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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTwo young Mormons rang my bell today, It instantly reminded me of my time in the jungles of Vietnam.
They were nicely shaved and recently showered, nice trim haircuts, really soft hands, yea I couldn't help but think back on Vietnam and how similar it was.
They really did stop by today, I took their little card and said goodbye and I hope they survive.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)I'm sorry you had to go through that. No, for real.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)because of their sacrifice.
kardonb
(777 posts)what " sacrifice " ? 2 years of wandering around , all expenses paid , scrubbed clean , well fed , comfortably housed . Annoying people on a daily basis , proselytizing for an absurd cult . I don't see any sacrifice here at all . Time would be better spent helping and caring for needy people .
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)statement that there are different ways of "serving", and her sons left as boys but returned as men. After their vacation, er, sacrifice.
edited for clarity
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Her interview in which she was asked why her sons have never served in the military since they support the wars.
StevieM
(10,499 posts)the cost of the mission. I'm not sure how comfortably they are housed....it probably varies from mission to mission, depending on location.
FreeState
(10,553 posts)Seriously - when I was a missionary I lived in a studio apartment thy would have been condemned her, no heat, not finished and very uncomfortable.
Missionaries pay their own way - as a missionary you hope people in local congrigation feed you, otherwise you have about $30 a week for food.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)they just need to go to the local food warehouse and stock up
FreeState
(10,553 posts)the local food warehouse is not for missionaries at all. You rely on members inviting you over for dinner. In fact the members are told to invite the missionaries from the pulpit all the time.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)I may never have been a missionary, but I was invited to shop.
don't know.....
Scuba
(53,475 posts)FreeState
(10,553 posts)I never said anything of comparing the two, only that the OP was way off. But if it makes you feel better to add stuff to my comments go right ahead, it says way more about you than it does me.
On the comparison grounds, there is none. Even being so, it doesn't mean we should make stuff up or pass along false information, like in the op, to make our point sound better.
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)Yes, those two young men are Elders in the LDS church, and yes, to Mormons Jews are Gentiles.
calimary
(80,700 posts)Glad you're here - your very name suggests you understand the real (and perpetual) wrongney bottom line here. We need you! And our President needs you too. We don't have this thing nailed down yet.
Now get to work.
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)Straight Dem ballot.
One county race has three candidates, two Republicans and one Democrat. You vote for two. I'll only vote for the Dem.
In the non-partisan races for judge retention, I looked up political contributions made by the judges. I found out one donated to Democrats and the other two donated to Republicans, so I'll be voting to retain the one who donates to Democrats and vote against retaining the two who donated to Republicans.
I don't always agree with or even like what Democrats do when they get into office, they're usually way too conservative, but I've been around long enough to know that these are the choices we are given and anything is better than a Republican.
gvstn
(2,805 posts)I used to vote the man but now I vote straight democrat. Even a DINO asshat is better than giving the GOP an extra seat.
It is a numbers game and every seat counts.
I wish the news/talk shows had spent the last two years concentrating on the importance of voting down ticket. I know the Presidential race is the ratings grabber but Congress has to be given a clear majority in both houses to really get things done. When I was a low information voter I skipped the down ticket races. I think there should be more of a GOTV push for "if in doubt vote Democratic".
No Vested Interest
(5,157 posts)I wish the Prez would emphasize (more) the importance of electing a Dem Congress - Senate and House.
He also needs to ask for the vote. He does, but in a more oblique way. I feel that was a big failing of Kerry's - he never did ask citizens for their vote - the same way a salesman has to "ask for the sale". Very important.
gvstn
(2,805 posts)I hadn't thought of that. When I meet politicians in person, asking for my vote, it does work. I still look at party, now, but the asking does make me look at them a second time and research their platform.
I wonder if their is some research where campaigns think that makes a candidate look weak? It doesn't strike me that way.
I'm going to pay attention and see if Obama ever asks for one's vote rather than explain why it is the best decision.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)hunter
(38,264 posts)If one or both accepts the invitation, then neither Elder can trust the other won't confess later.
They don't come to my house. Our family has been blacklisted by the Mormons ever since one of my ancestors, a mail order bride from Europe, decided she didn't like sharing her husband with other women and took off with a "gentile" government surveyor. He probably told her the marriage wasn't valid in the USA and asked if she wanted a drink.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)pwb
(11,205 posts)aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)classof56
(5,376 posts)Barber's music as the backdrop for these horrific scenes makes the emotional impact almost unbearable. I have never been able to get myself to watch "Platoon". Just too painful. The more I learn about Viet Nam (which happened in my 20s), the more sorrow and shame I feel. As a female, I was spared the experience, but I know men who still are plagued by PTSD all these years later. Rmoney and his five strapping sons who "served their country" by doing the Mormon mission thing should be required to watch this, over and over and over until it finally sinks into their tiny little brains what is the true meaning of service. I won't hold my breath, of course.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)savalez
(3,517 posts)Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)...souffles and undercooked quiches.
MY GOD WHEN WILL THIS MADNESS END???
to origional poster, thanks for your difficult service.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)The 1000 yard stare... the tortured look... the $500 haircut.
?1350579102
onecent
(6,096 posts)He should have gone to John Edwards hairdresser.....ROFL
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)too much deprivation??
I'm thinking some nice soap, toothpaste, shampoo, body wash........and some candy bars or homemade cookies.
toby jo
(1,269 posts)2 morms come to the door, he turns to the dog, says, whaddya think, Satan, should we let em in?
They split. Dog's real name is Gracie. No shit.
ellisonz
(27,709 posts)pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)Funny. But I had to do a double-take, as my first thought from the way it was put was jungle rot...
GoCubsGo
(32,061 posts)I was thinking, "All these years, and the poor guy is still suffering from some exotic rot." LOL!
Bigmack
(8,020 posts)Mary had a little lamb,
It's fleece was black as mud,
Mary didn't know it, but
Her lamb had the galloping crud.
LisaL
(44,962 posts)grantcart
(53,061 posts)has the most astonished look.
They would have preferred Satan.
They write down the address and I never get another one.
Until I move.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)because they only look confused when they leave and a couple of months later heres a new set.
amborin
(16,631 posts)pwb
(11,205 posts)I knew that was bullshit from the start. Just another easy vote getter for the pukes, in reality just another shallow issue.
Response to pwb (Original post)
Post removed
txwhitedove
(3,922 posts)Ghost in the Machine
(14,912 posts)with MY toy??
Any more pithy responses to gun owners?? It's "democrats" like YOU who are the reason we can't win in the Southern states and/or rural areas. Keep doing the great job of putting the "gun grabbers" image in their heads. We work our asses off trying to register Democratic voters, reassuring them that no one wants to take their guns away... and they just point to posts like yours for examples.
txwhitedove
(3,922 posts)sarcasm thingy, but most responses here were in fun. Instead you call my response pithy, insult me as Democrat and insult me as a Southerner. I don't usually EVER get into the gun discussion. This was a freekin joke, get it? You must not have seen the images, responses, jokes after Debate 2 and Romney's response to the question about gun control/AK-47's. Take away joke from his response was: Guns don't kill people, single mothers do.
Ghost in the Machine
(14,912 posts)Maybe it's time to get my sarcasm meter recalibrated. I've seen so many anti gun posts here that *aren't* sarcasm that it's hard to tell. many of those posts seem to be from people obsessed with the penises of gun owners, and here yours looked like an attack on another member, but instead of mentioning his penis, you brought his mother into it. I'm sitting here thinking "how low would this poster (you) feel if you found out the person you replied to had just buried his mother today, yesterday, last week, or was going to be doing it tomorrow. My intent was to make you think about what you say to others.
That being said, I am a Southerner too, and we suffer much abuse on this board.... enough that I don't find *ANY* of it funny. I'll take you at your word that it was sarcasm, and offer my most humble apology.
I work every day, fighting bigotry, racism and ignorance in my very deep red, deep South area. I can only hope that you are doing the same in your area, and that we can have some sort of positive effect on even just a small percentage of the ignorant and uninformed that we try to reach out to.
Peace,
Ghost
txwhitedove
(3,922 posts)feelings of others. The OP was tongue-in-cheek while making a point. PDTurks mention of an AK-47 seemed in the same vein since it was the gun Romney was asked about, so I was shocked to see PDTs post hidden. As for the Southern heritage, it is fierce, but I dont have a middle name, have always softly rebuked those who tell racial jokes, have been laughed at for asking people not to talk ugly about gays, and have always been a Democrat. Now I am mocked by my own children for being so outspoken in the last few years about Bush and now Romney. There has to be one place, one group I can freely communicate with and I choose DU.
Ghost in the Machine
(14,912 posts)I will argue to my death if I think/know that I am in the right, but on that same token, I will freely admit when I am wrong, make no excuses for it, or try to back-peddle my way out. If I'm wrong, and proven wrong, I take my lumps and keep moving forward. I also try to learn a lesson from that experience, so I don't repeat the same mistake.
Thank you for accepting my apology, and being very gracious/classy in doing so. We should all strive to get along, and support each other here, as we never know what another member may be going through in their personal lives at any given moment. it's the whole "walk a mile in *my* moccasins" thing. We already have a common enemy to focus on anyways, that being the Repugnant Party.
One funny tidbit: My oldest daughter doesn't have a middle name, either!
I hope all is well with you and yours...
Peace within, Peace between, Peace among
Ghost
aletier_v
(1,773 posts)aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)(Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol).
Vattel
(9,289 posts)pwb
(11,205 posts)Point being I did what my country asked of me, my country never asked me to go overseas and preach a cult religion. I think what i did was better, we just have to disagree on this. I am proud I served regardless, Romney probably feels proud he didn't.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)The point we all agree on is that even though Romney aggressively supported the war, he was too cowardly to fight in it. That deserves criticism. I was too young to even have a choice about whether to fight in Vietnam, and that sort of decision is not one I would want any 18-yr-old to have to make. I do think that the better decision was not to fight, and I am proud of some of my relatives that refused to do so.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)stlsaxman
(9,236 posts)most likely a CO would go to Canada or jail. I know I almost did but was spared by the end of the war.
Ineeda
(3,626 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)Cha
(295,929 posts)got a deferment so he could go to France.
Others could go get killed but not him.
malaise
(267,847 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,112 posts)"Missionarying in France with binders full of women is hell!"
Thanks for the thread, pwb.
glinda
(14,807 posts)southernyankeebelle
(11,304 posts)it was a beautiful warm sunny day and it was so funny to see these 2 young men riding bikes and stopping by our apartment. Here they were hot as hell and they were dress up. I looked at them and they smiled at me and I said hello and were surprised to see me there in that neighborhood. I was just as surprised. Of course they were pushing their religion and I said to them you better forget it here. You will not be welcomed. They left and I said goodby. That was it. They are everywhere. I've seen them in Germany also.
santamargarita
(3,170 posts)the most racists, woman hating person I ever met.
IndyJones
(1,068 posts)No Vested Interest
(5,157 posts)I don't know the details, but Reid did not grow up as a Mormon.
Maybe he has benefited from not having had the Mormon culture all his life.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)upi402
(16,854 posts)They're friendly and generally good fellows. Then I tell them where I'm at when they try to probe. I've eaten dinner with other Elders a couple times. As long as you talk about motocross or something, they are wonderful folks.
They don't come back after I peel my Scooby Do mask off, usually.
LOL
Not once have they dared to express racism to me. Maybe because they knew better...
kath
(10,565 posts)(as a DUer dubbed it):
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021523874
GentryDixon
(2,944 posts)I actually had the Bishop of a town I was living in 40 years ago come to my door. He introduced himself and told me he liked to keep track what people were doing in his ward. I told him it was none of his business what I was doing and never come to my door again.
The first time they came to my house where I now live I asked them in for a beer. They were aghast. I then told them to go away and not come back. I am now on the "hopeless list" I suppose.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,283 posts)And of course they throw away the c-rat smokes.
Wait, they can't even have warm beer, right? Now THAT is a sacrifice!
Tribalceltic
(1,000 posts)and waste as much time of theirs as I possibly can before I inform them that was my intention, oh and please feel free to bother my neighbor down the street as he usually answers the door with a shotgun ( he doesn't but he's a nice old vet that doesn't need to be bothered. I also try to get as much literature as I can, because it usually burns so pretty in the fire pit.
I may be going to hell for this but it's worth it.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)pwb
(11,205 posts)Was diagnosed by the V.A. in 1997. Stayed away as long as I could. I was ok until we started fighting all these wars. Brought it all back.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)SleeplessinSoCal
(8,998 posts)xxqqqzme
(14,887 posts)I was walking to the bus stop last week and recognized the bicycled pair, a block away, coming my way. I picked up my pace and waved them off with 'Don't want to miss my bus.'
GoCubsGo
(32,061 posts)Now that it's cooling off, they're wearing their winter camo...errrrr...suit jackets.
lapfog_1
(29,166 posts)er, ride their bicycles up the next street...
they will frag the lieutenant.
GoCubsGo
(32,061 posts)Granted, in my town, it's more likely to get hit by some putz driving while talking on a cell phone.
Maximumnegro
(1,134 posts)RagAss
(13,832 posts)Quixote1818
(28,904 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)They're devout Catholics.
They converted about 70% of the Mormons who came in to talk with them.
After such horrific losses, the missionaries don't come to their house anymore.
Permanut
(5,439 posts)I just ask them to come in and see my Amway stuff. Same with the Jehovah's Witlesses.
I was going to say - they don't even walk anymore, they ride bicycles. Next, we'll see them on electric scooters... or something.
It definitely shows the disconnect of the Romneys that any of them think that this type of "serving" is anything like putting your life on the line for your country. As far as I can tell, the Mormons around here look like they live a pretty cush life. They don't come to my door anymore, or try to stop me when I'm out working in my yard. They always offered to help me with my yard - honestly, like mowing it and weeding and even building a fence once. Although I could use the free labor as a single gal who owns her own home, I will not be subjected to listening to their spiel about gawd. I simply told them that I'm an Atheist, and they looked adequately horrified - and then I literally turned my back on them. They tried to talk to my back for about 10 minutes - and I did what I call "active ignoring"... literally pretended that they weren't there and that I couldn't hear them at all. They eventually gave up and walked away. Was it rude? Yep. But seriously, if I want gawd, I know how to find a freakin' church - they are on every damn corner. It's insulting that they think that I can't find my own way to faith if I seek it.
aletier_v
(1,773 posts)Otherwise called "shunning" in the Mormon world.
Don't worry about being rude, they're quite familiar with that concept.
Barbara2423
(459 posts)Her boys are privileged ours get shot at while in the jungle or desert. When I heard her say that I was disgusted. Romney should lose just by that statement alone.
jaysunb
(11,856 posts)from Nam...they used to come by a couple times a month and sit and chat. They were very curious about my experiences in the war, and I was very curious about their anti black religious beliefs.
War, so they felt, was wrong, but both knew friends back in Utah that were serving or about to go. With so many conscientious objectors around in those days, I actually appreciated their sincere reasons for choosing a religious mission as opposed the military.
Of, course, they were also very apologetic about the exclusion of Blacks from their priesthood and felt Muhammad Ali had gotten a bad deal for the very same reason they were not required to serve.
Interesting times.....
closeupready
(29,503 posts)If you failed to listen to them?
I was an Army Medic in the 'Nam, '69, and I don't recall seeing any clean-shaven Mormon Missionaries running around. Maybe I got drafted into the wrong unit.
pwb
(11,205 posts)I don't know any Mormons who served in Nam. Took a long walk in my local veterans cemetery and did not see one mormon symbol on any graves. Ann Romney thinks her sons are are equals when it came to serving. What a sick woman. Welcome.
MyTwoSense
(46 posts)...but nearly six hundred lost their life in Viet Nam.
http://www.militaryfactory.com/vietnam/casualties.asp#10
pwb
(11,205 posts)No wonder I did not see any Mormon graves. National cemetery's are huge and according to your link that would average 4 per cemetery. .008% of total causalities in Nam. One thing for sure is 100% of the Romney family never served. Maybe you could provide a link to how many avoided service during the war as missionaries?. All religions believe tho shalt not kill. Most do not provide a way to avoid service like Mormons.
God bless the Mormons who died in Nam, God Dam the ones who avoided service and hid behind their religion. You know who I mean?.
I never said that no Mormons died in war, I said I did not see any in my walk through the cemetery.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)Battalions back in '68.
Rumor has it that there was a severe caviar shortage, and the best vintage year wines from Domaine de la Romanée-Conti had all been bought up for use as corporate bonuses to be given to defense, oil, and finance industry executives for their part in maintaining the Vietnam war effort.
Such incredible hardship. What an absolute bohemian horror!
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)LDS missionaries have to face something far more treacherous--pornography.
Canuckistanian
(42,290 posts)...shit, I'm still only in Salt Lake City.....
rppper
(2,952 posts)a no shit green beret....he did two tours, '64 and '65......he didn't talk a lot about his time there, but the stories i did hear from him were horrific in their own right. at some point he was assigned a german shepard to sniff out the VC soldiers. while on a patrol his dog was shot right in front of him. my father picked up this 150lbs dog and fireman carried it some 3 miles back to base. the dog was dead the moment it was hit, so i asked my dad why he risked his life for this dog...i was about 10 or 11 when he told me this story....his response? "i didn't want my dog to be dinner for a platoon of those zipper heads...."
although he was twice a bronze star recipient, along with a chestful of other medals, dad came out of vietnam with no physical injury, but sometimes he had "the look"....he was at the house, but he was far far away...i learned very quickly to tap dad on his toes to wake him up in the morning. dad is a huge fan of john wayne, but to this day can not bring himself to watch "the green berets"...."propaganda" and "garbage" are his two terms for that movie....
my niece did 3 tours in iraq....during the the last one she watched a friend in the humvee in front of her get vaporized by an IED...she hasn't been the same in the past 6 years...my experiences on submarines pales to their service, at least IMHO...we had beds, 3 hot prepared meals, movies....they had none of thee above...thanks again for the job you did.
coldwaterintheface
(137 posts)and if the ice cream machine went down, there would be hell to pay.
depending on what you did on the boats, you should be thankful, that you did not have to launch. I was SWS on boomers and you did not want us launching. I have a number of SF/SEAL friends and not a single one wanted to be responsible for annihilating millions of people.
You service was/is far more risky then getting it by an IED. They always have the chance to get to safety, where were you going if there was a fire on board, flooding in engineering and loss of depth control all at the same time?
Our experience is very different from everyone else in the military
Hunt for Red October summed it up nicely
..
....A war with no battles....No monuments.....Only casualties.
rppper
(2,952 posts)All of the launches I ever did on a boomer were end of the world drills, or torpex's and sinkex's on the fast boats......and yes there would definatly be high pitched squeals if the ice cream machine got tagged out! Lol
Two of my boats were set up for spec ops though....we did some real time lock in/lock outs and enough covert missions to make 3/4 of the posters here very upset, but we always saw it in terms of when we would get relieved and head down for chow and bunks! It was an everyday event on any given underway....I'm sure as an sws you know I'm preaching to the choir though...
My boats were SSBN 645, SSN 676, SSN 624, AS-31 and SSN 770....
coldwaterintheface
(137 posts)but that is OK that is the way it was designed mainly to keep the public in the dark as to what really was going on.
But the so-called cold war did make things interesting that is for sure.
My boat was SSBN 617 out of Holy Loch.
Nothing like hearing an Alpha to get your attention knowing that this shit is real!
or having the head valve fail open and turing the fan into a pump. Yes it will still work and bring in a whole bunch of water out the fan room, down the ladder by FC right into the crews lounge above the battery...yup fun times. You lose depth control really fast, like scarry fast.
rppper
(2,952 posts)had that same thing happen on 624! (almost over the same spot where the scorpion is lying no less)...filled the MCLL bildge all the way to the deck plates...all due to the CO wanting to run the DG at least once every week....this time it was in a sea state 5! the navet handling the head valve actually went to mast because he shut down the air actuator to the head valve without permission....saved the ship and lost 200x2...go figure...the co scrubbed the QM's log as well...made him rewrite the whole incedent before we pulled into LaMadalena and had a meeting with all of the involved parties to tell them EXACTLY what to say to the NIS people...he was a real piece of work! had the water hit the LP blower we would have had to ride back to charleston surfaced...it was a one of a kind blower that would have required a hull cut to take out....
after they shut holy loch down all of the EM club stuff went to the EM club in LaMadalena...the USFL posters included! lol
during 2 out of 3 patrols i did out of the loch we were met by soviet destroyers and agi's....sovremeny and kashin destroyers and vishna trawlers...nasty looking ships but they were pitiful sonar wise....not good when a 35 y/o boomer can dive and immediatly evade you....we would have definatly whooped their asses if war would have ever happened....
Skittles
(152,967 posts)Romney likes to talk tough on the campaign trail, says George Ryan of Windsor Terrace. But I sure didnt run into him on the Ho Chi Minh trail. While I was fighting with the G-Battalion of the 65th Infantry in places like Khe San and Con Thien and Hue during the Tet Offensive, Romney was in Paris eating croissants.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Zambero
(8,954 posts)Hello there boys, I'm the ghost of '77!
1977 was the last year in which Mormons continued to officially ascribe to the belief that being black meant being a sinful decendant of Adam who was cursed by God for past iniquities. A black person could still become a church member (under those circumstances vritually none chose to do so) but given "cursed" status could never advance in the LDS hierarchy. Like polygamy before it, the church disavowed this policy in 1978 not so much to it's own devices but to external pressure.
WCGreen
(45,558 posts)Lefergus70
(102 posts)barnabas63
(1,214 posts)lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)HomerRamone
(1,112 posts)Javaman
(62,444 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)and should be a crime.