General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"This is about working class folks finally stepping up and saying, 'enough is enough.'
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Ocelot II
(115,597 posts)calimary
(81,120 posts)They need to pay their fair share. If theyre rich, then they can well afford to.
This whole mess needs to be messaged better.
You can help your country! Your country needs you!
And its not taxes you pay. Its dues.
Its DUES.
You can bet anything you want that most - if not all - of the very wealthy willingly splurge on country club memberships. Chi-chi association memberships. Fraternal organization memberships. And the like. And its a prestige thing. Because they can afford it. And it tends to be on the expensive. But again, its the prestige.
So, consider the United States. Its an entity widely regarded as Absolutely Top Drawer. The Number One country on earth. The dream of freedom realized, where EVERYBODY wants to live, and multitudes from other countries want to move to. In one respect, America with all its rights and benefits and privileges is like the most desirable and envied country club on earth. With ALL those rights, privileges, benefits, and freedoms.
Well, to be part of a first-class country club, you have to pay dues. And I bet NO wealthy person begrudges paying those dues, because of ALL the actual and potential benefits they know up front are involved. And still they pay up.
Well, thats America. The coolest, most wonderful, and MOST desirable country club on earth. But anyone can belong and avail themselves of the benefits and opportunities. And as with any first-class country club, you pay dues to help fund and support all those coveted benefits and privileges and other goodies that YOU can take full advantage of.
And when youre talking countries, those country club dues are called taxes.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Class resentment goes way too far when it promotes populist divisiveness between people who see themselves as "working class" and better-paid middle class workers. And so do politicians who fan it as a means to personal power.
Our goal must be equity and prosperity for all people who work.
ALL WORKERS have far more power than just "working class folks," and so-called middle class workers are by far the larger group.
After all, a middle class range of prosperity is what we aspire to for all working people. The middle class expanded for decades under liberal domination, then in the 1980s it began shrinking. Now it's time to re-expand. Big time.
UNITY IN ACTION.
Uncle Joe
(58,295 posts)ALL WORKERS have far more power than just "working class folks," and so-called middle class workers are by far the larger group.
They came in at number 11 poorest city in the U.S. in 2011, perhaps things have improved since then?
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)He's the leader of a national LW populist movement, socialist version.
These posts are useful for illuminating the different ideologies and movements involved. Who different politicians are, what they are, what they're doing, and how they do it.
The Democratic/Biden approach to helping everyone through positive government action epitomizes liberal and progressive ideology. Positive action through government, fixing, improving, building better.
Liberal Democrats never try to divide by encouraging notions of class victimization and resentment of low-pay workers against those doing better, even middle class workers. Those dark energies are fuel for populist movements.
Our goal is to bring everyone together to lift all boats. And, once again -- and this GOOD! -- far more workers are middle class than working class. Lots of political heft there to move us all in the right direction.
Uncle Joe
(58,295 posts)lifting all boat thing works for her and all major Democratic leaders come out and support her.
I've heard that rising tide lifting all the boats idea before, it was called supply side or trickle down economics
the problem is that some people have boats
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but not enough trickles down to the people that don't.
It doesn't have to be a literal boat either it can also be massive holdings in stock as your boat but the vast majority of the American people depend on their labor as their floatation device and too many of them are living paycheck to paycheck.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)predatory RW/libertarian trickle-down economics? I'm guessing you don't really mean it, but to me it's a very odd connection to draw, for any reason.
Have a nice evening, Uncle Joe.
Uncle Joe
(58,295 posts)Have a nice evening Hortensis.
Ocelot II
(115,597 posts)And by "the boss," I mean the guy (it's almost always a guy) who doesn't have to work for a paycheck but instead uses your labor, regardless of the color of your collar, to make his money. If you have to depend on a job and not your investments, you're a worker.
LakeArenal
(28,804 posts)How does that change, Bernie?
speak easy
(9,189 posts)that's gotta be something to be -right? -right? By the Right, take your country back, quick march!
speak easy
(9,189 posts)that's gotta be something to be -right? -right? By the Right, take your country back, quick march!
https://genius.com/2082405/John-lennon-working-class-hero/But-youre-still-fucking-peasants-as-far-as-i-can-see
Ligyron
(7,616 posts)Somehow show those who would vote against their own interests that which everyone here already knows.
If we could somehow get at least most of them woke, on the same page and voting that way
the Corporate Masters and ultra wealthy wouldnt have a chance.
Now then: how exactly we accomplish this, Ill admit I dont know.
The media is a large part of the problem, I know that.
President Biden needs to seize the bully pulpit and lay some truth out there in simple terms. As has been said before, most people have no idea whats in the BBB but polls indicate they support most of what is, they just dont know it yet.
Now, if only someone would explain this to them
in simple terms mind you.
Kamala would be a good spokesperson for this too. So would Ms Porter.
LakeArenal
(28,804 posts)Bernie is a fab Democrat who in the past I supported. His message is right on.
His message foundation of our party.
Hes been around for Democratic presidents and the others.
Yet the middle class has lost more than its gained.
This is NOT an indictment of Bernie Sanders...
Why do folks vote against their best interests? How do we stop it?
Is it our messaging, our broad party with diverse opinions coming together? How do we get the media to work with the middle class and not with corporate shareholders.
I certainly have no solutions to those things. But I want Senators to figure it out.
They only have 2.5 years to figure it out.
Ocelot II
(115,597 posts)better jobs, higher wages, more economic opportunities, etc. But what if some people perceive their best interests as something else, something they think Trumpism will give them - an end to abortion and immigration, Jesus in every school, owning the libs, a sense of dominance over those other people?
Uncle Joe
(58,295 posts)and I don't believe that city is anywhere near about to desire the latter.
But what are their best interests? We assume those interests are things like better jobs, higher wages, more economic opportunities, etc. But what if some people perceive their best interests as something else, something they think Trumpism will give them - an end to abortion and immigration, Jesus in every school, owning the libs, a sense of dominance over those other people?
Ocelot II
(115,597 posts)to get people to understand that guns, god 'n' gays are not a part of their best interests, since it would appear that there are many people who would rather be economically deprived than part with their guns, their fundie Christianity and their prejudices. So far the progressive movement has done a shit job of that, having been unable to shed the false stigma of "socialism," which isn't actually a thing any more - but the GOP has been very effective in persuading the base that it is.
Uncle Joe
(58,295 posts)which I also strongly believe are akin to matters of national security in our government's ability to stand, whether it be climate change, massive income inequality, or our failing health and education systems, etc. largely because of decades of bad policies geared toward primarily benefiting the very top of the heap whether it be billionaire oligarchs or mega-corporations.
I believe the American people as a whole are changing, becoming more aware, particularly the younger generations.
The Republicans are only "effective" insofar as the corporate media will carry their water but those days are changing either for the better or worse.
Ultimately, I believe our nation has two primary choices either go the way of progressive populism or straight up authoritarian rule dominated by the oligarchs and mega-corporations.
Ocelot II
(115,597 posts)Bernie's broken-record ranting about millionaires and billionaires and "working families" isn't making a dent in the voting tendencies of the so-class working class. They still vote GOP because the GOP has been better at persuading them that their best interests are served by excluding immigrants, imprisoning Black people and favoring the economic interests of the wealthy.
Uncle Joe
(58,295 posts)persuaded when they voted for India Walton in the Democratic Primary only to have their long ignored voices disrespected even more by Byron Brown.
(snip)
Walton became active in politics at the age of twelve when she protested Rockefeller Drug Laws with her mother as part of the activist group Families Against Mandatory Minimums.[4][5][6] While working as a nurse, she served as a representative for 1199SEIU United Healthcare Workers East.[7] She later became executive director of Fruit Belt Community Land Trust. She was active in the George Floyd protests, and criticized Mayor Byron Brown for his handling of the Buffalo police shoving incident.[8] She is a member of the Democratic Socialists of America.[9]
Walton announced her campaign for the mayoralty of Buffalo, in the 2021 election on December 13, 2020.[10] During the campaign, Brown, who has served as mayor for four terms, refused to debate Walton.[4][11] The Working Families Party, which had supported Brown in every previous election, gave its nomination to Walton and Walton received support from the Democratic Socialists of America.[12][13] However, Walton did not formally accept the party's endorsement before the deadline so she did not appear on the ballot with the Working Families nomination.[14] Her campaign raised $150,000 compared to Brown who raised over $500,000.[9]
Walton was declared the winner of the Democratic primary against Brown and Le'Candice Durham on June 22, 2021.[15] If elected in the general election, she will be the first socialist mayor of a large city since Frank Zeidler left office as mayor of Milwaukee in 1960. Walton would be the first socialist mayor in New York since John H. Gibbons was elected mayor of Lackawanna in 1919.[16][17] She will be opposed in the general election by Brown, who announced a write-in campaign.[18]
(snip)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India_Walton
(snip)
In 2021 Brown campaigned for an unprecedented fifth term,[103] but was defeated in the Democratic primary on June 23, 2021 by India Walton.[104][105] During the primary campaign, Brown did not participate in debates.[106][107] While initially low key in his fundraising efforts,[108] he was supported by a number of wealthy donors late into his campaign.[109]
After his defeat in the primary, Brown announced that he would run as a write-in candidate in the general election.[110] Since the Erie County Democratic Party has supported India Walton following her victory in the Democratic Party primary, Brown has increasingly relied on support from local Republican officials and right-wing organizations which are opposed to Walton, including to assist with collecting signatures for a place on the general election ballot. On August 17, 2021, Brown's campaign submitted approximately 3,000 signatures in order to appear on the ballot as an independent, with the party label "Buffalo Party."[111][112][113] The Erie County Board of Elections initially ruled the petitions invalid, and Brown sued for ballot access.[114] However, on September 16, 2021, state and federal courts ruled against Brown, meaning that he will not appear on the 2021 general election ballot and will instead continue his campaign as a write-in candidate.[115]
(snip)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byron_Brown
LakeArenal
(28,804 posts)That is the actual problem.
Those things have a nominal interest to them in the real world.
Abortion rights with or without dont really affect that many voters life. It affects the rights of women ages 8-60.
Jesus..... How do you change the mind
when its their faith? Jesus would want education, health, prosperity...
Owning libs is their main motivation in my opinion. How do you change the bullies in the world to focus on themselves?
I_UndergroundPanther
(12,462 posts)Showed cruel people with sociopathic tendencies they could act out thier cruelty, abusiveness,bullying and violence and torment people and get away with it.
This is the kind of people Magats and Quanons are.they were assholes before tfg.
I think population wise 1/3rd of people in this country are sociopathic or at least on the spectrum of dark triad personality types.
They seek quanon and tfg because its what they like to hear.it validates thier sick fantasies and beliefs
The Q people chose Quanon, and they let it consume them because they wanted to be consumed by it. I think they didnt innocently fumble thier way into a rabbit hole.
Deep down the q's already were anti social conspiracy nuts.
Quanon was right down thier alley so they ran with it.
Tommymac
(7,263 posts)Thank You Senator Sanders.