General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)He lives on the thing when in town, so where could you get waterfont house in DC for that price?
According to some sources, he actually paid around 200G for the thing in what may have been a distress sale. Where could you get a house for that?
I spent 15 years insuring yachts, among other marine risks, and valuing 60' boats is tricky. Much trickier than RE valuations.
bottomofthehill
(8,261 posts)He is living in the cheap. Even with the dock fees.
bluewater
(5,376 posts)Which the insurance company at least agreed should be its actual value.
The $200,000 price tag was because he purchased it at some sort of foreclosure sale.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)for that?
bluewater
(5,376 posts)lol
And seriously, I know so many of the Senators are rich, and I have no problem with that in any way. But right now only two Democratic Senators are saying that we should cut down President Biden's 3.5T Build Back Better Act, Manchin and Sinema. If you know of anyone else, please let me know and I will add them to my list.
bottomofthehill
(8,261 posts)He paid roughly $220,000 for the boat, he values it on his financial disclosure for between $100,000 and $250,000. He insures it at $700,000. Now I dont talk to the Senator, he is not my friend or client, nor anyone I have a relationship so I am at the assumption part here but if he is insuring replacement value, I would bet that it would cost him close to that to replace the boat.
The South West marina is one of the most close efficient places to live in DC although the slip space is getting more expensive at the condo and co-op prices have gone insane in that part of town since the redevelopment of the waterfront.
bluewater
(5,376 posts)I mean his houseboat, which he insures for $700,000, is registered in West Virginia, not Washington DC or Maryland or Virginia.
For four days, protesters from West Virginia rallied by kayaks and other boats in front of Sen. Joe Manchin's houseboat to demand he support the budget reconciliation bill.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2021/10/01/joe-manchin-kayak-protest-orig-vf.cnn
Does that mean he doesn't pay local DC property taxes, personal property taxes or luxury taxes on his Houseboat/Yatcht/Frugal Residence? He does keep it year round in the DC area, correct?
Hey, come to think of it, does he list his boat as a legal residence?
So many questions....
bottomofthehill
(8,261 posts)He rents the slip, much like renting an apartment yet at a lower price. It is not his legal residence, Hes house in West Virginia is.
bluewater
(5,376 posts)Wow, that would certainly help make it a very "frugal" residence indeed.
But to be clear, you are saying that Manchin pays NO local DC or Virginia or Maryland taxes on his boat at all?
Not DC property taxes, not DC personal property taxes, nor DC luxury taxes on the houseboat/yatcht that he insures for $700,000?
By registering his expensive boat in West Virginia but living on it and keeping it in DC, isn't that a form of avoiding local DC taxes?
bottomofthehill
(8,261 posts)bluewater
(5,376 posts)He wants to cut President Biden's Build Back Better Act that expands the social safety net for struggling working families and yet he's avoiding paying DC taxes on his expensive, make that very expensive, boat?
That's galling. Shame on Manchin then.
Thank you for the discussion.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)So yeah... do you have an objective list of what e shouldn't mock?
Mr.Bill
(24,104 posts)but perhaps a disguised "donation"?
George II
(67,782 posts)bluewater
(5,376 posts)Just asking...
But all the fun and games aside, we all know that the vast majority of the Senators have very significant net worths compared to 90%, at least, of their fellow Americans. For example, in 2011 Joe Manchin was listed as having a net worth of over $7 million.
https://ballotpedia.org/Net_worth_of_United_States_Senators_and_Representatives
But honestly, with trusts, good accounting and other ways to transfer/hide/defer wealth, it's difficult to determine an affluent person's actual net worth. For example that listing has several Senators having net worths below $50K.
George II
(67,782 posts)bluewater
(5,376 posts)That's Machin's plane, he bought one new back then.
https://www.globalplanesearch.com/listing/aircraft-for-sale/Splash/Piper-PA-32-301T-Turbo-Saratoga/153366#:~:text=Featured%20Aircraft%20for%20Sale%20%20%20%20Aircraft,%24252%2C342%20%20%20View%202001%20Aircraft%20%3E%20
And some actually sell for a lot more if they have been updated and modernized. Here is one for sale priced $349,000:
https://plane-sale.com/en/search_aircraft/single_engine/piper/saratoga/80881
George II
(67,782 posts)...for $29,000 and it sold a few years ago for $650,000. Does that mean they bought a $650,000 house?
bluewater
(5,376 posts)Last edited Sun Oct 3, 2021, 12:50 PM - Edit history (5)
https://www.dollartimes.com/inflation/inflation.php?amount=30000&year=1981#:~:text=Calculate%20the%20Value%20of%20%2430%2C000%20in%201981.%20How,2021.%20Annual%20inflation%20over%20this%20period%20was%202.80%25.
I wonder what the maintenance costs, repair costs, and storage fees have all added up to also. Typical operating costs for this plane seem to be about $24,000 per year.
Owning and operating a private plane is simply an expensive proposition. Certainly it's a luxury.
Your parents made a good investment and their $29,000 1980 home purchase is now worth $650,00. Excellent. But, as an example, a person can't try to down-play how well off they are NOW by saying their home was only worth $29,000 in 1981 when they can sell it for $650,000 today. Yet that's exactly the argument you seem to be making.
Also, the main point is that Manchin purchased what was an expensive luxury item, his plane, back in 1981 for a price comparable to what less affluent people, like your parents, were paying for their home. That just can't be spun in any other way.
In any case, I will keep searching for the actual purchase price back in 1981.
George II
(67,782 posts)...he bought it in 1981, he first ran for office in 1982. He did NOT make his money in politics.
Jay Rockefeller was a multimillionaire many times over when he was elected Governor of West Virginia and then Senator. He may well have been the best West Virginia had in either office.
JFK was a multimillionaire before he ran for the House, Senate, and President.
bluewater
(5,376 posts)Tommymac
(7,263 posts)You want to get the Working person's vote, you better vote to make their lives better...or suffer the slings and arrows of much deserved criticism.
Franklin had a government paid for yacht too, but no one begrudged him that because he stood up for the Middle and Working class folk.
Sen Yacht is morally challenged to say the least. He is protecting his ethically challenged daughter (the apple does indeed fall close to the tree). If his political actions matched WHAT HIS CONSTITUENTS WANT and he didn't obfuscate when it comes to where his funding comes from, he would not be on the hot seat.
Same for Sen Spa, but she is more of a loose cannon that is only out for herself and her actions are proving this true every single day.
Mr.Bill
(24,104 posts)to dock that boat in a nice marina in DC with live aboard privleges and a parking space? I'm betting it costs more than a decent apartment in a nearby location.
George II
(67,782 posts)....in the Hudson River, and he lived on it for several years. He was well off but far from rich. The overall cost was much lower than renting an apartment.
Most marina or boat basins don't charge for living aboard privileges or parking spaces - that's all included along with utilities.
RiverbendsJoe
(81 posts)shouldnt be elected at all - and certainly not as Democrats.
malaise
(267,823 posts)malaise
(267,823 posts)calimary
(80,699 posts)Thats what Ill be calling them from now on.
Hes Senator Yacht.
Shes Senator Spa Weekend.
DONE!
monkeyman1
(5,109 posts)calimary
(80,699 posts)canetoad
(17,089 posts)Was pretty flash too but probably only 35 - 38'.
Anchored 8 miles south of the Capitol, the boat is Manchins home when he spends the night in Washington three nights or so a week during session. (I wasnt crazy on buying any real estate in Washington, not at all, Manchin says.) The houseboat and its predecessor, the Black Tie, serve as a kind of floating incubator of that tenderest of Washington flowers in the first decades of the 21st century: bipartisanship. Nobody knows anybody up here, Manchin, 66, says of the Senate. Its amazing. There just arent enough real relationships.
https://www.manchin.senate.gov/newsroom/in-the-news/joe-manchin-the-outlier-time-magazine
bluewater
(5,376 posts)Not quite a bass boat.