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Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:03 PM

The NVC rejected my marriage certification. My wife's Green Card is dead

The US Government has successfully broken my family apart. Anyone who talks to me about DREAMers while ignoring people like my wife who tried doing it the "legal" way and got mistreated from day one by the US Government will get an earful from me from now on.

My wife has asked me to complete my contract here and then go back home. June 1st will be my last day in my country for the rest of my life. I will not allow anyone in this government to hurt my wife ever again.

But, as an immigration attorney told me today, there is a deep anti-Chinese sentiment in all levels of immigration and Trump made it worse.

I am officially suspending my campaign for Arizona House.

On edit: Anyone who says "China" as a pejorative I will report immediately for bigotry. It's not China. It's the Chinese Communist Party or the Chinese Government. "China" means people like my wife. DU should never use country names to attack their government, since my wife, her family, our friends, and my former students ARE NOT part of that.

My wife already wonders why Americans hate her so much, based on comments on this board, news of attacks on Chinese and Asian people, and our history like the Chinese Exclusion Act.

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Reply The NVC rejected my marriage certification. My wife's Green Card is dead (Original post)
AZLD4Candidate Sep 14 OP
elleng Sep 14 #1
XanaDUer2 Sep 14 #2
AZLD4Candidate Sep 14 #10
Ilsa Sep 16 #173
AZLD4Candidate Sep 16 #178
BoycottTimHortons Saturday #187
stillcool Sep 14 #3
CanonRay Sep 14 #4
AZLD4Candidate Sep 14 #7
Demovictory9 Sep 14 #14
discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 15 #135
AZLD4Candidate Sep 15 #137
discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 15 #139
AZLD4Candidate Sep 15 #140
discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 15 #141
AZLD4Candidate Sep 15 #142
discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 15 #143
discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 15 #145
JCMach1 Sep 16 #171
Skittles Sep 14 #5
blm Sep 14 #6
AZLD4Candidate Sep 14 #8
joetheman Sep 14 #15
AZLD4Candidate Sep 14 #17
DFW Sep 15 #110
AZLD4Candidate Sep 15 #151
DFW Sep 15 #155
AZLD4Candidate Sep 15 #156
sheshe2 Sep 14 #9
MustLoveBeagles Sep 14 #11
BigmanPigman Sep 14 #12
Post removed Sep 14 #13
AZLD4Candidate Sep 14 #18
Hortensis Sep 14 #28
AZLD4Candidate Sep 14 #31
Duppers Sep 14 #49
Celerity Sep 14 #38
shrike3 Sep 14 #48
Duppers Sep 14 #51
summer_in_TX Sep 14 #81
JonAndKatePlusABird Sep 14 #86
AZLD4Candidate Sep 15 #146
Withywindle Sep 15 #101
jcgoldie Sep 15 #153
Celerity Sep 14 #42
AZLD4Candidate Sep 14 #43
Celerity Sep 14 #56
AZLD4Candidate Sep 14 #58
Celerity Sep 14 #61
liberalhistorian Sep 14 #89
mopinko Sep 15 #103
PufPuf23 Sep 14 #16
panader0 Sep 14 #19
AZLD4Candidate Sep 14 #20
panader0 Sep 14 #23
AZLD4Candidate Sep 14 #24
getagrip_already Sep 14 #21
AZLD4Candidate Sep 14 #22
Hassin Bin Sober Sep 14 #25
AZLD4Candidate Sep 14 #30
Hassin Bin Sober Sep 14 #32
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Patton French Sep 15 #108
JCMach1 Sep 16 #176
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Jarqui Sep 14 #78
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alphafemale Sep 14 #26
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DFW Sep 15 #112
AZLD4Candidate Sep 16 #181
Bettie Sep 14 #34
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keithbvadu2 Sep 14 #47
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keithbvadu2 Sep 14 #65
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AZLD4Candidate Sep 14 #83
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Politicub Sep 14 #55
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Irish_Dem Sep 15 #109
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Jakes Progress Sep 14 #72
DFW Sep 15 #114
AZLD4Candidate Sep 15 #129
DFW Sep 15 #132
OrangeJoe Sep 15 #158
AZLD4Candidate Sep 15 #159
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DFW Sep 17 #185
Deep State Witch Sep 15 #124
DFW Sep 16 #177
AZLD4Candidate Sep 16 #183
onecaliberal Sep 14 #73
marble falls Sep 14 #75
AZLD4Candidate Sep 14 #76
Hekate Sep 14 #79
Tadpole Raisin Sep 14 #80
summer_in_TX Sep 14 #82
AZLD4Candidate Sep 14 #85
summer_in_TX Sep 15 #168
keithbvadu2 Sep 14 #87
LeftInTX Sep 14 #88
Hobo Sep 14 #90
relayerbob Sep 15 #91
MLAA Sep 15 #92
electric_blue68 Sep 15 #95
usedtobedemgurl Sep 15 #97
Willis88 Sep 15 #98
halfulglas Sep 15 #99
moonscape Sep 15 #125
OnDoutside Sep 15 #102
DFW Sep 15 #117
OnDoutside Sep 15 #123
DFW Sep 15 #130
OnDoutside Sep 15 #157
Ace Rothstein Sep 15 #104
Elessar Zappa Sep 15 #105
Ace Rothstein Sep 15 #111
Elessar Zappa Sep 15 #116
DFW Sep 15 #118
honest.abe Sep 15 #119
OrangeJoe Sep 15 #160
Joinfortmill Sep 15 #120
Escurumbele Sep 15 #121
former9thward Sep 15 #133
eppur_se_muova Sep 15 #122
AZLD4Candidate Sep 15 #127
eppur_se_muova Sep 15 #134
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ismnotwasm Sep 15 #131
Treefrog Sep 15 #144
Willis88 Sep 15 #164
KT2000 Sep 15 #147
AZLD4Candidate Sep 15 #149
Mr. Evil Sep 15 #163
Celerity Sep 15 #167
LittleGirl Sep 15 #148
JuJuChen Sep 15 #154
PatrickforB Sep 15 #162
Ilsa Sep 16 #174
Johonny Saturday #188
AZLD4Candidate Saturday #189
Trueblue1968 Sunday #190

Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:04 PM

1. ;-(

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:04 PM

2. I'm so sorry for you and your wife nt

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Response to XanaDUer2 (Reply #2)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:18 PM

10. My Trumper sister in law says "this proves she doesn't deserve to be here."

I've cut off my brother because of her.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #10)

Thu Sep 16, 2021, 02:33 PM

173. I don't blame you one bit.

Life is hard enough without listening to hateful crap from family. I've cut off communications from one sibling.

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #173)

Thu Sep 16, 2021, 03:03 PM

178. I asked my brother what he thought of my wife the first time he met her

His response: "Not much."

That started the bridge burning.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #178)

Sat Sep 18, 2021, 06:39 PM

187. I don't blame you

Would do the same tbqh.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:08 PM

3. that's awful...

sorry for you both.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:10 PM

4. So sorry about this

Is there any possibility of getting a Dem Congressmen involved?

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Response to CanonRay (Reply #4)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:12 PM

7. My Dem Rep in Arizona told me "we consider this matter closed" and literally hung up on me

Kelly has ignored me and lied to me about communication since March

Sinema's office has offered a multitude of platitudes, then told me "the law is the law."

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #7)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:23 PM

14. horrible

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #7)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 01:33 PM

135. Consider contacting Catherine Cortez Masto...

...who is up for reelection next year. Her grandfather immigrated from Mexico.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #135)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 01:45 PM

137. Not my Representative. They will refer me to my elected officials.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #137)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 02:03 PM

139. Not a representative at all.

She is a Senator representing the whole state.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #139)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 02:39 PM

140. Not my senators. Mine are Kelly and Sinema

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #140)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 02:53 PM

141. I'm confused. I've been looking at Nevada

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #141)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 02:54 PM

142. I don't live in Nevada. I live in Arizona.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #142)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 02:55 PM

143. Just caught that.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #142)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 03:05 PM

145. I guess don't look to a Congressperson for immigration help in odd numbered years.



This is really awful, them telling you "the law is the law" while the law says that these decisions are not based in any legal criteria but just up to the arbitrary and capricious opinions of low level bureaucrats.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #7)

Thu Sep 16, 2021, 02:30 PM

171. The office that was helpful to me when I was getting my wife through

Legal immigration (I know some of your pain and frustration) was of all people Sen. Marco Rubio.



Yep, that one.

He was extremely helpful.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:12 PM

5. I have a lot of Chinese "virtual coworkers"

wonderful folk

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:12 PM

6. So sorry this is happening to you both.

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Response to blm (Reply #6)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:13 PM

8. Two Democrats wrote these laws in 1952.

And Democrats today are doing nothing.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #8)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:23 PM

15. Democrats in 1952 were Dixicrats. Today there is no excuse.

So sorry this happened to you and your wife. Sickened that you have no Dem advocate. Who is your Rep? Maybe we all could help out????

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Response to joetheman (Reply #15)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:24 PM

17. Raul Grijalva

Francis Walter was from PA, Pat McCarran was from NV. Not Dixiecrats

Francis Walter became the president of the Pioneer Fund, which funded Charles Murray's "The Bell Curve."

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #17)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 09:53 AM

110. Grijalva is your rep and did nothing?

Not even a letter of regret or advice? That doesn't sound like him.

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Response to DFW (Reply #110)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 05:08 PM

151. Nope. They dropped it like a bad habit after the CBP refused my wife entry to do her Adjustment of

Status on her B2 visa.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #151)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 05:22 PM

155. That is rather disappointing

He always came across to me as a good guy, although I was never in a position to need anything from him. I would assume his English is fluent, but we always spoke in Spanish, so I never really got to find out one on one. Also, immigration was not a subject that ever came up between us, as it was pretty obvious I wasn't directly affected by the issue. A native speaker of Spanish will instantly recognize my continental Spain accent, and therefore surmise (correctly) that I am no expert on the subject of border issues.

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Response to DFW (Reply #155)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 05:37 PM

156. According to a friend of mine who knows his wife (because she is a patron of their business)

Unless you are Mexican, he has no interest in helping you.

He's helping my superintendent, whose wife is going through what mine is going through, but she is in Nogales and Mexican. Mine is in Shanghai and Chinese.

My friend calls him useless and worthless, as Raul is all talk and no action unless it makes him look good in his community.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:15 PM

9. I am so sorry.

That is just not right.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:19 PM

11. I sorry this has happened to you and your wife

It shouldn't be this way.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:19 PM

12. That really pisses me off!!!

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #13)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:27 PM

18. how dare you insult my patriotism? My family comes first

How dare you!

I've spent close to $7,000 out of my own pocket on my campaign.

When you go through what my wife and I have gone through for the last 14 months, including three missed birthdays and two missed anniversaries, you can shed your self-righteous indignation at me.

Until then, you need to apologize for questions my motives for running. I need to do for MY family first. As Rabbi Hillel said: "If I am not for me, who will be." Based on your disrespectful, haughty, and flippant response, you wouldn't even if you could.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #18)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:45 PM

28. I read your post, AZ. If I were in your district

I would feel you lack the commitment to good government I deserve and believe my representatives owe me. I also feel my representatives should respect and believe in me.

I wished you well. Your turn to wish us well before you leave America forever.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #28)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:48 PM

31. Since the US Government is NOT allowing my wife into the country, you are asking me to abandon her

That isn't going to happen. If the US Government changes its mind and lets her in, my campaign is back on.

But family ALWAYS comes first.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #31)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:09 PM

49. "family ALWAYS comes first."

As it should be!!

Wishing you the best!

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #28)


Response to Hortensis (Reply #28)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:09 PM

48. AZ's loyalty belongs to his wife, not his constituents.

Why should he continue his campaign and remain apart from his wife? Seriously, what an odd attitude.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #28)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:12 PM

51. Omg, why??



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Response to Hortensis (Reply #28)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 11:34 PM

81. I find this post remarkably ill-considered.

I could add other adjectives but will refrain.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #28)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 11:46 PM

86. Damn

I wished you well. Your turn to wish us well before you leave America forever.


A bit callous, no?

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Response to JonAndKatePlusABird (Reply #86)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 03:10 PM

146. As Phil Ochs said:

But when it comes to times like Korea, there's no one more red white and blue

So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal.

Applies with that nasty comment.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #28)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 03:15 AM

101. Am I reading this right?

You think he's doing the WRONG thing by not abandoning his wife for a political campaign? By NOT choosing his political career over his marriage?

I would side-eye the hell out of any politician who would do that.

Our representatives owe us honesty, hard work for the issues we care about, and transparency. They do NOT owe us personal sacrifice on that level.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #28)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 05:15 PM

153. Bullshit.

Terrible contribution to this thread.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #18)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:58 PM

42. Just wow. So sorry you were attacked like that.

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Response to Celerity (Reply #42)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:00 PM

43. On DU, no less, where we work to reform these horrid laws. I didn't abandon anyone

I am doing what is a responsible husband should do.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #43)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:20 PM

56. Xenophobia is alive and well in most all countries, but it is especially odious

to see in the US, which is made up (other than the indigenous) entirely of immigrants or descendents of immigrants, all of whom came within only the past 466 years (St Augustine, FL, it's only been 414 years since Jamestown and the English), MAX.

The vast majority trace their initial ancestors there back for a far shorter time than that. The nation itself, in its current Constitutional form, is only 232 years old, and independent for only 245. So young compared to Europe and Asia.

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Response to Celerity (Reply #56)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:22 PM

58. And, according to my mother who is mohawk, most are here illegally to begin with. hehe

But I know what you are saying.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #58)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:31 PM

61. I wish you and your wife the best of luck and fortune 💖. Ignore the haters.

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Response to Celerity (Reply #56)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 11:55 PM

89. Xenophobic hatred of and

legalized discrimination against Asians, especially Chinese immigrants, has, unfortunately, been very much a part of this country's DNA almost from its beginnings. Some of the worst anti-immigration laws of the 19th and 20th centuries were specifically aimed against keeping them out and keeping down the ones who were already here. TFG's Chinese hating diatribes and deliberate stirring up of anger and hate crimes against them exploited and built on that "tradition."

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #18)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 07:50 AM

103. ok, i dont know who posted what, exactly. but obviously

it was a dick thing to say. i'm so sorry, and i am so sorry for your plight.
not everyone here is who they pretend to be.

is there any way to remarry? why arent they recognizing your marriage?

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:23 PM

16. I apologize for how you and your wife have been treated.

Thank you for sharing your situation with DU, it is a learning moment.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:27 PM

19. That sucks. Where will you move to?

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Response to panader0 (Reply #19)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:28 PM

20. I own a home in Wuxi and I have retirement property in Krabi in Thailand

I go where my wife is. She is the most important person in my life.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #20)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:37 PM

23. I've never been to China, but I did stand next to the fence once between Hong Kong

and the Chinese border. I visited Hong Kong about '66. Later Thailand the next year. My dad was
stationed in Oahu and my mom was a travel fan.
Your priorities are correct---so sad about the treatment of your wife.
We Arizonans will miss you. All the best.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #23)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:39 PM

24. I'm sorry. I was just getting some steam here in Pima County for LD4

But my family is more important and I need to be where my wife is. We've already been separated for 14 months.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:31 PM

21. just curious, why was her application rejected?

Nobody has an absolute right to a green card, but certainly there are abuses in the qualification process.

What reasons did they give (if any)?

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Response to getagrip_already (Reply #21)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:34 PM

22. They rejected the marriage certificate from the Chinese Government as "incomplete" and "suspicious"

And as I have been told by two immigration attorneys, the immigration people have a huge anti-Chinese attitude, look them over harder than anyone else, and will deny for any and all reasons.

Nobody has an absolute right to a green card. You would think the US Government wouldn't be in the business of separating Americans from their families.

Your lack of empathy is duly noted.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #22)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:43 PM

25. Forgive me if this is a dumb question:

Why not get married here?

I know people that married friends just to get a green card for them. I’m sure it didn’t hurt they were Irish.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #25)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:47 PM

30. Because I was living there working at the Rape of Nanking museum.

Because except for my uncle, parents, and brother, I have no family, but hers is all there.

We registered it with the US Consulate in Shanghai three days after before we took our honeymoon in Bali.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #30)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:48 PM

32. I mean why not get remarried here? Wouldn't that satisfy the "suspicion" nonsense?

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #32)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:52 PM

35. Because there's no K3 spouse visa anymore and being married, she is ineligible for a K1 fiancee visa

We tried bringing her here on her B2 tourist visa and do an adjustment of status (which costs $1750 dollars), but the CBP in SEATAC refused her entry because she couldn't prove she was married (even though she had our marriage cert, a certified translation, and the paperwork from the consulate in Shanghai). Then they kept calling her anti-Chinese slurs, threatened to send the US Marshals to arrest me because I "can't prove you're her husband," then booted her out.

IR1 was the only avenue we had, and the NVC just killed that.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #35)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:55 PM

39. Oh jeeze. I'm sorry.

I assumed she was already here.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #39)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:58 PM

41. We did it through Consular Processing because when she came here to do it through adjustment of

status, the CBP in SEATAC refused to let her in and gave no reason. Legally, they don't have to a reason and they can deny anyone entry, even American citizens, with no appeal, due process, or any actual oversight. The law gives them almost 100% authority to do anything they want.

They did the same thing to my school district's superintendent and his wife. The law is written that encourages xenophobic abuse.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #35)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 09:41 AM

108. This should not be...

I’m am truly sorry your family is suffering this. I hope things improve.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #35)

Thu Sep 16, 2021, 02:44 PM

176. Apart from the stuff you know about legal immigration is a nightmare

Gauntlet of paperwork, filing, waiting, etc.

My wife and I had a tribal marriage in her home country. And even though we have a US citizen child together, it took nearly well over one year to complete the process.

Unlike the OP, we stripped a layer of bureaucracy and just filed a fiance visa and were 'officially' married in the US.


I am sorry the OP has had to go though this and the problems that come up along the way.

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Response to JCMach1 (Reply #176)

Thu Sep 16, 2021, 03:07 PM

179. The sad thing is no American should have to go through all of this just to bring their

family here. It should be as automatic as possible.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #179)

Thu Sep 16, 2021, 08:19 PM

180. 100% agree... It's also extremely costly which is a burden

When you are trying to relocate back home...

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #32)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:33 PM

62. As a general rule, if you have ever been married (anywhere)

you have to document the marriage terminated before you can be married again.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #62)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:59 PM

68. Even to the same person? In a different country?

It doesn’t matter because she is not here anyway…

I guess I’m just so used to Irish bartenders I know overstaying their visas and getting married. I knew one guy who married his employee (manager of his bar) to get her citizenship (he’s gay).

I know there is a huge double standard. And it helps to be in the country.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #68)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 11:02 PM

71. They refused to allow her into the country on Feb 27th.

We tried to do the AOS route, but they wouldn't allow her in.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #71)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 11:06 PM

74. As I noted above.

I’m so sorry. It sucks.

Especially since I know so many people from European countries and Australia that just waltzed in and overstayed.

Seems like playing it above board doesn’t pay.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #68)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 12:20 AM

94. Yup.

Marriage is marriage. Once you are married (same gender marriage quirks aside, and plural marriage quirks aside) it is recognized everywhere.

Some of the same-gender marriage quirks were really mind bending.

We ran off to Canada to elope to beat the constitutional marriage ban in Ohio (we wanted to be able to establish we were married before it became unconstitutional for purposes of an adoption petition).

First - I had to prove I was actually divorced - since I had been married before (in the US). In Ontario that requires a significant amount of time for them to verify the validity of your divorce decree. In British Columbia a certified copy was enoug. We went to British Columbia.

But before we got married, we had to reconcile ourselves to never ever getting a divorce - unless we were willing to move to do it. Since (at the time) Ohio didn't recognize our marriage, it couldn't grant a divorce. And there is no such thing as common law divorce. Even if you are married at common law - you have to be divorced in court. So one of us would have had to move to a state that recognized our marriage and establish residency in order to file for divorce. So gay marriage, before the US woke up and recognized it, was kind of a super-glue marriage.

And the final quirk is that - post Obergefell - I may be in a legal pickle. Obergefell granted recognition to all marriages valid at the time/place of their inception - from the date of their inception. My common law marriage (recognized in Ohio until 1990) dates to September 11, 1981. The requirements are (1) believe ourselves to be married, (2) hold ourselves out to be married, (3) living as spouses and (4) eligible to be married. We satisfied the first 3 as of 9/11/81. Obergefell made the 4th retroactive.

So - that may make my Canadian marriage invalid . . . because we were not single individuals at the time we eloped in Canada (because we were already married to each other - even though recognition of that marriage only came into being retroactively in 2015).

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #94)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 01:06 AM

96. That's kinda my point. A marriage in another country isn't going to bite you in the ass...

… as long as no one (your partner) is alleging polygamy.


My boyfriend and I waited until it was completely legal. For now… who knows what the loons on the Supreme Court will get up to.

I have two friends who were civil unioned in Vermont, civil unioned in Illinois, flew to California and married during that short time it was legal there, and then finally married in Illinois after the Supreme Court decision.

I tease them and say they were married more times than a Republican congressman.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #96)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 02:49 AM

100. Wrong.

To be married you have to be single at the time. So if you have ever been married, to anyone, you have to provide certified copies (at a minimum) of the court termination of the prior marriage as part of the licensing process.

Civil unions are not marriages.

Your friends' legal marriage is in California, as of Obergefell (which said denial of such marriages was unconstitutional and always had been, so pre-existing marriages which were legal at their inception were recognized as of the date of inception). If your friends answered the question as to marital status accurately (under the law at the time) Illinois should not have permitted them to marry since they were already married. My guess is that they inaccurately stated that they were not married to each other. (Not suggesting anything nefarious on their part - merely that they did not understand the law when they answered teh question.)

From the Cook County, Illinois website:

Eligibility
Under Illinois law, only eligible persons can marry. Both partners must:

be 18 years of age or older
not be blood relatives
not already be legally married to someone else or each other


In our case - at the time we were married in Canada, our marriage was not legally recognized in Ohio - since it was before Obergefell. At the time we were married in Canada, the legal answer to the question was that we were single, since we did not satisfy the 4th element for a common law marriage. Obergefell retroactively changed the answer to the 4th element and created a common law marriage that predated the Canadian marriage. Nothing we could have done to avoid the trap (other than hope that someday there would be an Obergefell).

I know your friends are not alone. I am an attorney, and this is an area of law where I have some expertise. I counseled quite a few friends contemplating such a path against attempting to create more than one marriage. It will be a nightmare for courts to sort out - especially when folks like your friends who were legally married in CA (or other early marriage states) split without formally divorcing, then married someone else elsewhere. I won't be teaching family law at the time these cases eventually make their way through the courts, but I expect to see a family law bar exam question along the lines of your friends (and I will be preparing folks to take the bar exam until I retire).

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #100)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 01:41 PM

136. I had a friend who eloped the week before his church marriage and didn't tell anyone

It caused him a lot of headaches when the pastor filed the new certificate not knowing they were already married.

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Response to AZSkiffyGeek (Reply #136)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 01:55 PM

138. Precisely.

Nothing wrong with having a church ceremony post-marriage, but that makes the church marriage purely ceremonial. The legal marriage started the week before.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #32)

Thu Sep 16, 2021, 02:43 PM

175. Just FYI

My wife and I got married in the USA, and when we asked the US Embassy in Bonn (how's that for dating things?) if we needed anything from Germany, they said we needed an "Ehefähigkeitszeugnis." Don't ask me what it is called in Chinese. This is basically an official (German, in our case) government document certifying that the potential foreign spouse is indeed still single.

Bureaucracy being what it was and is, that is the one document that it took us the longest to get from the Germans, and the one document the Americans never once asked to see when we were in Washington getting married! It was like Arlo Guthrie's 40 eight by ten color glossy photographs that the blind judge was never going to look at.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #30)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 12:08 AM

93. Seeeeeesh you'd think being it registered with the US consulate would be enough

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Response to electric_blue68 (Reply #93)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 04:52 PM

150. This! eom

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #22)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:49 PM

33. That's shitty of them

International Marriage Certificate from the locality (which you did) and the translation page notarized should be enough. Literally - that's what I had to present to the Italian embassy to get my citizenship.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #33)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:53 PM

36. You're white from a democracy. She's Chinese from evvvvvvil Commie land.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #36)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 09:26 AM

107. Ahh yes

And I'm black! But he's a white male business owner from Europe.

In Italy - being an educated black American is an advantage . . . as traditionally we 'hyper' assimilate and are considered to share 'family values' with Italy. If I had been say - from Sudan, or Egypt, or ANY Eastern European Country - not so easy.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #22)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:54 PM

37. Why is there no alternative to get a stay on your situation while

you get certification from the appropriate Chinese authorities or whatever other evidence you can provide to refute their wrong conclusions?

Those attorneys should be able to get specific reasons for denial and help you gather the evidence to refute them.

I do not understand this harsh process. I find it hard to believe your rights as her husband are exhausted.

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Response to Jarqui (Reply #37)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:56 PM

40. We already have it. We submitted it. Official Chinese Marriage, Certified translation, and the

paperwork from the American consulate in Shanghai. They rejected all of it.

There is no appeal. I can start over from the beginning and spend all the money again. But I can't afford that. I've already spent more than $5000 to get her here.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #40)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:44 PM

64. What is the basis of their rejection?

They don't have to say?

Is this below accurate (I just quickly looked up[ trying to get my head around it)
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/fiance-marriage-visa-book/chapter15-11.html
If you are applying for adjustment of status (a green card) in the U.S. and receive a USCIS notice telling you that your application has been denied, read the notice carefully. One of the things USCIS will tell you is whether you can appeal the denial, and if so, how.

In most situations, there is no appeal after a denial. If the law allows you to appeal, you can ask USCIS's Administrative Appeals Office (AAO) to look at your case and see whether the USCIS officer wrongly denied your green card. There will be a fee and a deadline for filing the appeal—don't miss it.

If you're not allowed to appeal, you can do the next best thing: file a motion to have your case reopened or reconsidered. These motions are different than an appeal because you're basically asking the same person who denied your application to change his or her mind—your case is not transferred to the AAO. A motion to reconsider is what you file when you think the officer denied you for a wrong reason. You file a motion to reopen when the situation has changed or new facts have come to light since the officer made the decision denying your green card.

In the rare case, you might need to file a separate suit in federal court challenging the denial. You would need the assistance of an attorney to determine whether that's even possible.

If you have no other legal right to be in the U.S. when the application is denied (such as a pending political asylum application or a temporary work visa), you are likely to be placed into removal proceedings in immigration court. There, you will have the opportunity to renew your green card application before an immigration judge.


Is common law marriage another angle you could try?
https://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/can-you-get-green-card-common-law-marriage.html

It is gut wrenching to read your account. I'm so sorry.

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Response to Jarqui (Reply #64)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:59 PM

69. We aren't doing adjustment of status. We're doing consolar processing

We're passed the USCIS. We're at the NVC.

You can only do AOS when the immigrant is here. She wasn't allowed to enter on February 27th because CBP invented reasons to reject her entry.

So this doesn't apply to us.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #69)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 11:22 PM

78. Ugh. I'm so sorry. ...nt

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #22)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 08:42 AM

106. If they rejected the marriage certificate then

they should allow her as a fiancé.

I'm so sorry that you are caught up in a broken system and that no one seems to be willing to help you.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #22)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 10:08 PM

165. The certificate or the marriage?

Hold you remarry and get the certificate they want? From the government entity they accept. If they think the marriage itself is fake, that’s odd when you lived there. Did she have a tough time answering questions?

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Response to treestar (Reply #165)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 10:48 PM

166. So, to remarry, I need to divorce my wife. She is in China now. I'm here

That isn't happening.

She is stuck at the NVC. She hasn't seen a consular officer yet.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #166)

Thu Sep 16, 2021, 10:18 AM

169. Upload it again with an explanation.

of why it's the correct certificate. The NVC alone can't reject a document.

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Response to treestar (Reply #169)

Thu Sep 16, 2021, 12:13 PM

170. They did. They said my marriage cert was "incomplete" and suspicious"

We did, but as an immigration attorney has told us, once they reject, the chance of them accepting after rejecting is slim and that there is a well instituted anti-Chinese bias in all immigration levels.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #170)

Thu Sep 16, 2021, 02:33 PM

172. Did you get the attestation from China added?

NVC is anal about attestation.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #170)

Thu Sep 16, 2021, 11:40 PM

182. They could go to court

it's a pain, but they are supposed to follow the law, so if they are rejecting a proper certificate, that is described in the "document finder" as a marriage certificate from China, a mandamus suit could ask the court to order them to recognize it. A bureaucrat's whim is not supposed to overrule the rule of law.

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Response to treestar (Reply #182)

Thu Sep 16, 2021, 11:48 PM

184. The law is written that the NVC, USCIS, the Consulate, and finally the CBP at the border

have complete and total control with no chance at appeal.

The INA of 1952 was written to keep people out, not bring them in by making the entire process as soul destroying, cumbersowe, costly, and long as possible. Remember, it was written by two of the biggest xenophobic bigots in Congress.

The law is written that they can say deny for any reason or no reason. You can't take them to court because the law states no appeals.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #184)

Sat Sep 18, 2021, 06:01 PM

186. You can appeal denial of a relative petition to the BIA

Board of Immigration Appeals

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:43 PM

26. I am so sorry.

No words.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:44 PM

27. I'm sorry

I don’t think most Americans hate Asian people. I think 30% do and it creates difficulties that are sometimes insurmountable. It has become clear in the past few years that 30% of my countrypeople are complete asswipes. Trumpist, maskholes and anti-Vacciners. 30%. Meh. I’m sorry for your pain.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:46 PM

29. I'm so sorry this has happened

For those of us married to immigrants the 45 years sucked. You have to be in that situation - to truly understand it.

I don't understand why they cannot accept an international marriage license. I mean - we both know "why" - but it is really shitty.

My husband has been a green card holder since 1973. Lived in the Bronx from 4-12 - then the family went back to Italy. He came back September 9, 2001. We were married in 2012. He crossed his fingers in October last year (hoping Biden would win), applied for citizenship and has his exam/interview October this year.

What's different between the two? We both (you and me) know what happened here. You are right.

The universe's blessings to you both. I would go be with my spouse too. There's no way I would across the pond from my Giovanni.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #29)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 11:46 PM

84. They CAN accept an international marriage certificate IF they want to.

From what AZLD4 said, they didn't accept it because they're biased against Chinese who want to come here. THEY COULD have accepted it. But they don't HAVE to, and they didn't WANT to, so they didn't.

Our immigration setup is even more fucked up than I ever realized.

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Response to ShazzieB (Reply #84)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 10:09 AM

112. I wonder what would happen if we were to move back to the States?

My wife doesn't want to, so it's not an issue for now. But she is a German citizen who has never resided in the USA. She has been detained numerous times at US airports when entering the country, but it was always by idiot CBP guys wanting to show off, and she was always released by a supervisor an hour later, who inevitably rolled his eyes at his subordinate and apologize to my wife. I guess it helps that she is a tall blonde German. Ever since the Covid-19 restrictions, we never even go to the airport without our marriage certificate, and since we got married in Virginia, they can't very well say there's a problem with the translation.

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Response to DFW (Reply #112)

Thu Sep 16, 2021, 11:37 PM

181. My wife is a short, petite, shy Chinese woman with black hair and honest to a fault

When she was detained, they asked so many leading question (I have the affidavit) that she would have confessed to assassinating Kennedy because they used her naivety and ignorance against her.

As soon as I saw what the did, I told her she would never enter this country alone EVER again. Let them pull their leading, loaded questions crap on her. BTW, even though she is near-fluent in English, they didn't provide her an interpreter when she didn't understand the questions asked, or the nature of the questions asked.

Then they called her nasty anti-Chinese things when they locked her in the airport with just a ratty mattress in the room (telling her that's all she deserved), took her phone from her so I didn't know where she was for three days, gave her two fifteen minute bathroom uses a day, and treated her worse than we treat inmates in prison.

Why? Because CBP has no oversight and unlimited power. Visas are just "invitations." Even with Immigrant Visas, they can deny you entry for any and all reasons, or none (like they do with your wife, exercising their power).

They've thrown me into secondary as an American citizen in Nogales at least a half dozen times because I refuse to answer personal questions like "where do you life," "what were you doing in Mexico," "How long were you there," and "when was the last time I went," among others. In my eyes, they have can ask two questions: "What's my citizenship" (that the passport proves immediately), and "are you bringing anything back." Everything else I respond with silence or "none of your business."

I'm even worse at the Border Patrol checkpoints on I-19, or just off the Tohono o'Odham Nation entering Tucson on Ajo Way. I don't even acknowledge their existence. They've always pulled me into secondary, but then I start screaming "not answering your questions is not a reason to pull me into secondary under the Supreme Court case Martinez-Fuerte. Would you like me to read it to you?" They've actually told me they don't care what the Supreme Court says. The Border Patrol is just as unaccountable and out of control as CBP and ICE (and all law enforcement for that matter).

At a House Party fundraiser, I was asked what I would do, if elected, about the Border Patrol and their abuses (because they abuse the Tohonos here too. . .profiling, destroying their private property, disrespecting their children, ignoring speed limits and traffic laws, etc). I simply said "I am running for the State House. Immigration unfortunately is a Federal Issue under Article One of the Constitution. But I believe the issues with CBP, ICE, and BP would and could be solved if we just implemented a 50 year hiring freeze." It gets very positive reactions.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 09:52 PM

34. I'm sorry

seriously our immigration policies are racist and have not adapted to the modern world. They seem stuck deep in the last century.

I'm sorry.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:03 PM

44. That breaks my heart...

at so many levels.
I wish you and yours all the best that this old world can offer.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:04 PM

45. Sorry it happened this way for your family.

That is a shame.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:06 PM

46. I'm very sorry this happened.


All the best to you and your wife, and may you enjoy whatever good things life has to offer.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:08 PM

47. How were you married? Religious or secular?

How were you married? Religious or secular?

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Response to keithbvadu2 (Reply #47)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:10 PM

50. China only has secular. You go to the provincial capital (Nanjing)

fill out the paperwork, pay fees, take official pictures, and get the certification within an hour.

She gives her Chinese ID, I give my passport.

She has no religion and Judaism is not one of the six recognized religions in China.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #50)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:45 PM

65. If it was religious, the right wing should be eager to support it.

If it was religious, the right wing should be eager to support it.

Wonder if a later remarriage in this country might have made a difference?

Marriages have been conducted over the radio/telephone.

Maybe even by internet by now.

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Response to keithbvadu2 (Reply #65)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 11:00 PM

70. She's still a foeigner. Being married gives you nothing in immigration

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #70)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 11:22 PM

77. OK. Your intro implied that marriage legitimacy was the primary factor.

OK. Your intro implied that marriage legitimacy was the primary factor.

"The NVC rejected my marriage certification."

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Response to keithbvadu2 (Reply #77)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 11:43 PM

83. Our marriage certification is Chinese from the Jiangsu provincial capital

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Response to Demovictory9 (Reply #52)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:18 PM

53. Remember, this is the country that banned ALL Chinese immigration to the US from 1881

until 1943. It was known as the Chinese Exclusion Act. I do not believe, from my memory, any other nationality was outright denied entry into the US due to that under law.

Our immigration system enables bigotry, selectivity, and xenophobia.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:19 PM

54. How awful. What if you got married again in a neutral country like Canada or another Asian country.

Might it be easier to get the marriage recognized then?

I applaud you though for being willing to move to stay with your wife - you obviously really love her and she is fortunate to have you as her husband.

One last thought -- you might try writing directly to President Biden and see if there is any way he can intervene. Obama used to have an intern choose a few letters each week to have the President read - maybe Biden does the same? Especially you are a Dem who was running for office, perhaps there is something the President could do - and he should at least know that US officials were calling your wife racial slurs and fire them.

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Response to Liberty Belle (Reply #54)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:21 PM

57. She's still a Chinese citizen and Trump era rules attacked them.

It has nothing to do with the marriage. It's her nationality, as I have been told there is an ingrained Anti-Chinese attitude in our immigration enforcers because of Cold War attitudes. Evil commies and things like that. "Speak Chinese, spread disease."

但是,我可以中文。 所以,我也是 Typhoid Mary.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:20 PM

55. I'm so sorry. This isn't right.

I don’t blame you for leaving the U.S. to be with your wife.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:27 PM

59. My wife and I went through the immigration process between 2012-2014

My wife is also from China and we started the process after getting married in 2012 and it took almost exactly two years from start to finish for her to get the visa. We never got outright denied, but we had to submit extra paperwork on top of what was required at multiple stages and it was impossible to get any sort of status update.

We got married in Hong Kong as opposed to mainland China and I am sure that helped a lot, but I'm not sure if that's something that would be an option for you or not. It seems really difficult to even get a visa to go to China at the moment due to COVID.

Hopefully everything works out for you two.

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Response to tarheelsunc (Reply #59)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:38 PM

63. I have a valid Chinese visa through my spouse.

It's good until August 2022. All I need to do to renew it is pay a fee, fill out a form, take two photographs, have my wife answer a few questions, and submit my passport.

Easy, streamlined process.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #63)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 09:44 AM

109. Will the Chinese government allow you stay in China on some sort of permanent visa?

Or will you have to live in Thailand?

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Response to Irish_Dem (Reply #109)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 10:10 AM

113. I can go back to China.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #113)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 10:13 AM

115. So China is more welcoming than your home country.

Unbelievable what is happening to you.

I wish you and your wife the best.

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Response to Irish_Dem (Reply #115)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 12:07 PM

126. I was never denied entry. I was never kicked out. My documents were never rejected

Here in "the land of the free," she was denied entry. She was kicked out Her documents were rejected.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #126)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 12:10 PM

128. I meant more welcoming to your family unit.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:28 PM

60. Self deleting...because reading the whole thread answered some of my questions.

Good luck.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:50 PM

66. So sorry to hear that! The Chinese are great people. I've worked with them for years

in research.

So sick they way they've been demonized especially lately.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 10:59 PM

67. I'm terribly sorry you and your wife have suffered this indignity and stress.

You are absolutely doing the right thing, and I would do the same without hesitation. I wish you all the best for a bright future with your wife in happier times to come.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 11:02 PM

72. I sort or expect that of Sinema. Disappointed in Kelly.

He can stop sending me emails for money.

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Response to Jakes Progress (Reply #72)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 10:13 AM

114. I'd be interested if he knows the details about this personally

I know him and Gabby, and this is not at all what he's like.

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Response to DFW (Reply #114)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 12:10 PM

129. Getting through the gatekeepers are impossible

His "constituent services" person does nothing. If you ask to speak to the Senator, you get "we'll pass the message along."

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #129)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 12:31 PM

132. I have his number and his personal email. That is different, obviously.

I rarely use them, as you don’t abuse that kind of thing. And: it may not get you any farther than you are now, but if you want me to ask, you wouldn’t be any worse off, either.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #129)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 06:28 PM

158. Congressional Staffers

Talking to staff is standard operating procedure. There really are just too many constituents in most states for the member to take an active roll in the case. However, having said that cases do get bumped up the ladder if it gets into the press, the constituent is a big donor, a friend of the member or a public figure. Since the author of this piece seems to be running for a Congressional seat I'm surprised his campaign manager or finance committee chair hasn't reached out to the Senator's office and got the ball rolling. If it were me I'd take a meeting with the Senator's State Director and try to break the logjam. All this advice is based on my 6 years of being the state Director for a Senator.

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Response to OrangeJoe (Reply #158)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 06:31 PM

159. I'm running for State Rep, not Congress

My Campaign Manager has reached out, only to get platitudes and close shoulders. My finance manager has as well.

But since I am a teacher by trade, it is very difficult to have people contact me, which is why my CM and FM are.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #159)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 06:43 PM

161. My error

Well that doesn't give you as much horsepower as a Congressional candidate (not that it should matter I'm just telling you how things operate). I'd still recommend a meeting with the State Director, especially if you can bring in a state rep or 2. Good luck. While I don't know the whole story it certainly looks like you are getting hosed by INS and the runaround from your representatives.

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Response to OrangeJoe (Reply #161)

Fri Sep 17, 2021, 10:50 AM

185. AZLD4 is now in touch with Kelly's office directly.

I thought I recognized the name of Mark’s man on the case and finally asked. Sure enough, it was a guy I had talked to after Gabby was shot. He even served a term in Gabby’s congressional seat. Same guy. He’ll oversee this project, and keep both Mark and me in the loop. There are no guarantees, but this is no longer going to get buried in some pile of papers on some staffer’s desk, or in some bureaucrat’s file boxes.

If Vitamin “C” is the last resort, I think this is a legitimate case in which to make use of it.

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Response to Jakes Progress (Reply #72)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 11:45 AM

124. Seriously

I expect better of him. Sinema, not so much. She's a Republican in a Dem wig.

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Response to Jakes Progress (Reply #72)

Thu Sep 16, 2021, 02:50 PM

177. Follow up to this

I checked with Mark Kelly. He had no idea about any of this. His staff were responsible for keeping it from him. He is now aware of the situation, and it is no longer being ignored. You can rescind your disappointment for now. Mark is perfectly willing to look into this. That's all I can say for now, as it is now in his/their hands.

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Response to DFW (Reply #177)

Thu Sep 16, 2021, 11:45 PM

183. DFW is right. I can verify all he just said.

With that, I had a Kelly case worker blow me off in March when CBP as SEATAC abused her when she tried to enter the country to do an AOS. My expectations are really low right now, even after I was contacted by his S. Arizona leader.

After Raul has hanged up on me, Sinema said nothing but platitudes, and Kelly blowing me off, I expect little. I hope, with all my heart, I am completely wrong and Kelly does this for me. I will restart my campaign for AZ House, and I will work tirelessly for Mark Kelly with every fibre of my being.

Please help me, Mr. Kelly. 15 month separation is too long, as your subordinate told me on the phone.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 11:05 PM

73. I am so sorry that this sad excuse for a country hurt your wife and your family.

This country is the true original shithole.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 11:09 PM

75. Congressman? Senator? News reporter?

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Response to marble falls (Reply #75)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 11:12 PM

76. I've answered the Congresscritter question before. See response #7

Tucson media is notoriously lazy and right wing. I've gone to them repeatedly and they never replied to me. The Arizona Daily Star didn't even publish my LOTE online when I wrote it.

Done these things already once.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 11:23 PM

79. I'm so very sorry for your pain. I have nothing to add but this: we didn't do this & we are friends--

Just understand that. If you want to continue with DU, there’s nothing stopping you — we have many expats who post at DU, & you’ll be in good company.

All the best to you and your wife in the difficult days ahead. You will find your home.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 11:33 PM

80. So sorry - This is inexcusable!

Every Chinese person I have ever interacted with in my job and life has been kind, personable, and generous to a fault.

I do not understand this but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. My heart aches that people can and continue to be so cruel.

I wish you and your wife the best!

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 11:42 PM

82. I'm so sorry!

The least I'd expect from our government would be allowing those validly married to an American citizen to be able to get a green card. That should be part of immigration law, except for very unusual circumstances.

Best to you and your wife and blessings over you through very difficult times.

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Response to summer_in_TX (Reply #82)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 11:46 PM

85. Our 7th anniversary was two days ago.

They have two types of these visa.

CR1 which is given if the marriage is less than two years and gets more attention because of possible "green card spouse."

Ours is an IR1. If we were "green card spouses," she would have demanded to do this immediately. We only started to do this after I had to come back last year (in our 6th year of marriage) because of COVID19 restrictions in China and my mother's stroke.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #85)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 11:25 PM

168. That's so unfair.

I am sorry.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 11:48 PM

87. The Trump admin did not seem to practice bias against the Chinese when Jared Kushner's family was se

The Trump admin did not seem to practice bias against the Chinese when Jared Kushner's family was selling visas for family investments.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 11:53 PM

88. My great grandparents had no marriage certificates

They faked their deaths to get married in Mexico.

This was in 1925

They were Armenian refugees. My great grandfather came in 1910 by himself. Meanwhile, the US set quotas. My great grandmother tried to come in 1923, but was deported from Ellis Island. They had no marriage documentation because all records were destroyed. They cooked up a scheme to tell Mexican authorities that they were both widowed. It worked for them, but that was almost 100 years ago. In real life, they had been married since 1902.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Tue Sep 14, 2021, 11:57 PM

90. I feel your pain..

Same thing happened to me..... And because of it I am now single. They deserved to be in the ninth level of hell.

Hobo

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 12:02 AM

91. So sad to hear of this

They've made such a mess of it all.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 12:03 AM

92. I am so sorry!

I lived four years in Shanghai and met nothing but wonderful people and made friendships. It was a wonderful experience.

I wish you and your wife the very, very best and I am so sorry. It is clearly our country’s loss not to have your wife here.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 12:26 AM

95. So sorry. What a terrible thing to be going through...

I've had Chinese friends and acquaintances for decides (not right now) that started in my teens.

I live in NYC so we have actually kind of have 3 Chinatowns now. The original very old one in lower Manhattan, one deep in Brooklyn, and the "newest" one in Flushing, Queens tgat people have been hearing about mostly Chinese and some other Asians.

This is a very unreasonable, and sad situation.

I wish you and your wife safety, health and to flourish where you end up!

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 01:34 AM

97. I am sorry this happened.....

I am so sorry this happened to you.

You are right about the CCP and not saying "China." I have disabilities. I found work in teaching ESL to Chinese students. Now, the CCP has changed regulations, and I will not be able to make a living doing that any more. I am sad, but I have never blamed "China." I understand who is behind the regulations.

Through my job, I've had the opportunity to meet many fine people. We connected on WeChat. I am hoping these will be lifelong friendships. I am sad at what was done to you. I wish you and yours the very best. Ignore the haters. May you have much luck and happiness in your future.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 01:55 AM

98. I'm so sorry to hear this OP. It is a reminder there is ugly truths about our country that needs to

Be addressed immediately.

Even here on DU, there was a shocking display of racism against Chinese Americans. And she is an American under the law. As we seen with racism in this country, the law isn’t always equally applied and we are seeing this injustice today.

I hope with time Biden can rid this racism within the government and your wife may be able to reapply in the future. I think it’s very important we keep our elected leaders accountable to do what’s right and not just give them a pass because they are Dems and not TFG.

For a parallel, I’m still deeply disappointed with the abandonment of the Afghan interpreters and SIV holders who served along our troops for years, risking their lives and the lives of their families. We abandoned the majority of them to the Taliban even though promises were made. I’m hoping the veteran community that has served with the interprets can be their voice in correcting this wrong. Not sure what can be done at this point, but this history must not be forgotten.

Nothing will change unless we demand better and remember these miscarriages of our values.

I know you mentioned that your tried writing to Congress but received little help. Are there any media organizations that would pick this up as an example of anti-Asian discrimination. Maybe also write a letter to President Biden telling your story?

I’m hoping that things work out in the long run. You’re a good man and faithful to your wife

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 02:25 AM

99. We who are third and fourth generation Americans forget how easy it was

For our grandparents or great-grandparents. I have had siblings and cousins say about immigrants, Yeah, but grandma or greatgrandad came the "right way." What they should have said was they were white when we welcomed their labor. Often the right way was getting off a boat and being healthy. Or after WWII they married a GI. Now they self righteously want to shut the door. If we still believe we are a welcoming country, we should especially live that belief when it comes to people married to citizens..

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Response to halfulglas (Reply #99)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 11:49 AM

125. My father was European, had a

PhD in economics, worked closely with Americans during the war, and still had to be in a certain category for preference to emigrate. He came as an agricultural worker and head to take an exam. Many other family members, white European, couldn’t come in and ended up in South America. Of course the numbers wanting to come at the and of the war was huge, but in my extended family it was hardly a slam-dunk.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 06:34 AM

102. It's surprising this is an issue after 6 years of marriage. Surely that has to count for something ?

Where do you go from here ? It's bizarre that the wife of an American can be excluded from the US like this.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #102)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 10:19 AM

117. I applied for German residency after 29 years of marriage and proof of financial stability

The Germans STILL put me through the wringer, even though granting me residence entitled them to soak me for over half my income in taxes the second the permit was valid.. The only thing they let up on was the language requirement, since they didn't even know that I wasn't German until I showed them my passport.

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Response to DFW (Reply #117)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 11:31 AM

123. Wow, that's quite ridiculous.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #123)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 12:20 PM

130. Here, they expect Syrians, Albanians, Afghans and Russians

They are trained to deal with people who speak no German and arrive asking for everything. I arrived speaking fluent German and asking for nothing. Well, at least I got what I asked for. No health insurance, no pension, though I was asked to pay a yearly six figure income tax bill, a good part of which I get hit for double, due to holes in the Germany-USA double taxation treaty.

The last thing they expected was someone from the USA who just wanted to spend more time with his German wife, with a steady job, speaking fluent German, and not with his hand out. I didn’t fit any of their pre-conceived models of what to expect, and it threw them for a loop. If there is one thing EU bureaucrats are NOT known for it’s flexibility in their thinking.

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Response to DFW (Reply #130)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 06:02 PM

157. Yes indeed, flexibility doesn't fit the agenda !

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 08:11 AM

104. Wow, reading your OP and then all of your responses in the thread is so messed up.

I'm so sorry. Sounds like the process is broken for something so important.

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Response to Ace Rothstein (Reply #104)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 08:13 AM

105. Most of the responses

in this thread are sympathetic to the OP. I know I certainly am.

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Response to Elessar Zappa (Reply #105)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 10:09 AM

111. I was saying his responses in combination with his OP.

Just all the cumulative info he provided.

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Response to Ace Rothstein (Reply #111)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 10:17 AM

116. Ah, ok.

This country’s immigration system is fucked up.

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Response to Ace Rothstein (Reply #104)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 10:26 AM

118. The process was never smooth

My brother's wife is from Japan, and it took them some serious overcoming of bureaucracy to permit her to live with him in the USA. Not only did they have to get married, but because of his top security clearance, she had to renounce her Japanese citizenship and become American. Their sons have dual citizenship with Japan, even though their mother no longer has a Japanese passport. The main obstacle is to be permitted to live where you want. My brother's wife would have been OK staying in Japan, but preferred to come to the USA because in Japan in 1981, a female bank teller had zero prospects of getting a better job in a Japanese bank. Within 10 years of coming to the USA, my sister-in-law was vice-director of the World Bank in Washington (for Asia, of course). But the initlal process of getting her in with a residence permit wasn't easy, even back then.

These days, it seems the whole process is like a car tire trying to navigate a street full of nails and thumb tacks.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 10:27 AM

119. I feel your pain.

My wife is not Chinese but is from Asia. We had some issues getting AOS (Adjustment of Status) after she arrived here on Green Card. They initially rejected our submission indicating we didnt provide enough information to verify our marriage was legit. I was shocked as I had sent them a large stack of information. I did all the paperwork myself with no immigration lawyer. Perhaps that was a mistake. Anyway I search online and most recommendations were to send them as much information as possible and overwhelm them with paper. So I sent them a massive resubmission with photos, travel docs, emails, letters, birthday cards, etc. I also contacted my congressman who is Steny Hoyer. He has a specific person on staff who handles immigration issues. I explained to her the situation and emailed them copies of some of the information I sent. Within a week after that we were approved. Not sure specifically what made it happen but I do believe Hoyer's staffer helped.

Good luck on however things turn out for you.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #119)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 06:34 PM

160. Every member has an immigration person

Every member, at least on the West Coast has a staffer who does immigration. They also have a veteran's person. What you have described is the way it worked in our office and the way it should work in other offices. Sounds to me like Kelly's staff is not up to snuff.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 10:46 AM

120. So very sorry.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 11:07 AM

121. Not sure if you get to read this, but hold on, this is a cycle where republicans screw immigrants

but then comes a Democratic president who reverses some of the ugly stuff republicans left behind and you and your wife will be able to get things through.

I am sure the new administration will make things right.

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Response to Escurumbele (Reply #121)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 12:43 PM

133. This occurred under the current administration.

And if you read the OP his Senators and Representative, all Democrats, are unsympathetic.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 11:18 AM

122. This was in reference to the McCarran-Walter act ??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1952

I remember McCarran from old Pogo strips where he was parodied as the Hon. Mole McCaroney, aka Molester Mole, one of the founders of the Audible Boy Bird Watchers Society and, later, the Jack Acid Society. I searched Wiki for the McCarran Act and found his name associated with three really horrible bills!



The Act was superseded in 1965:

The 1952 Act was amended by the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, to include a significant provision stating:

No person shall receive any preference or priority or be discriminated against in the issuance of an immigrant visa because of the person's race, sex, nationality, place of birth, or place of residence.


But apparently TFG did some serious meddling with Immigration (DUH) which has not yet been cleared up by the courts. Still reading up on that. (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_v._Hawaii)

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Response to eppur_se_muova (Reply #122)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 12:09 PM

127. In reference to the 1965, prove that doesn't happen

They can deny for any reason and no reason. You don't think personal bias enters into the equation.

Prove the bias. Racial profiling is illegal in this country, but law enforcement does it with impunity. Why? Because there is no oversight.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #127)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 01:02 PM

134. Under TFG, I'm sure it was cranked up to 11.

Ur-racist Steven Miller didn't want to admit even friendly Afghanis, and Steve Bannon engineered a Muslim immigration ban. They're not the type to shy away from traditional China-bashing for anything.

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Response to eppur_se_muova (Reply #134)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 05:09 PM

152. Kung Flu. . .China Virus

It's why my wife say she is taking a trump when she needed to defecate.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 12:29 PM

131. I am so sorry.

I do not hate your wife. I suspect she is a marvelous, loving person. I hope you find resolution. Immigration policies are not only fucked up, but self destructive

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 03:00 PM

144. I've never seen anyone here use "China" as a slur here.

Very sorry to hear that has happened.

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Response to Treefrog (Reply #144)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 08:39 PM

164. The racist post was deleted

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 03:19 PM

147. Can Senators help?

Since SeaTac is involved, we have Senator Patty Murray who is quite senior.

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Response to KT2000 (Reply #147)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 04:06 PM

149. I'm not a WA resident. See response #7

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #149)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 08:32 PM

163. As the old saying goes, it's time to give it the 'old college try.'

One final push.

Make videos explaining your situation and put them everywhere (Tik Tok, Twitter, YouTube, etc.). Contact all news entities to gauge if they might consider running a segment on your dilemma (Laurence O'Donnell comes to mind). Contact other states Reps. and Senators who might be more empathetic and sympathetic that may be able to influence your Reps. and Senators.

Don't throw in the towel just yet. Stir the shitstorm! Shame them for being indifferent and keeping a family separated.

You would think in this day and technological age that a simple official global marriage database could be set up by governments (or maybe the UN) to acknowledge your and everyone else's marriage. As soon as your marriage certificate is filed, you're in the database. Immigration checks, you're officially recognized as married, end of questioning.

Never say die! (you could register as a lobbyist and shovel truckloads of money at your reps and then they'll probably give you more attention)

I wish you and your wife well and that I had more to offer.

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Response to Mr. Evil (Reply #163)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 11:02 PM

167. +1

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 03:54 PM

148. I vote in LD2

And I’ve been following your campaign since you announced it. I’m so sorry for the mess you’re in. I too, would leave the country and never come back if they refused to admit my spouse. I guess we’re lucky since he became a citizen in ‘12.

All the best to you. You may miss America but apparently, they won’t miss you so, fuck ‘em.
Like my dying mother says, Go Live your life. Be happy and take care of each other. That’s all that matters! Go east young man.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 05:18 PM

154. I came to the US at 13, now I'm 35

on a student Visa and took my citizenship, I'm Chinese born in Malaysia. I, too experience the hatred and looks and general of people who think I should "go back home" when I'm more successful than they are. Amazing to still love this country yet depressing to be condemned for not looking like the mold of what someone thinks a melting pot should look like.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 07:53 PM

162. Damn. I'm really, really sorry for what happened.

There is no place for any racism in ICE, or on this site. And this thing with anti-Chinese slurs because Trump came out with that awful initial slur in attempt to shift the blame for the terrible cost of COVID 19 from his own ineptitude and incompetence to China is terrible. Oh, racism against any non-white people is as 'American as apple pie,' but it should not be. We cannot allow it to continue.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Thu Sep 16, 2021, 02:37 PM

174. Adding my voice to many others here.

I'm really sorry your wife has been treated so poorly, and that you need to leave.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Sat Sep 18, 2021, 07:21 PM

188. From my own experience

Anti-Chinese feeling in immigration are real. I won't elaborate on my own families dealings, but they weren't fun.

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Response to Johonny (Reply #188)

Sat Sep 18, 2021, 07:29 PM

189. That's what my school district's immigration attorney said.

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Response to AZLD4Candidate (Original post)

Sun Sep 19, 2021, 09:13 AM

190. I hope the story changes and your wife is allowed a green card

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