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Sat Jul 31, 2021, 09:33 AM

Let It Rip

This is about all we have left.

https://politicalwire.com/2021/07/31/let-it-rip/

Let It Rip
July 31, 2021 at 7:49 am EDT By Taegan Goddard 299 Comments


Andrew Sullivan: “We are at a stage in this pandemic when we are trying to persuade the hold-outs — disproportionately white Republicans/evangelicals and urban African-Americans — to get vaccinated. How do we best do this? Endless, condescending nagging won’t help. Coercion is not an option in a free country. Since the vaccinated appear to be able to transmit the virus as well, vaccine passports lose their power to remove all risk. Forcing all the responsible people to go back to constraining their everyday lives for the sake of the vaccine-averse is both unfair and actually weakens the incentive to get a vaccine, because it lowers the general risk of getting it in the broader society.”

“So the obviously correct public policy is to let mounting sickness and rising deaths concentrate the minds of the recalcitrant. Let reality persuade the delusional and deranged. It has a pretty solid record of doing just that.”

“The government cannot be held responsible for sickness and death it has already provided the means to avoid. People are responsible for their own lives.”

38 replies, 3521 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 38 replies Author Time Post
Reply Let It Rip (Original post)
babylonsister Jul 2021 OP
flying_wahini Jul 2021 #1
Mister Ed Jul 2021 #3
plimsoll Jul 2021 #7
ancianita Jul 2021 #27
thesquanderer Jul 2021 #19
captain queeg Jul 2021 #2
marie999 Jul 2021 #4
dchill Jul 2021 #5
usaf-vet Jul 2021 #13
Ramsey Barner Jul 2021 #22
KS Toronado Jul 2021 #10
mjvpi Jul 2021 #6
KS Toronado Jul 2021 #8
usaf-vet Jul 2021 #15
KS Toronado Jul 2021 #26
3Hotdogs Jul 2021 #9
Midnight Writer Jul 2021 #11
Bev54 Jul 2021 #12
LiberalLovinLug Jul 2021 #14
usaf-vet Jul 2021 #36
LiberalLovinLug Jul 2021 #38
lindysalsagal Jul 2021 #16
KS Toronado Jul 2021 #20
Jakes Progress Jul 2021 #28
Hekate Jul 2021 #17
Anguiped Jul 2021 #18
Ramsey Barner Jul 2021 #21
aggiesal Jul 2021 #23
babylonsister Jul 2021 #31
aggiesal Jul 2021 #33
babylonsister Jul 2021 #34
aggiesal Jul 2021 #35
barbtries Jul 2021 #24
LastLiberal in PalmSprings Jul 2021 #25
appalachiablue Jul 2021 #37
Jakes Progress Jul 2021 #29
babylonsister Jul 2021 #30
Post removed Jul 2021 #32

Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 09:37 AM

1. Yes, in other words Let them Die.


These days we also call it FA and find out.

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Response to flying_wahini (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 10:02 AM

3. Unfortunately, it means not only "let them die", but "let them kill."

Innocent children will die. They can't be vaccinated yet. It's true that they're far less vulnerable than old folks, but they're not invulnerable.

There seems to be no means to prevent it. Children will die for the convenience of their reckless elders.

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Response to Mister Ed (Reply #3)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 10:59 AM

7. Well, that's consistent with their second amendment beliefs.

So finally, they've achieved some consistency. It's their right to kill others or let them die to preserve their rights. On a broader perspective, you'd have to say there is consistency. Their in favor of preserving "rights" that will lead to others death or suffering, and opposed to actions that would cause people to question if anyone has the right to kill or inflict pain and suffering on others.

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Response to Mister Ed (Reply #3)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 12:15 PM

27. A lot of free will agency out there isn't being used responsibly, for sure, probably because stupids

really don't know how to responsibly exercise their free wills both for themselves and the interests of others.

I gotta conclude that they don't really know they have this problem, and that they're not amenable to learning how their choices maximize their lives and the lives of others, or they don't know how to learn, and that their problem of free will irresponsibility might lead to others' deaths (I don't know about the "kill" part); iow, they always deny they have a responsibility problem, and so learn the hard way while others suffer. They're the ones who don't know how to participate in this democracy, and yet benefit because others do.

Without institutional maintenance (schools, public health systems, media) of human development, we end up with a lot of unknowing humans who are a drag on life, liberty, property and national problem solving for the rest who do know how to look out for theirs and others' best democratic interests. They're a blight on the nation, not just the body politic.

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Response to flying_wahini (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 11:54 AM

19. Captain Kirk said it best.



(and yes, the original poster of the video tagged it with the wrong movie source)

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 09:41 AM

2. Pretty much true. I don't think many who have avoided be responsible are going to change

It’s probably going to end up being a lesson in social Darwinism to some degree. If it were just affecting those who choose to ignore precautions I wouldn’t particularly care, but there will be collateral damage.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 10:21 AM

4. We have some children with medical problems living in our neighborhood.

Their parent will not get vaccinated or wear masks. I wonder who they will blame if their children die.

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Response to marie999 (Reply #4)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 10:54 AM

5. God's will.

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Response to dchill (Reply #5)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 11:36 AM

13. God is that selective? He culls out the weak and empowers the strong? I must have missed something!

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Response to usaf-vet (Reply #13)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 11:59 AM

22. God tempers the wind to the shorn lamb . . .

and then kills it, I guess!

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Response to marie999 (Reply #4)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 11:05 AM

10. Currently Nancy Pelosi seems to get the blame for everything.

according to RWNJs

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 10:55 AM

6. Good one. Let it R.I.P.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 10:59 AM

8. Hopefully mounting sickness and rising deaths among reQublicans

might get a few to question why they vote reQublican

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Response to KS Toronado (Reply #8)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 11:40 AM

15. Historically, or seek to impose more voter restriction laws to always tip the scale in their favor.

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Response to usaf-vet (Reply #15)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 12:14 PM

26. I was thinking more along the lines of the average R voter

but you are correct, republicans in leadership roles will twist voting rights to their advantage.

from Army Vet '71-'73

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 11:01 AM

9. So you suggest letting sickness and death carry the message..,

Problem is, every day carries a story about some wanker “.., I should’a got the vaccine.”

We’ve all read them or seen ‘em on the 6 O’clock.

It just doesn’t get through to ‘em because…

The microchip.
The vac hasn’t been ‘proved by the E.P.A. ..
Jesus will see me through it.
Hillary’s emails.
If I ain’t gotten it yet,..

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 11:23 AM

11. As I recall, Andrew Sullivan publicly refused to use condoms during the AID's epidemic.

Because of Freedumb.

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Response to Midnight Writer (Reply #11)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 11:28 AM

12. yes, not sure why anyone would even listen to his opinion

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 11:38 AM

14. there's going to be a lot of first place ties for the Darwin Award.

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Response to LiberalLovinLug (Reply #14)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 01:28 PM

36. Damn straight! I say give them all award for having participated. The R.I.P Participation medallion.

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Response to usaf-vet (Reply #36)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 04:17 PM

38. lol

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 11:43 AM

16. There must be mandates, like measles, polio, all the rest. Government must insist. Period.

In this country you can't use your religion to withhold healthcare to your kids: The docs can get court orders. So it should be with the vax. Period.

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Response to lindysalsagal (Reply #16)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 11:55 AM

20. I agree 1000%

and if we can't pull that off, vaccination cards to be out in public. No vaccine?
Then you get to stay home as you are a threat to others.

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Response to lindysalsagal (Reply #16)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 12:21 PM

28. Yes. Much a more sensible and effective strategy.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 11:49 AM

17. The best thing we've got for the holdouts is rules that impact jobs, travel, & education...

The federal and state governments both have the legal right to set the terms of employment for their employees, who total in the tens of millions. California and NY are leading in the states, and Biden has laid down the hammer on federal employees & the military. That is an excellent start.

In addition, businesses also have that right, and some familiar names are letting it be known.

There’s hope that enough holdouts will see the light. Not all of them, by any means, but enough. Fingers crossed.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 11:52 AM

18. Not all equal

At least I understand the distrust the urban black community has.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 11:56 AM

21. He thinks he's so freaking sophisticated

by dropping a Samuel Johnson "concentrates the mind" reference. Responsible people would advocate a public policy that actually saves lives.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 12:01 PM

23. Yea, that's what I want, people dying from this virus (sarcasm) ...

Typical conservative attitude from Andrew Sullivan.

I don't believe that is the way to go, because it will extend the pandemic.

I believe that it was CDC that has announced that we are 2 maybe 3 strains away from the vaccine being non-effective.
That means having to produce a new vaccine, test then administer again, knowing these nut-jobs won't get vaccinated anyway, so it prolongs the pandemic while the virus mutates into a strain that will be resistant to anything we develop.

Those that can, get vaccinated. Those who can't, we need to protect by being vaccinated ourselves and have them tested periodically, so that this virus disappears completely, everywhere.

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Response to aggiesal (Reply #23)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 12:32 PM

31. Do you have any ideas

to encourage those who refuse to get the vaccine to do so?

I'm fresh out; Sullivan isn't advocating anything, just suggesting this could be their end game.

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Response to babylonsister (Reply #31)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 01:03 PM

33. Andrew Sullivan's statement ...

“So the obviously correct public policy is to let mounting sickness and rising deaths concentrate the minds of the recalcitrant. Let reality persuade the delusional and deranged. It has a pretty solid record of doing just that.”


Let reality persuade the delusional and deranged. Pretty much advocates get sick and/or die.

I think we should do what France is doing.
After announcing restrictions, more than 1.7M people made vaccination appointments within 24 hours.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/19/world/france-covid-vaccine-pass-protests.html

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Response to aggiesal (Reply #33)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 01:10 PM

34. I think we're to the point where

that would be a smart thing to do, though I suspect there'd be a growth industry of fake vax cards.

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Response to babylonsister (Reply #34)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 01:21 PM

35. Yea, I think the CDC screwed up the vaccine cards ...

With all the anti-counterfeit capability our government has, you'd think that they
could have made vaccine cards, credit card size and maybe even credit card like
with anti-counterfeit CDC Logo along with embossed information like name,
and dates vaccinated and which vaccine.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 12:07 PM

24. no justice for the innocent they drag along. nt

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 12:12 PM

25. We don't have enough hospital beds, doctors or nurses to follow this strategy.

Also, the cost of providing so much medical care would be astronomical, and it would have to be borne by the vaccinated survivors.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 12:23 PM

29. Has DU reached a place

where andrew sullivan is used as a source of policy?

Yipes.

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Response to Jakes Progress (Reply #29)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 12:30 PM

30. His opinion,

not a 'source of policy'. But he's got a point because so many of these yahoos aren't listening.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

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