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JohnSJ

(91,937 posts)
Sat Oct 2, 2021, 08:52 PM Oct 2021

Manchin said he would not accept more than 1.5 trillion. Will that be acceptable to pass the bills?


12 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
Yes
1 (8%)
No
11 (92%)
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Manchin said he would not accept more than 1.5 trillion. Will that be acceptable to pass the bills? (Original Post) JohnSJ Oct 2021 OP
Does anyone know Sinema's "secret" number/requirments/deal killers? n/t PoliticAverse Oct 2021 #1
The Senator has spoken, do we have any choice or say in the matter? Irish_Dem Oct 2021 #2
Yes! Deuxcents Oct 2021 #11
If the bill is to pass then it will have to be jimfields33 Oct 2021 #3
1.5 tr or zero. Crumbs doesn't do shit for anyone. Budi Oct 2021 #4
Of course JohnSJ Oct 2021 #5
He's going to have to compromise qazplm135 Oct 2021 #6
True. With the flooding & fires I doubt there's a State budget that isn't in need of Budi Oct 2021 #10
"There has to be compromise & an end to the grandstanding." bluewater Oct 2021 #14
I don't like the fact that one or two senators... Salviati Oct 2021 #7
Manchin and Sinema should list the "wasteful" programs they want to cut from the 3.5T. Marcuse Oct 2021 #8
Sinema already has said (and thus flip flopping after taking shedloads of pharma and other Celerity Oct 2021 #18
The final bill will be more than $1.5T- it's not the total price that matters Fiendish Thingy Oct 2021 #9
That's why Biden told the Dem Congress meeting to think of the benefits & not the price tag Budi Oct 2021 #12
Its the floor, the amount from which they will negotiate up. Doremus Oct 2021 #13
if... myohmy2 Oct 2021 #15
Pass what we can now - get bigger majorities in 2022 or 2024. everyonematters Oct 2021 #16
Pass what we can now - get bigger majorities in 2022 or 2024. everyonematters Oct 2021 #17
We've pulled out of Afghanistan, so take it out of the "defense" budget Withywindle Oct 2021 #19
Something is better than nothing. Politics is the art of what's possible... NurseJackie Oct 2021 #20
Will Manchin and Sinema vote to pass the Bill even at 1.5 trillion? Roisin Ni Fiachra Oct 2021 #21
Can't someone dig up dirt on him Tribetime Oct 2021 #22
Even at $1.5 trillion, the total expenditures from Biden will be over $4.5 trillion LetMyPeopleVote Oct 2021 #23

jimfields33

(15,450 posts)
3. If the bill is to pass then it will have to be
Sat Oct 2, 2021, 08:54 PM
Oct 2021

Why not try for Romney or Alaska senator? Maybe they might…..

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
4. 1.5 tr or zero. Crumbs doesn't do shit for anyone.
Sat Oct 2, 2021, 08:54 PM
Oct 2021

I predict they'll meet in the middle when the vote comes up.
Biden's not done yet.

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
6. He's going to have to compromise
Sat Oct 2, 2021, 08:58 PM
Oct 2021

Just like everyone else. There's nothing magical about 1.5 just like there's nothing magical about 3.5.

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
10. True. With the flooding & fires I doubt there's a State budget that isn't in need of
Sat Oct 2, 2021, 09:25 PM
Oct 2021

...a big infrastructure assist right now.

AZ had unusual flooding this summer.
And the flooding of NY's subways & streets caused massive damage & need repair.

There has to be compromise & an end to the grandstanding.
States & cities watch this congressional media show & wonder wtf & just hold their breath.

It's gotten hellaciously pathetic.

Come to a compromise & move to the next order of Biden's agenda.

There's a lot of agenga waiting...waiting...



bluewater

(5,376 posts)
14. "There has to be compromise & an end to the grandstanding."
Sat Oct 2, 2021, 09:51 PM
Oct 2021

Spot on.

There will be a compromise and both bills will be passed.

Both Manchin and Sinema have come out of this week looking worse and having less sway than when they went in.

Progressives in the House have made their point, looked good defending the Build Back Better Act (aka the reconciliation bill), and now have to compromise and close the deal.

President Biden looked strong declaring that the infrastructure bill was on hold until the reconciliation bill was hashed out, but that both absolutely were going to be passed. Period.

In a few weeks both bills will be passed and we all can gear up for the real fight against the Republicans in the mid-terms.



Salviati

(6,002 posts)
7. I don't like the fact that one or two senators...
Sat Oct 2, 2021, 09:03 PM
Oct 2021

... can have such an outsized influence over a bill, especially when they're citing concerns that are not shared by their constituents. I'd like the negotiation to end on a number a bit closer to the original number, but I'd take it as a huge win if by putting up with his bullshit on this issue, they got him to commit to doing whatever it takes to get the voting rights bill passed, whether it's a specific carveout in the filibuster for voting rights, or a wholesale shift back to the talking filibuster. He needs to accept that there will be zero republican votes for any voting rights bill that is effective in any way whatsoever, and take appropriate action.

Celerity

(42,635 posts)
18. Sinema already has said (and thus flip flopping after taking shedloads of pharma and other
Sun Oct 3, 2021, 05:55 AM
Oct 2021

corporate cash) that she is against Medicare being able to negotiate drug prices ($700 billion in savings, a huge part of the funding for the bill) and against many of the tax increases on corporations and the wealthy ($2 trillion in revenue). She is trying to kneecap the whole bill from the revenue side. She is bought and paid for IMHO, as almost all her stances lately are 180 degree turns from positions she had just a year and longer ago, and she started flipping when large corporate cash flowed in from specific sectors. Minimum wage is another example, she flip flopped after industry groups held fundraisers for her.

She has a 17% approval rating amongst AZ Dems. She is toast more than likely. We are mad if we do not get a great primary opponent (maybe Ruben Gallego, as Hobbs is running for Gov) as if she someone wins the primary, she will be crushed in the general.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,361 posts)
9. The final bill will be more than $1.5T- it's not the total price that matters
Sat Oct 2, 2021, 09:19 PM
Oct 2021

It’s how much good for how many people for how many years that matters in the end.

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
12. That's why Biden told the Dem Congress meeting to think of the benefits & not the price tag
Sat Oct 2, 2021, 09:31 PM
Oct 2021

(Paraphrasing)

Doremus

(7,261 posts)
13. Its the floor, the amount from which they will negotiate up.
Sat Oct 2, 2021, 09:44 PM
Oct 2021

Negotiating is a fine art and, after seeing what went down the other night, I think the Dems have finally mastered it.

myohmy2

(3,118 posts)
15. if...
Sun Oct 3, 2021, 02:08 AM
Oct 2021

...he won't go more than 1.5 then we shouldn't go less than 3.5...

...it's all or nothing and we blame him...

...this time compromise doesn't mean Progressives cave in...

...as much as I could use the boost, fuck it...

...hang in there...

everyonematters

(3,430 posts)
16. Pass what we can now - get bigger majorities in 2022 or 2024.
Sun Oct 3, 2021, 02:51 AM
Oct 2021

You go into the midterms having passed an infrastructure bill. Trump and the Republicans couldn't do it. There hasn't been a major infrastructure bill passed in decades. The Chinese are spending trillions. It is a matter of public safety and national security.

everyonematters

(3,430 posts)
17. Pass what we can now - get bigger majorities in 2022 or 2024.
Sun Oct 3, 2021, 04:36 AM
Oct 2021

You go into the midterms having passed an infrastructure bill. Trump and the Republicans couldn't do it. There hasn't been a major infrastructure bill passed in decades. The Chinese are spending trillions. It is a matter of public safety and national security.

Withywindle

(9,988 posts)
19. We've pulled out of Afghanistan, so take it out of the "defense" budget
Sun Oct 3, 2021, 06:07 AM
Oct 2021

We're not officially at war anywhere now (thank GOD)

Take money out of the fucking "defense" budget. It mostly goes to private corporations anyway. There's billions being wasted there. You could certainly find another trillion if you stripped down the military and the "consulting firms" llke Xe/Blackwater/anything Erik Prince is doing. Just cut all those mercenaries off completely. That would free up SO MUCH MONEY.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
20. Something is better than nothing. Politics is the art of what's possible...
Sun Oct 3, 2021, 07:35 AM
Oct 2021

... some like to characterize it as the art of changing minds, but while that's an admirable goal, it's not always possible... and when it IS possible, it's a very slow process --- meanwhile, people "starve" because nobody was willing to even settle for half-a-loaf. That's the ultimate cost of vengeful pride.

Roisin Ni Fiachra

(2,574 posts)
21. Will Manchin and Sinema vote to pass the Bill even at 1.5 trillion?
Sun Oct 3, 2021, 08:35 AM
Oct 2021

I don't trust anyone who works with my enemies to deliberately cause my party, my people, my country, and my planet great harm.

LetMyPeopleVote

(143,998 posts)
23. Even at $1.5 trillion, the total expenditures from Biden will be over $4.5 trillion
Sun Oct 3, 2021, 02:45 PM
Oct 2021

It you add the $1.9 trillion Cares Act with $1.2 trillion for Bipartisan infrastructure bill plus $1.5 trillion for BBB, you are are over $4.5 trillion That is a good number


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