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Cyrano

(15,027 posts)
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 01:41 PM Oct 2021

Would our country once again "elect" a madman?

IMO, yes. (Whether most voters wanted it or not.)

No one need ever again ask how Germany, a scientifically advanced country that was a Constitutional Republic until 1933, allowed a madman and his fascist followers come to power. After all, we've seen up close and personal how a lunatic "won" the White House in 2016, and then proceeded to try to destroy our American institutions and democracy itself.

The Orange Prick and his loyalists even attempted to hold onto power through a coup d'etat, but it failed. This time. Yet, there are millions of Americans who can't wait to vote the madman and his henchmen back into power in 2024.

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH AMERICA??

How could any sane person want TFG, an idiotic, unstable, horrendous, despicable specimen of humanity back in power? Yeah, I guess if you're a member of any one of the alphabet soup of crazed organizations who hate democracy, you're going to want the deranged creature back infecting the Oval Office.

But are there really enough "aware" voters to let that happen? Well, I doubt it. After all, if Republicans make sure that black people, brown people, and a whole range of other people cast votes that never get counted, and then factor in the current insane gerrymandering of districts in red states, it's likely that Republicans will control the House after the next election.

Then, in 2024, many red state legislatures will ignore how the people in their states voted and opt to put "Dear Leader" back into office. Have enough red states passed laws to make that happen? It's possible.

But the one thing I am sure of is that we must do everything to Get Out The Vote in the hugest numbers ever. And even that may not be enough. Congress MUST, MUST pass a voting rights law that will prevent the theft of an election. (And, if necessary, find a way to break Mancin's and Sinema's arms, or, at worst, blackmail them into getting the fuck out of the way.)

If you really believe, "It Can't Happen Here," please, please understand that it's happening at this very moment. We can vote, but our elected leaders must do much more. They have to "stretch," and perhaps even ignore "the rules" for a while and get a bit of mud on themselves. They must be just as ruthless as those trying to steal our country. And they must also remember that, if/when we "win," we must pull back. After all, we don't want to become worse than those who are trying to destroy us.

40 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Would our country once again "elect" a madman? (Original Post) Cyrano Oct 2021 OP
When someone says there are good people on both sides when comparing nazis and white JohnSJ Oct 2021 #1
Yes, there need to be minimum standards set for candidates FakeNoose Oct 2021 #2
Not good enough Cyrano Oct 2021 #5
If it was up to me... Buckeye_Democrat Oct 2021 #8
The people have a right to pick whomever they want to be president. Russian Spook Oct 2021 #15
It's not going to happen anyway... Buckeye_Democrat Oct 2021 #22
I'm not worked up about it. I was just answering your post. Russian Spook Oct 2021 #29
And I actually agree with your reply to my post. Buckeye_Democrat Oct 2021 #31
What if they sympathize with left-wing authoritarians? Polybius Oct 2021 #19
I'm opposed to fascists regardless of how they... Buckeye_Democrat Oct 2021 #23
Yeah, that's not even a slightly valid test Sympthsical Oct 2021 #25
If you have a better online quiz for RWA, then... Buckeye_Democrat Oct 2021 #28
The Grabber? moondust Oct 2021 #3
once again? I think the first time stillcool Oct 2021 #4
Elections being "a thing of the past" is certainly where we're headed Cyrano Oct 2021 #7
Oh, make no mistake. We DO have that many misogynists, racists and gullible Maru Kitteh Oct 2021 #32
Absolutely. GoodRaisin Oct 2021 #6
The vast majority of people would not. However.. ananda Oct 2021 #9
of course, if repeated propaganda told them to. NewHendoLib Oct 2021 #10
I think even if Trump wasn't running, Mr.Bill Oct 2021 #11
Stupid is just part of it Cyrano Oct 2021 #12
It depends... WarGamer Oct 2021 #13
So America could elect a madman if Cyrano Oct 2021 #14
Angry people vote for change... that's all. WarGamer Oct 2021 #18
We absolutely could elect Trump in 2024. totodeinhere Oct 2021 #16
Every single Republican president in my lifetime has been a total asshole, milestogo Oct 2021 #17
I have two exceptions DFW Oct 2021 #20
Yeah, Eisenhower was the only Republican that... Buckeye_Democrat Oct 2021 #24
If Democrats (Manchin, Sinema) can't make a carve out in the filibuster to address voting, Trump Vinca Oct 2021 #21
I agree. hamsterjill Oct 2021 #26
Agree LeftInTX Oct 2021 #39
It elected Nixon, and W, and Trump Sabuca Oct 2021 #27
don't give a pass to reagan. Javaman Oct 2021 #30
Reagan had the bs charm thing going for him. Dawson Leery Oct 2021 #35
one of the main traits of psychopaths is charm and charism Javaman Oct 2021 #36
I don't give that s**tbag a pass either. Dawson Leery Oct 2021 #40
Reagan began his campaign for president in Philadelphia, Mississippi, Cyrano Oct 2021 #37
Each sides starts with a solid 42% who will never give consideration to the other side. Dawson Leery Oct 2021 #33
Maybe wouldn't happen if only the wealthy could afford to run for office, CozyMystery Oct 2021 #34
What America was, historically and culturally, will not survive. Wingus Dingus Oct 2021 #38

JohnSJ

(92,061 posts)
1. When someone says there are good people on both sides when comparing nazis and white
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 01:51 PM
Oct 2021

supremacists with those who are not, and one political party fully embrace that person, we have already crossed the. Rubicon

FakeNoose

(32,589 posts)
2. Yes, there need to be minimum standards set for candidates
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 01:57 PM
Oct 2021

I'm not talking about "must be born in the USA" or "must be 45 years of age."

I'm talking about REAL minimums with meaningful exclusions. They should meet minimal education standards, for example they've earned a degree from a reputable college or university. They should demonstrate a working knowledge of HOW OUR GOVERNMENT WORKS along with an ability to read legislation and understand/explain it in laymen's terms. They should demonstrate integrity, leadership capability, and charisma - or at least a pleasant personality - wouldn't hurt. (I don't know how their mental state would be addressed, perhaps some kind of a written test? I'm not sure.)

I'm sure others on DU can add to this list. But the point is that the Presidency of the United States isn't open to just anyone who steps in front of a TV camera and says they want to be President. Nor should it be available to anyone who has enough money in their bank account to finance a national campaign. Somehow an impartial non-partisan standard must be devised so we never get another Chump. Ever!

Cyrano

(15,027 posts)
5. Not good enough
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 02:13 PM
Oct 2021

Senators Cruz, Hawley, and Cotton all went to Harvard or Yale -- AND SO FUCKING WHAT?

These are three wannabee fascists who are educated, far, far smarter than the TFG, and far, far more dangerous.

I guess what it comes down to is that there ain't no test for being president other than human decency. We know where these three guys stand on that.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,852 posts)
8. If it was up to me...
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 02:23 PM
Oct 2021

... then anyone who tests as having a right-wing authoritarian (RWA) personality would be excluded from political office. Democrats included, but most RWA's are attracted to the Republican party anyway.

RWA quiz:
https://openpsychometrics.org/tests/RWAS/

Not that such an exclusion will ever happen, of course.

 

Russian Spook

(13 posts)
15. The people have a right to pick whomever they want to be president.
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 03:27 PM
Oct 2021

Except for place of birth and age which is easy to know who do you want to decide who is capable of being president?

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,852 posts)
31. And I actually agree with your reply to my post.
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 07:52 PM
Oct 2021

I still have enough faith in democracy, and the fact that right-wing authoritarians are still a minority of the USA population.

Just like they were a minority in Nazi Germany, but they were able to seize complete power through the 1933 Enabling Act and what then followed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enabling_Act_of_1933

For now, it's mostly voter suppression and gerrymandering by Republicans in this country. But there's been plenty of clues that Trump and his supporters would like to make any criticism of him an illegal act. That was the beginning of the end for the non-RWA's in Germany. Once such laws are in the books, for "emergency" reasons or whatever the excuse, then the military and police would be expected to enforce the law or face dire consequences themselves.

I should've been more clear in my earlier post that it wasn't a very serious proposal by me. (Despite how I consider people with those traits to be extremely dangerous.)

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,852 posts)
23. I'm opposed to fascists regardless of how they...
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 06:00 PM
Oct 2021

... try to identify themselves.

I've also never blindly supported "Murica" either, regardless of this country's policies, the way several right-wing authoritarians have behaved over the years. There's little difference between that behavior and how Nazis behaved in regard to their "Third Reich", whenever the actual policies aren't even questioned.

Example: The RWA-Republicans who protested in the 60's and 70's during the conflict in Vietnam, shouting "My country, right or wrong!"

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,852 posts)
28. If you have a better online quiz for RWA, then...
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 07:10 PM
Oct 2021

... I'm open to seeing it.

I don't consider that link to be some ultimate authority on the subject, but it touches upon the basics of that personality trait.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_authoritarianism#Attitudes

Right-wing authoritarians want society and social interactions structured in ways that increase uniformity and minimize diversity. In order to achieve that, they tend to be in favour of social control, coercion and the use of group authority to place constraints on the behaviours of people such as political dissidents and immigrants. These constraints might include restrictions on immigration, limits on free speech and association and laws regulating moral behaviour. It is the willingness to support or take action that leads to increased social uniformity that makes right-wing authoritarianism more than just a personal distaste for difference. Right-wing authoritarianism is characterized by obedience to authority, moral absolutism and punitiveness towards dissidents and deviants. In parenting, right-wing authoritarians value children's obedience, neatness and good manners.

I put some of that text in bold letters, to highlight the RWA willingness to take ACTION for the sake of uniformity.

I wrote that earlier post mostly in jest, not really expecting such exclusionary tests would ever be taken. And I'd not really force such testing on anyone, even if I had some kind of supreme power... which I'd step away from if I ever did!


Edit:
Please don't feel too assured that those questions seem like a parody. There's plenty of right-wingers in my part of Ohio who would test as RWA's on that very quiz!

Trump and his followers used to seem like a parody to me, like some exaggerated SNL script that could never happen in the real world.

moondust

(19,959 posts)
3. The Grabber?
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 02:08 PM
Oct 2021

His Iowa "Grabfest" over the weekend featured at least 3 female politicians including the Iowa governor. Maybe somebody should ask them if they enjoyed the grab.

stillcool

(32,626 posts)
4. once again? I think the first time
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 02:11 PM
Oct 2021

is debatable, and if Republicans get their way those election things will be a thing of the past.

Cyrano

(15,027 posts)
7. Elections being "a thing of the past" is certainly where we're headed
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 02:17 PM
Oct 2021

The Republican Party has become an organization of pure "evil." And if they "win" the next two elections, then real elections will be a thing of the past. They will be "shows" of the type that are practiced in Russia and elsewhere.

Maru Kitteh

(28,317 posts)
32. Oh, make no mistake. We DO have that many misogynists, racists and gullible
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 09:18 PM
Oct 2021

dim-witted ass-hats in this country. He WAS elected.

ananda

(28,835 posts)
9. The vast majority of people would not. However..
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 02:27 PM
Oct 2021

the red states and the courts might allow the minority
to rule.

Mr.Bill

(24,241 posts)
11. I think even if Trump wasn't running,
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 02:32 PM
Oct 2021

probably half of the republicans would vote for Ted Nugent if he was running. That's how stupid they are.

Cyrano

(15,027 posts)
12. Stupid is just part of it
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 02:55 PM
Oct 2021

It seems to me that many of these voters have a malignant streak. We vote based on the well being we want for ourselves and others.They vote based on cruelty and hatred.

WarGamer

(12,355 posts)
13. It depends...
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 03:03 PM
Oct 2021

If we're in a recession in '24... if a Big Mac costs $10 and a Gallon of gas is $7...

Anything can happen.

Cyrano

(15,027 posts)
14. So America could elect a madman if
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 03:22 PM
Oct 2021

prices are too high?

Sigh.

Most people have no clue that a president doesn't control the economy.

I agree with the quote by H.L. Mencken, an early 20th Century columnist and cynic who covered the Scopes Monkey Trial for the Baltimore Sun:

"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people."

totodeinhere

(13,056 posts)
16. We absolutely could elect Trump in 2024.
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 03:29 PM
Oct 2021

Several polls are showing Biden and Trump in a dead heat if the election were held today. And in the future we could elect someone else like Trump or even worse. Never underestimate the stupidly of the American voter.

milestogo

(16,829 posts)
17. Every single Republican president in my lifetime has been a total asshole,
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 03:32 PM
Oct 2021

with the possible exception of Gerald Ford.

But while there used to be Republicans who were more or less normal (Romney, McCain) its hard to find one now. They have moved further and further to the right till they reached batshit crazy with Trump.

Its happening here, and within my lifetime.

DFW

(54,299 posts)
20. I have two exceptions
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 04:35 PM
Oct 2021

Eisenhower, who was elected in the year I was born, and Gerry Ford, who was a friend of my dad's, and whom I met. He was actually OK, though the cooler dude was Rocky.

The rest of them? Schoolyard bullies, vengeful nerds, and psychopaths.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,852 posts)
24. Yeah, Eisenhower was the only Republican that...
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 06:52 PM
Oct 2021

... my Democratic parents voted for.

He'd be considered a "liberal" by today's GOP standards anyway.

And Ike tried to warn the country about the growing military-industrial complex too, which many Republicans would treat like treasonous remarks over the last several decades.

Vinca

(50,237 posts)
21. If Democrats (Manchin, Sinema) can't make a carve out in the filibuster to address voting, Trump
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 05:36 PM
Oct 2021

will be installed whether he wins more votes or not. GOP-controlled states are hard at work passing legislation so they can gift the electors to whoever the hell they want. I don't think elected Democrats are taking this seriously enough by a long shot. 2025 will be too late.

hamsterjill

(15,220 posts)
26. I agree.
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 07:01 PM
Oct 2021

Especially with the part about Dems not taking this seriously enough. This is it. We either fight to save democracy or it is gone.

Javaman

(62,504 posts)
30. don't give a pass to reagan.
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 07:41 PM
Oct 2021

he was infected with the crazy bullshit to.

if you doubt me, go into the way back machine and read up on the Iran Contra scandal.

yeah, he was a crooked fuck but he believed his bullshit enough to lie about it.

Dawson Leery

(19,348 posts)
35. Reagan had the bs charm thing going for him.
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 09:33 PM
Oct 2021

Nixon winning 60% should have been a warning to America. The "man" had no charisma and literally looked like a weasel.
But he promised to protect the "simple folk" from the "exotics".

Javaman

(62,504 posts)
36. one of the main traits of psychopaths is charm and charism
Tue Oct 12, 2021, 08:18 AM
Oct 2021

I still don't give him a pass.

plus he was a half baked actor.

a self indulgent fool who convinced himself via ego that he was the only solution to "fix" america.

remember, he was the one that coined the phrase, "make america great again".

Dawson Leery

(19,348 posts)
40. I don't give that s**tbag a pass either.
Tue Oct 12, 2021, 09:53 PM
Oct 2021

All I am saying is that Nixon started it. Reagan refined it.

Cyrano

(15,027 posts)
37. Reagan began his campaign for president in Philadelphia, Mississippi,
Tue Oct 12, 2021, 12:37 PM
Oct 2021

the place where three civil rights workers were murdered by the Klan.

The fact that he chose that place to start his campaign is a thousand times louder than a dog whistle.

Dawson Leery

(19,348 posts)
33. Each sides starts with a solid 42% who will never give consideration to the other side.
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 09:25 PM
Oct 2021

The GOP WILL proudly support David Duke/Sarah Palin ticket if nominated.

Yes, you will see his signs in your blue neighborhood if there are any supporters.

CozyMystery

(652 posts)
34. Maybe wouldn't happen if only the wealthy could afford to run for office,
Mon Oct 11, 2021, 09:25 PM
Oct 2021

by having the Feds pay for Federal elections (with a cost limit per candidate) and by outlawing lobbyists.

I still remember, when I was young and dumb, the first election I could vote in. I was so excited about Jimmy Carter, the peanut farmer. I liked what he had to say, and I also liked that he was just an ordinary person. I was shocked to find out that peanut farmers could be wealthy.

He's proven that he was a statesman, and honorable, and honest, through out his entire life. I still admire him greatly.

Wingus Dingus

(8,052 posts)
38. What America was, historically and culturally, will not survive.
Tue Oct 12, 2021, 12:55 PM
Oct 2021

It will be a new and profoundly worse country, and many vulnerable people will suffer.

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