Israeli research: 3rd vaccine dose produces 10 times more

[SheltieLover]

Israeli research: 3rd vaccine dose produces 10 times more antibodies than 2nd
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-research-3rd-vaccine-dose-produces-10-times-more-antibodies-than-2nd/amp/

Amid talk of 4th dose, serological study at Sheba hospital stokes optimism that booster shot may offer longer-lasting protection than previously thought.

A serological study conducted at an Israeli hospital has found that antibody levels in the body after the administration of a third COVID-19 vaccine dose were ten times higher than those detected after the second dose.

The preliminary results, seen among vaccinated staff at Sheba Medical Center in Ramat Gan, outside Tel Aviv, stoked optimism as to the amount of time the booster shot retains its protection, the Kan public broadcaster reported Tuesday.

The study compared the antibody levels a week after the third COVID-19 vaccine dose was administered to its staff to their levels a week after the second dose was administered.

More at link. Israel will present booster findings to US health officials on 9/17, the same day they will vote on boosters for USA.

The question in my mind is WHY are US health officials so dead set against boosters?

[DenaliDemocrat]

1. Because risk of side effects goes up

It’s all risk analysis. Again, the goal has never been complete disease prevention but mitigation of severe effects. The vaccine still seems to extremely well in that regard

[lagomorph777]

3. The ultimate goal is to reduce disease spread. The more each individual smacks it down,

the less each individual can spread the disease.

[Tetrachloride]

4. Any evidence? "risk of side effects goes up"

[DenaliDemocrat]

20. No, but most assume the incidence of myocarditis

Will increase

[Blues Heron]

25. So no evidence then

cool story bro

[DenaliDemocrat]

53. Read a journal article

Before you post smack. My degree is in biochemistry. How about you?

[Blues Heron]

62. everybody's got a degree on the net

If someone had myocarditis I highly doubt they'll be getting a booster.

[DenaliDemocrat]

64. Business degree I assume

Tell you what, why don’t you explain to me the implications of the receptor binding domain and how it affects current strains circulating in laymen’s terms? I bet you can’t - but I can, because I’m actually a scientist who understands molecular biology and the tertiary structure of a protein

[Blues Heron]

65. Depending on the strain the virus grabs the binding site more or less strongly

that was one of the first things that caught researchers attention about the covid19 virus was how much more strongly it attached to the binding site on the cell compared to flu or cold viruses. Delta's even worse.

[SheltieLover]

33. Myocarditis lasts only a few days

Not a biggie, & is extremely rare.

Not like risking death or long haul.

[PortTack]

37. Ummm no ..myocarditis can permanently enlarge the heart, damage valves. It's no small thing!

[SheltieLover]

40. Can, yes. But has not been reported from vax

[womanofthehills]

80. Patient & provider fact sheets warn of myocarditis

On December 18, 2020, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration issued an emergency use authorization (EUA) for the second vaccine for the prevention of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2). On June 25, 2021, the FDA revised the patient and provider fact sheets regarding the suggested increased risks of myocarditis (inflammation of the heart muscle) and pericarditis (inflammation of the tissue surrounding the heart) following vaccination.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33464122/

[SheltieLover]

84. Right, & it generally resolves within a few days.

[LisaL]

44. Vast majority of myocarditis cases are in young males.

I don't see the reason to deprive the rest of the population of the booster.

[Crunchy Frog]

59. It will be interesting to see the Israeli data on that. nt

[womanofthehills]

83. Check out the FDA and CDC VAERS Data - (Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System)

New numbers come out every Friday and the numbers keep growing. Doctors and health providers are required to report to VAERS but many doctors claim it's too time consuming.

There is also a European data base for vaccine injury you can check out.

[Blues Heron]

7. once again, the goal is complete prevention and eradication

where did you get the idea that we should settle for half measures?

[DenaliDemocrat]

21. That has NEVER been the goal

You are spreading misinformation

[Blues Heron]

22. Imagine the exterminator comes to your house for a rat problem

and she says "I know you want them all gone but we're just going to go for getting them down to a reasonable level"

You'd get a new exterminator I'm sure.

Because the goal is total eradication and prevention.

[Hugin]

31. +1

Best analogy... EVER!

[Disaffected]

39. Not a good analogy at all.

Covid-19 is endemic worldwide and almost certainly will always be so. Total eradication at this point is not possible and vaccinations will not change that and, that was never the goal of vaccination. Thru vaccination and other public health measures, we can only hope to keep the level of new infections to an acceptably low rate.

As well, hope for development of an effective treatment....

[Hugin]

71. The only treatment for a virus is preventative vaccination. n/t

[Disaffected]

77. Vaccination is not a "treatment".

A virus treatment is something you take after the virus has infected you.

There are a number of good antiviral treatments such as those used to treat AIDS. Unfortunately, the existing antiviral treatments for Covid don't work all that well but the do exist (such as Remdesivir).

[Hugin]

78. Then there are no "treatments" for any virus, anywhere.

Not until Buck Rogers gets off his duff.

Thanks for proving my point.

[Disaffected]

79. I have no idea what you are talking about.

Over & out.

[SheltieLover]

41. Great analogy

[tritsofme]

50. Whose goal is that? Yours? It's not the goal of the US government.

I don’t know anyone arguing that “total eradication” is possible at this point.

[DenaliDemocrat]

63. You should probably google endemic

No one believes COVID will be eradicated. The vaccines are effectively preventing SEVERE disease, complete immunity is a nice bonus, but was never the goal.

Let’s just make shit up huh? Why do you think the FDA recommends NOT issuing boosters at this time? It’s because the vaccines are still doing their job AND doing it quite well.

[Hugin]

72. I'm guessing nobody thought smallpox would be eradicated.

Yet, here we are.

[LisaL]

73. FDA has not recommended not issuing boosters at this time.

I don't know where you got this idea. FDA is meeting on the 17th to discuss boosters.

[DenaliDemocrat]

74. Are you just making it up or do you not watch the news?

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/as-pfizer-moderna-and-j-j-pursue-booster-nods-fda-staffers-say-covid-19-vaccines-are-working

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/fda-says-covid-19-vaccines-remain-effective-without-boosters-11631726504


https://www.ft.com/content/af8da7d4-43ea-41d6-90ee-f959b3675cc5

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pennlive.com/nation-world/2021/09/fda-officials-resign-due-to-frustration-with-biden-administration-pushing-booster-shots.html%3FoutputType%3Damp

[LisaL]

76. The meeting is this Friday.

"The documents were released in advance of the FDA’s full-day meeting with its vaccine advisory committee Friday. The outside experts will weigh whether the agency should approve a booster for the Pfizer-BioNTech shot. Pfizer was the first vaccine maker to file its application and data with the agency."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/15/fda-neutral-boosters/

[DenaliDemocrat]

87. Told you so

Eom

[SheltieLover]

34. Absofuckingloutely!

[womanofthehills]

81. There cannot be a complete eradication of a virus that also attacks animals - polio & smallpox did

not naturally infect animals - only if they were lab infected.

The potential restart of transmission of SARS-CoV-2 among humans as a result of infections from animals or other sources may ultimately prove to be the most important technical barrier to eradication. Evidence that SARS-CoV-2 can replicate in and transmit between cats suggests that an animal reservoir capable of transmitting SARS-CoV-2 to humans relatively frequently could possibly come into existence even if measures are taken to prevent future transmission from wildlife to humans, such as banning wild animal “wet markets.”

https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/could-covid-19-ever-be-eradicated

[Blues Heron]

82. Doesn't mean we don't try for it though

we'll definitely never get there with a defeatist attitude.

[LisaL]

9. Says who?

NT

[Hugin]

2. I guarantee it, like everything else related to the pandemic in the US is politico-economic.

I'm going with President Biden on this one.

[SheltieLover]

35. Joe has been pushing for boosters for us all!

I agree. I'm with Joe on this.

Interesting 2 "top" FDA officials recently resigned because of Joe's push for boosters.

Joe needs to thoroughly clean house at these health agencies, imo.

[Hugin]

49. President Biden hasn't missed a beat WRT to COVID.

I think he shares my POV.

[SheltieLover]

51. Joe doesn't miss anything!

Dunno how he does it all. I get exhausted reading his schedule.

[Wicked Blue]

5. I wish the article said which vaccine was tested nt

[LisaL]

6. Pfizer. Israel only used Pfizer.

NT

[Wicked Blue]

12. Thank you, Lisa

I hope this ramps up manufacture of the Pfizer vaccine.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

17. Pfzier cut a great deal with Israel

Pfzier sent vaccine to Israel and got a ton of great data in return

[SheltieLover]

36. +1,000!

[SheltieLover]

26. Pfizer is the only vax in Israel

At least that I know about.

[roamer65]

8. Makes sense now.

Moderna dosed higher and is now seeing better efficacy.

[LisaL]

10. If higher dose was enough,

Moderna wouldn't even need a second dose. It's more of a timing between doses.

[roamer65]

15. ..and the higher doses between the timings.

The Moderna timing was also one week longer.

[SheltieLover]

27. Yup

[roamer65]

29. ...

[DenaliDemocrat]

75. NO!

Pfizer also tried a higher dose and actually had a REDUCED antibody response. The best response was noted at this dose

[CrackityJones75]

11. More is not always better.

I am not sure if more isn’t always better in this case or not but I think some attention needs to be paid there. Is boosting your antibodies 10 times necessary? Effective? I don’t know. It sounds great but if the general vaccinated public has enough antibodies to handle the virus does it make sense to boost it more?

Will boosting it 10 times more stop breakthrough infections?

[SheltieLover]

38. Great questions!

How can we know with our health agencies not providing info?

I trust the Israeli onfo though & boosters appear to be working.

Judging from international #s, Delta surges more than once. Not sure why but, speaking for myself, I want all the protection I can get!

[Disaffected]

43. Exactly.

We don't know the answer to that yet and 3rd doses are, for the most part, therefore premature at this point. It is not even clear if a third booster is efficacious in immunocompromised individuals.

[Crunchy Frog]

13. I'm very glad that my mother and I just went ahead and got ours. It's easy enough to do.

I'm following the data out of Israel with great interest. Not waiting for US politicians to get their act together.

[SheltieLover]

28. Glad you & Mom got boosters!

I plan to pursue one as well.

[Crunchy Frog]

57. Thanks. My mom is almost 82, had her last shot in Feb, very much keeping up with

what's actually going on with the pandemic and the Delta surge, and practically doing herself in from fear and anxiety over it. She's feeling much better now.

[SheltieLover]

60. Awwwww

So glad you were both able to get boosters & that her anxiety is reduced!

[USALiberal]

47. Lol

[LanternWaste]

85. Sure you've got the correct tab open?

[48656c6c6f20]

14. I wonder what 10 times more antibodies means?

Less susceptible to getting Covid or more protection from serious illness and or death? Or both?

[LisaL]

19. It works to restore the efficacy against infection to 95%.

"According to data submitted by the company to the Food and Drug Administration, the third dose of Pfizer’s Covid vaccine restores 95% protection from infection in the real world of Israel six months after the second dose."
https://texasnewstoday.com/according-to-pfizer-israeli-data-show-that-third-shots-restore-effectiveness-to-95/461420/

[48656c6c6f20]

46. Nice. Getting my Pfizer booster Friday

Thanks for the link.

[LisaL]

48. Already got my booster (I am qualified).

I got Moderna, but it should work the same way as Pfizer in increasing antibody levels. That 95% restored efficacy is against delta (since that's predominant in Israel now), so it should be even better than the first two doses.

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

66. Ditto, got mine last week, I was deemed qualified for 3rd Moderna shot, no prob after

6 month point was reached, was afraid infighting/politics would shut down Moderna booster access completely if I waited any longer

[Pobeka]

16. Antibodies, B-cells and T-cells are all part of the immunity process

I am not going to pretend I know how much of any of those three is enough, but I do know that low antibody levels does not necessarily mean you will get very sick, or sick enough to have any symptoms if infected if your T and B cells are ready to respond. I am attaching two links from the Atlantic. The articles are by Katherine J . Wu, who is a trained scientist in the field and an excellent science journalist IMHO:

In 2018, she earned a Ph.D. in microbiology and immunobiology from Harvard University. She is the 2020 winner of the Evert Clark/Seth Payne Award for Young Science Journalists.

I have not yet had time to read the second article, but a brief glance tells me it is worth a thoughtful, deliberate read.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/waning-immunity-not-crisis-right-now/619965/
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/sterilizing-immunity-myth-covid-19-vaccines/620023/

[Celerity]

88. Those are both great articles, I made OP's of them awhile back.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

18. My son is in the Pfzier booster trial

He had an antibody test done and his readings were in excess of the top reading on the antibody test. The Univ. of Texas has a great study where you can get antibody tests

Link to tweet

To identify what percent of the Texas population has antibodies in their blood, we will use two serology tests, also known as antibody tests. One serology test, called the total antibody test, will look for antibodies in the blood made in response to natural SARS-CoV-2 infection. A separate serology test called the Roche S-test will also be used to test for the presence of spike-protein antibodies, which are the antibodies arising from natural infection or vaccination against COVID-19. Serology results are especially important for detecting previous infections in people who had few or no symptoms.

We will review the results of the serology tests, along with responses to a series of surveys that help us understand what things could contribute to people's differences in COVID-19 symptoms and diagnosis.

[SheltieLover]

30. Pls thank you son for us all!

Ty for info.

[Tomconroy]

23. The case against the booster at this time is made in an

Last edited Wed Sep 15, 2021, 12:48 PM - Edit history (1)

Article in the Lancet:

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/13/1036600360/covid-19-vaccine-booster-shot

I think the best thing to do is consult your doctor. That's what I did.

[Poiuyt]

45. I wasn't able to open this link

Can you provide the highlights please?

[Tomconroy]

58. Sorry. For some reason the link isn't working.

The article is sort of too long to compress. I guess it's theme is: we have a lot to learn yet.
If you Google: 'Lancet Covid booster' I'm sure you'll find it.

[Tomconroy]

67. I've put in a link to an NPR story about the Lancet article.

[Poiuyt]

86. Thanks!

[lostnfound]

52. My doctor seems to be a Trumpian who trivializes covid.

I’m getting a new doctor.

[Crunchy Frog]

61. There's a good Reddit discussion of that article.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/pnfp6c/data_shows_covid_booster_shots_are_not/

Much higher quality of discussion than anything I've seen here on DU.

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

68. The two FDA people that quit authored that OPINION piece. It shouldnt be part of any review process

[Tomconroy]

69. They announced they are leaving but for now are still at the FDA

Here's a Politico article that covers a bit why the CDC is hesitating approving the Covid booster. It is a complicated issue and that's why I sought out the advice of my doctor. I suspect a lot of doctors might say: Let's see what the CDC says.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/09/13/cdc-biden-health-team-vaccine-boosters-511529

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

70. OK, when bureaucracies collide, infighting among health agencies is the last thing we need right now

[BeckyDem]

24. +1

I sure hope so because in NY, a judge blocked a vaccine mandate due to no religious exemption is offered.
I hope it is challenged by the state/feds but if it is upheld, numerous wackos will claim religious reasons..possibly making herd immunity more difficult to reach.


So we need the best protection possible, all considered.

[SheltieLover]

32. Absolutely!

Religion has no place in this, imo.

[PortTack]

42. Exactly! Not sure why the SCOTUS precedent is not being cited! Jacobson vs Massachusetts 1905

“The rights of the individual do not outweigh the rights of many when it comes to public health.”

[SheltieLover]

56. Great point!

[BeckyDem]

54. None.

[SheltieLover]

55. 👍