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Wed Oct 27, 2021, 05:48 PM

Verrrry interesting.... vaccinated people die less of OTHER causes, too....

"CDC data show that people vaccinated with the Pfizer or Moderna covid-19 jabs are one-third as likely to die of other causes too."
"The CDC’s study started with the health records of more than 11million Americans. Researchers followed these people from December 2020 to July 2021, recording any deaths and their causes. During this period around 6million people in the cohort received jabs for covid-19. The researchers could then separate those who happened to die after having had their vaccinations from those who died unvaccinated."
"The report showed that, after removing any deaths associated with covid-19, and controlling for demographic factors such as age and sex, people who had been jabbed were far likelier to have survived."
"For the unvaccinated, the mortality rate was more than three times as high, at 1.11 per 100 person-years. The pattern held across all races and ethnicities."
"This is not the first time scientists have found that vaccines designed to prevent one disease would seem to protect against other causes of death. Even though seasonal influenza is only responsible for around 5% of winter mortality, several large-cohort studies have found that the mortality rate due to any cause is around 50% lower in people who have been vaccinated against flu."
"real-world data is never perfectly controlled. It seems all but certain that some still-invisible difference between people who get the vaccine and those who do not, rather than some unknown benefit of the jab, is to thank (or blame) for the vaccine’s correlative effects. Jabs are not immunizations against mortality.”



https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/10/27/people-with-covid-jabs-have-been-less-likely-to-die-of-other-causes?fbclid=IwAR38G7NenJGhrVS7kuDKluXE4OBS1c6H112oi7KgrwbKhxeerg5qqE11vRA

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Reply Verrrry interesting.... vaccinated people die less of OTHER causes, too.... (Original post)
albacore Oct 2021 OP
Midnight Writer Oct 2021 #1
dem4decades Oct 2021 #4
Shermann Oct 2021 #13
calimary Oct 2021 #17
dem4decades Oct 2021 #18
calimary Oct 2021 #19
LineLineLineNew Reply .
berni_mccoy Oct 2021 #21
littlemissmartypants Oct 2021 #14
brewens Oct 2021 #2
unblock Oct 2021 #3
GopherGal Oct 2021 #10
ThoughtCriminal Oct 2021 #5
Ron Obvious Oct 2021 #6
Gore1FL Oct 2021 #9
Sherman A1 Oct 2021 #20
Ron Obvious Oct 2021 #22
cadoman Oct 2021 #7
Jazz Jon Oct 2021 #8
Mariana Oct 2021 #11
albacore Oct 2021 #12
Wounded Bear Oct 2021 #15
Rhiannon12866 Oct 2021 #16

Response to albacore (Original post)

Wed Oct 27, 2021, 06:01 PM

1. Perhaps cognitive proficiency is a factor.

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Response to Midnight Writer (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 27, 2021, 06:05 PM

4. Nah, Vaccinated people are just smarter and make better decisions.

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Response to dem4decades (Reply #4)

Wed Oct 27, 2021, 07:18 PM

13. Ha!

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Response to dem4decades (Reply #4)

Wed Oct 27, 2021, 07:44 PM

17. ... and might make better lovers!"

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Response to calimary (Reply #17)

Wed Oct 27, 2021, 07:47 PM

18. Nah, definitely make better lovers. They show concern for the needs of others.

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Response to dem4decades (Reply #18)

Wed Oct 27, 2021, 08:00 PM

19. Yep!

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Response to dem4decades (Reply #4)

Wed Oct 27, 2021, 08:16 PM

21. .

 

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Response to Midnight Writer (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 27, 2021, 07:29 PM

14. It might if it was actually a thing.

"cognitive proficiency"

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Wed Oct 27, 2021, 06:05 PM

2. Some are unvaccinated for good reason and taking full precautions, including putting off

other medical care to avoid contact. That puts them at higher risk for whatever else might do them in. I have my two Moderna, would rather not have contact, but have felt comfortable enough to go to my regular medical appointments. If I was still waiting, I would have put those off.

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Wed Oct 27, 2021, 06:05 PM

3. Many possible explanations

For instance, if they're not doing the sensible, healthy thing regarding Covid, the unvaccinated might not be doing other sensible, healthy things.

So maybe they also avoid other vaccines. Maybe they don't take their blood pressure medication consistently. Maybe they just engage in risky behavior more. Maybe they avoid doctors more than most.

Or maybe it's something else. I wonder if the unvaccinated are more likely to be uninsured, which of course is correlated with worse outcomes.

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Response to unblock (Reply #3)

Wed Oct 27, 2021, 07:02 PM

10. I was going to post something similar

But had framed my thoughts from the positive point of view: Maybe the vaxxers are more likely to be full participants in preventative medicine in general. Whatever the root cause(s) may be, be it access to health insurance that covers preventative measures, risk-averse temperament, etc.

As I recall, some of the controversy about the relationship between cardiovascular risk and use of hormone replacement therapy to minimize menopausal symptoms was confounded by similar factors. The data were from observational (rather than randomized) studies, and closer examination of the data showed that the women taking hormones for menopausal symptoms were otherwise healthier than those who didn't. The women who self-selected themselves into the "hormones" group tended to be otherwise more healthy than those who didn't.

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Wed Oct 27, 2021, 06:10 PM

5. Many of the non-vaccinated people I know

Smoke
Drink heavily
Drive badly
Eat unhealthy foods
Avoid other vaccines (flu, etc)
Avoid routine medical examinations and tests
In general, make poor life decisions


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Response to albacore (Original post)

Wed Oct 27, 2021, 06:12 PM

6. Correlation is not causation

 

Is the thing to keep in mind with stats like this.

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Response to Ron Obvious (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 27, 2021, 06:58 PM

9. It think the causation is more likely "People with sense making good choices tend to live longer."

The vaccine is but one example in a cornucopia of smart living.

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Response to Gore1FL (Reply #9)

Wed Oct 27, 2021, 08:07 PM

20. Precisely

I believe you have the correct answer here.

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Response to Gore1FL (Reply #9)

Wed Oct 27, 2021, 08:57 PM

22. Yes, but that would be the correlation n/t

 

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Wed Oct 27, 2021, 06:19 PM

7. why did they remove COVID-related deaths? wouldn't that increase the disparity even more?

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7043e2.htm

It's such a strange comparison to make. I can't find the full death count in the data, but you'd think that _with_ COVID-related deaths the disparity would be jaw-dropping!

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Wed Oct 27, 2021, 06:25 PM

8. It's the other behaviors

My guess is that people who are getting the flu shot take better care of themselves in general... diet exercise, not smoking,, etc. That's a lot of factors that would be hard to control for in a clinical study.

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Wed Oct 27, 2021, 07:07 PM

11. I wonder how much of the difference

is due to deaths caused by Covid-19 that were not reported as such.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #11)

Wed Oct 27, 2021, 07:11 PM

12. "Excess deaths"....I think the numbers-crunchers are gonna have a field day when/if this is over. nt

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Wed Oct 27, 2021, 07:39 PM

15. I wonder how many thousand fewer people died just from mask wearing...

Flu season last winter was a near non-event compared to most average years. I don't remember seeing any reports that more people got flu shots.

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Wed Oct 27, 2021, 07:44 PM

16. Thanks!

I need to share this with my brother. I had a conversation with him today about getting the booster (he's not old enough, anyway) and he doesn't see the point since he keeps reading about "breakthrough" cases. He is fully vaccinated, though, got his second (Pfizer) shot in May. *sigh*

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