So when the enemy sets up an IED on a road to attack the troops on their turf, that's evil.

[Zalatix]

But when Americans blow up people over there, ON THEIR TURF, who represent no threat to you and I over here ON OUR TURF, that's good?

Let's compare like for like here, why is going out of our way to kill them over there okay, but them killing intruders on their soil NOT okay?

Let me guess, it's that whole jingoism thing again?

[newfie11]

1. I totally agree nt

[NutmegYankee]

2. Point of clarification - It's not the Taliban's turf either

The Taliban are also invaders. And at least we can say that we are there with the permission of the democratically elected government.

[markpkessinger]

4. If the Taliban has the allegiance of Afghanis . . .

. . . who are we to call them "invaders?"

[NutmegYankee]

8. Because they invaded (from Pakistan), and they didn't have alliegence of the people.

They crushed the resistance. Classic invasion. I remember following the rise in 1996 and the efforts of the Northern Alliance to defeat them.

[Zalatix]

9. First of all, how do we even know who is a foreign invader?

And second of all, why the fuck does the United States even need to be involved? It ain't our fight.

[NutmegYankee]

17. How old are you?

Because no one of age a decade ago would ask such a silly question.

[Zalatix]

19. Well, I am asking, and it's apparent that as old as you are, you have no answer.

Let us say that I am old enough to know that Bush lied to get us over there.

[NutmegYankee]

23. Bush lied for Iraq. We were already in Afghanistan by then. nt

[Zalatix]

27. We've killed tens of thousands. 11 years of war over one incident.

We didn't even fight that long after Pearl Harbor.

What the fuck do you want, the army to grind all of Afghanistan into a graveyard over 9/11?

[NutmegYankee]

29. Meh, the Chechs tossing three guys in a dung heap led to 30 years of war.

We're still ahead.

[former-republican]

14. You just don't understand freedom

[Zalatix]

5. Please post proof here that our targets are the Taliban.

Got any? I'd like to see it. And NO, i am not going to just BELIEVE because someone orders me to fucking believe. Not happening. Ever. Period. I may not have been born when the Gulf of Tonkin hoax came along but I read history and I learn from it. And I was born when we were lied to about Saddam.

I'd like to see proof that
1) These so-called Taliban are foreign invaders and not citizens of the country; and
2) That they are not little more than declared enemies of the state.

#1 - because this may very well be a conflict between the government and its own citizens, which means we've got no reason to be intervening in an internal conflict; and
#2 - because these governments may be outsourcing to us to put down pockets of armed dissent.

I'm sure there are cases where outsiders are moving into foreign countries over there to cause trouble, but so far there is absolutely no proof of specific cases, that justify a specific attack by Americans. Any official that argues "just believe us, we know what's good for you" is full of shit and is not ever to be trusted. EVER.

Most importantly, however, there is no PROVEN threat posed by anyone in the Middle East to anyone on American soil. So whether or not we're invited by some foreign government or not, we still have no business being there. Any war powers act or other legal authority given to put troops or materiel out there is based on lies, and is thus fraudulent, therefore illegitimate.

[NutmegYankee]

11. The Taliban originated from Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam-run religious schools in Pakistan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban

Read up.

[Zalatix]

12. Your link does not show that the INDIVIDUALS that we're targeting, came from Pakistan.

For all we know, they're just people that the government of Afghanistan doesn't like.

Who knows?

Where is the proof?

And why does America need to be involved?

[NutmegYankee]

15. Invincible Ignorance nt

[Zalatix]

21. Unthinking warmongering and jingoism. n/t

[WooWooWoo]

25. well, the fact that they stopped shooting at me in september

and didn't start again until April, tells me they were waiting until the mountain passages were open again so they could come back in with their fresh stock of troops and supplies.

But what do I know, I was only there for a year.

[Zalatix]

28. You avoided my point entirely. We don't need to be there at all.

If you weren't there, they wouldn't be shooting at you.

Our Government needs to pull out. NOW.

[former-republican]

20. There are many Afghans that have joined the taliban

They are not all foreign fighters in the taliban , not even close...

[NutmegYankee]

22. I know, but the movement and the original fighting force came from Pakistan.

I remember reading about there takeover and the horrible atrocities they committed back in 96. I've disliked them ever since. I distinctly remember the assassination of Massoud, leader of the Northern Alliance on Sept 9, 2001.

[former-republican]

24. agreed

In some ways we are responsible for the breeding ground that happened after the Soviet war.

We could have done things differently.

[NutmegYankee]

30. Agree.

Our Cold War tactics and foreign policy were awful for many places whose only "crime" was to be between us and the Soviet union.

[lastlib]

3. 'Murika good, A-Rabs bad.

That's the mindset.

[former-republican]

6. you just don't understand democracy at work

[WinkyDink]

7. Sometimes it's messy.

Rummy.

[Honeycombe8]

10. The difference is intent and murder/terrorism vs. negligence.

The Americans are not trying to kill innocent people, and in fact, try not to harm anyone other than the intended targets.

The IED guys are committing acts of terror: that is, they are intentionally trying to kill innocent people, including troops who are not targeting them. Now, IF the IED guys are targets, that makes them the enemy in a time of war.

It's like fighting off the Nazis in France in WWII. A lot of French people got killed by allied troops. It was unintentional. That's not the same as murder/terrorism.

[Zalatix]

13. We should try harder. We have no business BEING there. We have no PROOF

that anyone we're hitting, are actually any threat to America.

Why do I feel like I said all this before, yet no one is addressing that?

[former-republican]

16. I'm going to tell you why we are there

We are there to destabilize it because the minute it does become stable.

Guess where all those foreign fighters go , with the Taliban?

[bluestate10]

18. We should keep some troops there until we have killed everyone that had the remotest role

in the 9/11/2001 attack on this country. I prefer Special Forces instead of regular troops.

[former-republican]

26. we pretty much already have

This isn't about 9/11 anymore.