General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAssistant DA in the Rittenhouse trial shows how not handle a gun.
During closing arguments, assistant DA Thomas Binger has his finger on the trigger as he sweeps the spectator section of the court with Rittenhouses AR-15.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,147 posts)Tomconroy
(7,611 posts)Calista241
(5,584 posts)Steelrolled
(2,022 posts)Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)Steelrolled
(2,022 posts)Bucky
(53,795 posts)MichMan
(11,790 posts)Wisconsin statute
941.20? Endangering safety by use of dangerous weapon.
(1)? Whoever does any of the following is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor:
(a) Endangers another's safety by the negligent operation or handling of a dangerous weapon.
(b) Operates or goes armed with a firearm while he or she is under the influence of an intoxicant.
(bm) Operates or goes armed with a firearm while he or she has a detectable amount of a restricted controlled substance in his or her blood. A defendant has a defense to any action under this paragraph that is based on the defendant allegedly having a detectable amount of methamphetamine, gamma-hydroxybutyric acid, or delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol in his or her blood, if he or she proves by a preponderance of the evidence that at the time of the incident or occurrence he or she had a valid prescription for methamphetamine or one of its metabolic precursors, gamma-hydroxybutyric acid, or delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol.
(c) Except as provided in sub. (1m), intentionally points a firearm at or toward another.
Note : (1m) changes the crime to a felony if the weapon is pointed at police, fire, game warden, ambulance etc. This statute above does not apply to self defense situations
Sympthsical
(8,936 posts)They have law enforcement in the room who go over the gun every time anyone in the court wants to handle it.
But it's still piss poor practice to point it around with a finger on the trigger.
MichMan
(11,790 posts)Clearly states that the mere act of pointing it by itself constitutes a misdemeanor.
[link:https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/941/iii/20|
Sympthsical
(8,936 posts)My assumption would be there are exemptions to these things. But, that's something lawyers and this guy's boss would have to hash out if they had a mind to. Which I'm guessing they probably don't.
Response to MichMan (Reply #9)
Post removed
Decoy of Fenris
(1,954 posts)Sympthsical
(8,936 posts)If there are knowledgeable gun people on the jury - and it is Wisconsin - hoo boy.
I don't know what the man was thinking.
LiberatedUSA
(1,666 posts)Sympthsical
(8,936 posts)If anyone was holding a gun in the same room as me, my attention would be rapt.
crickets
(25,896 posts)DVRacer
(707 posts)As a victim of domestic violence I crawled out of my skin when the other prosecutor said Everyone takes a beating sometimes I dont get as upset anymore its been 10 years since I divorced her but that took me right back immediately.
Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)Hope you're doing all right.
Sympthsical
(8,936 posts)My jaw was on the floor.
I don't know what this man was thinking during the rebuttal. I think he lost his composure because the defense poked at all his ego sensitive parts in their closing. Out of all the moments of the trial where I wanted to see the looks on the jury's faces, that has to be top three. Could you imagine a domestic abuse situation with a prosecutor making that argument?
Then he started explaining why a skateboard wasn't a weapon.
It's a shame, because the initial prosecution closing by Binger was actually pretty well done, I thought. Then that rebuttal came. It was certainly a last impression to leave the jury with. I'll give it that.
maxsolomon
(32,992 posts)Obviously, Rittenhouse is now innocent of all charges.
kcr
(15,300 posts)That would have been totally different.
maxsolomon
(32,992 posts)he pulled the trigger when a crazy person threw a bag of underwear at him. he overreacted.
what followed was a consequence of that overreaction. huber and grosskruetz were defending themselves from what they perceived as an active threat.
I was pointing out how ridiculous Kyle's defenders are in this thread. If he'd actually pulled the trigger, then claimed he was afraid, they'd have to support him.
Devil Child
(2,728 posts)Bucky
(53,795 posts)I'm really hoping for a hung jury here. Either a conviction or an acquittal is gonna lead to more armed RWNJs on the streets of Wisconsin looking for an excuse. Trials should be dispassionate and even a little boring.
Our country needs a little more boring.
inthewind21
(4,616 posts)Point it AT them. He demonstrated how Rittenhouse dropped the fire extinguisher he had so he could bring the gun up and point it at people. The defense did the same thing in rebuttal. The vapors and fainting sessions are a bit over the top. Clearly there's not many here who have ever been in the court when a murder trial is going on.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)The rifle was checked out by the official before handing to prosecutor.
Hero, it's sad if that is your main criticism of this trial.
Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)How comforting. Alec Baldwin's gun was checked out as well. That didn't turn out so well, did it?
You never break the 4 rules. Never.
Hero, it's sad if that is your main criticism of this trial.
Key word: If.
Decoy of Fenris
(1,954 posts)Tommy Carcetti
(43,085 posts)Like clockwork.
Decoy of Fenris
(1,954 posts)In this case, I know guns. And if I saw -anyone- displaying what this guy was doing with that gun, I'd call them out on it, and have done so in the past. Guns aren't toys, and this dipshit needs to learn that.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Decoy of Fenris
(1,954 posts)As a gunner, I say that freely; That sort of shit is far scarier than the worst of any Trumplet, armed or not.
Lack of basic firearm discipline should never be excused, and he's violating at least three different laws doing so. He should be brought up on charges.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Decoy of Fenris
(1,954 posts)Clearly a danger to society, he needs to be locked up behind bars for the rest of his life.
XD Okay, but seriously, this sort of shit shouldn't fly. People die when idiots act like this Anyways, I gotta bounce but didn't want to leave you in the lurch, good to see you about. o7 Catch you on the next one.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale
?crop=1290%2C726%2C0%2C440&resize=1290%2C726&order=crop%2Cresize
Decoy of Fenris
(1,954 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Decoy of Fenris
(1,954 posts)Who do you fear more? No bullshit "But but but", a gunner with a finger on the trigger or one with a finger off the trigger, which is more dangerous? C'mon brother, it's common sense, especially in your line of work. The one that's angling to fire is going to be the one fondling the trigger. You can't in good faith argue otherwise.
There's a reason it's a part of the "Four Rules" not to put your finger on the trigger; Because if you do, you might kill someone you don't mean to.
This legislator, whatever side he's on, fucked up and deserves to get called on it.
xmas74
(29,658 posts)Now imagine how the crowd felt when Rittenhouse had his weapon-a weapon that everyone knew was loaded and had already been used to kill one person.
Decoy of Fenris
(1,954 posts)xmas74
(29,658 posts)That running might be hard to accomplish.
Keep making excuses.
Decoy of Fenris
(1,954 posts)No "excuse" there, plenty of people had ample time to retreat, including Rittenhouse (As he should have and on several occasions did, as proven by physical evidence and recordings.)
xmas74
(29,658 posts)Every time a gun is involved.
Decoy of Fenris
(1,954 posts)For instance, I knew, for a fact, Zimmerman would get off. I also know for a fact that Rittenhouse will get off. Likewise, I know that Arbery's killers will NOT get off; They'll go to jail, and I'm willing to bet 15/20 if not more for it, because that's what the law says. Just like the rest.
When it comes to criminal activity, I hold nothing sacred and will eagerly blow the whistle on Gun Nuts, because the worst of them are lethal cancers on society; It just so happens that people who are against guns are also ignorant rubes as a general rule. In Rittenhouse's case, Self Defense reigns supreme and I believe it will do so whenever the jury renders their verdict. If I'm wrong, so be it, and I'll be happy for it; The kid is a scumbag and deserves to spend some time behind bars. But if I'm right, I have expected nothing less, and hopefully a few easily-duped overly-parasympathetic ignoramuses may have been deterred from being overly connected to something far more important than them.
ProfessorGAC
(64,425 posts)You are dealing from opinion after opinion, and making multiple conjectures.
Then you conveniently ignore your own words and declare you only deal in facts.
That's uncompelling & intellectually lazy!
Tommy Carcetti
(43,085 posts)But we all have our hobbies, I suppose.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Fascinating.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)But okay, man.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Devil Child
(2,728 posts)Always point the muzzle in a safe direction. A safe direction is a direction where the bullet will travel and harm no one in the event of an unwanted discharge. There are no accidental discharges with firearms, only unwanted discharges.
Be certain of your target and what's beyond it. Positive target identification is a must. To shoot at something you only think is a legal target is gambling. In the case of human injury, that means gambling with human life. You must be absolutely certain and correct in judgment before deciding to shoot. Otherwise, it's reckless behavior. In addition to identifying the target, a shooter must know that a safe backstop for their bullet is present in every shooting situation.
Keep your finger outside the trigger guard until ready to shoot.
4 rules are to be followed at ALL times. Whenever a firearm changes hands it is must be re-checked to verify safety at ALL times. There is no such thing as an accidental discharge, only negligent.
MichMan
(11,790 posts)BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)I hadnt forgotten as it turns out. Good to know.
Devil Child
(2,728 posts)They are kept simple by design, easier to retain and ingrain.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)My dad taught me to shoot various handguns. He was VERY strict about gun safety.
Devil Child
(2,728 posts)Both my mother and father were instrumental in firearms safety. My father is a Vietnam war combat vet, when we were very young he took us for our first firearms instruction, did the 4 rules run-down, then shot and exploded a watermelon. He did this to reinforce the finality of what a firearm does. It worked. My siblings and I have never forgotten and always treat firearms with respect when handling or operating them.
Strictness and consistency go a long way.
Wishing you well this day BlackSkimmer.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Just no. I can only imagine the conversations between them when we werent around.
However, she was furious if she saw anyone point even a play gun at someone. My sister (who never listened to rules) actually shot a kid with a BB gun. I still remember that day. My mother treated him, while calling the wife of a doctor who lived across the street. The wife was a nurse and arrived promptly, the doctor arrived soon after.
Ironically the BB gun belonged to THEIR daughter, who was my sisters best friend. What a day that was.
Everyone was fine in the end, but I had never seen my mother that angry.
Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)1. Treat all guns as if they are loaded.
2. Never point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire.
4. Be sure of your target and what is behind it.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)I saw that recent video of that moron Damon Annette, and it made me wonder how often he points his toys at someone.
George II
(67,782 posts)...and THEN the courtroom?
Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)Period.
George II
(67,782 posts)....that he didn't do it just like Rittenhouse.
Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)but a "big whoop" as long as there isn't a negligent discharge?
If he DIDN'T I'm sure someone would complain...that he didn't do it just like Rittenhouse.
Anyone making such a complaint would be an idiot.
George II
(67,782 posts)Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)When someone points an AR-15 at someone with their finger on the trigger, it merits nothing but a "big whoop" as long as there isn't a negligent discharge?
rockfordfile
(8,682 posts)Rittenhouse was a 17yr old loser with a 7yr old mind. His parents were just as much losers for letting that pos go to Wisconsin.
Tommy Carcetti
(43,085 posts)So did Rittenhouse.
llashram
(6,265 posts)sarisataka
(18,220 posts)There were very many people, even those who have never fired/handled a gun, say you never under any circumstances point a gun at someone under any circumstances. This week, we'll there are exceptions...
I don't know why they don't use a flag safety in the courtroom. They are a couple bucks at Walmart. The safety fills the chamber and visually let everyone know the gun isn't loaded.
SYFROYH
(34,127 posts)PDT69
(37 posts)crimes involving firearms should learn a little about those firearms???
As someone who has had guns pointed at him, I'm not a fan.
Zeitghost
(3,796 posts)That a chamber lock wasn't being used or at a minimum the bolt was not removed. Is that normal in a courtroom?
LetMyPeopleVote
(144,005 posts)Link to tweet
With the jury to be winnowed down from 18 to 12 via a lottery on Tuesday, Brooklyn Law School Assistant Professor Alexis Hoag told the "New Day" host: "The prosecution really delivered."
"I think they used the weekend well to bring their narrative together," Hoag continued. "What they did was deliver a compelling story arc, that's what jurors want to hear. They want the evidence, they want the witnesses to make some sort of sense."
"Their overarching narrative was you had this person coming in from outside, not defending their own property, not defending their own family, nor their home, bringing a gun, looking for a fight," she continued. "Then they peppered it with the highlights of evidence jurors saw, reinforcing repeatedly their storyline and the story arc. We saw the drone footage. We saw it when Rittenhouse shot, initially, Mr. Rosenbaum. He was on the ground, he wasn't lunging or attacking. Of course, that was the defense's characterization, so the prosecution actually really delivered."