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Tue Sep 21, 2021, 10:04 AM

A Fly in the Ointment

In the late summer of 2006, I was having lunch at an extended family function. People were talking about various issues in the news. Out of curiosity, I asked a relative if he thought a freak named John Mark Karr, who was being imported from southeast Asia, had killed a little girl named JonBenet Ramsey? My relative was a retired FBI agent, as was his father. After controlling his laughter, he said no, Karr had not killed anyone.

He explained to me that at times, the media is used to distract the public's attention from something else that they should actually be paying attention to. Such distraction always involve something that creates a strong, automatic emotional response. My next question was if this was something the Bush-Cheney administration was engaged in? The answer was no, that while they sometimes hired outside groups for assisting in perception management, this was a specialty of groups that function no matter who is in office. They may be tasked with coming up with emotional keys such as "yellow cake" and "mushroom clouds" for an administration, they are as capable of manipulating a simpleton like George W. Bush as an average American.

Yet, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, to be blunt.

The case of Gabby Petito is tragic. Her family is devastated. The boy friend's family is also suffering, though his parents' refusal to talk with investigators has not shed them in a sympathetic light. Her murder will cause pain in her community. That should not happen to any person, though it continues to happen all too often. The Petito case has no doubt brought up painful memories of similar cases for many of us. For but one example -- and I could list a half-dozen -- a good friend who I had a mad crush on in 9th grade went to visit her mother in Florida. She was murdered by a freak with a chain saw. I can still clearly see her beautiful face in my mind's eye as I write this.

While a single, isolated tragic case sometimes make the national news, it rarely gets the amount of coverage as the Petito, Ramsey, or Elizabeth Smart cases. One could conclude that this is intentional. The target audience is obviously those who identify innocence with white, blonds, cute females. This causes some negative responses, not always expressed, by those who are aware that white, blonds, cute females are not the exclusive victims of "going missing." Intentional or not, the media can create divisions within groups that should be united by such violence against women.

Watching various news reporting on Gabby's case -- including an internet site from a station in the community she lived with her boyfriend in -- it is evident that emotions tend to block out rational thinking. Viewers were texting questions that suggest they had zero understanding of how investigations work, much less the Constitution. A crowd of citizens gathered on the murderer's parents' lawn, and while public gatherings are also covered in the Constitution, there are obvious potential problems when a group of grasshoppers can turn into a mob of lucusts. This phenomenon only takes place when emotion trumps rational thought.

I've been discussing this topic on an internet forum, with members of a group that excludes Trump supporters. It is similar in some ways to the unstable behaviors of Trump supporters. I've outlined it in the contexts of individual versus group psychology, with overlaps in a sociological view of societies under the stress and anxiety of change -- including social decay. Many people respond on an emotional level,, and believe whatever gets those emotions sparking in their brain. And that is mechanical functioning.

It is not putting the parts of the brain that evolved to make us potentially a fully conscious human being. I do not use that term in the way that "woke" -- while potentially a good concept, can be a shallow fad -- is currently used and abused. I mean conscious, rational, organized thinking, the type that accepts that others have wants and needs. The type that recognizes the distinction between Gabby's social media posts, and the police footage. The type that identifies the seemingly never-ending numbers of teens and young ladies who go "missing" as unacceptable. And that, by no coincidence, is the type of thinking that identifies the actions of the Trump cult as unacceptable, too.

Fear is never overcome by more fear. Anxiety is not dealt with successfully with more anxiety. Frustration is not curbed by more frustration. Hatreds are not cured by way of more hate. An unconscious mind cannot become conscious unconsciously.

Rather than allowing the Petito case to serve as a national distraction, we should use it as a model of how emtions are manipulated on a large scale. It is not that different than the way in which those who practice perception management -- be it lies about incubator babies on concrete floors, yellow cake and mushroom clouds, or how the 2020 elections were stolen -- have manipulated the 40% of the unconscious American public.

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Arrow 49 replies Author Time Post
Reply A Fly in the Ointment (Original post)
H2O Man Sep 21 OP
Sherman A1 Sep 21 #1
H2O Man Sep 21 #3
spanone Sep 21 #2
H2O Man Sep 21 #4
Pobeka Sep 21 #5
H2O Man Sep 21 #6
MontanaMama Sep 21 #7
H2O Man Sep 21 #8
KS Toronado Sep 21 #9
H2O Man Sep 21 #10
mountain grammy Sep 21 #11
H2O Man Sep 21 #13
StarfishSaver Sep 21 #12
H2O Man Sep 21 #15
7wo7rees Sep 21 #14
H2O Man Sep 21 #16
MagickMuffin Sep 21 #17
H2O Man Sep 21 #20
grantcart Sep 21 #18
H2O Man Sep 21 #21
calimary Sep 21 #19
H2O Man Sep 21 #22
Saoirse9 Sep 21 #23
questionseverything Sep 21 #25
H2O Man Sep 21 #27
questionseverything Sep 21 #28
H2O Man Sep 21 #30
Decoy of Fenris Sep 22 #35
H2O Man Sep 22 #36
H2O Man Sep 21 #29
Saoirse9 Sep 22 #40
H2O Man Sep 22 #41
Saoirse9 Sep 22 #42
H2O Man Sep 22 #43
Saoirse9 Sep 22 #46
H2O Man Sep 22 #48
Saoirse9 Sep 22 #47
H2O Man Sep 22 #49
MustLoveBeagles Sep 21 #24
H2O Man Sep 21 #31
MustLoveBeagles Sep 21 #33
voteearlyvoteoften Sep 21 #26
H2O Man Sep 21 #32
crickets Sep 21 #34
H2O Man Sep 22 #37
malaise Sep 22 #38
H2O Man Sep 22 #39
blogslug Sep 22 #44
H2O Man Sep 22 #45

Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 10:08 AM

1. So

Just getting there are we?

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Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #1)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 10:12 AM

3. Just getting back here.

I've been having interesting conversations on this specific topic since last Friday on a forum I inhabit frequently. I've wrote about this topic on DU since 2004, though.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 10:09 AM

2. K&R

Interesting.

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Response to spanone (Reply #2)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 10:13 AM

4. Thanks!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 10:19 AM

5. For profit news-entertainment must be quite the amplifier of this tactic, if not the originator?

Thanks for the post

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Response to Pobeka (Reply #5)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 10:27 AM

6. Right.

24/7 coverage for the Pavlovian responses.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 11:33 AM

7. Kick.

100%.

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Response to MontanaMama (Reply #7)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 11:34 AM

8. Thank you!

I appreciate that!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 11:41 AM

9. Very insightful.....

thanks for furthering my education.

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Response to KS Toronado (Reply #9)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 12:06 PM

10. Thanks!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 12:33 PM

11. K&R

For a good dose of reality.

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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #11)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 12:42 PM

13. Thank you!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 12:38 PM

12. Thanks for this insightful food for thought.

 

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #12)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 01:03 PM

15. Thanks!

I find myself thinking of the dichotomy of Gabby's social media post, and the film from the police camera. In the past week, I read some valuable reports on the connections between social media and depression rates among teenaged girls. As if being a teen isn't difficult enough. Having been a teenager myself was tough enough. Raising two sons and two daughters increased my awareness of how technology has amplified some of those difficulties.

All four have been employed in social work, though my oldest son burned out. The other son and both daughters currently work with teenagers. I think their jobs are more difficult than such work was decades ago.

One of the things I think is interesting is that it's not only the media focuses on a white, blonde, attractive young lady ..... surely, if those male police officers were, as well. Had it been a non-white couple, I am confident it would have gone differently. It's not just that they had enough to charge Gabby with a domestic violence charge ..... had she not been a cute, blonde, white female, it is safe to say the officer wouldn't have said she came out of the stop as the shining flower. She would have been in handcuffs.

More, any conscious investigated would have focused upon at least one of the cues in the boyfriend's behavior that indicated he was lying. Add the initial report that he had been seen slapping her, but both denied he participated in the violence beyond pushing her, they would have recognized the likelihood had he had instructed her "not to tell." Add her behaviors while being questioned, and any good police investigator or forensic social worker would have been aware that there was a heck of a lot more going on between a couple in a cramped van on a multi-month vacation.

I could go on and on, but discussions on domestic violence and race can be difficult, as you know!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 12:47 PM

14. Thank you H2O..

Your insight and wisdom is very much appreciated!

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Response to 7wo7rees (Reply #14)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 01:05 PM

16. Thanks!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 01:05 PM

17. Thank you for your insights on this



I had a neighborhood girlfriend murdered back in the 80's, white girl. Of course the media wasn't in full swing back then so only local coverage. Never found her killer.


Manufactured news is what drives advertising dollars. Sensationalism has also been the true seller of news. It's just now being driven by corporations who don't really want us to be cognizant of our thoughts, only our emotions which you pointed out so elegantly.

Thanks again





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Response to MagickMuffin (Reply #17)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 01:52 PM

20. Thank you!

I can still picture Susan in my mind's eye, all these decades later. I'm friends with a number of her siblings and cousins, and am aware of the damage inflicted upon an extended family.

I agree 100% with you about the media.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 01:39 PM

18. I have been giving this modern mass cognitive dissonance experience considerable thought recently

My current vocation brings me to visit mostly seniors in mostly rural areas.

As you can imagine I meet a large percentage of people who supported Trump. Many of them are not too bright. I am thinking of a Mexican American 74 year old who had a huge Trump - Make America Great Again - flag in the front yard. As I was leaving I realized that this fellow's English only included a few dozen words and 4 that he knew was "Make, America, Great, Again". That was why he supported Trump. He wanted America to be Great. That was all he knew about the election.

Most of the Trump (or suspected Trump supporters) were perfectly reasonable, faith based folks, plus a smaller group of radical nitwits.

If you asked this larger group of folks if they would ever support a candidate that had repeatedly cheated on his wife and was repeatedly divorced, engaged in running gambling enterprises, had consistently failed with multiple million dollar bankruptcies had been found to run a fraudulent university scam and was forced to return tens of millions of dollars, advocated trade war and massive federal debt as standard policy, none of them would support that.

It reminds me of a conversation I was having with a farmer in Central Washington State who was complaining about the federal government. This part of the country probably has the greatest federal support on a per capita basis because of Grand Coulee Damn than any other part of the country sans small communities with large military bases. I was pointing out that the GCD was in fact a federal project and not a tribal one and that he benefited from cheap electricity and water for irrigation.

When he informed me that all of his water was well water and that he was down to 100,000 year old water. The fact that he was using water that fell to the earth 100,000 years ago stunned me and we wandered down different paths in our conversation. I was aware of which Church he attended and was aware that their theology was off the scale nuttery.

I asked him how old the earth was? He said 4,000 years old.

It was such a stunning example of cognitive dissonance that I didn't try to integrate the obvious contradiction but simply switched the conversation back and forth in a sympathetic matter so I could see someone who was highly functional operating his brain in dual mode without the two parts of the brain talking to each other. It was like a science experiment.

And now days I will meet some highly functioning perfectly pleasant people who demonstrate a similar dissonance with their faith and Donald Trump. They are not stupid people but their brains have stopped working in an integrated way. Even more interesting this isn't a purely American experience. Other countries are going through similar experiences ranging from Brazil on the one hand with a nut job for President and UK on the other with its Brexit and even a large anti vax demonstration last weekend.

Like you I concluded that this is a result of a large shared experience of fear.

What is the cause of this fear?

I believe that this fear is consistent with the very prophetic work 50 years ago of Alvin Toffler in his book "Future Shock".

The basic premise is that change will continue to accelerate beyond our ability to absorb the nature of change.

When I look at a Trump supporter in Pennsylvania I see a blue collar guy who worked all his life in coal or steel and doesn't understand a world that is going to use more solar and synthetic materials. He doesn't see how he will work after 50 and how his kids will survive at all. "We have been here for generations, what are we supposed to do, move?".

To which the answer is yes, move and adapt. Moving and adapting is the one constant that all Americans share in their heritage. From the first natives that kept moving past San Diego looking for even better land further south to the their progeny who are now jumping fences to get back to San Diego. The one constant is that everyone here moved (or was forcibly moved) and adapted. For those of us with family history's in the west, we just kept moving, and continue to move around at a much higher rate than many in the east and the south.

To conclude, as I frequently do, that the US is not particularly well educated or smart is a cheap formulation that doesn't penetrate the epidermis of the problem. I find myself wondering about that when I listen to someone with low education, skills and sophistication talk at length about a subject that they have a deep interest in. like football or the Pacific campaigns of WWII and I realize that this person isn't "stupid" but in a cage. Its amazing how much detail and knowledge a "red neck" can have on a subject that interests him.

That cage, I believe, is our ability to manage change, which you could argue is a basic part of intelligence or at least self awareness. It is a cage we are all forced to confront until we can find a way to absorb an ever increasing rate of change in every aspect of life. Like contemplating economic systems in the future I usually end up with "well how did they do it on Star Trek"? How do we create a populace that is open to and embraces change?

I am more sympathetic to the hard working guy who never did anything wrong, got up and worked a hard days work, went to Church on Sundays and followed the Commandments pretty much to a tee. For decades he was told that same sex love was an abomination and then in a split second on the sociological scale he was told that it was OK, that a good loving same sex couple was morally superior to the guy who came home and beat his wife every Friday night.

He can even accept the argument. His problem is that he no longer trusts his own ability to know what is permanent and what is built on sand. So he clings to his guns and religion and the idiot leader who says that is OK.

It is natural that we react with outrage to the Republican fascists who exploit this fear. It is more important in the long run that we attempt to understand the roots of this fear as you do in this invaluable post.

Good to hear from you again.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #18)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 04:18 PM

21. It is always

good to hear from you!

I'm likely repeating myself, though at my age, that is one of my least annoying habits. I live rurally, literally the sticks. About half of the people along the road have a variety of Trump signs on their properties. Still, I am on good terms with all but one family. Most are volunteer firemen and EMS. I respect that. I've known some for over 50 years, not to where we socialize at each other's homes, but where we can have decent conversations beyong what the weather is like.

The majority of the guys are hunters, trappers, and fishermen. If I ask them about changes they have witnessed first-hand over the last half-century, they can identify things relating to the soil, water, and weather. Yet if I mention climate change, without exception they say that it is a hoax. Some even point out that China is behind the hoax, which translates to their remembering Trump saying that. Somehow, they are not able to connect the water, soil, and weather with the climate.

I also maintain a few casual friendships with people I went to school with. This includes some with rather rigid christian belief systems, which predispose them to supporting Trump. Odd, that. One had told me, during the 2016 election season, that a relative used to work for Trump, and that he was a terrible human being. But over time, he told me that "God" wanted Trump re-elected. I said that I didn't think it likely that "God" was involved in US politics. I said I see no evidence that would influence me to praise or blame "God" for American politics. He assured me that "God" would make sure Trump was re-elected to carry out his divine plan. He said he'd explain this to me after the election. It's been what? Eleven months. I haven't heard from him since.

Fear is the number one emotion being exploited and capitalized on in society today.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 01:51 PM

19. Yep. Perception Management. That's all it is.

Perception Management and Manipulation.

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Response to calimary (Reply #19)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 04:19 PM

22. Yes.

It tends to saturate the media, including social and anti-social media. A prime example in recent times has been the Q cult.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 06:42 PM

23. I must admit

Although I barely noticed this story at first -- I don't watch news -- I'm just as involved/interested as anyone else now.

The story is everywhere online. And it is horribly sad and happens every single day in this country.

There's more interest because she is white, blond and cute. And it shouldn't be that way.

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Response to Saoirse9 (Reply #23)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 07:30 PM

25. She had over 600,000 followers on instagram or whatever platform she was using

I think that generated interest and held it from early on, but being attractive never hurts

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Response to questionseverything (Reply #25)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 07:43 PM

27. At the time of

her death, she had a bit over 160,000 instagram followers. I agree that generated interest.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #27)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 07:50 PM

28. I had read over 600,000 but 160,000 is a lot

Here at du if something gets 300 recs itís a big deal

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Response to questionseverything (Reply #28)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 08:12 PM

30. I agree.

160,000 is a heck of a lot. (I wish I had a dollar for every one of them.) I'm unfamiliar with that social media, but I will guess more people have accessed it in the past week or so. There are certainly more than 600,000 people following the tragic case now, much more.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #30)

Wed Sep 22, 2021, 12:13 AM

35. Currently upwards of 500 million views/searches re. her on TikTok.

Significantly more viewers than the population of America are tuning in to this particular story. Only Britany Spears is more 'popular', at 1.2 billion at the height of her conservatorship stories.

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Response to Decoy of Fenris (Reply #35)

Wed Sep 22, 2021, 08:04 AM

36. Isn't that something?

I know it is a big story in Ireland. Hopefully, it will spark meaningful conversations about domestic violence.

When my daughters were young, they used to have me watch some program with Ms. Spears on it. They loved it, and being a father includes a duty to pretend I liked what they wanted me to watch with them -- certain that I enjoyed the show! (grin) I did enjoy spending time with them, of course.

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Response to Saoirse9 (Reply #23)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 08:09 PM

29. I've watched some coverage

of the search in the wilderness for the boyfriend. It is not certain, of course, that is where he went to hide, or if so, that he's still there. The land in that preserve looks rather flat, so it is distinct from my experience in the woods. I'd assume that he is familiar with moving while off the known paths the investigators are searching .... though more goes on than the public knows.

As I type this, I'm thinking that -- just in case you are on the edge of your seat fascinated by my experiences in rural, upstate New York -- I'd best include at least a brief comment. Let's start near the earlier response to our good friend grantcart's comment. The red necks around here all collect guns and ammo; I collect flint artifacts, etc. But we all know that to travel relatively fast without being seen, you follow the animal trails -- here, primarily deer trails. At this very moment, you are almost surely thinking back to the 1992 film, "Last of the Mohicans," particularly the ambush scene. Good call on your part, as that was the common mode in the NE, deer path travel and attacks. The great woodland trails followed these.

Here, one would go up-hill, and locate a rock shelter, to remain hidden from the thermal imaging technologies surely being used. And, to answer your question, plenty of tracking dogs can navigate a scent through water, so long as it is standing water. But if he took a stream, that becomes much more difficult as time passes. Especially as it has rained there. In terms of his possibly looking for fresh water away from a stream, in these parts you generally find a spring near a rockshelter.

Now, I don't know much about Florida ..... I have a sister that lives there, though! But I am aware that in what you know as the Seminole War(s), the US military was frustrated in their attempts to "win" against people familiar with the wet lands. Of course, things have likely changed in the 200+ years since that time. But it remains difficult to track someone in swampy regions.

I agree with you that the coverage of this case should not depend on the victim's looks. At the same time, being young, white, blonde and cute shouldn't lessen coverage. It's a strange thing. My niece has a daughter about the same age, who is white, blonde, and cute ..... in fact, she looks very much like Gabby. So even though I'm old, moldy, and ugly as sin, I think about how horrible this is for her family, and think about how I'd approach tracking him.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #29)

Wed Sep 22, 2021, 12:37 PM

40. If only they had you to help track him

Search would be over in no time Iím sure.

I have to tell you a story.

When I was 22, exactly Gabbyís age, I was married to a violent alcoholic. Married less than a year, we got into an argument and I poured a giant can of V-8 over his head. He had accused me of sleeping with my boss. I got the hell beat out of me. When he passed out I called police and they sent for an ambulance. I had a concussion and some major bruising but nothing broken and no injuries to my face.

I was in ER and the cops had despaired of having me press charges because most women donít. But I took a cab to the police station and filled out the police report.

Husband spent the night in jail, didnít remember a thing the next day, just woke up with V-8 in his hair. We had to go to court but the court date was months maybe a year away and by that time he had sobered up and I dropped charges.

3 years or so later my sober husband pounded me on the thigh and I realized he was no just violent because of the booze, it was in him. I divorced him. There was a lot more to the divorce than a bruised leg but thatís too long a story. Basically my in-laws were always covering for his bad behavior and I was outnumbered. Years later post divorce I was picking up our dog. We shared custody. His new very young girlfriend was at his house and she had a healing bruise on her face that looked to be a few weeks old.

This kidís parents will do anything to keep him out of jail. They probably gave him money to run with.

I watched the video of her and I could see she was pretty close to the end of her rope. She could have come clean with the cops like I did. Would have saved her life at least for a while.

That 22 year old kid is me minus the social media. I am heart broken for her and I can feel the anxiety she felt.

Millions of women of all ages colors shapes and sizes know exactly how Gabby felt.

I hope her story results in stronger DV laws.

I want to fight for women like her. Like me. I donít know how to start.

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Response to Saoirse9 (Reply #40)

Wed Sep 22, 2021, 02:07 PM

41. Thank you for sharing this.

It used to be -- and still too frequently is -- that women are ashamed to report abuse. Or the cycle convinces them that "he's really trying to be better." Or, worse, they believe that they are somehow at fault ...... the old "look what you made me do!" bullshit. I'm glad that you are out of that situation, and now with a Good Man. (I'm fond of my brother-in-law, you know.)

The #1 reason police used to be so hesitant to press charges is due to the number of abusive husbands with a badge and gun. Indeed, all of the other "reasons" stacked on top of each other would not add up to a tiny fraction of this #1 reason. That's a sad fact, and certainly closely connected to the outrageous levels of police violence in communities -- outside of their homes -- that we witness. The job attracts them.

Years ago, my late brother beat his wife, who I am very close with -- from before he met her, until long after they were divorced. Looking back, I know that head injuries from boxing made him prone to violence. But it is not an excuse. He worked in a defense industry plant, one I had worked in years before. I was furious, and attempted to enter through the heavily guarded gate with my old badge, because I wanted to beat the shit out of him in front of his co-workers & friends. Alas, they did not allow me to enter. Thus, I was young and stupid back then -- as opposed to my status as old and stupid today. I thought violence could resolve violence.

Though I do think self-defense is a Good Thing, in the majority of cases, the solution is supposed to be the legal system. The reason laws have changed, of course, is because too many cops refused to arrest a violent man for domestic abuse. Now they are always supposed to arrest the offender, no matter who they are, or what position they hold in their community. Yet, as we see on the film of Gabby with the police, they did not do what they were required to do ..... instead searching for justification to not make an arrest. That psses me off. Had they charged Gabby, and actually separated her from her boy friend, it would have taken about twently minutes to get her relaxed enough to tell the truth -- that, exactly as reported, he had been hitting her. It was so obvious that he had threatened her when the police were catching up to their vehicle, and she was extremely intimidated by him standing close enough to hear what he was saying. His demeanor made it clear that he was manipulating the police. So I wish I had been there at the time with the police, as anyone with experience would have been able to get him incarcerated, rather than put in a hotel for the night. Shit, they have no idea if he stayed away from her or not that night -- something I find unlikely, as abusers tend to want to control their victim in these situations.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #41)

Wed Sep 22, 2021, 02:50 PM

42. I watched the video or part of it

Her part. The officer did separate them, told her to sit in the squad car and she seemed grateful for the respite.

I stopped watching then. I didnít want to hear him speak.

The cops should have had better training to deal with a DV victim. They should have offered her a place to stay away from him. They should have asked her if the civilian report of him hitting her was true. She didnít have a mark on her but I never had anything visible either. They fucked up. My incident took place in Brooklyn and those cops are very tough. They also see lots of DV and know how to deal with the victims.

I think the reason I got away is I am basically a bitch. Nobody messes with me. I have a ferocious temper and often, I gave as good as I got. Only a drunk person would be brave enough to come after me physically. I am not being facetious, itís true. But I was teeny tiny back then and no matter how much I fought back it wasnít enough.

My temper lasts a couple days and then I would usually relent. In his case he had a healthy respect for the law and the arrest scared him. He behaved well for years because he had been arrested.

DV perpetrators never think the violence is their fault. I wrote a paper once about external locus of control. They are unable to take responsibility for being violent. I would guess this Laundrie guy has a whol narrative about how she mean or provocative and none of it was his fault.

Anyway in her case the worst thing she couldíve done was be alone with him for months in end. With no way to call the cops if he took her phone. Those cops were her only chance and they blew it.

It makes me sick to think of her in the middle of nowhere with an aggrieved violent cry baby who had no way to control her except violence. She just never stood a chance.

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Response to Saoirse9 (Reply #42)

Wed Sep 22, 2021, 02:58 PM

43. I respectfully disagree.

The police did not separate them, they just moved her to a different part of the same general spot. Both her and the boyfriend could see each other, which is not okay. They needed to actually be in different places. The only officer that did something approaching adequate was the female who began talking to Gabby about the toxic relationship. I respect that. But it needed to be done in a location distinct from where they were pulled over, and in separate rooms. She needed to understand that she could speak safely.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #43)

Wed Sep 22, 2021, 07:00 PM

46. I read that they were separated for the night

Laundrie had to stay in a hotel for a night. I don't know if that meant that they questioned Gabby after the boyfriend left to stay in a hotel. Presumably police drove him there.

Watching the video of her last night was eerie. Like watching a movie where you scream at the screen "don't go into the house!" because the bad guy is in there. But this was real, she did reunite with the bad guy and he has evidently killed her.

I wish I could have talked to her for 5 minutes and told her he would never change and it would only get worse. People said similar things to me though, and it didn't make any difference.

Ultimately though I am too much of a bitch to tolerate violence and manipulation. I wish
I could loan out my bitchiness to other women.

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Response to Saoirse9 (Reply #46)

Wed Sep 22, 2021, 07:13 PM

48. The police did

set it up for him to stay in a hotel. And left her with the van. They strongly recommended the two not communicate until the following day. However, the two were under zero legal obligation to not communicate, or to stay apart. I am unaware of any report that suggests there was any follow-up to see if where the pair were that night. The chances of them not communicating, in my opinion, is near zero. If they did communicate, it is very likely they headed north a few hours later.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #41)

Wed Sep 22, 2021, 07:12 PM

47. woops sorry

Had they charged Gabby, and actually separated her from her boy friend, it would have taken about twently minutes to get her relaxed enough to tell the truth -- that, exactly as reported, he had been hitting her. It was so obvious that he had threatened her when the police were catching up to their vehicle, and she was extremely intimidated by him standing close enough to hear what he was saying. His demeanor made it clear that he was manipulating the police. So I wish I had been there at the time with the police, as anyone with experience would have been able to get him incarcerated, rather than put in a hotel for the night. Shit, they have no idea if he stayed away from her or not that night -- something I find unlikely, as abusers tend to want to control their victim in these situations.


I was on my phone and didn't see this bit. Sorry. Tiny screen.

The cops are probably kicking themselves -- forever. I couldn't live with myself if I knew I could have prevented a murder and didn't.

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Response to Saoirse9 (Reply #47)

Wed Sep 22, 2021, 07:17 PM

49. It's such an ugly case.

My guess is that these police had little if any training regarding domestic abuse beyond the shallowest of coverage. Before I worked for the mental health clinic, I had worked with all types of domestic violence for years in another county. There were detectives who were outstanding at their jobs, who would sometimes ask me for my opinion, or invite me in when they questioned individuals involved.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 07:13 PM

24. K&R

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Response to MustLoveBeagles (Reply #24)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 08:14 PM

31. Thank you!

(My son got a DNA test for his puppy, which is primarily a treeing walker raccoon hound. But one of her grandparents was a beagle. My son said that the two breeds are very closely related.)

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #31)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 11:24 PM

33. I didn't know about that breed

We've mostly had tri-colors. One of our females (she's passed away) was a Bluetick.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 07:31 PM

26. Yes!

Another thoughtful essay. TY

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Response to voteearlyvoteoften (Reply #26)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 08:21 PM

32. Thank you!

I really appreciate that.

One of my closest friends -- she was my 4th and 5th grade sweetheart , before wising up -- reads DU from time to time, though she's never been a member. She is on top of the issues with "missing" Native American women, and is sending me some important information that I will share on DU soon. On another thread a couple of days ago, when I mentioned that topic, one of our good friends asked me for information, and I want to make sure that what I have is up to date and accurate.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 11:47 PM

34. Thanks for a thoughtful post and thought provoking conversation. K&R

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Response to crickets (Reply #34)

Wed Sep 22, 2021, 08:17 AM

37. Thanks, crickets!

There has been some good conversation on this thread. And I flipped through some news coverage of the case last night, and was pleased to see that there was some decent reporting on the domestic violence issues, including how the police had responded when they pulled the couple over. From the first time I saw that film, I knew the police had missed the last opportunity to save Gabby's life. Since there are mandatory laws on arrests per domestic violence, it would seem that police be trained in how to identify the obvious cues that are glaring on that film.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Sep 22, 2021, 08:30 AM

38. Another Great OP my Brother

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Response to malaise (Reply #38)

Wed Sep 22, 2021, 08:41 AM

39. Thank you, my Wonderful Sister!

My children tell me that the things that I find fascinating are boring to most people. But on other forums, I've noted a lot of attention to the fights between Sonny Liston and Muhammad Ali. There's so much misinformation and disinformation in many of the discussions that I decided to get out my old scrapbooks, review magazine & newspaper accounts from 1963 to '65, and write a 4-part article on their rivalry. A good friend of The Champ has a good internet site, and he is going to publish the series there. It takes me a bit longer to write serious articles these days -- especially with a large pile of sources stacked beside me -- but that does allow me some breaks to watch the news!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Sep 22, 2021, 03:01 PM

44. Rita Cosby

Remember her?

Years ago, when the John Mark Karr story was at it's craziest someone on here posted a photo of Rita and a swarm of photographers, pressed up against the window of a cop car, with Karr (ha!) inside. Another DUer (bless them) captioned the photo: "Come back! The media needs you!"

I still think about that.

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Response to blogslug (Reply #44)

Wed Sep 22, 2021, 04:37 PM

45. I'm sad to report,

though it is my duty, that I do remember Rita Cosby. I likely saw the post you mentioned, and would have liked it as well. But the mind works in strange ways ...... maybe I have blocked Rita out of my mind almost completely, including when I listen to Sgt. Peppers?

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