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Fri Nov 5, 2021, 04:35 PM

 

House Caucaus will wait for thr CBO Score also.




Kick that old can down the road one more time.

They'll wait for end November..or whenever.
Cuz "Nothing's better than something", right America?

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Reply House Caucaus will wait for thr CBO Score also. (Original post)
Budi Nov 2021 OP
lapucelle Nov 2021 #1
Fiendish Thingy Nov 2021 #5
lapucelle Nov 2021 #10
Budi Nov 2021 #12
questionseverything Nov 2021 #15
George II Nov 2021 #28
lapucelle Nov 2021 #90
lapucelle Nov 2021 #35
questionseverything Nov 2021 #41
lapucelle Nov 2021 #46
questionseverything Nov 2021 #57
lapucelle Nov 2021 #64
Fiendish Thingy Nov 2021 #44
lapucelle Nov 2021 #51
Fiendish Thingy Nov 2021 #53
lapucelle Nov 2021 #58
questionseverything Nov 2021 #52
Celerity Nov 2021 #47
lapucelle Nov 2021 #56
Celerity Nov 2021 #62
lapucelle Nov 2021 #65
DiamondShark Nov 2021 #93
The Magistrate Nov 2021 #2
Budi Nov 2021 #13
The Magistrate Nov 2021 #25
Dave says Nov 2021 #29
betsuni Nov 2021 #42
Celerity Nov 2021 #69
Dave says Nov 2021 #74
myohmy2 Nov 2021 #66
msfiddlestix Nov 2021 #68
Celerity Nov 2021 #70
jimfields33 Nov 2021 #26
Budi Nov 2021 #27
George II Nov 2021 #33
Budi Nov 2021 #38
lapucelle Nov 2021 #3
Hortensis Nov 2021 #24
lapucelle Nov 2021 #83
Hortensis Nov 2021 #84
lapucelle Nov 2021 #87
Hortensis Nov 2021 #88
berni_mccoy Nov 2021 #4
Budi Nov 2021 #7
berni_mccoy Nov 2021 #14
Budi Nov 2021 #34
Fiendish Thingy Nov 2021 #45
BradAllison Nov 2021 #61
George II Nov 2021 #81
Cha Nov 2021 #82
Fiendish Thingy Nov 2021 #6
Budi Nov 2021 #9
Fiendish Thingy Nov 2021 #48
awesomerwb1 Nov 2021 #16
Bettie Nov 2021 #17
Hortensis Nov 2021 #36
Fiendish Thingy Nov 2021 #49
lapucelle Nov 2021 #76
Fiendish Thingy Nov 2021 #79
lapucelle Nov 2021 #85
George II Nov 2021 #80
Fiendish Thingy Nov 2021 #86
George II Nov 2021 #91
Fiendish Thingy Nov 2021 #92
msongs Nov 2021 #8
Budi Nov 2021 #11
msongs Nov 2021 #23
Budi Nov 2021 #31
Cha Nov 2021 #63
George II Nov 2021 #75
Cha Nov 2021 #77
Cha Nov 2021 #54
msongs Nov 2021 #55
Cha Nov 2021 #60
Kath2 Nov 2021 #67
Cha Nov 2021 #71
Kath2 Nov 2021 #78
AZSkiffyGeek Nov 2021 #18
leftstreet Nov 2021 #19
Fiendish Thingy Nov 2021 #50
lapucelle Nov 2021 #94
awesomerwb1 Nov 2021 #20
JohnSJ Nov 2021 #21
Nixie Nov 2021 #30
Budi Nov 2021 #32
Cha Nov 2021 #40
Cha Nov 2021 #39
BlueLucy Nov 2021 #59
Hortensis Nov 2021 #72
JohnSJ Nov 2021 #22
Groundhawg Nov 2021 #37
bigtree Nov 2021 #43
BlueIdaho Nov 2021 #73
betsuni Nov 2021 #89

Response to Budi (Original post)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 04:41 PM

1. Who are the "six colleagues"? N/T

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 04:45 PM

5. Josh Gottheimer and the Sabotage Squad of safe centrist Dems. Nt

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #5)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 04:54 PM

10. Then why did Representative Jayapal release the statement? N/T

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #10)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 04:59 PM

12. Good answer. Umm..It's her own statement.

 

Glad you cleared that up.
👍

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #10)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 05:14 PM

15. I think basically she is telling these six conservadems

We didn’t want to vote yet anyway

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Response to questionseverything (Reply #15)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 05:36 PM

28. What the heck is a "conservadem"?

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Response to George II (Reply #28)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 10:27 PM

90. I think it's an invective for a moderate Democrat. N/T


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Response to questionseverything (Reply #15)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 05:57 PM

35. Why wouldn't they "want to vote yet anyway"? N/T

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #35)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 06:46 PM

41. Because once bif is passed, bbb is dead

N/t

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Response to questionseverything (Reply #41)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 07:01 PM

46. That's speculation, but even if true $1 trillion in infrastructure spending is still a win for Biden

and Democrats.

Here are the areas that would get major new spending:

Transportation projects: The bill would spend $110 billion in new funds for roads, bridges, and related projects. It also would commit $39 billion for public transit — which the Biden administration described as “the largest federal investment in public transit in history” — along with $66 billion for rail. It’d spend $42 billion on ports, airports, and related projects. And it would invest $11 billion in making America’s roads safer.

Reconnected communities: In the past few decades of road construction, many American cities have been physically divided by large highways, disproportionately affecting minority communities. The bill would spend $1 billion to reconnect many of these places.

High-speed internet: The bill would spend $65 billion with a goal of providing broadband internet to all Americans, further aiming to boost competition among providers and reduce the cost of high-speed internet to make it more affordable.

Electric vehicles: The bill would put $7.5 billion into a national network of electric vehicle chargers. It would also put $7.5 billion toward electrifying buses and ferries. These actions, the Biden administration said, are meant to create jobs but also help tackle global warming by decarbonizing major components of American transportation systems.

snip=========================================================================

Furthermore

[...]The bill would also make several other investments meant to combat climate change, including $28 billion for power grid infrastructure, resiliency, and reliability (in part to help expand the reach of clean energy) and $46 billion to, in part, mitigate damage from floods, wildfires, and droughts.

Clean drinking water: The deal would spend $55 billion on clean water infrastructure, particularly to eliminate lead pipes and other dangerous chemicals in today’s service lines.

Cleaning up the environment: The bill would also commit $21 billion to environmental remediation, particularly to clean up Superfund and brownfield sites, abandoned mines, and orphaned gas wells.

https://www.vox.com/22598883/infrastructure-deal-bipartisan-bill-biden-manchin

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #46)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 07:30 PM

57. 80% plus of that list is using public money

To make commercial investments profitable

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Response to questionseverything (Reply #57)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 07:56 PM

64. I trust the Democrats in the Senate. N/T

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #10)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 06:55 PM

44. Because Gottheimer's gang thinks they are being clever by delaying the BBB vote

The Sabotage Squad wants to hold off the vote on the BBB until they see the CBO markup; Jayapal said that’s fine, we’ll hold voting on both bills so they can pass together.

Once the house weighs in on the CBO markup, Manchin and Sinema must weigh in too and state whether they will commit to supporting BBB.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #44)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 07:09 PM

51. The Senate was always going to "weigh in" on whatever bill the House passes.

That's how it works.



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Response to lapucelle (Reply #51)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 07:12 PM

53. I'm not talking about voting on the bill, smartypants

Manchin and Sinema said they wouldn’t commit to supporting the bill until after they had reviewed the CBO markup- something the other 48 Dem senators did not stipulate as a condition of their support.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #53)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 07:40 PM

58. Every senator is going to weigh in on any bill that that the House sends it.

That's how the legislative process works.

At a senate Democratic caucus meeting in late October, one member was still stubbornly clinging to his number rather than accepting President Biden's number, so that needs to be worked out. And the SALT cap still needs to be adjusted.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #44)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 07:10 PM

52. To believe them about their bbb commitment would be silly

N/t

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 07:03 PM

47. here is a detailed post on it

As many as 7 moderate Democrats were not ready Friday morning to pledge their support for the BBB

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/democrats-eye-friday-vote-biden-s-spending-bills-still-wrangling-n1283353

WASHINGTON — After weeks of trying to build support among House Democrats for two massive spending bills, the party's leadership appeared set on Friday to finally take a vote — but ran into another roadblock and spent the morning trying to convince the final holdouts.

The House is aiming to pass the $1.75 trillion social safety net bill and $555 billion infrastructure bill, which was already approved by the Senate and would head to the president's desk for his signature.

But Friday's process slowed down moments after starting. Shortly after 8 a.m., House Republicans made a motion to adjourn — a common move by the minority used to stall the process. But four hours later, House Democrats still hadn't ended the vote, an abnormally long time to hold a vote.

Democrats stalled in order to give them more time to convince lawmakers to vote "yes" on the bills and secure more support for the massive funding legislation. As many as seven moderate Democrats were holdouts on the social safety net bill focused on President Joe Biden’s Build Back Better agenda, two sources told NBC News.





plus possibly Carolyn Bourdeaux

All of these were anti-Pelosi for speaker too, most are the usual Problem Solvers suspects



Edit to add breaking news

these 6 or 7 obstructionists have now maybe, maybe blown up the whole deal, as many others will not vote for the BIF now that these Problem Solvers types are trying to decouple the bills AGAIN




The following are Blue Dog members as well (6 of the 7)

Stephanie Murphy, Representative from FL-7
Carolyn Bourdeaux, Representative from GA-07
Ed Case, Representative from HI-01
Jared Golden, Representative from ME-02
Kurt Schrader, Representative from OR-05
Abigail Spanberger, Representative from VA-07



Here is what the Blue Dogs call themselves:

Centrists and Moderates

https://bluedogcaucus-murphy.house.gov/





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Response to Celerity (Reply #47)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 07:26 PM

56. Kathleen Rice is my representative.

I disagree with her on some things, but she is very popular in our district, and we work very hard to hold that Democratic seat in our purple (leaning red) county.

==========================================================================




Kathleen Rice is a Libertarian-Leaning Progressive

https://bit.ly/3BPtg2g

=========================================================================


And Kathleen Rice is a 100% "yes" vote for the Biden agenda.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-congress-votes/house/

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #56)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 07:48 PM

62. Rice is the only 1 of the 7 (and the others in the first group of 10 from months ago who played the

same games) who is NOT a Blue Dog nor a Problem Solver caucus member. (many are both).

She was very anti-Pelosi though, for years.

Long Island Democrat Leading The Revolt Against Speaker Pelosi

https://www.wnyc.org/story/long-island-democrat-leading-revolt-against-speaker-pelosi/

The biggest project of Kathleen Rice’s two terms in Congress has been trying to convince House Democrats to choose a new leader.

Democrats vote Wednesday on their choice to lead the House when they take control in January, and California Rep. Nancy Pelosi is expected to win another shot at Speaker. But Rice, a former Nassau County prosecutor, says Pelosi keeps a heavy hand on caucus decisions and has blocked other Democrats from advancing.

She says a vote for Pelosi is even more of a liability now, with a new majority built on moderate women from the suburbs.

“And I just don’t understand why you would want to jeopardize this hard-fought majority that we finally got,” Rice said to reporters at the Capitol this month.



Dem Rep. Kathleen Rice: Nancy Pelosi ‘Set Women Back’

https://www.thedailybeast.com/dem-rep-kathleen-rice-nancy-pelosi-set-women-back

Rep. Kathleen Rice (D-NY) on Wednesday slammed House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) over her response to the sexual misconduct allegations against Rep. John Conyers (D-MI). Rice said Pelosi “set women back and, quite frankly, our party, back decades,” and slammed the Democratic leader’s comments on Sunday in which she called Conyers an icon. “I think that we ceded the moral high ground on Sunday when our leader said on Meet the Press that John Conyers was an icon and we don’t even know who these women are, when she was fully aware that the woman in question was bound by a nondisclosure agreement,” Rice said.



Rep. Kathleen Rice votes against Nancy Pelosi for House leader

https://www.newsday.com/long-island/politics/spin-cycle/rep-kathleen-rice-votes-against-nancy-pelosi-1.12858495

WASHINGTON — Rep. Kathleen Rice bucked House Democratic leadership again Tuesday by being one of four House Democrats to vote for someone other than House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) for House speaker.

Rice, a Garden City Democrat in her second term, voted instead for Rep. Tim Ryan (D-Ohio) — who is not related to Speaker Paul Ryan — to continue her protest of the current leadership and the Democrats’ failure to determine why they have not won back the House majority.

In the speaker vote, Pelosi lost, as expected, to Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), who became House speaker in October 2015. In the party-line vote, 239 Republicans voted for Ryan and 189 Democrats voted for Pelosi.



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Response to Celerity (Reply #62)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 08:00 PM

65. I know who they are, and I know what districts they come from.

They represent their constituents. People who don't agree with representatives outside of their districts should call their own congressman or congresswoman to make their views known.

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Response to Celerity (Reply #62)


Response to Budi (Original post)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 04:42 PM

2. Six Obstructionists, Sir, Are The Problem, Not The Progressive Caucus

The little claque of wreckers ought to stand down and stop trying to direct the affairs of a Party which overwhelmingly rejects their positions and aims.

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 05:01 PM

13. Jayapal's Statement says OK. We'll wait for the "little claque of wreckers" then.

 

She agrees.

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Response to Budi (Reply #13)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 05:29 PM

25. Chicken Is Being Played, Sir

Both sides are saying the other can't get what it wants if they themselves do not get what they want. It doesn't work if you aren't willing to push it clear to the end, and sometimes there are head-on wrecks. There may be one now.

Since there's nothing to choose between techniques, it is worth considering to what end the sides are willing to press on to ruin over.

On the Biden bill, progressives have made already extravagant concessions towards the claque of moderate poseurs. The latter's reaction is always well, that's nice, what else are you gonna give me? You might as well be dealing with Paulie once he's your partner.

One side wants to pass legislation that will benefit the country and our Party, incorporating measures with wide popular support, and in accord with what Democratic voters desire.

One side is engaged in an unholy combination posturing and special interest protection. Some of them, like Manchin, campaign on being 'still one of those good Democrats', a title which must be earned by opposing policies widely popular among Democrats. Others, for which Sinema may serve as a flamboyant example, are simply dancing with the ones what brung 'em, and making sure donors get served what they want, come what may.

Pick a side.

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #25)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 05:37 PM

29. Don't these people have any sense of history?

The political gaming over the ACA - even while we had a large majority in the House and veto-proof* majority in the Senate - is what led to the blowout in 2010.

*”veto proof” until, near the end, Senator Kennedy died.

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Response to Dave says (Reply #29)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 06:51 PM

42. As Al Franken describes it, when Obama was sworn in, he had 58 Democratic votes, by April

Arlen Specter made it 59 until Al made 60 in July, but Ted Kennedy was sick so it was still 59. Kennedy died in August and Paul Kirk was appointed to his seat to make 60.

"The bad news is that we would need every one of those sixty votes. Which meant every single one of us had a veto. Good luck, Harry Reid! ... Still, the math was the math, and it forced us to make some tough compromises. A handful of moderate-to-conservative Democrats were opposed to the public option. which would have increased competition in the insurance market. Gone. Someone floated the idea of lowering the age of Medicare to fifty-five. Hmmm. ... Let's do it! But then Joe Lieberman announced on Face the Nation that he was against it. Gone. Finally, on Christmas Eve, we passed the bill through the Senate.

"In January, the not whip-smart Scott Brown, a Tea Party Republican, won the special election for Ted Kennedy's seat in Massachusetts. ... Once Brown took office in early February, that would be the end of our sixty-vote filibuster-proof supermajority. ... During the 2012 campaign, Republicans and their lackeys in the media liked to claim that Obama 'owned the Congress for the first two years. They did everything he wanted.' ... Chris Wallace of Fox News put it this way: 'The first two years he had a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate.' I think they kept using this talking point specifically to drive me insane. The truth is that we held a filibuster-proof majority from September 24, 2009 (when Paul Kirk was sworn in) until February 4, 2010 (when Scott Brown was sworn in) -- all of four months and ten days."

Same as now when 60 votes gives every senator a veto.

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Response to Dave says (Reply #29)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 08:10 PM

69. The watering down and stripping out of massive parts of the ACA is the template that

Manchin, Sinema, and the small group of renegade centrists/moderates/conservatives in the House are riffing off of for the last 8, 9 months or so.

It is one of their chief historical blueprints for wrecking, blocking, obstructing and gutting.

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Response to Celerity (Reply #69)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 08:28 PM

74. It is also a blueprint for losing seats, lots of them

Maybe public service is not their purpose. They serve instead the few who fill their coffers, both while in office and afterward.

Given the fascist atmosphere that we are in, we may be out of power for a generation.

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #25)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 08:06 PM

66. +1...

...

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #25)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 08:08 PM

68. ✔️ ✔️ ✔️ ✔️ ✔️

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #25)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 08:12 PM

70. +10000000000000000

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Response to Budi (Reply #13)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 05:31 PM

26. Yesterday it was said they had the votes!

Something in the communication is lacking. All this needs to be put of sight. The American public does not need to know every move.

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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #26)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 05:36 PM

27. They were on the TeeVee claiming VICTORY, even.

 

Now, it's maybe another month. Maybe.

Maybe that's what they meant by "VICTORY"

Biden's BBB policy that America voted for, is doa for yet another month. Biden gets no accolades till they say so. And America is last on the list to consider. It's not about America anymore. It's about driving around in their Masrrattis & Teslas.
Thanks for "Nothing"!



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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 05:42 PM

33. I'm not sure, but I don't think "Budi" is a sir.

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Response to George II (Reply #33)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 06:10 PM

38. 😳 you callin' me a girrrrlll

 





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Response to Budi (Original post)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 04:43 PM

3. Who are the "six colleagues"? N/T

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #3)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 05:27 PM

24. :) They're CONSERVATIVE Dems, Blue Dogs of course.

Rice calls herself "centrist" instead of conservative, and I didn't see her on the Blue Dog list with 6 others involved in this including Jim Costa, but she's being accused of taking Big Pharm money to vote against the provision to lower drug prices -- after she ran on supporting it. Even almost all of the conservative Blue Dogs voted for it.

https://bluedogcaucus-murphy.house.gov/members

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #24)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 09:14 PM

83. Kathleen Rice is my representative. She's very popular in our district,

and we work very hard to keep that seat blue. (We had a red wave on Tuesday in LI.)

Kathleen Rice doesn't call herself a centrist. She calls herself a progressive Democrat, and her record bears that out.

===================================================================



====================================================================



Kathleen Rice is a Libertarian-Leaning Progressive
https://bit.ly/3kaYyeh

====================================================================

And she's on board for President Biden's agenda.

====================================================================================



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Response to lapucelle (Reply #83)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 09:21 PM

84. You should know, and what you provided supports it.

I picked her comment up off the web, but of course one comment isn't a complete picture. I imagine lots of them claim to be centrist, or emphasize issue positions where that could be true, when talking to RW audiences.

Why did she vote against our provision to lower drug prices? Do we know why was she reported as aligning with these Blue Dogs to delay passage now?

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #84)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 09:59 PM

87. Rice runs on "fiscal responsibility", and when the amendment came up for a vote, $3.5 trillion

was the price tag for the reconciliation package.

Rice wants to wait for CBO scoring for the same "fiscal responsibility" reason.

Rice miscalculated badly when she voted "no" in committee on the prescription drug amendment. Lower prices for drugs trumps fiscal responsibility in our district. The drug price vote was unpopular here, and it will be an attack ad when she runs again.

Democrats had a VERY bad night Tuesday here on LI. I think the insistence on the CBO scoring was a function of those results.

As for Rice calling herself a centrist, I can understand that because "centrist" is the type of Democrat people vote for in this district.




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Response to lapucelle (Reply #87)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 10:09 PM

88. Well, I'm glad you like your congressman. Wish I could

say the same about ours; if anything he's worse than the Doug Collins he replaced.

I do wish she trusted her progressive colleagues' fiscal figures more. They aren't new, they've been worked over many times. The others using this reason are conservatives, and it's not that they're more responsible, it's that they want to be able to claim they reined in Democratic spending, or at least created a show of responsible delay.

Oh, well. Patience.

:hi

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Response to Budi (Original post)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 04:44 PM

4. This is bullshit. Blame the CPC at your own risk then.

 

Allow the fuckery from the right fuck the party over next year then.

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Response to berni_mccoy (Reply #4)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 04:49 PM

7. This statement is from Rep Jayapal, head of the CPC

 

Just passing along her statement.

Ask her about the late November delay, & the choice to shelve the whole thing till then. Again.

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Response to Budi (Reply #7)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 05:02 PM

14. Uh wrong. Manchin and Sinema have fucked the deal 6 ways to Sunday

 

How long did the House scramble to appease them.

Voting on both bills together was the AGREED UPON DEAL.

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Response to berni_mccoy (Reply #14)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 05:52 PM

34. Well who's dropping the whole thing today? Who's choosing to flip the middle finger to Biden today?

 

It ain't Manchin & Sinema.
They already voted to pass the BIF in the Senate 2 months aho.

"Nothing's better than something" they even told us. They said so!

Well, thanks for nothing then. Again & again & again. Guess we'll wait with nothing another month as they strip America of the promise of the President we all elected.

Biden delivered & wrote the most progressive policy plan for America in decades.
They don't really give a shit. Today they all flipped the bird to this President and to our Country.

There's no spinning it any other way than that.
They all need to be Primaried back where they came from.


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Response to Budi (Reply #34)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 06:58 PM

45. You are completely misreading this statement and overreacting to it.

Jayapal is the hero, not the villain.

She’s doing her best to ensure that Biden’s whole agenda gets passed, despite the efforts of the saboteurs. Whether it passes today or by Thanksgiving is not a BFD.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #45)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 07:43 PM

61. Budi's not a fan

"She's on MSNBC tooooo muuuuchhhhh"

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Response to BradAllison (Reply #61)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 09:06 PM

81. The Democratic Party isn't a football team, we don't have "fans".

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Response to BradAllison (Reply #61)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 09:10 PM

82. The OP is a "fan" of

Progress and Fighting Against Fascism.

Victory for Americans not hollow victories for those who obstruct.

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Response to Budi (Original post)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 04:46 PM

6. The CPC is the only thing that has preserved the BBB this long

If it weren’t for them, it would have been dead long ago.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #6)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 04:52 PM

9. Not so. They delayed the BIF 2 months ago when the Senate passed it.

 

Last week it was because of Text.
Now it's the CBO

Guess we'll see how it pans out come end of November.

It's always something ain't it.
Oh well. Thanks for nothing. Still.

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Response to Budi (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 07:03 PM

48. I think you're mixed up

The house, with Pelosi’s approval was never going to pass the BIF before the BBB.

Manchin and Sinema wanted to see the text of the BBB before committing to supporting it, so Jayapal said fine, we can wait, no problem.

Then Manchin and Sinema said they wouldn’t commit until they saw the CBO markup, and once again, Jayapal said, OK, we can wait for that too.

If a vote had been forced, both bills would have died two months ago.

Now, they are both still alive, despite the efforts of saboteurs in the Dem party to sink a significant portion of The President’s agenda.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #6)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 05:14 PM

16. Yeah right

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #6)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 05:14 PM

17. Right?

But, of course since conservadems are holding it up (the same crew who voted against Nancy Pelosi for speaker, interestingly enough).

The usuals are cool with that, but still angry at the CPC for ensuring that the BBB hasn't fallen by the wayside.

It would be funny if it weren't so transparent and sad.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #6)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 05:58 PM

36. That's extremely untrue. Who on earth but house Dems CREATED it?

Over 220 house Democrats were involved in creating and/or passing the house version of the BBB, also the BIL of course, including Jayapal's 30-member subfaction of the progressive caucus.

All that has been required of them now has been to stand united with the other 190 members to pass legislation their legislation the entirely of which by far most believe fervently in.

I'm afraid I have to agree with Budi that their goal seems to have been power-seeking, an attempt to use this spotlight create a public identity. They've accomplished that and gained NOTHING in these bills that others didn't do without them.

But most honest professional observers believe their internal brangling has been at the expense of the rest of the progressive caucus, the expense of the Democrats in congress, the expense of seats lost in this week's elections and put next year's midterms at risk, and of course risking the welfare of all Americans who all need these bills passed.

Let's just hope the blowback has been sufficient to have chastised them into getting back in line, at least long enough to pass these bills. Their seats will also be open in less than a year now.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #36)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 07:08 PM

49. Jayapal's "subfaction", the CPC, has 96 members, nearly half of the entire Dem caucus

And the rest of the moderates, minus 6-9 so-called “centrists” also support the two track strategy.

Your interpretation is not tethered to reality- if not for Jayapal and the progressives firm stance, both bills would be long dead, and Biden’s agenda with it.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #49)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 08:42 PM

76. And apparently a subfaction of the subfaction (20) are "no" votes.

That means 76 are "yes" votes. Perhaps what happened on Tuesday was their wake up call.

I'm not sure why anyone would think that the infrastructure bill would be "long dead" without the bills having been tied together as a package deal. The infrastructure bill would have been signed and enacted months ago, and we would have gone into the election with a win that demonstrated that Congress can actually work in a bipartisan way when Democrats are at the helm.

I trust President Biden and Speaker Pelosi in this process.

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #76)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 08:54 PM

79. If a vote on BIF had been forced two months ago, the CPC would have killed it

Just as Manchin and Sinema would have killed BBB if BIF had passed first.

The CPC, along with all but 6-9 of the other house Dems, has been ready, willing and able to pass the BIF, once the senate passed the BBB. It’s only Josh Gottheimer and his sabotage squad, along with Manchin and Sinema, who have been pushing for the house to pass the BIF first. Everyone else was aligned with the two track strategy.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #79)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 09:24 PM

85. I'll wait to see what happens tonight, but it may turn out

that the two track strategy was a bad idea indeed, that fewer members are aligned with it after Tuesday, and that not many Democratic members are willing to own a a "no" vote on a popular, bipartisan infrastructure bill.



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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #6)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 09:03 PM

80. Not true.

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Response to George II (Reply #80)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 09:44 PM

86. Absolutely, verifiably true

If a vote in the BIF had gone forward and passed, BBB would be dead- no compromises, no negotiations, nothing.

Remember, it was only after the CPC balked at voting on the BIF at the end of summer that Manchin and Sinema even started to negotiate. Before that, they had been either silent or completely opposed to BBB.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #86)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 10:54 PM

91. Okay, then verify it.

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Response to George II (Reply #91)

Sat Nov 6, 2021, 12:01 AM

92. Just follow the trail of Manchin headlines from this summer, opposing the BBB

Along with Jayapal’s quotes supporting both bills, followed by the aborted vote at the end of summer.

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Response to Budi (Original post)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 04:50 PM

8. hawaii has a dem rep who is a repub wannabee. wonder if he is one obstructionist? nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 04:56 PM

11. What's his name? Just for future ref, ya know.

 

I guess they figure if this BBB can be dragged into the new year it'll be a good set-up for them in Campaign 2022.

This isn't about doing the best for America on behalf of Biden's incredible BBB,. It's about looking out for themselves 1st.

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Response to Budi (Reply #11)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 05:26 PM

23. ed case. he already has a progressive primary opponent nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #23)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 05:40 PM

31. Well Ed Case. Hope the voters see the light shining on all the con artists preening for the Media.

 

I'll read up on Mr Ed Case.
Thanks

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Response to Budi (Reply #31)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 07:55 PM

63. Rep Kai Kahele's Tweet..

My Rep from Hawaii



msongs just posted this link that is an interesting report on Ed's Case.. and his primary challenger Sergio Alcubilla!

A Pres Biden Dem..

Snip//

I am not sure how much of a campaign issue BBB will be, come next August when the primary rolls around. But Alcubilla says Biden’s plan “is at the very heart of my campaign for Congress.”

Chad Blair: Ed Case Draws A Challenger From The Left

https://www.civilbeat.org/2021/10/chad-blair-ed-case-draws-a-challenger-from-the-left/

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Response to Cha (Reply #63)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 08:37 PM

75. Cha, leave it to a Representative from Hawaii to make some sense of this!!!



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Response to George II (Reply #75)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 08:43 PM

77. Damn Straight, George.. Mahalo!

The Rep who Won Gabbard's District.. how lucky are we, too!

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Response to msongs (Reply #23)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 07:13 PM

54. Who is the Primary

opponent..? Mahalo!

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Response to Cha (Reply #54)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 07:16 PM

55. here's a link...

Newcomer Sergio Alcubilla hails from the liberal side of the Democratic Party. Can he upset the congressional incumbent?


https://www.civilbeat.org/2021/10/chad-blair-ed-case-draws-a-challenger-from-the-left/

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Response to msongs (Reply #55)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 07:42 PM

60. Wow.. Hawaii is Blue..

and Elects Dems.. like Rep Kai Kahele.. who move Democratic Values Forward.. Not Obstruct!


TY for the article it's very informative.. Maybe Sergio Alcubilla can use Case's Obstruction against him?

Oh I just read this part!..

Snip//

I am not sure how much of a campaign issue BBB will be, come next August when the primary rolls around. But Alcubilla says Biden’s plan “is at the very heart of my campaign for Congress.”

TY!

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Response to Cha (Reply #60)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 08:07 PM

67. Mazie Hirono is excellent.

True Blue, my dear.

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Response to Kath2 (Reply #67)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 08:13 PM

71. And, so is Sen Brian Schatz HI D!

Mahalo, Kath!

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Response to Cha (Reply #71)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 08:47 PM

78. Indeed!

Hawaii is BLUE. So excellent!

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Response to msongs (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 05:18 PM

18. I believe I saw someone from Hawaii among the six

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Response to msongs (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 05:20 PM

19. Yes. Ed Case n/t

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Response to msongs (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 07:08 PM

50. Yes he is. Nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #8)

Sat Nov 6, 2021, 09:51 AM

94. He's not one of the obstructionists. He voted for President Biden's bill last night.

He's not one of the six Democrats who voted with the Republicans and against President Biden.

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Response to Budi (Original post)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 05:21 PM

20. I'm tired of them all

The caucus from the far left, and the caucus of the "moderates".

They bark like they're all the big dogs but they're just a minority of scared chihuahuas.

GIMME GIMME GIMME. They're acting like spoiled brats. I want it ALL or blow it all up!

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Response to awesomerwb1 (Reply #20)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 05:24 PM

21. +++

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Response to awesomerwb1 (Reply #20)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 05:39 PM

30. +1000, couldn't have said it better.

Thank you.

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Response to awesomerwb1 (Reply #20)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 05:42 PM

32. Its not even about what's in that BBB anymore.

 

The great VICTORY is in themselves.

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Response to Budi (Reply #32)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 06:22 PM

40. Hollow "victory".

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Response to awesomerwb1 (Reply #20)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 06:21 PM

39. Touche'!

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Response to awesomerwb1 (Reply #20)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 07:42 PM

59. I'm really hoping to trash all of it and put our energy into voting rights.

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Response to BlueLucy (Reply #59)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 08:15 PM

72. That's shocking just to say. You wouldn't really choose to hurt

millions of people, some in bad trouble, kill creation of millions of good new jobs, and abandon fighting climate change? Plus a few paragraphs of other life-changing initiatives? I imagine you've been distracted into losing track of what's in our bills. This makes me think what it'd mean, because if someone's saying it here, others elsewhere would mean it.

Think what deliberately betraying all the Americans who voted for their reps to come through with their campaign promises would do. Could never happen, of course, but that'd be so enormous and crazy a betrayal that I'd have to trash those people and anyone who supported them and leave for the new party that millions like me would form.

As for the idea that politicians who would betray their trust and promises to an entire nation could somehow be the right stuff to rescue democracy? No one would believe in them, and it seems all too likely those creatures would trash that also in some similar bizarre dysfunction.

Not to worry, though. Our real people in this world are neither crazy nor depraved.

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Response to Budi (Original post)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 05:25 PM

22. They might as well just go home and wait until the midterms with what they are accomplishing here

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Response to Budi (Original post)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 06:01 PM

37. You realize its law to get the CBO score first, right?

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Response to Budi (Original post)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 06:55 PM

43. they 'agreed'

...but the bills are being held hostage by the self-identified 'moderates' who haven't said they intend to vote for both bills, unlike the progressives who've all said they ultimately intend to vote for both bills.





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Response to Budi (Original post)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 08:20 PM

73. Do any of these show ponies understand how fucking livid

Rank and file Democrats are over the metaphorical dick swinging act going on in DC? I am so pissed I’m about to cut off all my political giving and sit on my hands when it’s door knocking time. At this point I’m thinking they can just go fuck themselves until they start thinking more about helping Americans and less about their stupid party games.

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Response to Budi (Original post)

Fri Nov 5, 2021, 10:16 PM

89. I'm not even trying to understand what's going on. Too complicated keeping track of

what the too-much-no-vote and not-enough-no-vote people are doing.

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