Facebook is a cyber Lord of the Flies.

[Binkie The Clown]

We should have known ahead of time what happens when there is no "adult supervision." It should have been obvious that connecting everyone in a way that allowed for complete freedom of expression would lead to amplifying the very worst that is in human nature. The urge to hurt seems to be much more powerful than the urge to help. That's just so sad, and just another reason why the human race is doomed.

[brooklynite]

1. So communication should be "moderated"?

Who gets to decide what's acceptable?

[Binkie The Clown]

3. Well, isn't lack of moderation what turned it into such a cesspool of lies and misinformation? nt

[MineralMan]

7. You can be your own Facebook moderator, you know.

Maybe you don't know that. I have no idea.

[snowybirdie]

2. Gee

Not feeling doomed and enjoy FB as a way to keep in contact with loved ones around the country.

[Binkie The Clown]

5. Freinds and family know my email address.

And there's always CC if you want everyone to know what kind of burrito you're eating right now.

[USALiberal]

10. Not even close to that. Nt

[ret5hd]

12. They will never acknowledge that their simple presence there makes Zucky money...

They also will never acknowledge that every dollar you spend (or, in this case, earn for another) is a vote for the type of world you want.

Yeah, sometimes it's a choice between two evils...but you still should try to choose the lesser evil.

[colsohlibgal]

4. Agree

As to keeping up with friends and family what’s wrong with talking or texting?

[brooklynite]

47. As to keeping up with friends and family what's wrong with using the form you like?

[MineralMan]

6. Yeah, OK Then...

That's a very popular thing to say around here.

It's also not universally true. It is entirely possible to use Facebook without any such nonsense. You just have to use it sensibly and set your user parameters in a way that keeps you away from all of the nonsense that can occur on that social media site.

As you will hear from me and others, you don't have to be bombarded by political crap on Facebook, nor slanted news posts and ads. You just have to control your own user experience, which Facebook lets you do without too much trouble at all.

For many like me, it is nothing more than a place to communicate with friends and family. For others, it is a way to even conduct a small business social media presence at zero cost. You can use Facebook to deal with many customer service needs with no muss and no fuss, really.

Any Facebook user can control their own experience in using Facebook. It's not difficult.

You might be like a lot of Facebook detractors who don't ever use Facebook, who don't even have a presence there, and who are writing based on no personal experience with the platform. I don't know, but if you do use Facebook and are seeing all sorts of political falsehoods, you're not controlling your experience with the available tools on Facebook.

[lagomorph777]

8. Your presence on the platform funds the delivery of lies to other people.

So congrats if you've managed to block most of what comes to your feed. That's half of the problem.

Also, you're providing a ton of personal data to a deeply venal organization, who are re-selling it. Yeah, yeah, Google does it too, etc. But Zuckerberg is a whole 'nother level of evil.

[MineralMan]

11. Does it? No. I contribute no financial support to Facebook

whatsoever. I click on nothing. I don't even see or notice stuff to click on, really. I see only my own personal feed, which is only visible and interactive with those I have friended.

The rest of Facebook, I simply ignore. Facebook makes no money from me at all.

Anyone can use it the same way.

Facebook, like the rest of the Internet, is wide open to everyone. Each of us has to customize our own experience on Facebook, and on every other available Internet platform. That's our responsibility in a wide open environment. Even DU has tools that let users block other users and avoid ever seeing them. That's apparently necessary, even on a venue that is heavily slanted to one point of view.

How is it you think I fund Facebook in any way? I do not.

What personal information do you think Facebook has about me? They know my name and my email address. Nothing more, because I have not given them any further information. I don't click on things there. I don't search there. I do nothing there except read my personal feed and post things my friends can see. You can't see them. Nobody can. Only those I have selected as friends.

Google, on the other hand, sees all of my searches and focuses advertising on interests I appear to have. Amazon does the same. I ignore all of that, too. I control my eyes and my fingers. I control my responses to whatever I see on any place on the Internet.

Our responsibility is to be selective in an environment that is open to everyone. That responsibility does not belong to anyone else, and shouldn't. I use Facebook and those other venues in my own way. Others use them in other ways. I shouldn't want to control what others do any more than I want others to control what I do.

The Internet is an open place. We are just users of it, so it falls on each of us to control our own experience and actions.

[lagomorph777]

13. That's an illusion.

Everything you click on (even your sister-in-law's dog) is data, which is sold for cash.

[MineralMan]

22. Oh, for pete's sake.

I control my own clicks, see? I'm aware of what happens when I click on something.

How stupid do you think I am?

Here's a question for you: Who would you allow to filter everything you see?

[lagomorph777]

30. Nobody.

I split search duties among different engines.

The closest I come to any "social media" is DU.

[brooklynite]

48. IOW you limit your exposure to people who largely agree with you.

[lagomorph777]

56. Yup. My confirmation bias is strong.

I just have no patience for listening to evil anymore.

[Binkie The Clown]

34. How is it that a corporate CEO can put his own wealth above the polution of the environment?

Because he turns a blind eye to the harm his company is doing. His own desires trump any concern for the broader harm being done.

How can someone continue to support social media?
Because he turns a blind eye to the harm his support is doing. His own desires trump any concern for the broader harm being done.

I enjoy the convenience of bottled water. I don't care what harm all those empty bottles do to the oceans.
I enjoy driving my gas guzzler. I don't care what harm all that pollution does to the environment.
I enjoy buying cheap clothing at walmart. I don't care that it was produced by near-slave labor in third world countries.
I enjoy my smart phone. I don't care that the mining of rare earth elements is leaving vast swaths of the planet devastated.
I enjoy the convenience of disposable razors. I don't care....
I enjoy ___ and thus I don't care what harm it does to others.

[MineralMan]

54. You Wrote:

I enjoy the convenience of bottled water. I don't care what harm all those empty bottles do to the oceans.
I enjoy driving my gas guzzler. I don't care what harm all that pollution does to the environment.
I enjoy buying cheap clothing at walmart. I don't care that it was produced by near-slave labor in third world countries.
I enjoy my smart phone. I don't care that the mining of rare earth elements is leaving vast swaths of the planet devastated.
I enjoy the convenience of disposable razors. I don't care....
I enjoy ___ and thus I don't care what harm it does to others.

I only drink socialist water - it is supplied by my local government. What do you drink?
I drive as little as possible. What is your primary mode of transport?
I buy nothing from Walmart. Where do you buy your clothing? Where was it made? Check your labels
I use a smart phone and a PC. What are you using to post on on DU?
I don't shave. I have a full beard, and have had one since 1969. How do you remove your facial or other hair?
I have no children, a decision made in 1965 to avoid adding to the population. Have you any children?
I use Facebook to keep in touch with family and friends. What's that to you?

Those are all pertinent questions, since you are telling us what we must and must not do. Will you answer them? Virtue signaling can lead to difficult questions....

[LeftInTX]

20. Tell that to the following:

https://www.facebook.com/joebiden
https://www.facebook.com/KamalaHarris
https://www.facebook.com/pelosiforcongress
https://www.facebook.com/berniesanders
https://www.facebook.com/OcasioCortez

Thank you for your time...Would you like their phone numbers/email?

[Binkie The Clown]

15. It CAN be used responsibly, but that's not always the case.

There are some people who have the good sense and civic responsibility to behave in a way that does not harm the community. Wouldn't it be nice if only those kinds of people were allowed to use facebook? Granted any given individual can use facebook responsibly, just as any given gun owner can use his gun responsibly.

Is every facebook user responsible?
Is every gun owner responsible?

I can protect myself from harmful content, but who protects our children from harmful content?
Responsible parents can protect their children from harmful content, but are all parents that responsible? Really?

It boils down to the fact that a significant fraction of the population is capable of harming others via social media, and seem to have no moral inhibitions from doing so. Give a sociopath a gun and you won't be happy with the outcome. Give a sociopath a megaphone on social media and you won't be happy with the outcome.

It's certainly true that you are not harmed by social media. Is it certainly true of the community as a whole?

[MineralMan]

18. I do not accept, nor do I want, the ability to control

anyone but myself. The Internet does not belong to me. It is an open system. I have to use it in a way that meets my needs and interests. How do others use it? That's not my responsibility, frankly. The tools are there to customize your own experience. Please do that. In an open system, you do not get to control the experience of others.

[Binkie The Clown]

24. So you're OK with this?

https://clementineprograms.com/social-media-trigger-eating-disorder/
https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-07-20/social-media-is-a-public-health-crisis
https://www.center4research.org/social-media-affects-mental-health/

How does a community's responsibility to protect it's weakest members get tossed aside so casually?

[MineralMan]

27. Which community should be in charge, Binkie?

There are many groups out there, including the Trumpers. Do you want them to control the Internet?

Who gets to decide, Binkie?

[Binkie The Clown]

32. And therein lies the impossibility of protecting ourselves from our own freedoms.

Until we mature as a species we will have to live with these impossible problems.
Or until these problems destroy us.

[Elessar Zappa]

38. I've never

seen any type of right wing propaganda on Facebook. If I do see news in my feed, it’s from mainstream sources such as the BBC.

[MineralMan]

40. But see, the people here who claim that nobody should use it

don't use it themselves, so the think everyone should do as they do. I find that interesting, and sort of authoritarian of them.

My experience on Facebook is the same as yours. I never see any right-wing propaganda there. I did have an old high school friend who posted some nonsense, but I unfriended that person immediately. By the same token, I never post political things on FB.

[brooklynite]

49. "I hate X and so should you" has always been a popular OP topic.

[MineralMan]

52. Yes. You're right.

The irony of telling fellow Democrats what to do is palpable. Authoritarianism comes from all parts of the political spectrum.

[HAB911]

9. We are but Chimps

[CrackityJones75]

14. I get political robo calls.

Perhaps I should give up my telephone too?

[Binkie The Clown]

17. Wouldn't you prefer that robo calls were filtered out so that you never got them in the first place?

Oh, wait. Isn't that censorship? What about the robo callers right to free speech?

Shouldn't harmful content be filtered out of social media?

It's not social media per se that I object to. It's the fact that there is no adult supervision when some is clearly needed.

[MineralMan]

21. Filtered out by whom?

Who do you trust to decide what you see? Why should anyone else trust you to decide for them?

That makes no sense at all.

[CrackityJones75]

23. I really think you need to have a long hard think

I really think you need to have a long hard think about what you are saying here.

Who is going to moderate that? What other evils could very well sprout out of that? Is it a govt agency that decides what is propaganda and what is organic discussion and who controls that agency? The incoming administration that would very likely wish to use the power of that agency to stifle communication?

I think facebook engages in some dangerous activities. Illegal. Anti-democratic. But how are you going to justify shutting them down when some right winger could use the exact same arguments to say that this site needs to be shut down?

[MineralMan]

26. Exactly.

Who should you trust to control what you see on the Internet? Anyone who suggests that controls be put in place should ask themselves that question.

[Binkie The Clown]

28. Thus the conundrum.

Without moderation it is demonstrably harmful to a significant portion of the community.
With moderation, that moderation can be abused to cause harm to the community.

The fact that we both need, and cannot trust moderation is proof of just how flawed the species as a whole is.
Many of us do have the maturity to use these tools responsibly. The rest of us do not. It's that "rest of us" that will bring civilization to its knees.

[MineralMan]

41. Are you not also of the human species?

Should everyone do as you tell them to do? Do you not see the contradiction there?

[SunImp]

53. We have a good system here on DU, but it also seems to have many flaws

Hopefully the admins can improve it to make it less prone to abuse.

[brooklynite]

50. My spam calls are tagged by my wireless provider...

I have the option of changing providers anytime I want.

[marble falls]

16. More of a big box of flies.

[drexelkathy]

19. Facebook is also

One of the most inexpensive ways for individuals to advertise that exists.


A good friend of mine runs a small woodworking business out of his garage.

I’ve watched his business SOAR in the past 2 years because of the reach of Facebook.

My husband’s business advertising costs have become almost nothing because of the reach of social media…whereas previously he spent quite a bit on other avenues.


Two weeks ago, I had a package delivered to my house incorrectly…Facebook neighborhood group helped me to find the gentleman living in the new over 55 community so I could get his package to him.

Two night ago, my dopey dog got a LEGO stuck in his teeth. My go-to emergent vet hospital is no longer around…Facebook found me another emergency vet faster than my fingers could just searching google.


Like anything else, it’s a platform. How you use it and what you get from it is up to individuals

[Alexander Of Assyria]

25. Well said. But is using FB responsibly, ofc, to keep in touch, etc., worth the price of fascism?

Tough one.

[Binkie The Clown]

31. One of those problems that has no solution.

Until the species as a whole matures there is no answer. When will that happen?
It won't.

Perhaps the only possible solution is Plato's "Philosopher King."
Wikipedia: "According to Plato, a philosopher king is a ruler who possesses a love of wisdom, as well as intelligence, reliability, and a willingness to live a simple life."

[Alexander Of Assyria]

36. Yes. Make Biden King, philosopher king or benevolent dictator, doesn't matter in the

terminology.

After all the American fascist party is good with American kings, just not the British kind…if history serves.

[Scrivener7]

29. Perfect description. And that is exactly what we are seeing it do, only on a national scale.

[Ferrets are Cool]

33. I just block what I don't want to see.

Easy Peasy.

[Binkie The Clown]

35. I like it, and I don't care what harm it does to others. So there. nt

[Alexander Of Assyria]

37. If you can't see or hear it it doesn't exist. Where have you been?

[Kaleva]

61. Some people read the Bible for inspiration. Others read it to harm.

It depends on the individual reader as to how the Bible is used. For Good or Evil.

[Kaleva]

59. Think of how radio, film and the printed press enabled Hitler, Stalin, Mao to inflict massive harm

Without the printed press, fortune seeking Europeans wouldn't have traveled to the Americas to commit genocide on an epic scale.

Facebook is small potatoes when compared to the harm done throughout history by other means of communication.

[Elessar Zappa]

39. Social media may need some form of regulation

but it will have to stand up to our first amendment. Any type of forced moderation would likely be overturned by the courts. I use FB and have no problems. People who see bullshit want to see bullshit.

[MineralMan]

43. Many of the people who tell us that nobody should use Facebook

don't use it themselves, and think they are somehow superior to those of us who do. They are telling us what we must do, because that's what they do. Authoritarianism is what it is, regardless of who's dishing it out. Ironic.

[Elessar Zappa]

44. It's the new

“cool kid” thing around here to bash those of us who use Facebook.

[MineralMan]

45. Well, some of us don't mind talking back about that.

[brooklynite]

51. "Social media may need some form of regulation"

Who would you like regulating platforms like DU?

[Saboburns]

42. The problem, Dear Binkie, lies not within Facebook but within ourselves.

nt

[SunImp]

46. It's not just Facebook it's the whole internet

Without any REAL mods to moderate discussions sociopathic people out there feel that they can antagonize people without any repercussions for their actions. In many places they have succeeded in pushing out decent and intelligent people out of the community leaving only the worst of the worst to rule the discussions.

[Torchlight]

55. Sitting in my (admittedly) small-view swiveled arm-chair

it looks like your description and criticisms applies to the entirety of the internet.

My suspicion is that Facebook is a symptom rather than a cause. It's an obvious and well-known symptom (and may even be the best example of the symptom), but is only a symptom of the greater underlying problems of state-actors and commercial interests manipulating desire and expectation writ large, something Madison Avenue has excelled at to such a degree that almost every childhood friend of mine purchased Pet Rocks when they were a thing.

This all seems to come back to Douglas Adams' writings, which I'll paraphrase: everything that exists before you were born is just normal, the way things should be. Everything that is invented from your birth until you're about thirty is cool and neat and innovative. And everything invented after you're thirty is "against the natural order of things and the beginning of the end of civilization as we know it."

But my window onto the human condition is small, and a lot of people know a lot more things than I ever will.

[traitorsgalore]

57. Facebook is what a person makes of it. I love it

There are groups there for every topic on Earth and 99% of the members of the groups I'm in are wonderful people.

Facebook's big problem is they don't crack down on hate speech and propaganda.

[GusBob]

58. You should really do something about that, sounds serious

eom

[USALiberal]

60. Silly! Nt

[Binkie The Clown]

62. Thank you everyone for your thougthful replies.

Now I must retire to my thinking chair and ponder the whole issue yet again.
No answer is the final answer, and no opinion should be the final opinion.
You may have changed my mind. Time will tell.

[AnyFunctioningAdult]

63. Discouraging

Way too many people on here seem completely onboard with censorship, so long as the people and opinions being censored are ones they agree with censoring.

Now imagine the Department of "Truth" existing in the next election cycle. No thanks, and I will fight against anyone wanting to clamp down on free speech. The answer to bad speech is always more speech.