just a thought - maybe dems should take what they can get and run with it...

[msongs]

maybe get manchin up to 2 trillion by giving him a few treasures we dont want to give up and pass the bills and live to fight another day. but then there's...sinema the unknown. finding hard to believe she would commit political suicide by tanking the whole thing

[UTUSN]

1. And a good thought it is!

[msongs]

2. and if they do, dems can thro a party and celebrate a big win nt

[TreasonousBastard]

3. Do you think they haven't thought this way already?

[Funtatlaguy]

4. This win is important but not as important as Voting Rights.

That one is for everything we care about.
Democracy hangs on the Dems all agreeing to a filibuster carve out.

[Haggard Celine]

5. Sinema has already committed political suicide.

She's deeply unpopular back in Arizona, according to polls I've seen lately. I think her approval is like 17%. She couldn't even win a Democratic primary right now, so she has nothing to lose by doing the bidding of her wealthy donors.

[Walleye]

8. She could easily turn her popularity around and become a big hero with one vote

[Raven123]

6. It's clear the Dems have no strategy, sadly

Biden earky said both Bills would move forward in tandem.
The separation of the Bills essentially separated the progressive agenda from the Manchin agenda
The release of the Manchin memo to Shumer has engendered more distrust within the progressives.


Whre is the coherence?

[betsuni]

7. What?

[The Magistrate]

9. It's Going To Come Down To That, Ma'am

At this point what is important is making certain people know this is not 'democrats getting nothing done' but rather a handful of people who are stopping progress, who are denying people what they want done. Because the only cure for this is more Democrats in office, Democrats in sufficient number critters like Manchin and Synema can go whistle for all the harm they can do. If people on the left do not make this distinction, the country, not just the Party, will be in big trouble.

[Patton French]

10. Yes, and even a smaller reconciliation bill will be a big win.

It's just a matter of how big it will be.

[Tom Rinaldo]

11. That is exactly what is happening

But if those who want to see more than 15% of the President's agenda melt and run away the first time a maverick centrist Democrat says Boo! to them, 15% of Biden's agenda will be all that we can get. One obstructionist in the Senate Democratic Caucus, or 4 obstructionists in the House Democratic Caucus can sink the entire Build Back Better Act at any time. But all of the likely suspects for that behavior are invested in passing the Infrastructure Bill and do not want it to go down. Nor do their corporate backers..

You have not seen a single self described progressive in Congress demand that the Build Back Better Bill be passed in it's current 3.5 Trillion dollar form or else they will kill the Infrastructure Bill. What is happening as we speak is hard negotiations that will determine "exactly what Democrats can get." The so called fight now isn't about a price tag, it is about a agreement binding on all Democrats in Congress to vote for the Build Back Better Act period, and to do so in some form that is at least recognizable as the President's actual agenda. The way that is accomplished is to hold back passage of the Infrastructure Bill until that agreement is reached.

The final price tag will look nothing like 3.5 Trillion, but had progressives in Congress not shown that they have a spine, it is dubious that even a 1.5 Trillion dollar version of the Build Better Act with anything remotely like its current contours would ever reach Biden's desk. The centrists have to commit in public to what they will support, not just an expenditure target but also specific program content of the legislation that they will not object to to the point of actually withholding their votes.

[Vinca]

12. I've been wondering all along why Democrats don't take a more strategic tact when trying to get

legislation passed. When you say "3.5 trillion" to voters and there's so much in the bill you can't explain it, you get mired in complaints about spending and open the door for the crazy socialism baloney. Why don't they break it down into smaller chunks? Put all the Medicare stuff in one bill for instance and promote it where seniors will see it until they're ready to tar and feather any politician who votes against it. If Republicans (or Manchin/Sinema) decide to vote against eyeglasses and dental care for seniors, it goes into the next political ad and gets played over and over and over and over and over. Progressives will never get everything they want and, likewise, moderates will never get everything they want unless Democrats hold super majorities in both houses of Congress. At this point, all they're doing is giving the right ammunition to have them voted out of office. And Republicans are just sitting back watching the Democrats self destruct.

[samnsara]

13. i think ks is betting on the other side..

..theres so much anger toward her from AZ you would think they could get a recall petition going.

[lagomorph777]

14. Put earmarks in there for SineManchin's donors.

For example, pay coal companies to build wind farms on their flattened mountain tops.

Buy tons of pharmaceuticals for low income people, and / or foreign aid.

[Johnny2X2X]

15. That's what is currently going on

Manchin and Sinema are playing ball, just not willing to go close to $3.5T. If you can get them to $2T, you take the deal and work on the rest for 2022. You can still get some amazing things in a $2T deal.