This Is Where Oliver Stone Got His Loony JFK Conspiracies From

[Nevilledog]

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Mark S. Zaid
@MarkSZaidEsq
Excellent article by @TimWeinerAuthor. Reasonable minds can differ in assessing history & interpreting facts. But that also requires understanding how some "facts" were never facts at all & that our adversaries manipulate info to confuse us. It works.

President John Kennedy rides in a motorcade from the Dallas airport into the city with his wife Jacqueline and Texas Governor Johhn Connally.

This Is Where Oliver Stone Got His Loony JFK Conspiracies From
The CIA-killed-Kennedy myth — which Stone pushed in 'JFK' and 'JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass' — is twistier than a magic bullet.
rollingstone.com
5:49 PM · Nov 22, 2021

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/jfk-oliver-stone-conspiracy-theory-russian-disinformation-1260223/


Oliver Stone once made brilliant movies like Platoon, which won Oscars for best picture and best director. These days, he’s a tinfoil-hatted fabricator. His new documentary — JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass, premiering on Showtime on, you guessed it, Nov. 22 — is rooted in a big lie. It comes 30 years after the premiere of JFK, a film unrivaled in the annals of American cinematic propaganda. Both are based on the undying delusion that President Kennedy was murdered by the Deep State: The Central Intelligence Agency, backed by the military-industrial complex.

Do you believe that the CIA killed JFK? Millions of Americans suspect so. Let me ask you, then: Why do they believe it?

The tale can be traced to a Russian disinformation operation. It came from the same arsenal of political warfare that convinced half the world that the U.S. Army created AIDS. The one that monkey-wrenched the 2016 election for Donald Trump. The one now flooding the internet with deadly lies about the coronavirus and vaccines. The goals of these campaigns were one and the same: to divide Americans, to pour salt in our self-inflicted wounds, and ultimately to convince you that there is no truth. That crackpot fantasies are cold hard realities. That “conspiracy theories are now conspiracy facts,” as Stone proclaims in JFK Revisited.

Disinformation works best when it contains a kernel of truth. And, in truth, the Kennedy assassination is the black hole of American history. It has sucked better minds than Stone’s down into darkness. It has taught generations of Americans to be highly skeptical of the Official Government Version of events. It made the grassy knoll our town commons.

But what you believe about it boils down to this: Either Lee Harvey Oswald, trained by the United States Marines as a sharpshooter before he defected to the Soviet Union, got off a million-to-one shot in Dallas. He acted alone. Or he was an instrument of a conspiracy so immense that it staggers the mind.

*snip*

[former9thward]

1. The last paragraph is incorrect.

Oswald was not trained as a "sharpshooter". When training for shooting Marines have their recruits shoot under ideal conditions. If you can barely hit anything you are given a "Marksmen" badge. If you hit a few more then you get "Sharpshooter". People that actually are good shooters are given the "Expert" ranking. Oswald got Sharpshooter and that was reduced to Marksmen after a second test. He was not trained to shoot and he was a poor shot. In fact while in the Marines he was court-martialed for accidentally shooting himself in the elbow with a .22 handgun.

The second part of the paragraph is also nonsense. Jimmy Hoffa, who was the country's premier labor leader and presidents had his number on their phone lists, disappeared. No one knows exactly what happened or who did it. Or where he ended up. That was a pretty big conspiracy that no one was able to solve at the time or since. It does not stagger my mind that Oswald was the instrument of a conspiracy. Maybe it staggers the mind of the Rolling Stone writer.

[shrike3]

6. I saw the film.

I don't know what happened in Dallas, but I thought the theory put forward in Stone's film was ludicrous. Not to mention that the real Garrison struck me as a homophobe, frankly.

I find the theory of a mafia hit more believable, but that's me.

[former9thward]

8. I agree with the mob hit.

There is concrete evidence and motive for that.

[dflprincess]

10. The CIA and the mob had a long history of working together

going back to WWII when it was the OSS. I would not be surprised if elements of both collaborated in killing JFK as neither organization was happy with the Castro's take over of Cuba & thought Kennedy should be doing more.

[Archae]

11. Garrison was a homophobe.

His original theories of the JFK killing, had a club of gays who would commit "thrill killings," although Garrison never found any such group.

[shrike3]

22. My impression exactly. n/t

[Saboburns]

19. I can tell that you never spent any time pulling butts or qualifying on a military gun range.

Last edited Tue Nov 23, 2021, 03:30 PM - Edit history (1)

I have. Just about everything you stated above is incorrect. I'm an old Seabee and we qualify side-by-side with marines on marine gun ranges. Seabees must qualify with a rifle every 2 years, marines must qualify every year.

First off, all marines, hell even all Seabees, are trained to be sharpshooters. Actually marines are trained to be expert rifleman. All marines. They spend 4-6 weeks every year being trained by the best marksmen in America. In those 4-6 weeks they spend 8-12 hours a day learning shooting techniques, practicing these techniques, and shooting hundreds of aimed rounds every day.

During these weeks of rifle qualifications all other training ceases. Rifle qualification is a marine's #1 priority. If you don't score at least as a marksman you are discharged from the Marine Corp. That is shooting from 200-500 yard ranges with open sites at man sized targets. And I'm telling you this not easy. And so far from "If you can barely hit anything you are given a "Marksmen" badge. If you hit a few more then you get "Sharpshooter" as to be laughable.

Anybody who achieves Sharpshooter qualification as a marine rifleman is not to be trifled with nor denigrated as a lousy shot as you implied above.

[former9thward]

20. I have qualified on a military gun range, not that it is any business of yours.

Don't try and confuse people by comparing modern training with what was happening in 1957. Go ahead and laugh but Oswald was a poor shot and that is well known.

[Rustynaerduwell]

2. "The CIA did it" makes for an easy punchline to use against alternative theories Re:JFK, but

a case can be made, and has been in a number of books by respected researchers and writers that a rogue band of anti-Castro CIA agents and operatives conspired with elements of organized crime to kill JFK. This is far from the claim "The CIA did it. And, apart what Oliver Stone believes, it is far from loony.

[TheRealNorth]

4. That is a good point

I never considered that there could have been rogue elements within the agency.

[TheRealNorth]

3. I have grown more skeptical about JFK conspiracies as I have gotten older, however

I still think the mafia was involved. I never bought the story that mob-associate Jack Ruby killed Oswald out of patriotism or because it made the police look bad.

[shrike3]

7. The mafia theory is one I find most credible. They're good at killing people and getting away with i

[greenjar_01]

21. The mafia are morons

[shrike3]

23. But they're good at killing people. You don't have to be smart to do that.

[greenjar_01]

24. Not that good

They're good at killing their own and helpless people in ethnic enclaves. They've never been good at political killings of any kind outside of completely controlled territory in southern Italy and Sicily.

[shrike3]

25. This guy disagrees.

https://theconversation.com/how-the-mafia-uses-violence-to-control-politics-103031.

Individual politicians who threaten those business interests may find themselves in danger. Physical assaults, arson and threats are the mafia’s favored tactics. These crimes make up 70 percent of the 1,191 political attacks documented by Avviso Pubblico.

After the director of a Sicilian national park in 2016 strengthened anti-mafia checks on local firms applying to work in the park, for example, he narrowly survived a nighttime assassination attempt.

Other politicians are corrupt, contributing to Italy’s organized crime problem by sharing illegal profits with the mob.

“We all have to get our fill,” said one Naples bureaucrat who was recorded taking bribes from the mafia.

Between 1991 and 2018, Italian police dissolved 266 city councils for having ties with criminal organizations.

[greenjar_01]

26. Um

"They've never been good at political killings of any kind outside of completely controlled territory in southern Italy and Sicily"

Stand by it.

[shrike3]

27. So you are the final word on the mafia?

Good for you!

[greenjar_01]

28. Not at all

Just saying that your article there didn't contradict what I already said.

[shrike3]

29. And yet you know personally that they are morons.

Cool. Good for you.

[greenjar_01]

30. Oh for goodness sake

Have a good day, pal.

[KentuckyWoman]

5. There is one version blaming the secret service.

They claim George Hickey in a car ahead of Kennedy meant to shoot back at Oswald with an AR 15 but the car lurched. Hickey accidentally shot Kennedy in the head.

These things are all over the place. At this point it would not shock me if a new book came out claiming it was space aliens.

[Kid Berwyn]

9. That all may be true.

Doesn’t change the fact CIA obstructed justice by withholding information about Oswald. CIA failed to inform Warren Commission that they had hired Mafia to murder Castro and who knows who else. Disgraced former CIA Director Allen Dulles, of course, served as straw boss of Warren Commission.

Tim Weiner and Rolling Stone got all that. Russia manipulates Western media, governments, groups and individuals. That doesn’t forgive CIA doing same thing in regards to Dallas when misinforming and disinforming the Warren Commission, HSCA and We the People.

ETA: Oliver based his film on the work of James Garrison, US Attorney in New Orleans — the only US Government prosecution of any one involved in the assassination of President Kennedy.

[Archae]

12. And Garrison's prosecution of Clay Shaw was a complete failure.

Totally.

His key witness was a paranoid schizophrenic.

And contrary to the movie "JFK," Garrison did NOT give that big speech that was in closing.

[Kid Berwyn]

13. Nor did US Government admit NAZI ties of Dulles and McCloy.

Curiously missing from American history and any mention of the Warren Commission in corporate media:

Two of its members were directly responsible for the rise of post-war fascism. Allen Dulles, as a top official of the OSS and CIA, incorporated NAZI war criminals into the CIA from its founding. John McCloy, as High Commissioner for Germany, allowed Klaus Barbie, Alfred Krupp, eight members of his board, and who-knows-who-else to escape justice. Of course, Dulles and McCloy also were barons of Wall Street and Beltway Insiders, at the heart of the military industrial complex. We all can see what that means for the United States today.

Background:

The American who let the Nazis rebuild Germany

https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/november-2021/the-american-who-let-the-nazis-rebuild-germany/

CIA and NAZI War Criminals

https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB146/index.htm

[edbermac]

14. I thought it was based on Crossfire by Jim Marss.

Interesting reading but then again the guy said he believed in UFOs.

[WHITT]

15. Sure As Hell Wasn't Oswald

The Oswald revisionists claim his first shot, which occurred after the car slowed to make the turn, and was to his left, MISSED THE CAR ENTIRELY, but he supposedly made the head shot as the car was accelerating at full speed away from him to his extreme right THROUGH THE TREE!

UH HUH.

Look. The greatest forensic pathologist on the planet, Cyril Wecht, has debunked both the JFK and RFK assassinations.

[Upward]

16. Meh. Our Institutions Fail Us All the Time. In the Age of Transparency That Leaves Us Vulnerable AF

to grifters.

Example: Rolling Stone also did an article on The Truth About Cancer gathering where Roger Stone and Erik Trump spoke.

You want to guess where I heard about TTAC, or diet-based treatment for the first time?

I'm pretty sure it was right here in DU, 10-15 years ago.

Information and data flies so fast, and our Institutions move slowly.

We're still waiting for all the files on the assassination to be opened. We're still waiting to know what Jackie really thought.

It leaves us vulnerable to people who claim to have answers. That includes RS, imo

PS - https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/us-news/us-postpones-disclosure-of-jfk-assassination-sealed-records-from-oct-deadline-to-dec-15.html

[blogslug]

17. Oliver Stone, like Michael Moore, is very good at painting pictures and asking questions.

As for providing answers or solutions? Not so much.

[WarGamer]

18. The Stone JFK movie was thoroughly enjoyable...

Great (fictional) thriller surrounding the concept that the Federal Gov't will do just about anything to protect itself.