HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Insurrectionists are goin...

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 08:05 AM

Insurrectionists are going to get light sentences.

So far the Biden administration has appointed 9 federal judges, president Biden has 24 nominees waiting confirmation. My point, there are a lot of Nazi judges out there. There is an article out today that 2 judges are challenging obstruction of Congress charges (a felony) against the 1/6 insurrectionists. They feel the charges are too harsh.

U.S. District Judge Amit P. Mehta asked how federal prosecutors distinguish felony conduct qualifying as “obstructing an official proceeding” of Congress — punishable by up to 20 years in prison — from misdemeanor offenses the government has charged others with, such as shouting to interrupt a congressional hearing.

I also read today that another insurrectionist was allowed to go home to await trial even though he violated the terms of his release.

8 months have passed since the insurrection, it sure appears to me that the GQP game plan is working, delay until they take back the House and then I guarantee that investigations will grind to a halt. Today is the day that phone records, social media records are to be turned over to Congress, I wait with bated breath.

52 replies, 1430 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 52 replies Author Time Post
Reply Insurrectionists are going to get light sentences. (Original post)
gab13by13 Sep 9 OP
KS Toronado Sep 9 #1
gab13by13 Sep 9 #4
KS Toronado Sep 9 #9
gab13by13 Sep 9 #16
kacekwl Sep 9 #7
Fullduplexxx Sep 9 #2
gab13by13 Sep 9 #3
StarfishSaver Sep 9 #5
Fullduplexxx Sep 9 #10
StarfishSaver Sep 9 #6
Hortensis Sep 9 #8
Chin music Sep 9 #11
lagomorph777 Sep 9 #21
gab13by13 Sep 9 #26
lagomorph777 Sep 9 #27
gab13by13 Sep 9 #35
lagomorph777 Sep 9 #36
gab13by13 Sep 9 #23
StarfishSaver Sep 9 #33
gab13by13 Sep 9 #37
StarfishSaver Sep 9 #42
Whiskeytide Sep 9 #12
Chin music Sep 9 #13
Whiskeytide Sep 9 #19
Chin music Sep 9 #25
gab13by13 Sep 9 #30
Chin music Sep 9 #32
lagomorph777 Sep 9 #22
Chin music Sep 9 #28
lagomorph777 Sep 9 #31
StarfishSaver Sep 9 #43
Chin music Sep 9 #46
StarfishSaver Sep 9 #49
Chin music Sep 9 #51
hardluck Sep 9 #14
Chin music Sep 9 #17
bottomofthehill Sep 9 #15
Chin music Sep 9 #18
Chainfire Sep 9 #20
lagomorph777 Sep 9 #24
Chainfire Sep 9 #34
Chin music Sep 9 #47
Chin music Sep 9 #29
bottomofthehill Sep 9 #38
StarfishSaver Sep 9 #45
gab13by13 Sep 9 #39
bottomofthehill Sep 9 #40
Chin music Sep 9 #48
Elessar Zappa Sep 9 #41
StarfishSaver Sep 9 #52
harumph Sep 9 #44
Chin music Sep 9 #50

Response to gab13by13 (Original post)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 08:23 AM

1. I seriously question if repugs can take back either house

4 years of Qrump were a disaster, now it's masks/vaccines are bad for you. I believe independent voters
(who decide most elections) will be out to punish reQublicOns. Plus The Lincoln Project aims to kill the party.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KS Toronado (Reply #1)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 08:33 AM

4. Gerrymandering gives them the lead

in taking back the House. A Democrat will never be elected in my district, ever, because of gerrymandering, and that was from the 2010 redistricting.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gab13by13 (Reply #4)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 08:57 AM

9. Gerrymandering does give them an advantage in red states,

the same way Gerrymandering gives us an advantage in blue states. For the People Act (if it gets passed)
will make it illegal leveling the playing field to our advantage. And we have states turning purple because
of their rotten Governors, think Texas & Florida. Plus we have The Lincoln Project who's goal is to kill the
reQublicOn party as we know it. My crystal ball sees us gaining seats in both the House & Senate.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KS Toronado (Reply #9)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 10:21 AM

16. Not true,

some states, like California use bipartisan people to do redistricting.

What is your definition of a red state? States that voted Democratic aren't likely to have their state Houses controlled by Democrats. I live in Pa. and the state legislature is controlled by Republicans. Every election in Pa. more people vote Democratic and Republicans gains seats.

Governors and Senators are not affected by gerrymandering, but are affected by voter suppression and Qanon election officials deciding who won.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KS Toronado (Reply #1)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 08:46 AM

7. You forget

they cheat.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gab13by13 (Original post)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 08:23 AM

2. Just sos ya know ...U.S. District Judge Amit P. Mehta in an obama appointee..nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fullduplexxx (Reply #2)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 08:30 AM

3. I guess we were lucky we didn't get a Trump judge.

He may have dismissed the case.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fullduplexxx (Reply #2)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 08:35 AM

5. He's the judge who ordered Trump's people to turn over his tax records

 

He's no lightweight or apologist.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #5)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 09:07 AM

10. Agreed... nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gab13by13 (Original post)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 08:37 AM

6. Whomp whomp

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #6)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 08:50 AM

8. :)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #6)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 09:10 AM

11. What's that supposed to mean?

Gabs position is valid. Regardless of who the judge is. By the looks of this post it seems you're ok with the light sentences.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chin music (Reply #11)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 10:30 AM

21. It would appear so.

Hell, it's just a little coup attempt, relax!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #21)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 10:35 AM

26. Exactly, I guess because the coup failed

we should relax. If a bank robber doesn't actually get any money before he is caught, no biggie.

I go back to your point. The coup was almost successful. I believe that Speaker Pelosi was instrumental in getting Congress back in session that night. Had the session been postponed I'm not so sure the coup would have failed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gab13by13 (Reply #26)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 10:37 AM

27. The coup hasn't failed yet.

It's moved into state legislatures and other GOP spider holes around the country.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #27)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 10:48 AM

35. Oh I agree with that,

The coup was based on the Big Lie and yet our DOJ allowed a bogus Cyber Ninja company to break federal law by gaining access to ballots, voting equipment, and other election materials in violation of Title 52 - Voting and Elections - Subtitle I and II. All the DOJ did was write a stern letter and so now these people are moving on to other states like mine, Pa.

No one of consequence has yet to be held accountable.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gab13by13 (Reply #35)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 10:53 AM

36. Scary as hell. No consequences for the ringleaders means big consequences for us.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #6)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 10:32 AM

23. Whomp whomp,

I'm just an internet lawyer, while you are a Constitutional lawyer. I still have a right to my opinion. My opinion is that the insurrection without a doubt qualifies as "obstructing an official proceeding of Congress."Should every insurrectionist be charged with that felong, no, I never said that, but making light of what happened, no, what almost happened would have been far worse than simply obstructing an official proceeding of Congress.

Wake me up when leaders of the insurrection get serious jail time.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gab13by13 (Reply #23)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 10:45 AM

33. Of course, you have a right to your opinion. As do I

 

If you're going to share your opinion about this on a public discussion board, you should not be surprised or upset if others with different opinions respond to you with those different opinions.

And my opinion is that the kind of naysaying you and others continually adhere to is counter-factual and overly-alarmist - and suggests a lack of understanding of how the legal system in general and large investigations such as this, in particular, actually proceed.

I'd be glad to "wake you up" when the leaders get serious jail time, if, in the meantime, you would settle down, let the investigators and prosecutors do what they need to do to get us where we want to go - and stop shouting "are we there yet?!" from the backseat every five minutes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #33)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 10:59 AM

37. I again disagree,

I believe that downplaying the insurrection, downplaying the results of the insurrection, states passing restrictive, many probably illegal, voting laws will make it much easier for the GQP to cheat is way back into power. When our DOJ allowed a bogus company to break federal laws it sent a message for other states to do the same and it gave the Big Lie more credibility, regardless of what the final Cyber Ninja report is.

I think that people who take the relax approach are falling into the GQP trap. The strategy of the GQP isn't mainly to win court cases, it is to delay court cases, in that regard I think they are winning. Time is a GQP ally and a Democratic enemy.

I also believe that the GQP winning back the House is 50/50 and if that happens it has ways to obstruct the 1/6 investigations.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gab13by13 (Reply #37)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 11:19 AM

42. Who is "downplaying" the insurrection?

 

Certainly not the Biden Administration or DOJ. The fact that you can't see every move their making does not mean they aren't pursuing justice. As people have said here, this is not an episode of Law and Order where we are privy to every aspect of the investigation as it plays out on our tv screens and everything is wrapped up in 48 minutes. Doing an investigation right takes time and it's not done in public.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gab13by13 (Original post)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 09:29 AM

12. Most of the defendants who have pled out ...

… thus far have been small potatoes. They have no criminal histories (or at least not much), and were guilty of entering the capitol building and walking around, posting their adventures on Facebook, and generally embarrassing themselves on the internet.

That’s not to take their conduct lightly, but just doing that probably doesn’t deserve significant jail time anyway. A misdemeanor conviction is about right, I think.

I’ll wait to see what kind of sentence people like “zip-tie guy” gets. Anyone filmed actually striking officers at the entrance points. The Molotov cocktail guy (who has now pled guilty and is awaiting sentencing). Those guys need felony convictions and at least several years in a federal correctional facility. If they are wrist slapped, I’ll acknowledge we have a real problem with justice for these assholes.

As for the statute, it’s a pretty standard argument to make in many criminal cases that the criminal statute at issue is vague. I don’t think the felony charge has a lot of precedent (insurrections have been rare in our society), so it needs to be challenged. The fact that Mehta is looking at that issue just means he’s doing his job. There are good reasons to prevent the government from prosecuting people under a vague law. It protects all of us.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Whiskeytide (Reply #12)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 09:41 AM

13. For me it's the appearance of it.

So far we have had few jail sentences that appear to really be painful to these folks. Jail time does two things, punish, and deter. So far it doesn't seem like too much of either has happened bc we have insurrection 2.0 already planned for Sept 18th. They victimized the entire nation. And every democracy our military and soldiers have died to help install for better lives in those nations. Slaps on the wirst doesn't cut it for me. Brave people have DIED to secure Democracy. Not ONE of those 'tourist' insurrectionists didn't know what was going on around them. The trmp flags, confederate flags, the noise, smoke, gunshot, screaming and yelling? Please. It wasn't even open to the public that day.
Second offense Domestic violence in my state is a one year jail sentence, and it almost always gets handed down. Drunk driving same same. Also, if you reduce pleas to misdemeanors, they already got a break. If we go easy on these folks it will happen again. We can see the results from this time.
The Judge said the prosecutors were charging too lightly several times. I agree, these crimes aren't charged often, but, they are statutory crimes nonetheless and the American people need to feel confident we all won't suffer this horror again. 2/3rds of this nation were traumatized that day and ever since. Longer sentences are warranted imho.
PS...It's not just the jail time. The fines and costs are woefully WAY too low. When they start shooting next time and bullet holes are in all our Capitol Buildings, who's going to pay for all that restoration? Repubs constantly say, "Where are we getting the money for that?" I ask them the same question. Why should law abiding America loving Americans pay for the damage from this fiasco, or the next?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chin music (Reply #13)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 10:26 AM

19. I agree with the sentiment of your post. But keep ...

… in mind that this process takes a while. There are quite a few obstacles a criminal defendant can throw up to postpone the conclusion of a case.

I’m not really worried about the real estate broker or the cabinet shop manager who went to the capitol, joined the crowd, waved their flags and wore their shirts, shouted stupid things, entered the building and milled around for a little while filming himself or herself “havin’ a revolushun”. They’re idiots and trouble-makers, certainly, but they don’t pose a significant threat to our government.

I’m considerably more concerned about the guys who injured police officers with weapons, had radios communicating with other members of their squad, wore tactical gear and kept their faces covered, brought bear spray and zip-ties, and DID NOT film their actions because they were smart enough not to do that. They were organized. They had a serious purpose and a plan.

Those guys either haven’t been caught (because they took counter measures) or are sitting in a jail cell completely silent, prolonging the process as much as they can. They are NOT idiots. They are NOT rolling over on their “teams”. They are genuinely dangerous.

I think prosecutors want those guys. When they have an idiot on the docket, and they have confirmed the idiot really can’t give them testimony to prosecute one of these really bad guys, they plead them out to a misdemeanor to clear the docket.

But I get your point too. As I said, if these truly bad guys start getting off with light to no punishment, I’ll change my tune quickly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Whiskeytide (Reply #19)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 10:34 AM

25. I hear you. Some considerations please.

Soldiers have died to keep some things sacred. DIED. Closed their eyes on the battlefield hoping their life wasn't given in vain. Or screaming for their moms or dads. That to me is an important significance that shouldn't be passed over for the whims of a few thousand ginned up ignorants. How does this honor folks who have come home so injured their lives will never be normal again? To the point of suicide for many. The Capitol and Wash DC isn't a place to let this slide. Like they said, "It's the PEOPLES house." 2/3rds of us still honor that place. To me, the seat of our Govt is a different place to be doing these things, and , they planned ahead to go there. Lot's of considerations for sure. This wasn't an ordinary day imho. I dunno. In the grand scheme of things, this just seems like way too much patty cake. Civil people can disagree though. That's DU. Be well.
PS..the buildings of Wash DC are symbols of American democracy. Peace. Honor and all the rest. They shit on all of us because trmp lost an election and is afraid he'll be accountable for all his crimes. These folks were an extension of everything evil. And the whole world saw it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chin music (Reply #25)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 10:41 AM

30. Not only that,

good post by the way, the main strategy for these traitors is to delay everything. I just shudder when I hear people here say, this takes time, I understand they are right, to a point. If the GQP regains the House they have all kinds of options to use to squash the 1/6 investigations.

Today is the day that phone records and emails are to be turned over to Congress. I await patiently for the good news.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gab13by13 (Reply #30)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 10:43 AM

32. Ty. Yours too.

We both await the results.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chin music (Reply #13)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 10:31 AM

22. Sentenced to two weeks at hard party in Cancun.

You don't think they will learn their lesson from that?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #22)


Response to Chin music (Reply #28)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 10:43 AM

31. If you really wanna punish them, send 'em to Mar A Guano.

Make them sit through a series of MAGAT weddings and MyPillow/Hobby Lobby conventions.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chin music (Reply #13)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 11:21 AM

43. Jail sentences in plea bargains are always more lenient

 

The only sentences that have been handed down so far have been the result of plea bargains, which almost always result in lighter sentences. That's the point: Defendants bargain with the prosecution to plead guilty and accept a conviction in exchange for getting a lighter sentence. It's a win for the government because it saves time, money and, most important, avoids the risk of an acquittal or mistrial.

When the people who refuse to plea bargain go to trial and are convicted (fingers crossed because convictions are never a sure thing), we will see much stiffer sentences.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #43)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 11:27 AM

46. That's true generally.

But when you plea down from an already undercharged set of charges, it looks like a complete travesty. Some crimes shouldn't be allowed to plea down. Prosecutors can refuse to accept a plea request. The stakes are too high here.
From what we both know though, most prosecutors are republicans so this really, is why they weren't charged heavier, and are now allowed to plea down. The signal being "We really agree with what you did, and feel free to let er rip again next time."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chin music (Reply #46)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 11:33 AM

49. Fortunately, you are not making the prosecution decisions in this matter

 

FYI, you have absolutely no idea the political affiliation of the prosecutors in this investigation. And you don't seem to understand how the criminal justice system works in the real world or why prosecutors don't just refuse to get a conviction through a plea bargain and instead try to mount hundreds of prosecutions and roll the dice and hope they'll get convictions with a stiffer sentence when the cases finally get to a jury in a few years.

Only people living in an alternate reality will view felony convictions and jail time as "We really agree with what you did, and feel free to let er rip again next time."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #49)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 11:36 AM

51. FYI a sideways insult to a DU'er is still an insult and against the rules of this forum.

Contrary to your belief, you don't know me or what I know. My post stands despite the ugliness.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gab13by13 (Original post)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 09:59 AM

14. Weird that Obama appointed a Nazi judge

Would have thought he’d have done more due diligence. Or maybe the judge actually believes the statute at issue is unconstitutionally vague and isn’t a Nazi. Hmm

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hardluck (Reply #14)


Response to gab13by13 (Original post)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 09:59 AM

15. I grow angrier and angrier by the day

These fucking people belong in jail. They participated in an armed insurrection. They attacked police officers and democracy itself, they tried to overthrow our government by threat, intimidation and violence. People died due to their actions, people were physically and emotionally (leading to 4 suicides) wounded.

They belong in jail for a long time. This is not justice.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bottomofthehill (Reply #15)


Response to gab13by13 (Original post)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 10:29 AM

20. Light sentences for these traitors allows them to "earn their bones" for the movement.

They will be considered patriots and martyrs for the cause; true patriots who were present at the modern day Lexington and Concord, and have the written record to prove it.

These people were traitors, attacking our Democracy! I think that anyone who entered the Capitol Building need long, hard sentences as a lesson to those who would like to follow in their footsteps. Harsh discipline now may change the fence-setter's minds about how they want to behave in the future.

The next time they come, they will bring their guns.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chainfire (Reply #20)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 10:33 AM

24. Next time they come (Sept 18th) the government had better bring its guns.

Meet them with a wall of automatic weapons. One false move, they get mowed down.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #24)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 10:45 AM

34. I firmly believe that there will come a time when we have to demonstrate our will to protect

Democracy. We may pass or fail that test. It would not be the first time that a mighty nation was brought down by a dedicated, minority of radicals who didn't mind shedding the blood of others in their quest for power.

Jan. 6 was a warmup. Unless the traitors face harsh punishment, it is no longer a matter of if the next shot "heard around the world" happens, but when, where and under who's leadership.

I truly believe, that if we could have a meeting with the nation's founders, their question would be, "Why haven't you hung the ringleaders yet?"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chainfire (Reply #34)


Response to Chainfire (Reply #20)


Response to Chainfire (Reply #20)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 11:03 AM

38. Totally agree!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chainfire (Reply #20)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 11:24 AM

45. No.

 

Light sentences are given in exchange for them pleading guilty to crimes. The system cannot tolerate holding trials in every one of these cases. The result would be acquittals or dropped charges.

Plea bargains allow prosecutors to get sure convictions - which are never guaranteed if cases go to trial - and get these smaller potatoes out of the way and enables them to focus their efforts and resources on investigating, charging and prosecuting the more culpable players.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gab13by13 (Original post)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 11:04 AM

39. I again shudder when I hear people say,

but many insurrectionists just milled about and didn't do any damage, kinda like the get away driver for bank robbers, he just drove a car, had nothing to do with the actual bank robbery.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gab13by13 (Reply #39)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 11:05 AM

40. The crowd provided protection for the violence.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bottomofthehill (Reply #40)


Response to gab13by13 (Original post)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 11:08 AM

41. Prosecutors

hit people with charges that they know would stick. If they were charged with sedition, they would probably be exonerated.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Elessar Zappa (Reply #41)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 11:37 AM

52. Sigh ...

 

You can't please some people.

"They're not DOING anything! Where are the indictments and convictions?! What are we WAITING for?!"

"They're indicting and getting convictions of lots of insurrectionists."

"Those convictions don't count because they're plea bargains. They need to put them on trial and throw the book at them!"

"But if they do that, it could take years to go to trial and then they might not even get a conviction."

"That's fine. It's worth taking the chance. I'm willing to wait."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gab13by13 (Original post)

Thu Sep 9, 2021, 11:23 AM

44. Well, Mehta, and I'm just spitballing here...

Shouting is verbal and while it may disrupt or interrupt, it does not physically obstruct.
Sitting in the peanut gallery and shouting is different than charging the floor and breaking shit
in an attempt to physically intimidate and frankly scare off representatives charged with
certifying a vote count.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to harumph (Reply #44)

Reply to this thread