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Tue Sep 14, 2021, 07:28 PM

So Republicans (and others) think Milley committed treason

No he didn’t; He obeyed his oath.

I ___, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God. (Title 5 U.S. Code 3331, an individual, except the President, elected or appointed to an office of honor or profit in the civil service or uniformed services)

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Reply So Republicans (and others) think Milley committed treason (Original post)
USAFRetired_Liberal Sep 14 OP
paleotn Sep 14 #1
TallJohn Sep 14 #2
USAFRetired_Liberal Sep 14 #3
Hugh_Lebowski Sep 14 #6
TallJohn Sep 14 #8
mzmolly Sep 14 #10
hlthe2b Sep 14 #16
Prof. Toru Tanaka Sep 14 #12
FuzzyRabbit Sep 14 #17
wnylib Sep 14 #26
Jon King Sep 14 #38
dflprincess Sep 14 #25
Midnight Writer Sep 14 #4
Moostache Sep 14 #7
Rebl2 Sep 14 #14
mzmolly Sep 14 #11
LiberalArkie Sep 14 #15
FakeNoose Sep 14 #39
msongs Sep 14 #5
harumph Sep 14 #9
Patton French Sep 14 #13
Lonestarblue Sep 14 #18
LetMyPeopleVote Sep 14 #19
quakerboy Sep 14 #20
AverageOldGuy Sep 14 #23
stopdiggin Sep 14 #30
quakerboy Sep 15 #45
AverageOldGuy Sep 14 #21
dflprincess Sep 14 #22
AverageOldGuy Sep 14 #24
Retrograde Sep 14 #27
Snackshack Sep 14 #28
NoMoreRepugs Sep 14 #29
usaf-vet Sep 14 #31
sinkingfeeling Sep 14 #32
Buckeye_Democrat Sep 14 #33
Sugarcoated Sep 14 #34
TeamProg Sep 14 #35
gab13by13 Sep 14 #36
Jon King Sep 14 #37
Ilsa Sep 14 #40
Xolodno Sep 14 #41
bringthePaine Sep 14 #42
Irish_Dem Sep 15 #43
liberalla Sep 15 #44

Response to USAFRetired_Liberal (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 07:31 PM

1. Bingo!!

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Response to USAFRetired_Liberal (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 07:31 PM

2. So you think Alex Vindman is a repub?

 

Could be.


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Response to TallJohn (Reply #2)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 07:32 PM

3. I will adjust my OP to say and others

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Response to TallJohn (Reply #2)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 07:36 PM

6. I tend to disagree with Vindman, because Milley did not give any orders outside his authority.

I kinda doubt that the President is consulted every time any General talks to their military counterpart in another country.

But I certainly knew that Republicans would flip out over this news.

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Response to Hugh_Lebowski (Reply #6)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 07:46 PM

8. Well, I don't disagree with him

 

If the report is true, and right now I consider the source, it sets a dangerous precedence.

There is a reason for civilian control over the military.
The hatred of Trump does not negate that.
In my opinion.
Yours may vary.
You may have more trust in the Pentagon than I do.

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Response to TallJohn (Reply #8)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 07:49 PM

10. The most dangerous

precedent, is one where those in power, do not defend the US Constitution.

I admire Vindman, but I disagree with him on this. Trump won a questionable Presidential race (with the assistance of Russia) and was attempting a coup.

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Response to mzmolly (Reply #10)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 08:47 PM

16. THIS

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Response to TallJohn (Reply #8)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 07:51 PM

12. The problem was that the civilian in control of the military



was and is a narcissistic, crazed sociopath.

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Response to TallJohn (Reply #8)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 08:48 PM

17. Question: Are you saying that

if Trump (or any president) was to, out of the blue, order a nuclear strike on Iran or China, that the Air Force and Navy has to carry out the attack without questioning the order?

I trust Milley much more than I trust loose cannon Donald Trump.

My apologies if I misunderstood your comment.

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Response to TallJohn (Reply #8)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:04 PM

26. Yes, it is a bad precedent, but given

the situation and danger, what else could he do?

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Response to wnylib (Reply #26)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:16 PM

38. Precedents have to be set when faced with a new and unforeseen threat.

Milley is a patriot.

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Response to TallJohn (Reply #2)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:01 PM

25. I admire Vindman but if he wants to worry about a general behaving inappropriately

let's talk about Charles Flynn.

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Response to USAFRetired_Liberal (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 07:34 PM

4. How many Republicans signed a letter to Iran telling them not to negotiate with Obama?

How many Republicans went to Moscow to celebrate the Fourth of July with Putin?

How much money did Trump's NSA accept from foreign dictators?

How many Republicans refused to certify the last Presidential election because their guy lost?

How many Republicans accept money from donors who want the USA to be a fascist country?

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Response to Midnight Writer (Reply #4)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 07:38 PM

7. Well said...more directly:

How many Republicans voted to acquit Trump of 2 impeachments, both aimed at subverting the government of the several states into the banana republic of Trumpistan?

Republicans getting verklempt about treason is high comedy.

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Response to Moostache (Reply #7)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 08:01 PM

14. Absolutely right!

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Response to Midnight Writer (Reply #4)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 07:50 PM

11. Exactly!

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Response to Midnight Writer (Reply #4)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 08:18 PM

15. How many Republicans asked Iran not to release the hostages until Ronnie was in office?

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Response to Midnight Writer (Reply #4)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:17 PM

39. Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes!!!

The Repukes lost their moral compass when Chump became their nominee in 2016.

(well ... they really didn't have one by then ... just sayin')

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Response to USAFRetired_Liberal (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 07:35 PM

5. gee we thought the generals defying hitler was a good thing. nt

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Response to USAFRetired_Liberal (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 07:46 PM

9. It sounds like there were no other options left to keep nukes

out of the hands of a madman. It shouldn't have happened - but the last four years
have introduced us to a number of firsts.

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Response to USAFRetired_Liberal (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 07:51 PM

13. You nailed it!

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Response to USAFRetired_Liberal (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 08:49 PM

18. I disagree with Vindman on this situation.

General Milley simply prepared for a potential problem—he did not directly countermand an order by Trump. He simply took a step to make sure that he was in the loop should Trump go around him, as he was known to do, and order a military action. Whether Milley would have refused such a direct Trump order to launch a nuclear attack is not known since Trump did not issue any such order, though we can guess that General Milley would have met with Trump to try to talk him out of it.

Would those who are now castigating General Milley have preferred that the military blindly launch a nuclear attack on Iran on Trump’s order? That is the madness to me.

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Response to USAFRetired_Liberal (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 08:50 PM

19. Who cares?

Milly saved our country and we should be grateful

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Response to USAFRetired_Liberal (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 08:55 PM

20. Im on the fence

Putting the nuclear weapons chain of approval under tight lock with added oversight, i dont have a problem with.

If the orders had been given and denied.. that would be a crisis that would need some deep consideration. But they werent, so its a non issue.

Calling the Chinese general.. I have questions about. Is that sort of call normal operating procedure? Does it fall within what is legal for a general to do? I honestly dont know, but it feels very iffy to me as a complete non-expert.

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Response to quakerboy (Reply #20)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 08:58 PM

23. Senior commanders . . . .

. . . maintain contact with allies and adversaries in their areas of responsibility. Such communications are two-way -- the allies or adversaries contact us also. It's known as CBM -- Confidence Building Measures. It's intended to prevent an incident from turning into a war.

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Response to AverageOldGuy (Reply #23)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:30 PM

30. thank you. that was a question

in my own mind as well. If - or how much - this overstepped the bounds of rank and duty - I think is a question best left to the military. I find the violation of chain of command assertion --- tenuous, perhaps overblown.

What is readily apparent - and deeply unfortunate - is undeniable strain (perhaps to the point of cracks and raw damage) that the Trump presidency put on the military - just as it did the rest of our democracy/republic. IMO, the military performed well - but I'm not at all sure that they emerged unscathed.

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Response to AverageOldGuy (Reply #23)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 10:51 PM

45. I appreciate that clarification

That makes me uneasy, to be honest, even while it makes good sense. Something about the idea of military elites of many countries having their own communication networks outside of civilian leadership is uncomfortable. And yet, that is how it is in any other facet of human endeavor, so it makes sense.

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Response to USAFRetired_Liberal (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 08:57 PM

21. Milley did exactly what had been done before

Nixon's Chief of Staff, GEN Al Haig, was very disturbed about Nixon wandering the halls of the White House, talking with Lincoln's ghost and asking about the nuclear codes.

Haig contacted SECDEF Schlesinger and CJCS Brown (GEN, USAF). Schlesinger and Brown issued an eye-only directive to the Combatant Commanders, told them they are not to obey any orders from the White House that were not countersigned by SECDEF and CJCS, and, if they received orders from the WH about nuclear weapons or troop movements, they were to contact SECDEF and CJCS immediately.

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Response to USAFRetired_Liberal (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 08:57 PM

22. Didn't the Joint Chiefs make it clear in the last few months of the Nixon administration

that orders coming from the White House should be relayed to them & they would make the decision on whether or not they should be folllowed?

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Response to dflprincess (Reply #22)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 08:59 PM

24. Exactly

SECDEF Schlesinger and CJCS Brown.

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Response to USAFRetired_Liberal (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:15 PM

27. Treason is rather narrowly defined in the Constitution

"Article III, Section 3, Clause 1: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

Miley clearly didn't do the first, and the second is a rather large stretch. I'd argue that by the constitutional definition, Trump and his supporters on January 6 are more guilty of treason by dint of attempting to subvert the Constitution.

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Response to USAFRetired_Liberal (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:22 PM

28. The General...

Was in a place no General has ever before been in, in the history of our country. He was dealing with a CinC who was literally trying to destroy democracy and he had very little help from anyone in congress. I will give him a little leeway in how he handled the situation if for no other reason than his missteps and all were on the side of maintaining a world free of nuclear conflict and the continuation of our Democracy…imagine if Flynn had been in that position?

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Response to USAFRetired_Liberal (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:27 PM

29. Milly himself was witnessing the SlobFather's deteriorating

mental state - not getting something second hand from a staffer. He performed his duties to the country perfectly by defending it from a domestic enemy - the Orange Buffoon.

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Response to USAFRetired_Liberal (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:46 PM

31. ///

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Response to USAFRetired_Liberal (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:50 PM

32. The Constitution is very clear:

Article III, Section 3, Clause 1: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

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Response to USAFRetired_Liberal (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:52 PM

33. This was always my biggest concern about Trump.

He'd order nuclear missiles to be launched, and worse, he'd do it only to help preserve his own power.

And there were usually a few people, even on DU, declaring how it would never happen because of supposed "safeguards".

As I understand it, Milley wasn't alone in his concerns even among the Republicans working inside the White House.

And he never ordered anyone to outright disobey the President's orders, but to share the orders with a broader audience because of concerns about Trump's mental state.

A mental state which was extremely disturbing to me far earlier, even before Trump was President, but it obviously takes some people longer to reach similar assessments.

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Response to USAFRetired_Liberal (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:57 PM

34. General Milley is a patriot

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Response to USAFRetired_Liberal (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:58 PM

35. Milley was preventing Trump from committing treason.


A made up war or bombing done as a red herring is an act of treason b/c that act weakens our security.

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Response to USAFRetired_Liberal (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:10 PM

36. I'm just fine with GQPers talking about this every day,

every news segment. This is called controlling the narrative, let them call out Milly it shines a bright light on a crazy former president.

Keep it in the news, let's discuss what Milly did and why he did it.

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Response to USAFRetired_Liberal (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:13 PM

37. Did someone actually say it "sets a bad precedent"??

Huh?? Name one other US President in the nuclear era who was acting like a tyrant, unbalance, saying a democratic election was rigged, surrounded by no one but sycophants, was replacing senior personnel in intelligence and Pentagon?

Trump made Nixon look like a lover of democracy and relatively stable.

Heck, OF COURSE Milley had to set a precedent, because what he saw was without precedent. Gee, stopping a madman from sending nukes, what a tough decision....I am sure he would have rather been court martialed than let that happen.

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Response to USAFRetired_Liberal (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:20 PM

40. So many people in his administration were already gone.

I don't blame Milley one bit for insisting he gets orders run by him since the few remaining were trump's ass-kissers.

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Response to USAFRetired_Liberal (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:35 PM

41. This is why Congress needs to take back the power....

...to declare war.

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Response to USAFRetired_Liberal (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 11:03 PM

42. wildly dangerous president requires dangerous precedent - be grateful

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Response to USAFRetired_Liberal (Original post)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 11:39 AM

43. He did talk to Nancy Pelosi, high ranked civilian leader.

She was in the loop.

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Response to USAFRetired_Liberal (Original post)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 06:31 PM

44. He obeyed his oath. I agree.

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