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Assistant DA in the Rittenhouse trial shows how not handle a gun. (Original Post) Dial H For Hero Nov 2021 OP
Saw that. Basic and preventable. WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2021 #1
I read about that! Tomconroy Nov 2021 #2
He literally just did exactly what Alec Baldwin just did, and someone died when Baldwin did it. Calista241 Nov 2021 #3
Hopefully he had someone more competent than the movie studio to check the gun beforehand. Steelrolled Nov 2021 #13
Quite likely so. Regardless, one shouldn't break the 4 rules of firearms safety. Dial H For Hero Nov 2021 #15
+1 Steelrolled Nov 2021 #17
+1 with a long clip Bucky Nov 2021 #48
If pointing a weapon at someone is illegal, why isn't he being charged? MichMan Nov 2021 #4
The gun is checked and re-checked before it's handled Sympthsical Nov 2021 #7
The statute doesn't exempt unloaded weapons MichMan Nov 2021 #9
I can't imagine anything would be done about it Sympthsical Nov 2021 #11
Post removed Post removed Nov 2021 #12
That is an egregious, ignorant error in fundamental and basic firearms safety. N/T Decoy of Fenris Nov 2021 #5
When I saw that, I went, "No no no no no!" at the TV. Sympthsical Nov 2021 #6
What do you think the chances at least 1 of the 12 caught it? LiberatedUSA Nov 2021 #8
Speaking only for myself Sympthsical Nov 2021 #10
+1000000 crickets Nov 2021 #72
Between that and DVRacer Nov 2021 #14
I hadn't heard that he'd said that. Unbelievable. Dial H For Hero Nov 2021 #16
He literally argued Rittenhouse should've taken the beatings Sympthsical Nov 2021 #27
What an amateur! maxsolomon Nov 2021 #18
Well, see, he didn't actually pull the trigger to "defend himself" kcr Nov 2021 #33
i am not on Team Kyle maxsolomon Nov 2021 #54
I know kcr Nov 2021 #75
I wonder how jurors felt having the prosecutor point an AR at them? Devil Child Nov 2021 #19
Making the jurors understand what feeling threatened is like is, frankly, bad legal strategy Bucky Nov 2021 #50
He didn't inthewind21 Nov 2021 #74
So prosecutor is not some gun loving pissant that poses in front of mirrors with his finger extended Hoyt Nov 2021 #20
Nope He's just someone who broke 3 of the 4 rules of firearms safety while the nation was watching. Dial H For Hero Nov 2021 #21
Almost like the guy had no idea what a gun was, or how to handle one. Disgraceful troglodyte. n/t Decoy of Fenris Nov 2021 #22
Funny how you always just pop up for certain posts. Tommy Carcetti Nov 2021 #24
I drink and I know things. Decoy of Fenris Nov 2021 #25
I'd trust him more than some pissant with a gun or two strapped to their body walking down street. Hoyt Nov 2021 #29
Given how he's holding the gun, and knowing what I know, I'd be terrified of him. Decoy of Fenris Nov 2021 #30
No, gun toters like Rittenhouse are the problem. Not some prosecutor who is not a gun-humper. Hoyt Nov 2021 #31
Sorry mate, this guy's deranged. Needs to be imprisoned and have his 2nd Amendment taken away. Decoy of Fenris Nov 2021 #36
And gun-humpers with straight fingers aren't a danger to society. Hoyt Nov 2021 #38
Nope, not one bit. Finger on trigger; Intent to kill. Finger off trigger; No harm no foul. n/t Decoy of Fenris Nov 2021 #61
About what I would expect. Hoyt Nov 2021 #63
Okay, so let's be honest with one another, mate. Decoy of Fenris Nov 2021 #69
You'd be terrified. xmas74 Nov 2021 #37
You'd think they'd run away, if they felt their lives were in danger. I guess they didn't. n/t Decoy of Fenris Nov 2021 #62
Or the crowd was close enough together xmas74 Nov 2021 #66
Except they weren't packed that tight. Pure and simple fact. Decoy of Fenris Nov 2021 #67
Same old excuses you offer xmas74 Nov 2021 #70
Oh no, friend. I only offer "excuses" when "excuses" are facts. Decoy of Fenris Nov 2021 #71
"You'd Think They'd Run Away" Is NOT A Fact ProfessorGAC Nov 2021 #73
Yeah, that's the least of my concerns. Tommy Carcetti Nov 2021 #42
I feel comfortable knowing you wouldn't put your finger on the trigger of your daily toter. LMAO. Hoyt Nov 2021 #26
Not familiar with the concept of harm reduction, I see. Act_of_Reparation Nov 2021 #55
Anyone carrying a gun in public isn't interested in "harm reduction" either. Hoyt Nov 2021 #59
Not relevant. Act_of_Reparation Nov 2021 #64
What are the four rules? BlackSkimmer Nov 2021 #28
4 rules Devil Child Nov 2021 #32
I've never owed a gun and even I know this MichMan Nov 2021 #34
Thanks. I remember learning them as a child. BlackSkimmer Nov 2021 #46
You're most welcome, happy to be of help Devil Child Nov 2021 #51
Absolutely. I learned to shoot a rifle at summer camp. BlackSkimmer Nov 2021 #52
Interesting you mention the strictness of dad Devil Child Nov 2021 #58
Thanks! My mother would have NOTHING to do with guns. BlackSkimmer Nov 2021 #60
Here they are: Dial H For Hero Nov 2021 #35
Everyone should learn these. BlackSkimmer Nov 2021 #49
You don't think it was double and triple checked before they brought it into the courthouse.... George II Nov 2021 #40
It likely was. You still don't put your finger on the trigger and point it at a bunch of people. Dial H For Hero Nov 2021 #41
Well he did and it didn't go off. If he DIDN'T I'm sure someone would complain.... George II Nov 2021 #43
So when someone points an AR-15 at someone with their finger on the trigger, it merits nothing Dial H For Hero Nov 2021 #44
Have you watched Rittenhouse's attorney in action? George II Nov 2021 #45
I stand by my statement, and repeat my question. Dial H For Hero Nov 2021 #47
You're sounding stupid about this situation. rockfordfile Nov 2021 #68
Well, okay then. Tommy Carcetti Nov 2021 #23
born to lose llashram Nov 2021 #39
Interesting how a week ago sarisataka Nov 2021 #53
I can't believe there isn't a zip tie through the action. Jesus H Christ. SYFROYH Nov 2021 #56
Maybe prosecutors that prosecute... PDT69 Nov 2021 #57
I'm astonished Zeitghost Nov 2021 #65
It sounds like the Prosecution had a good closing LetMyPeopleVote Nov 2021 #76

MichMan

(11,790 posts)
4. If pointing a weapon at someone is illegal, why isn't he being charged?
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 10:19 AM
Nov 2021

Wisconsin statute

941.20? Endangering safety by use of dangerous weapon.

(1)? Whoever does any of the following is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor:
(a) Endangers another's safety by the negligent operation or handling of a dangerous weapon.
(b) Operates or goes armed with a firearm while he or she is under the influence of an intoxicant.
(bm) Operates or goes armed with a firearm while he or she has a detectable amount of a restricted controlled substance in his or her blood. A defendant has a defense to any action under this paragraph that is based on the defendant allegedly having a detectable amount of methamphetamine, gamma-hydroxybutyric acid, or delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol in his or her blood, if he or she proves by a preponderance of the evidence that at the time of the incident or occurrence he or she had a valid prescription for methamphetamine or one of its metabolic precursors, gamma-hydroxybutyric acid, or delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol.

(c) Except as provided in sub. (1m), intentionally points a firearm at or toward another.

Note : (1m) changes the crime to a felony if the weapon is pointed at police, fire, game warden, ambulance etc. This statute above does not apply to self defense situations

Sympthsical

(8,936 posts)
7. The gun is checked and re-checked before it's handled
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 10:39 AM
Nov 2021

They have law enforcement in the room who go over the gun every time anyone in the court wants to handle it.

But it's still piss poor practice to point it around with a finger on the trigger.

Sympthsical

(8,936 posts)
11. I can't imagine anything would be done about it
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 10:49 AM
Nov 2021

My assumption would be there are exemptions to these things. But, that's something lawyers and this guy's boss would have to hash out if they had a mind to. Which I'm guessing they probably don't.

Response to MichMan (Reply #9)

Sympthsical

(8,936 posts)
6. When I saw that, I went, "No no no no no!" at the TV.
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 10:37 AM
Nov 2021

If there are knowledgeable gun people on the jury - and it is Wisconsin - hoo boy.

I don't know what the man was thinking.

Sympthsical

(8,936 posts)
10. Speaking only for myself
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 10:47 AM
Nov 2021

If anyone was holding a gun in the same room as me, my attention would be rapt.

DVRacer

(707 posts)
14. Between that and
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 10:58 AM
Nov 2021

As a victim of domestic violence I crawled out of my skin when the other prosecutor said “Everyone takes a beating sometimes” I don’t get as upset anymore it’s been 10 years since I divorced her but that took me right back immediately.

Sympthsical

(8,936 posts)
27. He literally argued Rittenhouse should've taken the beatings
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 11:44 AM
Nov 2021

My jaw was on the floor.

I don't know what this man was thinking during the rebuttal. I think he lost his composure because the defense poked at all his ego sensitive parts in their closing. Out of all the moments of the trial where I wanted to see the looks on the jury's faces, that has to be top three. Could you imagine a domestic abuse situation with a prosecutor making that argument?

Then he started explaining why a skateboard wasn't a weapon.

It's a shame, because the initial prosecution closing by Binger was actually pretty well done, I thought. Then that rebuttal came. It was certainly a last impression to leave the jury with. I'll give it that.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
33. Well, see, he didn't actually pull the trigger to "defend himself"
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 11:51 AM
Nov 2021

That would have been totally different.

maxsolomon

(32,992 posts)
54. i am not on Team Kyle
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 01:21 PM
Nov 2021

he pulled the trigger when a crazy person threw a bag of underwear at him. he overreacted.

what followed was a consequence of that overreaction. huber and grosskruetz were defending themselves from what they perceived as an active threat.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
75. I know
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 09:15 PM
Nov 2021

I was pointing out how ridiculous Kyle's defenders are in this thread. If he'd actually pulled the trigger, then claimed he was afraid, they'd have to support him.

Bucky

(53,795 posts)
50. Making the jurors understand what feeling threatened is like is, frankly, bad legal strategy
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 01:11 PM
Nov 2021

I'm really hoping for a hung jury here. Either a conviction or an acquittal is gonna lead to more armed RWNJs on the streets of Wisconsin looking for an excuse. Trials should be dispassionate and even a little boring.

Our country needs a little more boring.

 

inthewind21

(4,616 posts)
74. He didn't
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 06:44 PM
Nov 2021

Point it AT them. He demonstrated how Rittenhouse dropped the fire extinguisher he had so he could bring the gun up and point it at people. The defense did the same thing in rebuttal. The vapors and fainting sessions are a bit over the top. Clearly there's not many here who have ever been in the court when a murder trial is going on.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
20. So prosecutor is not some gun loving pissant that poses in front of mirrors with his finger extended
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 11:15 AM
Nov 2021


The rifle was checked out by the official before handing to prosecutor.

Hero, it's sad if that is your main criticism of this trial.
 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
21. Nope He's just someone who broke 3 of the 4 rules of firearms safety while the nation was watching.
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 11:27 AM
Nov 2021
The rifle was checked out by the official before handing to prosecutor.

How comforting. Alec Baldwin's gun was checked out as well. That didn't turn out so well, did it?

You never break the 4 rules. Never.

Hero, it's sad if that is your main criticism of this trial.

Key word: If.
 

Decoy of Fenris

(1,954 posts)
25. I drink and I know things.
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 11:37 AM
Nov 2021

In this case, I know guns. And if I saw -anyone- displaying what this guy was doing with that gun, I'd call them out on it, and have done so in the past. Guns aren't toys, and this dipshit needs to learn that.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
29. I'd trust him more than some pissant with a gun or two strapped to their body walking down street.
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 11:44 AM
Nov 2021
 

Decoy of Fenris

(1,954 posts)
30. Given how he's holding the gun, and knowing what I know, I'd be terrified of him.
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 11:47 AM
Nov 2021

As a gunner, I say that freely; That sort of shit is far scarier than the worst of any Trumplet, armed or not.

Lack of basic firearm discipline should never be excused, and he's violating at least three different laws doing so. He should be brought up on charges.

 

Decoy of Fenris

(1,954 posts)
36. Sorry mate, this guy's deranged. Needs to be imprisoned and have his 2nd Amendment taken away.
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 11:53 AM
Nov 2021

Clearly a danger to society, he needs to be locked up behind bars for the rest of his life.

XD Okay, but seriously, this sort of shit shouldn't fly. People die when idiots act like this Anyways, I gotta bounce but didn't want to leave you in the lurch, good to see you about. o7 Catch you on the next one.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
38. And gun-humpers with straight fingers aren't a danger to society.
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 11:57 AM
Nov 2021


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Decoy of Fenris

(1,954 posts)
69. Okay, so let's be honest with one another, mate.
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 03:05 PM
Nov 2021

Who do you fear more? No bullshit "But but but", a gunner with a finger on the trigger or one with a finger off the trigger, which is more dangerous? C'mon brother, it's common sense, especially in your line of work. The one that's angling to fire is going to be the one fondling the trigger. You can't in good faith argue otherwise.

There's a reason it's a part of the "Four Rules" not to put your finger on the trigger; Because if you do, you might kill someone you don't mean to.

This legislator, whatever side he's on, fucked up and deserves to get called on it.

xmas74

(29,658 posts)
37. You'd be terrified.
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 11:56 AM
Nov 2021

Now imagine how the crowd felt when Rittenhouse had his weapon-a weapon that everyone knew was loaded and had already been used to kill one person.

xmas74

(29,658 posts)
66. Or the crowd was close enough together
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 02:25 PM
Nov 2021

That running might be hard to accomplish.

Keep making excuses.

 

Decoy of Fenris

(1,954 posts)
67. Except they weren't packed that tight. Pure and simple fact.
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 02:38 PM
Nov 2021

No "excuse" there, plenty of people had ample time to retreat, including Rittenhouse (As he should have and on several occasions did, as proven by physical evidence and recordings.)

 

Decoy of Fenris

(1,954 posts)
71. Oh no, friend. I only offer "excuses" when "excuses" are facts.
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 03:14 PM
Nov 2021

For instance, I knew, for a fact, Zimmerman would get off. I also know for a fact that Rittenhouse will get off. Likewise, I know that Arbery's killers will NOT get off; They'll go to jail, and I'm willing to bet 15/20 if not more for it, because that's what the law says. Just like the rest.

When it comes to criminal activity, I hold nothing sacred and will eagerly blow the whistle on Gun Nuts, because the worst of them are lethal cancers on society; It just so happens that people who are against guns are also ignorant rubes as a general rule. In Rittenhouse's case, Self Defense reigns supreme and I believe it will do so whenever the jury renders their verdict. If I'm wrong, so be it, and I'll be happy for it; The kid is a scumbag and deserves to spend some time behind bars. But if I'm right, I have expected nothing less, and hopefully a few easily-duped overly-parasympathetic ignoramuses may have been deterred from being overly connected to something far more important than them.

ProfessorGAC

(64,425 posts)
73. "You'd Think They'd Run Away" Is NOT A Fact
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 05:44 PM
Nov 2021

You are dealing from opinion after opinion, and making multiple conjectures.
Then you conveniently ignore your own words and declare you only deal in facts.
That's uncompelling & intellectually lazy!

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
26. I feel comfortable knowing you wouldn't put your finger on the trigger of your daily toter. LMAO.
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 11:43 AM
Nov 2021
 

Devil Child

(2,728 posts)
32. 4 rules
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 11:50 AM
Nov 2021
Treat every firearm as if it is loaded. Never assume a firearm is unloaded and never treat it that way, even if you watch as it is unloaded. Make it a habit to treat guns like they are loaded all the time.

Always point the muzzle in a safe direction. A safe direction is a direction where the bullet will travel and harm no one in the event of an unwanted discharge. There are no accidental discharges with firearms, only unwanted discharges.

Be certain of your target and what's beyond it. Positive target identification is a must. To shoot at something you only think is a legal target is gambling. In the case of human injury, that means gambling with human life. You must be absolutely certain and correct in judgment before deciding to shoot. Otherwise, it's reckless behavior. In addition to identifying the target, a shooter must know that a safe backstop for their bullet is present in every shooting situation.

Keep your finger outside the trigger guard until ready to shoot.


4 rules are to be followed at ALL times. Whenever a firearm changes hands it is must be re-checked to verify safety at ALL times. There is no such thing as an accidental discharge, only negligent.
 

Devil Child

(2,728 posts)
51. You're most welcome, happy to be of help
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 01:12 PM
Nov 2021

They are kept simple by design, easier to retain and ingrain.

 

BlackSkimmer

(51,308 posts)
52. Absolutely. I learned to shoot a rifle at summer camp.
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 01:16 PM
Nov 2021

My dad taught me to shoot various handguns. He was VERY strict about gun safety.

 

Devil Child

(2,728 posts)
58. Interesting you mention the strictness of dad
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 01:23 PM
Nov 2021

Both my mother and father were instrumental in firearms safety. My father is a Vietnam war combat vet, when we were very young he took us for our first firearms instruction, did the 4 rules run-down, then shot and exploded a watermelon. He did this to reinforce the finality of what a firearm does. It worked. My siblings and I have never forgotten and always treat firearms with respect when handling or operating them.

Strictness and consistency go a long way.

Wishing you well this day BlackSkimmer.

 

BlackSkimmer

(51,308 posts)
60. Thanks! My mother would have NOTHING to do with guns.
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 01:33 PM
Nov 2021

Just no. I can only imagine the conversations between them when we weren’t around.

However, she was furious if she saw anyone point even a play gun at someone. My sister (who never listened to rules) actually shot a kid with a BB gun. I still remember that day. My mother treated him, while calling the wife of a doctor who lived across the street. The wife was a nurse and arrived promptly, the doctor arrived soon after.

Ironically the BB gun belonged to THEIR daughter, who was my sister’s best friend. What a day that was.

Everyone was fine in the end, but I had never seen my mother that angry.

 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
35. Here they are:
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 11:52 AM
Nov 2021

1. Treat all guns as if they are loaded.

2. Never point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.

3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire.

4. Be sure of your target and what is behind it.

 

BlackSkimmer

(51,308 posts)
49. Everyone should learn these.
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 01:08 PM
Nov 2021

I saw that recent video of that moron Damon Annette, and it made me wonder how often he points his “toys” at someone.

George II

(67,782 posts)
40. You don't think it was double and triple checked before they brought it into the courthouse....
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 12:38 PM
Nov 2021

...and THEN the courtroom?

 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
41. It likely was. You still don't put your finger on the trigger and point it at a bunch of people.
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 12:41 PM
Nov 2021

Period.

George II

(67,782 posts)
43. Well he did and it didn't go off. If he DIDN'T I'm sure someone would complain....
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 12:47 PM
Nov 2021

....that he didn't do it just like Rittenhouse.

 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
44. So when someone points an AR-15 at someone with their finger on the trigger, it merits nothing
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 01:02 PM
Nov 2021

but a "big whoop" as long as there isn't a negligent discharge?

If he DIDN'T I'm sure someone would complain...that he didn't do it just like Rittenhouse.

Anyone making such a complaint would be an idiot.

 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
47. I stand by my statement, and repeat my question.
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 01:06 PM
Nov 2021

When someone points an AR-15 at someone with their finger on the trigger, it merits nothing but a "big whoop" as long as there isn't a negligent discharge?

rockfordfile

(8,682 posts)
68. You're sounding stupid about this situation.
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 02:38 PM
Nov 2021

Rittenhouse was a 17yr old loser with a 7yr old mind. His parents were just as much losers for letting that pos go to Wisconsin.

sarisataka

(18,220 posts)
53. Interesting how a week ago
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 01:20 PM
Nov 2021

There were very many people, even those who have never fired/handled a gun, say you never under any circumstances point a gun at someone under any circumstances. This week, we'll there are exceptions...

I don't know why they don't use a flag safety in the courtroom. They are a couple bucks at Walmart. The safety fills the chamber and visually let everyone know the gun isn't loaded.

 

PDT69

(37 posts)
57. Maybe prosecutors that prosecute...
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 01:23 PM
Nov 2021

crimes involving firearms should learn a little about those firearms???

As someone who has had guns pointed at him, I'm not a fan.

Zeitghost

(3,796 posts)
65. I'm astonished
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 02:20 PM
Nov 2021

That a chamber lock wasn't being used or at a minimum the bolt was not removed. Is that normal in a courtroom?

LetMyPeopleVote

(144,005 posts)
76. It sounds like the Prosecution had a good closing
Tue Nov 16, 2021, 09:44 PM
Nov 2021



Speaking with CNN's John Berman on Tuesday morning, two legal experts expressed surprise at the strong closing argument presented by the prosecutor in the Kyle Rittenhouse case and said the jury may not let the young man who pleaded self-defense after killing two BLM protesters off the hook.

With the jury to be winnowed down from 18 to 12 via a lottery on Tuesday, Brooklyn Law School Assistant Professor Alexis Hoag told the "New Day" host: "The prosecution really delivered."

"I think they used the weekend well to bring their narrative together," Hoag continued. "What they did was deliver a compelling story arc, that's what jurors want to hear. They want the evidence, they want the witnesses to make some sort of sense."

"Their overarching narrative was you had this person coming in from outside, not defending their own property, not defending their own family, nor their home, bringing a gun, looking for a fight," she continued. "Then they peppered it with the highlights of evidence jurors saw, reinforcing repeatedly their storyline and the story arc. We saw the drone footage. We saw it when Rittenhouse shot, initially, Mr. Rosenbaum. He was on the ground, he wasn't lunging or attacking. Of course, that was the defense's characterization, so the prosecution actually really delivered."

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