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[traitorsgalore]

This message was self-deleted by its author (traitorsgalore) on Thu Dec 21, 2023, 03:39 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Lovie777]

1. They can be added later, like what happened with Obamacare . . .

[traitorsgalore]

7. Americans really hope so.

[greenjar_01]

16. ROFL

Well played.

[leftstreet]

52. LOL

[mucifer]

2. I guess we will find out in a half hour what Nancy says is in it

[Lunabell]

3. I agree.

And don't understand why these stupid asswipes still vote for republicans. I don't get it.

[Budi]

4. Lol. Well we're all just fking doomed. The Bill with Nothing in it!

Just a blank page.



Trust that No One is more disappointed than Joe Biden. He had a perfect vision for his people & crossed all the T's, dotted all the I's. Finanes, funding, distribution, & literally left no one out.

He'll accept today's bill & work harder to fillnin what was omitted.
Because he has always been a man of his word.

Let's hope Senate & Congress stops grandstanding for political position & just gets the rest of it pushed thru asap.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

9. Just flushing 1.75T down the toilet

And yet, the Progressive Caucus has come out supporting it. Who'da thunk it...

[Budi]

21. Well sure. Because 1.7 trillion$$$ is apparantly nothing.

As for the CPC, the final vote will tell the truth.
Tho it would be quite a feat to convince your home State that "Nothing is really better than something."
A quote some have stated in recent weeks.

None of this is certain till that final vote is cast.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

22. I'm figuring a couple loud oppositional members of the squad have clearance to vote no

But the quotes from Jaypal and AOC sound positive.

[Budi]

29. Don't care who it is. Go back home & explain why their No Vote was better than Something.

There is zero reason to oppose what's in this bill today.


Here for starters. Who would object to this?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215991771#post20

[AZSkiffyGeek]

31. I agree

But as long as we get 217 votes I don't care who votes no

[Budi]

33. No votes for the sake of spite & posturing when they could have voted FOR this.

It's their record. Good luck on the next campaign if they think no one will bring it to attention.

They really believe this is worth a NO Vote?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215991771#post20

[mcar]

5. So the things that aren't in it outweigh those that are in it?

How is pre-K education, assistance with child care, gobs of money to combat climate change, expansion of child tax credit & ACA being thrown under the corporate bus?

That's WTF good it is - and then some.

[peggysue2]

35. Thank You

When will we (Dems) stop shooting ourselves in the foot. Yes, all those things are included in the proposed legislation from recent reports.

That's not nothing.

What is nothing is allowing Republicans and the media to shape the narrative. We're living in a hyper-hostile political environment, a scenario where Dems are tying to govern, pass legislation while beating back Republican attempts to destroy EVERYTHING.

Pelosi is on now: free Pre-K, child tax credits extended, home health care, expanding the ACA for Medicaid patients (read earlier it would affect 7 million Americans), a half trillion dedicated to Climate Change. And infrastructure.

Is it as big and expansive as so many had hoped? No.

But this ain't nothing!

The bill, the actual text, is up and out for review. We're on the tarmac now, preparing for lift off.

[ProfessorGAC]

79. Must Be Even Worse Than You Describe.

Because the OP seems to suggest that what's in there has negative value.
Otherwise, anything in there would be better than having a bill with "nothing in it".
Only way the things missing make the whole bill nothing, is for what's in there to have a negative impact.
Of course, that's just silly.
There are nice steps forward, from what we know at this point.
Remember, there were tantrum liberals that turned on Obama because the ACA wasn't MFA.
This all or nothing POV annoys me, no matter the source! Annoying, but not unexpected.

[traitorsgalore]

85. As long as you get what you want huh?

Too bad for the 80% of Americans that need all the other things.

[tirebiter]

6. Safe bridges, clean water, good roads readied for EV, decent internet for everybody

For starters. Also gives something to run on in the midterms. Folks we are coming up on a virtual Gettysburg situation in the midterms. Better to win and move on,

[traitorsgalore]

10. Tons of money for the biggest contractors in each state

Maybe it'll trickle down on the rest of us that have no teeth and have to choose between food and medicine.

[MineralMan]

14. Well, big infrastructure contracts require big contractors.

However, the work desperately needs to be done, doesn't it?

[nolabear]

24. And people need the work. Spreading decently paying jobs around.

I’d be delighted to see some jobs that lead to other jobs. Better roads, rails, ferries, easier commutes and hope for lower housing prices as people can spread out. Clean energy creates some jobs compatible with those provided by oil and coal companies.

I know you know all this. I’m just thinking about FDR and how it created a whole new country.

[MineralMan]

36. Yes, that too.

Jobs. Jobs are good, and government contracts all require good pay for workers. So, they're good jobs as well.

That doesn't fix some old guy's teeth, of course. I know about being an old guy with bad teeth. As it turns out, I can probably afford to get the work done, and will early next year. Thanks, Mom and Dad. I inherited some money from them and will be using some of that to fix my teeth, once we've sold our previous house.

Medicare needs to cover dental, vision, and hearing. It just does. Old people need that care and often can't afford it. My Dad finally gave up, after losing both of his multi-thousand dollar hearing aids. So, he couldn't hear for shit. It was a problem, but he refused to pay for new ones. We tried to convince him, but in his 90s, he was still the same stubborn old fart he had been all his life.

What has changed, though, is that hearing aids are now available from multiple sources, and the prices are going down fast. They're cheap to make, actually, but are priced to support the audiologist lobby. All of them are based on a single chip design, with mic and transducers, which also don't cost much. So, now that you don't necessarily have to get them from your audiologist, the price will go down enough for most people to afford.

Eyeglasses are cheaper than ever, as well, and you can get an eye exam and a couple of pairs of glasses for pretty cheap these days. That industry's monopoly has been broken and spread much farther out.

Still, we need those things added to Medicare, for sure. And they will be. Sometime.

[nolabear]

39. Completely agree. I'm getting a lot of dental work

before Mr. Bear retires in another couple of years (I already am). It’s absolutely bizarre they don’t cover teeth, which are awful health risks. Looks like they’re acquiescing to hearing provisions.

[yellowdogintexas]

60. another point: Dental policies are not that expensive.

My daughter picked up a policy for herself, husband and daughter at an affordable rate.

If you can handle the waiting period for services beyond routine, they will be covered

Coverage varies: Major (crowns, extractions, etc) are usually covered at a lower percentage than fillings, deep cleanings and non routine X-rays. Some include orthodontics (flat $ amount) If you are exploring these plans, they are essentially identical except for the percentages and deductible if there is one.

Back in the day, I processed dental plans: they are very simple so there is very little after claim expenses (appeals, etc)

Your routine services should be covered from the get go.

Certain services are covered under some medical plans so they have to go through your medical plan then your dental can be filed after the medical is finished. Things like injuries, extraction of teeth which have metal fillings or crowns if you are having radiation to your head, impacted wisdom teeth. Even if not covered, medical must deny before dental will pick up

[tirebiter]

25. Brush your teeth.

[traitorsgalore]

83. LOL

Wipe your ass

[BannonsLiver]

82. Who do you think actually builds these kinds of things?

A nonprofit made up of altruistic chipmunks?

[WHITT]

32. Hate To Burst Your Bubble

but the EPA says there's only enough money in the bill to replace LESS THAN A THIRD of lead pipes, and experts say there's nowhere near enough money in the bill for 'universal broadband', so most of rural America will still be left behind,

[leftstreet]

34. +1

[aocommunalpunch]

57. "Historic!" n/t

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

74. Quick buy stock in companies that make orange construction barrels.

Porgy, izzat you?

[FalloutShelter]

8. With no deliverables...we

Lose the mid-terms. That simple. The Biden agenda is declared DOA… the Biden is weakened… we lose 2024. It is that simple.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

23. Nope. Nothing in this bill at all

1.75T is just getting set on fire. Not getting anything for it. Nothing. Nada. Not a sausage.

[Fiendish Thingy]

43. Without voting rights, Dem majorities are gone in 2022, and Trump reinstalled in 2024

It is that simple.

[FalloutShelter]

44. Who said we will not get voting rights?

I think after we pass BBB , there will be a filibuster carve out and we will pass the voting rights bill.

[Fiendish Thingy]

47. Hope you are right. Nt

[FalloutShelter]

51. Me too!

[uponit7771]

53. This 👆🏿👆🏿👆🏿 only 64% of democrats believe Voter Suppression is a problem (link)

... and don't get the EXTENT vote denialism and nullification changes elections

[Fiendish Thingy]

58. There are going to be a lot of shocked and disappointed, if not traumatized, DUers

The morning after the 2022 elections, if voting rights isn’t passed.

[uponit7771]

69. Amen !!

[stillcool]

11. a half a loaf is better than none...

and if you're really hungry a few slices will work. Ask the people who vote for Republicans why nothing gets passed. Better yet, get rid of Sinema and Manchin and enjoy your permanent Republican majority. Won't have to worry about what is good, because there won't be anything. Problem solved.

[MineralMan]

12. Are those the only things you think are good?

If so, then the bill isn't one you'd like. However, those never were the only elements of the bill.

Now, I need a bunch of dental work, and have for several years. I can't afford it, so it's an issue I can identify with. However, other elements of this bill are also important. Passing nothing gets us nothing. Passing something gets us something. So, I'll continue to wait.

[PortTack]

13. This!

[LakeArenal]

48. Biden is from the ask for everything; then negotiate something.

No side ever gets everything they want.

People act like Biden won’t start on the rest.

I wish we had an alert for fear mongering and doomsday opinions.

[womanofthehills]

71. Sorry but life is not a bowl of roses

You want to alert on people who worry. I definitely worry about 2024.

[LakeArenal]

77. Worry is not fear mongering. Just rather not lay your fears on others.

The sky is not falling. Sorry.

Maybe life is a bowl of roses. It’s just how you choose to look at it.

[spooky3]

15. Until we have at least 52 Senators and a comfortable margin in the House

As well as the Presidency, it’s highly unlikely we’ll get everything or even most things we want.

[CrackityJones75]

17. And a fitting screen name.

Go on then, spread that dissent.

[LakeArenal]

78. Yep!

[Hortensis]

18. Take it you're not raising children, concerned about the climate crisis,

or would benefit from any of dozens of other provisions important to millions of others.

Btw, last I heard, hearing was in.

[BlueJac]

19. Corporate power always wins

They have the money to make what ever they want they get! Same old story. When we get public funded elections then we get what we want! Simply logic!

[Johnny2X2X]

20. There's a ton great in it.

Here’s what’s in:

Universal Pre-K: Provide free Pre-K for 3- and 4-year-olds. The plan would expand access to 6 million children a year.

Child care: Limiting child care costs for families to no more than 7% of income for those earning up to 250% of state median income, expanding access to about 20 million children. Funding would last six years.

Enhanced child tax credit: The beefed up credit — which provides $300 a month for each child under age 6 and $250 a month for each one ages 6 through 17 — would be extended through 2022 for more than 35 million families. Households earning up to $150,000 annually would qualify for the enhanced payments. The credit would be made permanently refundable so the lowest income families would continue to qualify. The enhancement, which was part of the $1.9 trillion coronavirus relief package Democrats enacted earlier this year, is currently only in place for this year.

Earned income tax credit: The expanded earned income tax credit for 17 million low-wage childless workers would be extended through 2022. The boost, also part of the relief package, is only in place for this year. It nearly triples the maximum credit childless workers can receive, extends eligibility to more people, reduces the minimum age and eliminates the upper age limit.

Home health care: The framework calls for permanently improving Medicaid coverage for home care services for seniors and people with disabilities, with the goal of reducing extensive waiting lists. It also aims to improve the quality of caregiving jobs.
The child and pre-school provisions would cost $400 billion, while the tax credits would total $200 billion. The home health care measures would cost $150 billion.

Affordable Care Act subsidies: The enhanced federal premium subsidies would be extended through 2025. It would reduce the cost of coverage on the Obamacare exchanges, particularly for moderate-income and middle-class Americans. The boost, also part of the Democrats’ relief package, is set to expire after 2022.

Medicaid expansion: The framework calls for providing Affordable Care Act premium subsidies for low-income Americans in the 12 states that have not expanded Medicaid, enabling them to buy Obamacare policies with no monthly premiums. It would not create a federal Medicaid expansion program.

Medicare hearing benefits: Hearing services would be covered under Medicare.
The Affordable Care Act subsidies and Medicaid provisions would total $130 billion, while hearing benefits would cost $35 billion.

Climate change: Biden’s framework would deliver $555 billion in tax credits and investments aimed at combatting climate change. It would offer tax credits to families that install solar rooftops or buy electric vehicles, for example. The investments are aimed at providing incentives to grow domestic supply chains in solar and wind industries. The package also calls for creating 300,000 jobs by establishing a Civilian Climate Corps that works to conserve public lands and bolster community resiliency.
Other provisions that would address housing, nutrition, higher education and equity, as well as other investments, would cost $280 billion.

[Budi]

26. Appreciate your post. 👍 this is NOT nothing!

Thanks.

[Celerity]

41. Manchin just said that the $150K child tax credit cap is too high, said it like 90 minutes ago to Ax

He still wants it at only $60K max per family.

[Fiendish Thingy]

42. The $555B in climate section does less than the $160B CEPP in the original proposal

The CEPP would have met the 2030 emissions targets; the current framework does not.

[Hekate]

45. Thank you. The apocalyptic doom & gloom from certain quarters is getting to be a theme. nt

[Gidney N Cloyd]

68. +1

[Casady1]

27. Community college was

Bound to be lost. It should have been means tested. Dental and hearing was going to be jettisoned. Not that people don’t need it just it was going to be difficult to get done.

[Hekate]

46. Funny thing about means testing for education: we don't require it for K-12...

In California, community colleges are considered part of the “K-14 system.” I think the message is that it’s necessary these days. There are a slew of jobs that can be entered straight out of community college if you prepare for them there. A lot of my classmates did that back in the day.

CC is not “free” actually, but it’s orders of magnitude less expensive than entering the university system as a freshman. That’s what I did, and that also would have been the rest of my classmates. My subsequent degrees say which university I graduated from, not where I started.

I am not in favor of means testing for students to get “free” community college educations. Those who enroll have already shown they need it. Families who are obsessed with getting their high school graduates straight into prestigious universities as freshmen have shown they are willing and able to pay what it takes to do so — their kids are not going to go to the local community college. Just tax them anyway, as they are taxed to pay for K-12 public schools even if they send their kids to private schools.

[dsp3000]

28. What good is it? How about universal pre K, among other things?

even though it's being gutted there are still great provisions in here and not worth tanking the whole thing. we have the slimmest of majorities and need to work together.

[Dawson Leery]

30. Child Tax Credits, Family Leave, Pre-K

They are the top priorities and millions would feel the benefits in the run up to the midterms.

[mathematic]

37. "WTF" is good about reducing childhood poverty by half? Are you serious?

The child tax credit expansion passed by Democrats and signed by our President Joe Biden earlier this year reduced childhood poverty by over one half. Do you understand how monumental that is? This new bill extends the enhanced payments another year and makes the credit fully refundable permanently. This, by itself, is something that would be considered a major victory by progressives and this administration and it's only one part of the Build Back Better framework.

[Celerity]

38. You left out arguably the biggest complete strip-out: Paid Family and Medical Leave

Between the two bills Manchin and Sinema managed to gut out closing in on two-thirds of combined new spend.

Using Biden's original proposals' numbers it's dropped from $6.1 trillion combined to $2.3 trillion combined new spend.

Not just that, but huge entire headline Biden programmes (and campaign promises) are completely gone.

Biden compromised 15.2 times more (in terms of the combined dollar amount for both bills) than Manchin and Sinema did.

The Progressives compromised 30.8 times more than Manchinema did in terms of combined bills dollar amount.

That's not compromise, that is Coal and Curtsy going full Billy Big Bollocks/Bossy B and running deh road.

smdh

[Fiendish Thingy]

40. Actually, hearing aids are still in the framework, but dental and vision are out.

Of course, nothing is certain until Manchin and Sinema vote yes…

[lark]

49. Helping with child care & senior care is substantial.

If it only did that, it would certainly be a huge victory for the poor & working class. Yes, I'm sad that Mancin and Sinema took away so much needed stuff to protect their donors, but this is progress, albeit one step at a time.

[Bettie]

56. If those two things are in it

plus the child credit, we keep suburban women.

[uponit7771]

50. Booooo

[brooklynite]

54. So, vote it down to "send a message"?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

55. VoTe HaRdEr

[panader0]

59. unrec

[BlueCheeseAgain]

61. I understand the disappointment.

But what's left is one of the biggest expansions of social programs since the Great Society.

It is, as someone might say, a big f---ing deal.

[wellst0nev0ter]

62. Reminds me of the Obama stimulus bill in 2009

We needed to go big to fix the damages from the financial crisis, we compromised and went small instead.

Because the economy was too slow to recover, we got wiped out in the 2010 midterms.

I really wish people aren't so hasty to repeat history.

[betsuni]

64. That happened because Democrats only had 59 votes, needed Republicans

to pass the stimulus bill. Had to compromise with Arlen Spector, Olympia Snowe, and Susan Collins.

[wellst0nev0ter]

66. Don't make me tap the sign

We could have easily gotten rid of the filibuster during that time, and Obama knows it.

[betsuni]

63. Corporate-both-sides. You forgot "status quo" and "oligarchs."

[Hekate]

67. I'm sure there's a few other doom/gloom/apocalypse buzzwords he missed...

But it’s hard for me to remember them all from here under the bus.

[NurseJackie]

75. You're right about that!

A broken record, *click* record, *click* record, *click* record.

[GoodRaisin]

65. You forgot the cherry on top

Last edited Thu Oct 28, 2021, 05:52 PM - Edit history (1)

that isn’t there either.

[Patton French]

70. "It" isn't worth much until "it" becomes law. (n/t)

[womanofthehills]

72. We can't fund free community college but a student in Cuba can go to med school for free

And get their teeth worked on. Why is our country ok with this.

[LakeArenal]

80. Please supply links for these accusations. Thanks.

[NurseJackie]

73. LOL!

[Hortensis]

76. Another, From Mcar's post: "Lauren Underwood delivers for the people!"

Link to tweet

Traitorsgalore, hopefully the many, many gifts we're seeing become possible with our legislation will allow you to sleep with a smile on your face tonight.

[BannonsLiver]

81. Purity now! Purity forever!111

[traitorsgalore]

84. Looks like conservatives strongly disagree with me

Like I said, 80% of Americans want more affordable drugs, stronger Medicare and an education. Those aren't some "progressive" agenda items, they should be basics in the richest country in the world.