General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThis may be going a long way to prove a point but...
We have a patient who I have seen for about 25 years. She is a professional, reasonably well educated, above-average in appearance, presently single with some children. I have had nothing but difficulty on and off with her over the years but I am one of those people, like an idiot, who thinks that if I get through a situation then it wont happen again. I do that because im a moron.
In my new practice where Ive moved, she managed to find me and needed some work done. On her first visit, she acted out terribly using four letter words and shrieking in a complaining fashion. I told her she had to keep her voice down that they were other people around, and she negated my entreaties, but did in fact quiet down a bit. After her visit, the office manager called her told her that we wanted to keep her here but did that behavior was unacceptable. The woman apologized 50 different ways and promised that she would not do it again. When I came into the office the manager informed me that she had had this conversation and I replied to her that no we really dont want her in the practice because this is a never ending issue with her. The manager disagreed with me, which I fully understood, and stated that the patient said that she would behave herself from now on. I thought to myself yeah right.
Two weeks later the patient came in to complete her dental work and was more or less fine in the chair, and I knew what was coming. When she went to the front she headed out the door and the manager said excuse me, we have to settle your bill. At which point the woman started screaming at her that she wasnt going to pay anything and how dare we ask her for money after we had been so rude to her via the phone call, and stormed out the door. Out of curiosity immediately we did a little research and found that she had received the check in full from the insurance company and was thus participating in the theft of services scheme which in Pennsylvania is a felony over a certain amount of money.
I then told the manager that I knew this was going to happen and that was exactly why I had stated that maybe it would be best if she had let her go, by dismissing her from the practice, after that last visit filled with obscenities. Almost unbelievably, the manager said that she would work it out with her and she was sure that she could get her to pay the bill and behave yourself in the future. I then said to her this more or less:
Your tolerance and acceptance of her inappropriate behavior is exactly why we had Donald Trump for four years and God forbid that have them for another four years at some point. People in general do not know how to deal with severe mental illness and give credence to what these people say as though it means something and that they will get through to them. It doesnt work that way. She set us up to steal the dental services and is daring and defying us to seek retribution. I saw it coming, I understand that you did not see it coming, but you didnt listen to me and you did not take my word for it nor did you give me credence having known her for 25 years, and then we are now the victims in every way of this womans Lunatic behavior once again. Those of us in the population who were screaming when Trump was running for president that there was a basis of dementia and insanity here were nixed by those who knew better And are self-judging better judges of character.
Then I went on to say that the manager needs to take my judgment seriously in the future because in all these years of practice, I have never been sued by a patient, nor if I had a complaint to a state board about my behavior. This is because I anticipate for the most part bad behavior and compensate for it a priori. Those of us with good judgment screaming during the entire presidential campaign in 2016 to no avail with so many and now we have a crisis of chronic insanity/fascism pervading the country in extremis. I know that I have not heard the end of the situation with this lady in my office as we have not yet heard the end of the situation with the former guy.
Over my many years I have had to deal with people who were called quirky, eccentric, a little bit wifty , and the like, but in fact these people have some degree of treatable (in most cases) disturbance and are listed in the DSM, sometimes in multiple categories.
Many many years ago when I was a student, we had a class member who was an odd duck as they used to call them and I was always very careful to minimize my contact with him even though we shared a similar background and upbringing as well as commonality of religious institution belonging. One day I came back from vacation to find that he had been hospitalized by a law-enforcement agency in another state when he was driving back from seeing his parents because of his grossly inappropriate behavior to the police officer who stopped the car. He had shown me the report of the officer and I believed every single word of it given what I knew with him and he spent some fair amount of time in hospital, was released back into the school and had a reasonably successful career,with ongoing therapy, from which he is now retired. I dont know why people dont recognize the seriousness of disturbed behavior, perhaps because its easier to simply chalk it up to casual observance so its not to become terribly involved. Again in extremis we see this with child abuse such as we witnessed this week with The remarkable and heartbreaking testimony of those four brave women who had been so terribly abused and ignored by law-enforcement. It is to the detriment of society that this occurs and we need to do something about it as soon as possible, for we may be facing a greater catastrophe then we know how to handle.
GusBob
(7,286 posts)You punt the patient out of your practice. In our profession you have to make a recommendation of another provider and give them their records ( which may have clues to their behavior and reason for separation)
He or she goes somewhere else and how do they behave ? The same or better? If they act up and that provider punts them , do they learn?
To your point, people like this are like those traveler thieves, pulling scams wherever they can.
Like TFG
Hes been caught so many ways so many times and still he skates. He gets back in , things will be worse. With all this Miley business especially. He is gonna get them codes and the military and prove he can use them.
And god help us we will be flying black flags
cojoel
(953 posts)or maybe the insurance company regarding the fraud?
benfranklin1776
(6,443 posts)People like her who ape the lawless sociopathic disregard for the laws the rest of us abide by, shown by Agent Orange and his band of death cultists, are emboldened because they dont pay the legal penalties they so richly deserve.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,816 posts)that bill, and once she pays it off, get a new office manager.
Rebl2
(13,462 posts)was thinking. She ignored your wish that she not be allowed to make any further appointments and it sounds as though you know her much better than the office manager.
cate94
(2,808 posts)Pay your bill or I will contact your insurance company and the police. It is illegal and if shell do it to you, shell do it to others.
Fla Dem
(23,586 posts)At what point do you just say I no longer want her to be my patient. Let her see another Dentist/Hygienist (sorry not sure of your profession).
Are you not in a position to tell this woman if she continues to treat you like that she'll have to find another provider?
No one should be forced to tolerate endless abuse.
Heck my vet almost wouldn't see my cat because she was hissing at her.
I'm sorry you've had to endure this abuse.
Cozmo
(1,402 posts)We get these impressions for a reason, if it doesn't pass there smell test, nip it in the bud and get rid of it.
lambchopp59
(2,809 posts)I've had this one happen twice recently-- and seems to be getting worse:
Hospitals tend to go through cycles-- and one facility I was at was getting top heavy with "business degree" management. They're unable to sort out scenarios that bipolar patients will go to-- specifically, pitting one caregiver against another in drug-seeking scenarios. All these levels of management hear are some "Trumped up" complaint these management will call ancillary staff like myself on the carpet for. Usually the only thing that has salvaged my job now twice for certain--- was documenting the sideways behavior of the patient. It often becomes obvious to management investigating a patient complaint, but with minimal understanding of bipolar behavior. Odd part is then I've also been criticized for that same management for notes about a patient's behavior they may want to label as extraneous. I've always had examples of where this sort of documentation saved my ass.
Lately this has gotten to be a crazy game of outmaneuvering the ilk that FOX fucking NEWS directed to seek their instant gratification care through the Emergency Room.
But that's not all that's made this worse. Especially at the beginning of the pandemic-- holy moly the hospital hallways became deserted of anyone but caregivers, with any administrators either working from home or locked away from the "plague". It increased the disconnect from management to caregivers. The complaints are online or via some screeching voice on the phone.
I don't accept any "permanent" positions anymore. It's become ridiculous extent of keeping one's mouth shut, avoiding even light humor unless the situation is very, very inviting to utilize such, attempting to do only our job and absolutely nothing more for the patients that can become construed. I'm travelling for the remainder of my career- 4 more years at most. The contractual obligation to remain out of the politics generally works in the caregiver's favor. The sue-happy Trumpers (and yes it tends to account for most of them) are watching even the slightest tic of facial expression on any caregiver to submit a complaint, and managements that are tasked with sorting any genuinely based complaint from the drug-seeker's con game.
To some extent this has been true throughout my career, but since Trump... it's exploded into complete chaos. I recall when my career had it's fun, lighter moments.
3catwoman3
(23,946 posts)...reason to put up with this behavior and this insurance fraud for one more minute.
BobTheSubgenius
(11,559 posts)No one within earshot of that shrieking harridan deserved to hear it.
As to why people (pretend to?) ignore behaviour like that...I believe it comes in large part from "Surely someone will deal with this, and probably soon. I don't need to get involved."
Bev54
(10,039 posts)The dental office bills the insurance company and we pay any difference. They are assured to get the money then and usually they pre-approve the dental treatment with the ins company so they know how much to charge the patient. My dentist has my visa number on file, should I not pay the bill.
Response to PCIntern (Original post)
ancianita This message was self-deleted by its author.
PCIntern
(25,479 posts)Trust me, I know what I am doing here and will manage this situation appropriately. There are political and other factors here which enter into the equation which I did not relate. I understand all the comments and suggestions and would normally be entertained and likely performed. I have my reasons and no, I had nothing to do with this lady inappropriately. Suffice it to say this is a small town at certain levels and I am cognizant of facts which are relevant tgat I cannot post here.
Many people not in the business of being practitioners read newspaper articles, books, advice columns and truly do know what the laws and options are. Then there are the intangibles which make you stop and go Oh
. This is one of those times.
And yes I have dismissed a number of individuals from my practice over 42 years.
GusBob
(7,286 posts)I think the OM did the job maybe too well; retain a long time patient in a new office,and try to correct the situation as best as possible. Get the patient back for the appropriate follow up care, which you were willing to provide.
The OM did not have the benefit of your knowledge and you educated her to know better.
And the small town stuff, now we all have to deal with nasty Yelp reviews. That patient can rip your clinic online and because of HIPAA you cannot even reply
PCIntern
(25,479 posts)And thank you for elucidating so clearly.
Patton French
(744 posts)The stories of sadness