.

Though I oppose this bill, I, like many others, would be willing to accept the many painful compromises if it resulted in the passage of much more expansive and effective legislation. I'm virtually certain, though, that the second this bill passes, reconciliation will become a dirty word again and Biden's administration will be hobbled for the remainder of his term.

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Response to TiberiusB (Reply #25)

Mon Aug 2, 2021, 08:52 PM

26. I think a big difference is that I'm invested in the great things we're trying

to accomplish, not fixated on what we have to do to make it happen. This is the real world. The less power we have, the bigger the tradeoffs we have to accept to achieve anything.

I also don't see business as fundamentally evil, though unregulated business always becomes a huge and dangerous problem. Businesses are enormous, and enormously powerful, national assets that have to be involved to accomplish big things.

Lol, I thought of suggesting you check into some of the deals required to create the New Deal programs, the Fair Deal programs, LBJ's Great Society and War on Poverty, and on and on, but what decades of often putrid sausage making accomplished might have the wrong effect. The bitter battles and tradeoffs between the New Dealers' rabid southern conservative and Black factions, both of which were critical to passing bills, were extremely ugly and painful. The socialist faction was so outraged at the New Deal's "corruption" and "betrayal" of the people that they did their best to destroy it. And of course evil business was part of all of it.

But the entire nation benefited, then and ever since. And in every era Democrats play whatever hands the electorate deals to do our best to fulfill our campaign promises and keep advancing our national wellbeing. I trust our commitment to our professed goals, Tiberius. We're the progressives in progressive government and the liberals in liberal democracy.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sun Aug 1, 2021, 08:06 AM

11. Why "Mr. Biden". It is president Biden.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sun Aug 1, 2021, 08:10 AM

12. How did Biden get the deal?

Simple: Biden had an infrastructure plan; Trump had hot air and bullshit.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sun Aug 1, 2021, 04:07 PM

14. He also has a Mayor Pete

Secretary Pete has been selling this like only he can - we are so lucky to have him on our team:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/06/buttigieg-infrastructure-biden/619117/

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