Maybe someone can enlighten me re: Manchin and his demands.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

At what point do we say "enough!"

We bargain and give in, and let him run roughshod over us, while he whittles away the money we want to spend to help the American people.

I keep thinking that eventually we'll have nothing left.

I don't see him giving way to our wish list.

I am really angry at him and possibly at us for letting him do this to us.

Can anyone justify what he's doing?

[elleng]

1. I'm about there, Peg, so, after watching "Season of the Osprey"

Love Nature's documentary, Osprey: Sea Raptor, narrated by Emmy Award winning actor, Sean Bean

@ 8, on PBS, I may 'retire' to other things.

[Bleacher Creature]

2. I'm ready to say it, but if he walks away we get nothing.

I truly don't understand how killing paid leave and free community college wins him support in West Virginia, but he literally holds all the power.

[wellst0nev0ter]

12. Call his bluff

Make him vote down Biden's agenda and become a Democratic pariah.

But historically, he has always fallen in line when it counted. 538 gives Manchin a 100% rating in voting with Biden.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-congress-votes/joe-manchin/

The only times he breaks with the party is when he's given a hall pass, like with Kavanaugh or the $15 minimum wage hike.

When it comes to convicting Trump or a key legislation like this, he'll vote for the bill, then brag to his voters how he "saved money" by getting concessions.

[BlueJac]

3. I can't believe our biggest hurdle is dems...

Can't help but lose some hope for a better America!

[betsuni]

14. Without 100% obstruction from the opposition party, wouldn't be a problem.

How LBJ got civil rights passed, got Republican votes.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

4. Rotating villain.

[tirebiter]

5. Justifying the progressives holding back the the first infrastructure bill

Is hurting us worse. I say take that one, get re-elected and then do the rest with that momentum

[wellst0nev0ter]

13. That didn't work for ACA

They watered down the bill and delayed all the good stuff, and Democrats were unable to sell the ACA to the public and lost control of the House during the 2012 midterms.

We were only able to claw our way back to complete control of government last year.

Midterms are all about turnout. You turn out voters by doing things that are exciting, not by compromising.

[stillcool]

6. He must be subbing for Mitch

the torturous part of dragging out their act, they seem to enjoy. I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt, but there is no doubt. He's a perfect Mitch-toy. If he goes over to the other side, he'll just be another shithead among many. Maybe he's like a sleeper cell, a terrorist just waiting to destroy anything that does not directly benefit his handlers.

[wellst0nev0ter]

7. This is simply poor negotiating tactics

You don't walk into a room signaling that you'll acquiesce to any demand. That would be insane, you might as well just give the other side the whole farm.

You have a reservation point and you stick to it. Offer Manchinema two choices: vote for an non-ideal bill, or sink Biden's agenda and become permanent pariahs of the Democratic party.

That's how it worked for the stimulus bill. The Democratic leadership should have used the same strategy here.

[mvd]

8. I feel the same way, Peggy

I can’t justify it.

He is from a red state, but is preventing his constituents from benefiting from the bill. Even his opposition to the climate provisions stems from him being invested in coal interests and not being willing to help his state out of its coal dependency.

He and Sinema are troubling me a lot lately. It’s just amazing that we do so much compromising yet Manchin and Sinema can’t give an inch.

[Ferrets are Cool]

10. +1

[Bettie]

11. +1 and yet

we're supposed to just praise them and say "this is fine" as the world burns around us.

[Buns_of_Fire]

9. His demands as of 8 this morning, his demands as of noon,

or his demands as of cocktail hour? Today or yesterday?

He's just jerking everyone around at this point because he can.