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(46,426 posts)Therein lies the problem.
wnylib
(21,303 posts)But we outnumber them, so if we can persuade enough people, we can change who represents us in government.
Irish_Dem
(46,426 posts)notinkansas
(1,096 posts)One would think that the powers that be would eventually be embarrassed about constantly funneling everything to the top 1%. That is - if they had a conscience. Alas...
Autumn
(44,972 posts)fuck over the people who voted for them. Instead they get elected again and again.
Uncle Joe
(58,268 posts)I would agree with you pretty much without exception.
However I believe we are facing some highly unique circumstances in our nation today which is creating some dynamics that could make this an exception to the rule.
OldBaldy1701E
(5,079 posts)When this pandemic hit hard, I was decidedly optimistic in that, once I saw what was happening, I was pretty sure there would have to be changes in our societal model, hopefully into a more equitable and fair-minded society. Yeah, right. All I have heard since this happened is the voice of capitalism demanding to 'go back to how things were'. And, they have convinced everyone that this is what has to happen. So now, any thoughts of progress have been shut down again. (Well the wealth of the top percentile will 'progress', but for the rest of us it is back to the grind of slowly dying for a tiny group of people who could care less.) I think I am now at the point where I am done even daydreaming about such things. The green monster has won.
Farmer-Rick
(10,134 posts)This +10000:
"All I have heard since this happened is the voice of capitalism demanding to 'go back to how things were'. And, they have convinced everyone that this is what has to happen."
We are going onto over a million deaths from Covid-19 and all we hear is open schools, go back to work, go back to shopping, die for what exactly? Risk your life so you can make barely enough to survive. All the while those 300 people, in the US who were born with leftover capital from a dead relative, are making more, and more, and more, and more wealth. They rule us through their corporations, their insurance companies, their monopolies, their lobbyists, their campaign contributions, and now their laws.
And as you say above, all thought of progress has been shut down. Something is going to break here and it won't be the peasants.
Uncle Joe
(58,268 posts)or wouldn't have a USS Enterprise avatar.
OldBaldy1701E
(5,079 posts)That we had a third world war in that timeline. I wonder what caused it?
Uncle Joe
(58,268 posts)I stand corrected.
OldBaldy1701E
(5,079 posts)I chose both the nick and the image to be inspired. I would have made a pitiful Starfleet member myself. I guess it was my attempt to try and be a better version of myself. Guess that didn't work either.
Srkdqltr
(6,224 posts)multigraincracker
(32,632 posts)$200 a month for internet/cable and another $200 a month for cell service. Like more than double what those damn Socialists pay. But dont tell that to cheap labor Americans.
brooklynite
(94,300 posts)Certainly not the capitalist countries in Europe.
albacore
(2,398 posts)..for regular people is automatically "socialist".
Since they don't know what any of the "-isms" are, "socialism" is merely the current word that triggers their massive download in their Depends.
Response to multigraincracker (Reply #5)
brooklynite This message was self-deleted by its author.
brooklynite
(94,300 posts)Hell need to convince some people who dont already agree with him.
bluewater
(5,376 posts)As older, more conservative voters pass away they are replaced by a younger generation that are more willing to change the status quo.
Also, older people are more likely to actually get out and vote, so as people who agree with Senator Sanders get older themselves, they will become more reliable voters and then, perhaps, things will change.
ret5hd
(20,480 posts)using media, social and otherwise, to spread the ideas and concepts MIGHT further his goals.
Are you suggesting he shut up and stay in the background till he has convinced enough people to agree with him?
Any thoughts on how that is supposed to work???
bluewater
(5,376 posts)Then saying you were always for expanding the social contract once change actually happens seems to be how things ACTUALLY work.
ret5hd
(20,480 posts)I might despise them, I might want to piss on their graves. But at least they have enough "whatever" to wave the flag they are fighting for.
BUT, those that claim to be on the same side, claim to hold the same ideals, etc...and yet every idea forward is met with "that'll never work", "that's too much", "good luck with THAT"...all while extolling ideas that amount to desalinating the ocean one teaspoon at a time,
"slow down there young fella, slow down"...
they hold a special place...a place maybe similar to the place Benedict Arnold is held...
Just rambling. Apropos of nothing, I guess.
brooklynite
(94,300 posts)...and members were supposed to try to convince each other to support their policies. Especially if they (and their supporters) professed to be "leaders".
From the Tweet in question, I saw nothing that was going to convince someone with a different opinion, and nothing that told people who already agreed what to do to convince others.
ret5hd
(20,480 posts)fully articulated action plans, preferably with bullet points and committee assignments.
What is the minimum number of tweets that you would consider as having adequately covered a subject such as this?
53/3237 and upon such assignments the assignees shall meet weekly, report the progress of items 67 thru 93 as listed above, and compile a report to my office regarding necessary future action, focusing on any such actions deemed urgent.
54/3237 etc etc etc
brooklynite
(94,300 posts)Personally, I've never been a fan of speeches (given, written or Tweeted) who's sole value seems to be making supporters feel good.
ret5hd
(20,480 posts)brooklynite
(94,300 posts)I've learned that emotion isn't a good basis for making political decisions, so I don't look for people to tell me what I want to hear, I look for people to tell me how they're going to achieve the things I want.
ret5hd
(20,480 posts)using short-form communication to convey all the things we do wrong.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)RANDYWILDMAN
(2,663 posts)The republicans have been ignoring most Americans since they tricked tons of people into voting for Reagan and they have been running a freaking smoke show ever since with cover from ALL the media.
virgdem
(2,124 posts)llashram
(6,265 posts)money is god in this world, the US especially. Corporations will be the PTB forever and ever...
PatrickforB
(14,557 posts)It is a matter of supply and demand.
Here in that capitalist utopia that is America, we celebrate shareholder profits over human life. Because of our shareholder primacy model, the greatest consumer market in human history, us, is a really, really expensive place to live. We get nickel and dimed to death, and the middle class is nearly extinct. Most Americans are a paycheck away from not being able to pay the bills, and the average American cannot deal with a $400 unplanned expenditure.
Because of this, we demand cheap, high quality goods, which has made a permanent low-paid, no benefits, no predictable hours workforce a necessity. But these darned Democrats keep raising the minimum wage!
Now, as businesses are facing chronic labor shortages because people are no longer willing to work really hard in bad conditions, with unpredictable hours, low pay and no benefits, they are accelerating capital expenditures to keep productivity high with fewer people on the payroll.
What this means is that American corporations, and small businesses, routinely outsource business functions overseas where wages are much cheaper. This way, they can continue keeping labor costs down while profits stay high. Right now, 'Murika outsources around 300,000 jobs a year, and while this has created jobs overseas, wages are so low in Asia, Eastern Europe, and Central/South America, that many of the workers cannot afford the goods they produce, or the services they support.
The real issue here, though, is automation and artificial intelligence. It has been automation that has allowed many of these jobs to be offshored. Oh, we hear about factories packing up, and moving the whole shebang to Mexico or the like, and NAFTA did cost us around 800,000 jobs by some estimates. But it is automation and artificial intelligence that allows the outsourcing of jobs like software development, customer support, digital marketing, accounting and other business support functions.
As workers lose livelihoods to automation, there will be fewer jobs - if a company spends capital to automate operations and lays off ten people as a result, they will only need perhaps 2 or 3 workers to manage the automated operation. We see this with today's modern cotton farming, which is now a one person operation using high-tech agri methods instead of human labor.
It is these workers who BUY THE STUFF that generates the profits for shareholders!
See the problem? It is ultimately a house of cards. If corporations are able to automate fully so most of the workers are no longer necessary, how will demand for goods and services remain high enough to keep the companies afloat?
It is at this point that, over massive, massive resistance from conservatives and so-called 'moderates', we will have to rethink how we organize and operate our economy. Capitalism is a house of cards that holds the seeds of its own destruction because unlimited growth is a philosophy more akin to cancer cells that healthy human culture.
We could, actually write a book about this, because ultimately what will have to 'go' is stratospheric profits, and big multinationals like the 55 major corporations that did not pay any federal income tax last year, can afford this, but small businesses not so much, and certainly not franchises.
But it is breaking down. You can see it. The consumer supply chain is not 'healing' like the experts said it would. The anti-vaxxers have seen to that. Did you know there are sailors in merchant marines who HAVE NOT BEEN ASHORE AT ALL IN TWO YEARS? In Chicago, they have severe truck driver shortages and cannot find barge pilots to carry cargo downriver. For the barges, they are offering thousands of dollars as sign-on bonuses, and a forty-day-on, forty-day-off schedule, and they cannot find enough people who want to do that. Same with OTR trucking.
Instead 9 in 10 global workers now, after being home for months during the pandemic, have discovered a) they don't really need as much consumer stuff, b) they now insist on better wages, and better benefits, such as healthcare and defined benefit pensions, and c) they would like more say in when and where they work.
We are literally watching the death-throes of late stage capitalism and the birth of another, hopefully more humane system, my friend. Call me a utopian - God knows many people have - but what would it be like if we reorganized our society around human need, and created a system where everyone had enough. Think of it! Gone would be the days when 25,000 people a day starve to death on this planet. Gone would be wage slavery and debt slavery. Gone would be...well, you can fill in the blank.
Maybe time for us to grow up and begin thinking and planning as a species.
llashram
(6,265 posts)has always been a fanciful thought in my mind. Nothing wrong with your vision(s) as I read here. I want Americans of all races, cultures, genders and creeds to be united just once before I pass this existence. And no war needed for that to happen. Utopian society as envisioned by you is appreciated by me who continually fights himself to maintain some positivity as you have written-penned here.
As to filling in the blank, gone would be the massive disunity, inequality and hate.
Keep on pushing my friend we need many more like you. Many people will read your visions of a better world and who knows maybe one day...
czarjak
(11,246 posts)progressoid
(49,929 posts)I've been assured that Bernie only criticizes Democrats!!
k/r
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)betsuni
(25,367 posts)That's why the change.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Considering all that he's said before, it's difficult for me to believe the sincerity of this overnight change.
betsuni
(25,367 posts)It's a big change. I wonder why supporters don't know this. Don't they actually listen to him? It's odd!
Joinfortmill
(14,378 posts)Beastly Boy
(9,228 posts)Are highly salaried engineers or IT managers "working class"? Are financial advisors and lawyers? Are CEOs? They all work for a living.
What about the homeless? People surviving off the social safety net, as inadequate as it is? Seniors? The vast majority of them are certainly not "working class", are they?
Who exactly are the people the government is supposed to deliver to, and who are not? And who manages the deliverables? The only reference Bernie gives is "millionaires and billionaires" That would be about 5% of the population tops. Can he be more specific about the other 95%? Depending on how "working class" is defined, I may be 100% behind this sentiment or 100% against it.
Jon King
(1,910 posts)He said billionaires and corporations. Obviously he is not talking about high salaried engineers and IT managers. Many may have net worths in the millions.
He is talking about the richest of the rich and the large corporations. Biden and Bernie have clearly said that they would not touch any family making under $400000/year.
Beastly Boy
(9,228 posts)Is it the working class or people making less than $400k? Does it matter if people within the 400K margin are working class or non-working class, and if it does, what is the distinction as far as far as the government delivering for them? If Bernie is not talking about the well to do engineers and IT managers making over 400K, what are the government's obligation to deliver to them as working class? What are "large corporations" as opposed to "small corporations" with respect to government delivering to them? None at all, or do small corporations fit under his definition of the "working class"? Will net income of $400K make them such? If the definition of the billionaire class is net worth of $1 billion or more, what are the government's obligations to deliver to people like Trump whose net worth is likely to be negative? Finally, what are the rules that govern the processes of defining all of the above, who has the authority to clarify all the above definitions and on what grounds?
This is what I mean: Bernie's definitions of "working class" and "billionaire class" are too fuzzy and outdated, they don't bring any clarity to what he imagines the government's role to be as far as delivering. With so many important matters remaining unarticulated, the concept of a government delivering to someone so poorly defined remains pretty far out and hard to imagine indeed.
George II
(67,782 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)bucolic_frolic
(43,027 posts)because the whole system is built on competition and legal authority. That's why prices are so high relative to labor.
You think $15 wages will change the system? $20? $25? Think again. They just raise prices as they have always done in recessions and booms so as to maintain profits. Earn more, pay more.
The only time workers get a break relative to prices or inflation is during depression or with fierce competition. Then prices fall. Workers make progress - if they still have a job. The Great Recession was a great time to buy a house. Just like now is a lousy time from the perspective of price.
Rhiannon12866
(204,621 posts)ymetca
(1,182 posts)it's the "and not just corporations and the billionaire class" part I find annoying.
Just? How 'bout we "just" start PUNISHING the corporations and the billionaire class that are, quite literally, killing us in mass numbers, day after day, every day?
How 'bout we "just" start putting them in jail?
Maybe "just" start with that?
Once again, if I stole a hundred dollars from the bank, but I only had to pay back $20 if I got caught, I WOULD NEVER STOP ROBBING BANKS!
Geez, Bernie... In order to achieve a more just society we first have to impose justice on those who lie, cheat, steal, and kill in that society. Quit sugar-coating it, like this is some kind of "best practices" pursuit. Oy vey!
It's EAT THE RICH or die tryin'. Don't you get that? What happened to you, man?
Until I see LIQUIDATION GOING OUT OF BUSINESS signs on the likes of CitiGroup, and Chase, and Wells Fargo, and a WHOLE lot of other monstrosities of corporate graft, I'm gonna be a little bit wary of anything coming out of Congress these days.
Until then, I'm going to act just like rich people do, and say, "Where's all that money you stole from me, asshole?" Get it? We're PISSED out here!
Here endeth the rant. Whew! That felt.. just.
Aussie105
(5,315 posts)politicians aren't allowed to accept gifts of any sort from any other person or entity, for any reason.
That includes gifts like bottles of wine from a visiting dignitary.
After all, it may constitute bribery - you know, that late night phone call . . . "We donated $X million to your campaign to get you elected. Now it's time to earn your pay! This is how we want you to vote on (topic)"
Time you guys in America stopped the 'campaign fund donations', aka bribery, post haste!
George II
(67,782 posts)...like in-state athletic teams to give their representatives or senators things like jerseys or autographed baseballs, etc.
However, they are NOT permitted to accept contributions of any "$X amount", not even a dime. Any campaign fund donations are illegal.
Roisin Ni Fiachra
(2,574 posts)We either find a way to vote Republicans and conservative Democrats out of Congress and replace them with progressive Democrats, or democracy in the United States will die, and fascist authoritarianism will take its place.
When you have *Democrats* in the Senate playing the long game specifically to be there in order to prevent building a democratic government that delivers for working class folks, it is impossible to build a government of, by, and for the People.
Shame on any Democrat who works with Trump, McConnell, and the Republican party to bring about fascism in the US. I don't need to name them because everyone already knows who they are, and all of them are Benedict Arnold.
Why is there even a Blue Dog Coalition in the House? The answer to this question is self-evident. Hint: in reality, it has nothing at all to do with fiscal responsibility.
Vinca
(50,236 posts)net worth of $35,000 to being a millionaire in such a short time? While there are a few decent individuals working for the people, way too many are only concerned with how often they wet their beaks and how much they wet them.
George II
(67,782 posts)....millionaire in any amount of time.
TeamProg
(6,018 posts)Champp
(2,114 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,228 posts)are probably completely baffled by a guy like Bernie Sanders who doesn't spend every minute of every day trying to steal everything he can get his hands on like they do.
kpete
(71,957 posts)Bernie is EXACTLY right on this.
peace to you and yours,
kp
peace to you and yours as well.