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Thu Dec 2, 2021, 12:37 PM

I hated being pregnant.

Pregnancy hated me back. I never once felt beautiful during the entire thing, and the remnants of the damage to my body are still there. Even though I ate sensibly, I gained so much weight that I looked obese. I held water like crazy. Couldn't see my knees or ankles. When I asked my doc for help, he actually told me that I was obese and it had nothing to do with my pregnancy. He didn't seem to notice that I weighed 105 pounds before getting pregnant, but he was pretty shocked when I lost 45 pounds after delivery. Suddenly my knees and ankles were visible, while I was still in the hospital, and he agreed that I was not obese. We lived so far out in the sticks that we didn't have the option of changing docs.

I had preeclampsia and cephalopelvic disproportion with the first one that damn near killed us both. They did a c-section, but had trouble getting my blood pressure down enough to make surgery safe. Then they had trouble getting the baby to breathe. I was fine during my appointment at 4:30pm, but by 10:00pm, I was in trouble. They were so busy that night that no one even informed my husband of our condition until 6:00am, by which time he was sure we had both died. The baby was born at around 2:00am, so I don't even know what happened between then and 6:00am. I do know that when I woke up, I felt like my guts had been torn out. Then they wanted me to turn over, which was excruciating.

The doc for the second pregnancy took more precautions and put me on bed rest almost from the beginning. I was fortunate that I could stay home and it didn't impact us financially. How much different it is for women who cannot take that much time off work! I still gained a lot of weight, but not as much, and they took the baby, another c-section, early to avoid complications. Then he told me that if I got pregnant again, it would kill me.

Yet, I wanted my kids and would do it again. I wouldn't do it a third time and I surely wouldn't do it if the pregnancy was the result of rape or incest. These rightwing blowhards, in any case, would have me leave my children motherless rather than have me exercise my choice. How is that pro-life?

Who the fuck do these people think they are to treat pregnancy like a few months of inconvenience and discomfort? I've said this before and will say it again: Childbirth is inherently dangerous. You don't know ahead of time who will do well and who will not. Plenty of otherwise healthy women die of eclampsia after apparent safe deliveries. I had a mother-in-law who popped out babies at home and went for tea afterwards. We are not all so fortunate.

For me, sentencing women to 9 months or more of what can truly be hell for some, putting their lives at risk, and scarring their bodies and psyches for no good reason, is inhumane. Add that to the anguish of whether to keep the baby or put it up for adoption, worries about taking care of it financially, and all the other burdens that Republicans are happy to tell them to "pull themselves up by the bootstraps" in order to survive. As we all know, the baby is no longer of political use once it is born, so it's ok to deny food, shelter, and healthcare at that point. And the "deadbeat" moms who had no choice need to "get educated and find a better job." My favorite one is that they need to "keep their legs closed." SMDH

I am way past the age where it affects me. My daughters are nearing that age. Yet, I am worried and scared to death about the future of our daughters who will not be able to make decisions about their own bodies.

That's all I have to say. Thanks for listening.

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Reply I hated being pregnant. (Original post)
piddyprints Dec 2021 OP
pandr32 Dec 2021 #1
piddyprints Dec 2021 #2
pandr32 Dec 2021 #5
Akacia Dec 2021 #87
ratchiweenie Dec 2021 #3
piddyprints Dec 2021 #6
Caliman73 Dec 2021 #26
piddyprints Dec 2021 #30
ratchiweenie Dec 2021 #31
Trueblue Texan Dec 2021 #68
LeftInTX Dec 2021 #11
piddyprints Dec 2021 #14
LeftInTX Dec 2021 #25
COL Mustard Dec 2021 #39
piddyprints Dec 2021 #40
barbtries Dec 2021 #35
piddyprints Dec 2021 #43
Kath2 Dec 2021 #62
SharonAnn Dec 2021 #69
LeftInTX Dec 2021 #71
LakeArenal Dec 2021 #4
piddyprints Dec 2021 #7
FakeNoose Dec 2021 #32
Freddie Dec 2021 #8
piddyprints Dec 2021 #10
Farmer-Rick Dec 2021 #55
Freddie Dec 2021 #56
Farmer-Rick Dec 2021 #57
hunter Dec 2021 #64
JudyM Dec 2021 #9
piddyprints Dec 2021 #12
sarge43 Dec 2021 #20
piddyprints Dec 2021 #24
JudyM Dec 2021 #28
Hekate Dec 2021 #13
piddyprints Dec 2021 #16
Name removed Dec 2021 #81
genxlib Dec 2021 #15
piddyprints Dec 2021 #19
Shrike47 Dec 2021 #17
piddyprints Dec 2021 #21
sarge43 Dec 2021 #18
piddyprints Dec 2021 #22
Cozmo Dec 2021 #23
piddyprints Dec 2021 #27
Hortensis Dec 2021 #29
piddyprints Dec 2021 #36
Hortensis Dec 2021 #42
vanlassie Dec 2021 #50
Hortensis Dec 2021 #51
vanlassie Dec 2021 #52
Hortensis Dec 2021 #53
ShepKat Dec 2021 #33
piddyprints Dec 2021 #37
Hortensis Dec 2021 #47
ShepKat Dec 2021 #70
Hortensis Dec 2021 #89
mahina Dec 2021 #34
piddyprints Dec 2021 #38
mahina Dec 2021 #44
piddyprints Dec 2021 #46
slightlv Dec 2021 #48
piddyprints Dec 2021 #85
slightlv Dec 2021 #90
AKwannabe Dec 2021 #41
piddyprints Dec 2021 #45
MissMillie Dec 2021 #49
piddyprints Dec 2021 #72
Tumbulu Dec 2021 #54
piddyprints Dec 2021 #77
Tumbulu Dec 2021 #91
Solly Mack Dec 2021 #58
piddyprints Dec 2021 #76
pansypoo53219 Dec 2021 #59
Tumbulu Dec 2021 #60
piddyprints Dec 2021 #78
Kath2 Dec 2021 #61
piddyprints Dec 2021 #73
proud patriot Dec 2021 #63
piddyprints Dec 2021 #75
proud patriot Dec 2021 #92
BigmanPigman Dec 2021 #65
piddyprints Dec 2021 #79
ymetca Dec 2021 #66
piddyprints Dec 2021 #80
Freddie Dec 2021 #67
piddyprints Dec 2021 #82
LeftInTX Dec 2021 #74
piddyprints Dec 2021 #83
LeftInTX Dec 2021 #84
piddyprints Dec 2021 #86
LeftInTX Dec 2021 #88

Response to piddyprints (Original post)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 12:47 PM

1. Every woman is an individual

I keep hearing about individual freedom from crazy loudmouths about vaccines and other kinds of horseshit, but what of women and pregnancies? There is no single experience that is shared by all.

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Response to pandr32 (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 12:51 PM

2. Yes, but it's different with vaccines.

If I get an abortion, it affects me and a clump of cells. If I refuse to get a vaccine and become infected, it affects many people and helps spread a deadly virus. The way they have co-opted the "choice" argument is, frankly, obscene. They're just showing off their hypocrisy.

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Response to piddyprints (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 12:55 PM

5. I completely agree

Their hypocrisy about freedoms and rights is staggering.

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Response to piddyprints (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 12:20 PM

87. Exactly.

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Response to piddyprints (Original post)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 12:53 PM

3. Until they can carry a baby for 9 months, all these old white moralists should just shut their

pie holes. They know nothing.

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Response to ratchiweenie (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 12:58 PM

6. I'm related to some

who have carried multiple babies and given birth. Plenty of women are anti-choice until someone in their family has an ectopic pregnancy or is raped or something else bad.

Years ago, we were involved in a very conservative church that my husband grew up in. One of the head honchos in the district came to visit us once. I don't know what brought up the conversation, but his daughter was getting divorced and he talked about it. That church was dead set against divorce and considered it a sin worthy of damnation. His exact words, that I remember from 44 years ago were: "You see thing differently when it happens in your own family." Surprise! He no longer thought his daughter would go to hell for getting divorced. Who'da thunk it?

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Response to piddyprints (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 01:31 PM

26. That is a mindset that I cannot relate to.

I mean, I know academically AND personally how people see things differently depending on the emotional distance from the situation and the actors. Obviously, something that my wife, child, parents, best friend, myself, etc... are experiencing is going to land harder. The weird thing for me is that it isn't either or. If someone that I do not know, is ill, or their child or parent, spouse, friend, etc... died, I am not indifferent. I can put myself in that situation or at least try to understand what they must be experiencing and if there is something I can do to mitigate the situation, I would try. There seems to be something common to people drawn to a Conservative ideology where they cannot see the other side of the argument or the opposing view, unless a situation happens to them personally or to someone they hold dear. They may be able to understand a feeling, but it seems to just be fleeting.

You don't have to "See things differently when it happens in your own family". If you can ONLY see things differently when it happens to you or your family, then there is something missing inside of you.

My child doesn't have to be starving for me to know that any child starving is bad, which is why I support agencies that work to mitigate and end food insecurity. Why I support laws that make food a right not a commodity, why I support using my tax dollars to give food to the hungry.

My wife, or daughter, or cousin, or friend doesn't have to be facing a decision about whether to terminate a pregnancy for me to understand that it is a serious choice, that pregnancy, even in the best circumstances and desired, is a dangerous and life altering situation. I want women, any woman, to have that choice. I want them to have complete access to affordable health services whether they decide to carry the pregnancy to term or to terminate it.

I was listening to Kavanaugh's question and him talking about "Pro Life" and Pro-Choice, it isn't "Pro Life" it is Anti-Choice v Pro-Choice. One allows women the bodily autonomy to decide their future, the other makes them servants to the whims of men.

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 01:42 PM

30. Spot on.

This goes for pro-choice, vaccines, etc. We seem to have lost our sense of society when we only care about things directly affecting us. And, yes, it does seem to be a problem that manifests itself mainly in conservative minds. For the evangelicals, it's all about "personal salvation" or what we used to call "fire insurance." If they get it wrong, they go to hell. However, the fact that they can change their minds about what's right and wrong based on who is hurt says a lot about who they really are, and it's not a pretty view.

They are not "Pro Life" any more than we are "Pro Death." As a matter of fact, they seem to actually be "Pro Death." Like you, I think Anti-Choice v Pro-Choice is more accurate.

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Response to piddyprints (Reply #30)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 01:56 PM

31. They belive in choice when they refuse to wear masks or get vaccinated, which affects all of us.

They don't believe in choice when it comes to pregnancy which affect only the woman and her family. They really have no moral core.

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Response to piddyprints (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 08:59 AM

68. add more to that hypocritical thinking observed...

I wonder how many of us know staunch anti-abortion right wingers who've had abortions. I know a BUNCH of them. I feel like outing them all. Some of them in my own family. They were not only pro-choice when their daughter got knocked up, they even paid for the abortion themselves. But now, they'll only vote for anti-abortion candidates. Hypocrites.

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Response to ratchiweenie (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 01:03 PM

11. Unfortunately, Amy Coney Barrett went through five pregnancies

The thing is: Pregnancy is not the same for every woman.

Mine were hell.

I always envied those who could just breeze through it.

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 01:13 PM

14. Yes, having been pregnant is no predictor of what side they'll be on.

Might be different if something had happened where she'd have had to make a hard choice.

My daughter breezed through her only pregnancy, looked totally beautiful throughout, gave birth after about 2 hours of labor, and got an easy kid who never even needed glasses or braces. If she didn't look like me, I'd think we belonged to someone else. Still, she believes in the right to choose.

My other daughter has never had children, mostly because she waited too long and then got divorced. She says she would never get an abortion, but doesn't think it's her place to tell other women what to do. That's good enough for me.

I'm sorry you had hard pregnancies. I actually beat myself up emotionally because I didn't enjoy it.

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Response to piddyprints (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 01:24 PM

25. The thing that motivated me was the "eye on the prize" at the end of nine months!

So telling someone they can "just have the baby adopted" is easier said than done!

I know there are people who want to adopt, so if I had easy pregnancies, maybe I could go through with it for someone else.

I don't know if I could with my horrific pregnancies.

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 03:10 PM

39. It's Like We're Moving Into "Brave New World" Or Somethingq

Babies grown in labs, no actual parenting, complete dystopia. Well, seems like women in the US are going to be the incubators. So sorry.

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 03:11 PM

40. You're better than I am.

I would never ever ever carry a pregnancy for someone else while I have a family that depends on me. Even if you haven't had bad ones, the next one could be bad.

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Response to piddyprints (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 02:36 PM

35. She was never faced with the choice.

One of my best friends told me during the time I was contemplating and eventually getting an abortion was that she would never do that, she'd have the child and give it up for adoption. Well, we were in our early 20s at the time. She ended up having 2 abortions. Sometimes you just have to walk in those shoes to even know what you would do.

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Response to barbtries (Reply #35)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 03:19 PM

43. I hear that from my daughter.

She has never had children. Now that she's single and almost too old, not to mention busier than she's ever been, she says she would never have an abortion. I feel bad for her because she never got the opportunity to be a mom, and I understand where she's coming from. However, I can imagine circumstances that would make her change her mind.

Even though she says she would never have an abortion, she doesn't think it's her business (or the government's) to dictate what other women do with their bodies.

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Response to piddyprints (Reply #43)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 09:55 PM

62. I understand.

When I was going to law school at night I had a good friend who, by the way, was Catholic. She became pregnant. And she had the same schedule as mine - work all day, law school at night and try to find the time to study, read, etc. After agonizing over it, she decided to have an abortion. She is now a successful lawyer and a great mom. All of that would have been ruined had she not had a choice.

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #11)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 10:27 AM

69. She was mature, married, financially stable, and had incredible community support.

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Response to SharonAnn (Reply #69)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 11:03 AM

71. Yes, that too.

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Response to piddyprints (Original post)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 12:55 PM

4. Additionally, a pregnant teen has so much pressure.

Her family, his family, HIM, doctors, adoption service providers, the community,
your friends, his friends maybe a pastor thrown into the mix.

A girl can lose herself in all that. It takes years to sort it all out and by that time there are fiancés or husbands that need to be told. Then years of wondering, some regrets, some blessings.

In later years wondering if you should look or if the child grown will look for you.

I knew a woman who kept her secret from everyone. 52 years later the child showed up at the door. Her seven kids were gobsmacked. The grown adoptee took one look around and decided not to have anymore contact with his biological family.

Broke the woman’s heart all over again.
Not to mention the drama it created in her family.



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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 12:59 PM

7. Yes!

And don't we want her to stay in school? That can be difficult during pregnancy.

It's all so heartbreaking.

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 02:24 PM

32. Any girl who becomes pregnant as a teen

... is almost certainly interrupting or abandoning her own education and plans for the future.

Depending on the family this girl comes from, quitting her education could be seen as good or bad. In the USA in the 21st century, it's almost certainly bad. A teenage girl getting pregnant is regarded as a failure in the eyes of most families today.

Add to that the fact that this girl has very little chance of financially supporting herself or the baby, and must rely on parents or the state for financial support. Even if there is a boy who steps up and takes responsibility, it means two educations will be abandoned instead of one. Two families experience failure and disappointment instead of one.

It's almost guaranteed that mental and emotional maturity will not be gained by these individuals (too-young parents) until they're well into their 20's or maybe later. Or maybe never. The outlook is rarely promising, and their future is often bleak. One wonders how a baby born into this situation could ever find a happy home to grow up in. Emotional maturity in the young parents (especially the young mother) is a major factor for the baby's well-being.

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Response to piddyprints (Original post)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 01:00 PM

8. Can I share some with of this?

My feelings 100%. The bottom line in abortion is no one has the right to force a woman to risk her life against her will.

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Response to Freddie (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 01:02 PM

10. Absolutely!

I get so tired of people acting as if pregnancy is an easy thing for everyone and just putting the baby up for adoption solves all the problems.

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Response to Freddie (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 07:38 PM

55. My wife almost died giving birth to our beautiful daughter

She had placenta previa. I came home from work and found her on the floor in a pool of blood as big as a bed. It happened 2 more times where she fainted and gushed out blood, in the middle of the night while we slept. Eventually we had to have someone up with her 24/7 so we could get her to a hospital ASAP when she would bleed.

AND this was when Aids had infected the nation's blood supply and she couldn't get transfusions to replace her lost blood.

But in the end they both made it. She was afraid of sex after that...until she had her tubes tied. She never wanted to get pregnant again, she had been that frieghtened.

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Response to Farmer-Rick (Reply #55)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 08:01 PM

56. Glad everything was ok

My daughter developed HELPP syndrome during her 3rd and final pregnancy; it’s like eclampsia (high blood pressure) with liver failure and a 25% fatality rate. Thankfully she’s a nurse and knew what the various test results were headed toward. She had an emergency section 6 weeks early, delivered a 4.5 lb but healthy girl who came home from the hospital with her 5 days later. She’s now an ornery 3-year-old.
I have a daughter and 2 granddaughters and am LIVID at these assholes who think childbearing is just an “inconvenience.”

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Response to Freddie (Reply #56)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 08:40 PM

57. Exactly.

Glad to hear your daughter and grandchild made it.

Many women don't. If I had been 10 minutes later in finding her passed out on the floor the first time, she would have died. If your daughter hadn't known what the tests meant she may have been one of the unlucky ones. Many men and women who don't experience such problems think pregnancy is a walk in the park for everyone.

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Response to Farmer-Rick (Reply #55)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 12:17 AM

64. Similar story here.

Sat by my wife while she was getting multiple transfusions in both arms. Lots of blood. One of the most terrifying days of my life. Not hers. She tells me she doesn't remember much of it.

Overall, my wife, her mom, and my mom loved being pregnant, loved having babies, in spite of the danger.

Nevertheless, it's nobody's business to tell a woman how she should feel about a pregnancy, most especially politicians or judges.

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Response to piddyprints (Original post)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 01:00 PM

9. A story like this would make an excellent letter to the editor! So many people have a simplistic

impression of the very real risks and costs.

So glad you made it through. I hope your daughters feel how blessed they are! ❤️

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Response to JudyM (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 01:07 PM

12. Thank you.

I didn't even talk about the financial cost!

We were young, married for a year, and very, very poor. The baby was born 24 days before my 21st birthday, so I was not eligible for Medicaid. A hospital bill for an emergency c-section back then was over $2k. We made $50/week then and had school loans and a car loan for a jalopy. We had to agree to pay the hospital $10/week before they would release us. We went many days without food and I was too malnourished to breast feed. Fortunately, a neighboring farmer let us have as much milk as we needed, so that's what the baby got.

I'm not sure my daughters feel especially blessed, because they don't know any different.

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Response to piddyprints (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 01:17 PM

20. If you do write that letter, include this. n/t

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Response to sarge43 (Reply #20)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 01:23 PM

24. Thank you.

But where I live, a letter to the editor like this would likely get me or my property or animals hurt. I would be instantly declared "sinful" and beyond redemption.

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Response to piddyprints (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 01:32 PM

28. Positively harrowing.

This encapsulates (you write so well and concisely) the complex gravity of decision making re: childbirth. I know it’s so personal but maybe you could ✍️ anonymously? It’s such a vivid life-tale. Thanks for sharing it with us.

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Response to piddyprints (Original post)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 01:11 PM

13. Thank you

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Response to Hekate (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 01:13 PM

16. You're welcome.


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Response to piddyprints (Reply #16)


Response to piddyprints (Original post)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 01:13 PM

15. I would like to add that it isn't all physical

The mental aspects of postpartum depression can we very serious.

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Response to genxlib (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 01:17 PM

19. Yes.

That's why I mentioned "psyches." I think I had PPD that went unrecognized. Clearly, it wasn't as bad as it can get. Still, I found myself tired, teary, and unable to enjoy my baby for about 6 weeks. I can't even imagine if it had been a forced pregnancy.

These people are just monsters. Unfortunately, my in-laws are among them.

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Response to piddyprints (Original post)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 01:14 PM

17. Your pregnancies sound, sadly enough, like mine. Sick as a dog, emergency deliveries, etc.

How they think they can force women to do it is beyond me.

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Response to Shrike47 (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 01:19 PM

21. I'm sorry to hear that.

I think it is more common than we realize.

What hurts me most is that women are among those wanting to do this. Sure, maybe not "most" women, but enough so that they gave us TFG specifically for that reason.

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Response to piddyprints (Original post)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 01:15 PM

18. A Wall can not be built high enough and long enough

to list the names of all the women who have died to due to pregnancy and child birth.

priddyprints

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Response to sarge43 (Reply #18)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 01:20 PM

22. So true.

I sometimes get a little traumatized thinking of how close we came. The nurses almost sent me home, a 30-minute drive, until one of them decided to call the doc and he told them to x-ray me.

Thanks.

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Response to piddyprints (Original post)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 01:22 PM

23. Let's face facts. I hear what you are saying and I commiserate with you wholeheartedly

But, these draconian laws were written by men who could give a rat's ass as to how you are feeling, how your body is changing and the fact that you feel like you body has been taken over by some little alien while you are pregnant. Not to mention the the fact that it really chaps men's hides because they don't have the ability to procreate. So because of that, they are going to make you suffer, and suffer you have.

Any woman who goes along with her man, meekly ascribing to his attack on women because she doesn't have the guts to stand up for own gender is an embarrassment. God knows what else they are blindly finding OK. I really don't hate men, I just believe they need to stand aside and give women the power to decide how to make the world a more descent, livable and compassionate world. Not to mention the fact that women are smart as helll

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Response to Cozmo (Reply #23)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 01:31 PM

27. You are correct.

Except that there are plenty of women who think exactly like these men. The fact that one of the SC justices is a woman and arguing against Roe v Wade is troubling.

If they could figure out a way to implant a fetus into a man's scrotum or something, I couldn't be happier. Let him waddle around for months and risk his life and then tell us that someone else gets to decide if he chooses that or not.

Funny you should mention "little alien" ... I was convinced by the way the first baby kicked that I was giving birth to an octopus!

I don't hate men either. As a matter of fact, I'm rather fond of the one I'm married to. Fortunately, he we are like-minded. But collectively, the republican ones are bad news for women and all living things.

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Response to piddyprints (Original post)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 01:35 PM

29. Of course your daughters can make decisions about their own bodies.

I hope you're raising them to be strong, indepedent, competent women. But while they're young that's on their parents also.

My daughter and I were talking about this. We agreed that in those days I would have had a talk with her, hopefully before she was sexually active but thinking about it, and then we would have been off to the gynecologist. These days there are shots and implants so that I wouldn't have to watch her take a BCP every day. And I'd have an abortion pill available anyway.

And I would. We know several couples who got to raise grandchildren in their middle and retirement years because one of their kids wasn't up to the huge job. Best birth control incentive in the world.

Seriously, all the posts on this forum that portray women as even more victimized than they are likely to be are not helpful. Even worse for the notion of being helpless (!) to control their futures. I don't get the appeal of victimhood, but some who come here are really into helplessness, grievance, victim roles and may be acting them out for all we know. With or without abortion, some who didn't intend it will be be schlepping children to the park and cleaning handprints off the walls instead of lunching with friends. Mostly ex-friends, of course. Extremely different lifestyle.

Better to be empowered and proactive.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #29)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 03:06 PM

36. They are both grown.

Both make their own decisions and have done well.

We had all those discussions when they were young and were not put into the position of raising our grandchildren.

I don't see the posts on this forum portraying women as victimized. I see posts of women sharing their stories and pointing out just how wrong-headed the anti-choicers are and how tragic it can get if Roe v Wade is overturned.

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Response to piddyprints (Reply #36)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 03:18 PM

42. :) Glad to hear it. I don't think people need to worry either

about a future in which the daughters of others "will not be able to make decisions about their own bodies." What the Republicans actually can and may do if we don't stop them defines our job.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #29)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 05:14 PM

50. You are suggesting a highly entitled approach

involving easy access to medical care. And abortion pills. And caring available parenting. None of which may be available to a raped teenager. Not to mention the fact that these people will try to limit birth control as well, if they succeed here.

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Response to vanlassie (Reply #50)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 06:03 PM

51. Sorry, but...absurd. No one learns to be more self reliant

and strong than people who are not entitled. It's incredibly insulting to imagine that all low-income people are so incompetent and spiritless that they can't manage their bodily systems. I've been there: low income means tending to necessities is typically HARDER, not that they're abandoned. Most low income residential neighborhoods are typically full of familiies living respectable and competent lives.

Reminds me of...which politician? who put his foot in it big time by saying we needed to teach low-income black people to talk to their babies so they'll develop adequately because, you know, low income must mean severely incompetent as parents?

Low income means old cars, not being too "un-entitled" to be able to drive them without crashing.

As for your raped teenager, she'll get what she needs if she turns to family, friends or authorities for help. Most communities have a number of resources to help girls like her. Those who don't seek help, though, may be of any entitlement level.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #51)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 06:16 PM

52. I wonder which of us has more direct experience with

poor young girls and women? 🤔

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Response to vanlassie (Reply #52)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 06:52 PM

53. This is getting off track. Have a nice evening. nt

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Response to piddyprints (Original post)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 02:28 PM

33. I mourn

for all women who this affects personally.
I just can't get passed the utter audacity of whitey in a suit.

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Response to ShepKat (Reply #33)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 03:07 PM

37. I do too.

I have a hard time getting past the women who enable this. Not that I give men a pass. I just think that women should know better than to want to strip rights from other women.

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Response to ShepKat (Reply #33)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 03:39 PM

47. ? This really isn't just whitey. Lots of black and other minority people

of both/all genders, and not just most conservatives but also some liberals, oppose legalized abortion and support what the Republicans are doing.

Also people from all income levels and clothing preferences. People's personal beliefs and the influences of the cultures they belong to tend to be very strong.

Religion's particularly big among a lot of black communities, most of them culturally southern Christian, but a lot of people of all races everywhere in the nation either vote Republican or don't vote specifically because of the abortion issue. Even those who support some legalized abortion may prefer Republicans to be able to hold the line for them against what Democrats might do.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #47)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 11:01 AM

70. I was directing my wrath towards...

the supreme court mostly. (Amy)

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Response to ShepKat (Reply #70)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 02:47 PM

89. Okay, though there's strong evidence that Thomas has always been

black nationalist in ideology, intrinsically hostile to any government dominated by white people. Not exactly whitey in a suit, regardless of what his current goals as the most powerful black man in America are.

Aside from the most archconservative justice leading the male power/religious right's war on abortion and many other of our institutions, Thomas was for years, anti-white, anti-establishment (like a lot of LW and RW extremists) and pro black self determination. (The ideal self determination would be black autonomy under separate government, but if not some form of empowered self segregation. Surely impossible, no matter how our society seems to be coming apart at the seams right now?)

To this extremist mindset, the liberalism that has always fought for and advanced equality and wellbeing -- including the right to abortion for all women -- supposedly victimizes black people and makes them weak and dependent, and keeps them oppressed. So that'd at least explain Thomas's alignment with hard-core RWers, including the religious right and white racists, whose constant attempts to subjugate women and persecute minorities keep their victims strong and angry.

In my other post I pointed out that many religious voters sincerely oppose abortion because they believe they should. But I believe more are driven by dark, dangerous, unprincipled RW passions. Even if some whiteys in suits once thought it'd be financially beneficial to try to harness the dark passions for financial purposes, they lost control long ago. "Whitey in suits" couldn't, and wouldn't, put a religous extremist like Coney Barrett on the high court if RW extremists, including dangerous religious right extremists, didn't approve.

Like you I'm very afraid for the rights of our children, and grandchildren, but for me legal abortion's just one item on a long list of things to worry about. It's likely seen as one of the more quickly attainable goals out of the many they have to wait on until Democrats lose power to legislate, thus more like a canary in a coal mine.

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Response to piddyprints (Original post)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 02:29 PM

34. 100 Recs.

They don’t care that it would be nine months of heartache and risk for the people they deny.

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Response to mahina (Reply #34)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 03:09 PM

38. Of course they don't.

I know it's mean, but I have several times wished ectopic pregnancies on some of my in-laws who are militant anti-choicers. Not like my wishes come true or anything. I just think the lack of compassion should come back to bite them a bit.

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Response to piddyprints (Reply #38)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 03:21 PM

44. I swear it's rooted in misogyny

I guess that’s obvious but people get grossed out and we can’t even talk about women’s health because vaginas are icky. (/sarc)

If people who had ectopic pregnancies and miscarriages and all the possible sorrows could speak of it without being shooshed and shamed these people might understand.

Or am I being naive thinking they (6 supremes) don’t know what happens to us?

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Response to mahina (Reply #44)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 03:33 PM

46. But it's ok

to talk about penises and make little blue pills so they can stay hard for as long as possible.

I agree with you 100%.

The 6 supremes (What a misnomer!) know what happens to us. They just don't care.

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Response to mahina (Reply #34)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 03:43 PM

48. For some of us..

it was actually a lot more than just nine months of heartache and risk. My daughter didn't get her act together until she was almost 40, no matter how much (or how little) I tried to help. We're close now, but damn... there were days. When my ex shipped her back home from Guam to me, one of cats crawled into a wall and died. It was the same cat I came home one day to find her pouring gasoline all over. I always will say he died because he knew she was coming back and wanted no part of it - that's how bad it was at that time.

My pregnancy was awful. I had pre-eclampsia and something else I can't remember now, it was so long ago and I was in the military at the time. Never saw the same OB two weeks in a row. *I* caught that they had mis-typed my blood type. When I came in to the AF, they typed me A+ (same as my Dad). OB typed me as O-. So, they typed it again. Came out as O-. I also gained a HUGE amount of weight that I lost immediately after birth. My BP was so high I was put on weekly visits where they drew 5 vials of blood every visit and had me go through the same tests each week - again, a different doc each week. Meanwhile, I was sick as a dog.

During all this, we PCS'd from Albuquerque to San Antonio. El Paso is a vague memory between bouts of vomiting. But at least Wilford Hall Hospital (at the time at Lackland AFB) was top notch. I was immediately put into "Problem OB" and tested every week. Sometime after mid-Feb, I noticed the baby started kicking less frequently and with less vigor. I mentioned it at a visit, but it took a few more weeks worth of visits before it was actually looked into. It was at that point they realized the umbilical cord had come unattached from the baby. They had me come into the hospital the next day for labor tests. BTW... I'm still on active duty during all this!

They induced labor the next day. They started "easy"; I didn't even feel the labor pains, but each time the "pain" would start the baby's heartbeat would stop. So they stopped labor and immediately took me in for a C-section. Susie was born shortly after noon on 3/3/76. She'd been deprived of food and nutrients for at least 3 weeks before I could get anyone to pay attention to me telling them she wasn't acting right inside of me. She weighed 3lbs when she was born; and was in Neo-Natal ICU for 2 months. She came home in doll clothes I picked up at Kay Bee Toy Store.

We immediately went through a hydracephalitis scare with her. Next came the possibility of cystic fibrosis. Then came actual pneumonia. She would have pneumonia in San Antonio winters every year. I gave up being able to bring her North to see snow and meet the family. Then, around 4 the behavioral disorders started in. This was before ADD and ADHD was recognized. As a Psych major, I knew about them and was trying to treat it with structure, schedules and sugar restrictions. I'd get things steady and then she'd take off with her father (we were divorced by then) and it'd go all to hell and it'd take me two weeks to get her back to normal and the cycle would start all over again. I think I had the only kid who was kicked out of daycare for behavior; or, at least, it felt like that! (LOL) She caught Covid-19 when TFG was in office and it turned into Long Haul Covid; she's still fighting it. In the back of my mind, I have to wonder if all that was wrong with her at birth put her at risk for the Long Haul and what waits for her in the future. Beyond the Long Haul Covid, she already fights two autoimmune diseases, as do I.

My OB recommended after her birth for me to get my tubes tied. He didn't need to convince me. All he had to say was it would be very risky, possibly deadly, for me to get pregnant again. I hated being pregnant. I will give credit to Wilford Hall Neo-Natal NICU. I honestly don't think Susie would have made it if not for them. She nearly died several times and they brought her through every time. And, since hubs and I were both military, all I had to do was listen to a lecture about not starting sex too early again (no problem... he ain't -touching me-!) and we walked out without owing a dime. I know how lucky I am, especially on the latter.

Still... I had to fight to get my tubes tied since I was under 30. I had to bring my medical records WITH the OB's Recommendation and Reason before they'd consent to tie my tubes. And even then, I came out of the "sleep state" before they were completely finished, and always WILL think they did that on purpose!

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Response to slightlv (Reply #48)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 12:10 PM

85. What an ordeal!

Thank you for sharing that. I wish the best for you and your daughter.

Good on you for getting your tubes tied! Doesn't sound like they treated you very respectfully, though.

My OB/GYN at the time couldn't do it because I was in a Catholic hospital. Then I'd have to wait a number of weeks to get it done elsewhere because I'd had a c-section. And I couldn't take the pill because I was high risk of blood clots. So my husband said I'd been through enough and got a vasectomy.

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Response to piddyprints (Reply #85)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 03:14 PM

90. My husband got a vasectomy

immediately after the birth of our daughter, upon advise of my ob. He'd already had 2 kids (one with me and a previous wife) and didn't want anymore, anyway. But I hope your hubby weathered it better than mine! I was still hobbling around from the C-Section and waiting on him after his vasectomy! The howls coming from him was worse than those coming from me! (LOL) At those moments, I was actually glad Susie was still at the hospital! It would have scared her to death!

And no, the "women's clinic" where they performed my tubal ligation did NOT treat me very respectfully at all, IMNSHO; especially not when as I leave the room in tears from pain. I had trouble taking the pill, too, btw. Was always on the lowest form of estrogen available and still had trouble with it. But I sure knew I didn't want anymore pregnancies! Why these men think we women don't know our own minds is beyond me. They think we'll forget all about the pain, etc., and just yearn to give up our bodies for another 9 months of living hell and then continue on for another 18+ years of giving up body, mind, and soul for the person we bring into the world. Cause if you're not ready to commit to that, you're not ready to be pregnant. The proof of that is all around us - especially today, with all the sociopaths and psychopaths we see in the Magat community. It takes hard, continuous, dedicated, loving work to create a humane individual who values community and society as a whole.

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Response to piddyprints (Original post)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 03:14 PM

41. You said it so well. Thank you

I hated being pregnant too.
Only once did I allow it.
Have not had a abortion but know plenty who have and for good reasons.

I experienced being a mother and now a grandmother but many of us cannot for a myriad of reasons and those reason seem to be largely ignored. More need to bring there stories in the form of an essay as this one.

Glad you survived sister.
Many have not.

Peace

Kick and rec!

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Response to AKwannabe (Reply #41)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 03:28 PM

45. Thank you!

I sometimes wonder how many of us admit how much we hated being pregnant. The pious ones, of course, loved every minute and everything worked out, doubtless because of their "faith." Well, unless it didn't, but then it was "God's will."

Although I have been pro-choice for as long as I can remember, I was not aware of how dangerous pregnancy and childbirth can be. It's not like my mom ever talked to me about it. Me: "Hey Mom, how do I know when I'm in labor?" Her: "Oh, you'll know!"

I really think there should be more discussion on this. I have noticed that several medical dramas have tried to tackle the issue when the mother has certain illnesses (cancer, TB, diabetes, etc.), and I applaud them. But I think we need some non-fictional dialog going on instead of treating it as if it's just another day at the park.

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Response to piddyprints (Original post)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 04:07 PM

49. SERIOUSLY TREMENDOUS BIG HUG COMING YOUR WAY

And my first instinct was to make some comparison about my pregnancy to yours, but in the grand scheme of things your story is your story. My story is my story.

An aside: As I was in labor for my son, there was a nurse that implied that I was somehow being wimpy about my labor. "Women have babies every day." That's what she said to me.

My reply was, "Yeah, but *I* don't."

If ever there was a case to be made for INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY, this would be it.

Never, ever should there be a case of "states rights" vs. the federal government when it comes to pregnancy and delivery.

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Response to MissMillie (Reply #49)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 11:19 AM

72. MissMillie ...



Thank you.

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Response to piddyprints (Original post)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 07:22 PM

54. Thank you for your post!

Last edited Fri Dec 3, 2021, 10:26 AM - Edit history (1)

Did not enjoy my pregnancy either and although it seems mild compared to yours had to replace numerous dental crowns caused by tooth enamel erosion from vomiting over 20x’s a day for 7 months. Then after all those months of copious bile, over days of labor…..

And what about the fact that what 1/3 of us develop pelvic floor issues as an encore?

The mortality rate is higher than military service or jobs in firefighting, logging or law enforcement.

I really want this conversation turned around. I want us to be asking these creeps how the state will compensate women for the pain, suffering, and risk of life involved in producing a child against her will.

The few women who enjoy the blissful pregnancies should be grateful for their good luck, full stop. Instead of thinking, therefore, that they have the right to impose such an experience on anyone else.

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Response to Tumbulu (Reply #54)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 11:39 AM

77. Yikes!

I like your idea of asking how we will be compensated. But as it is, they don't even want to feed and cloth the children they're making us have against our will.

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Response to piddyprints (Reply #77)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 03:30 PM

91. Except this sort of shaming women for the fact that we can produce a baby

might not be so effective on the younger generations.

I do think that they may be able to turn the tables on these people.

I guess hope springs eternal.

But in my opinion, we must try.

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Response to piddyprints (Original post)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 08:56 PM

58. Thank you for your story.

Thank you for this thread. Your OP - and most of the replies to it - have been appreciated.

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Response to Solly Mack (Reply #58)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 11:38 AM

76. Thank you!

I do appreciate all the replies and hearing other people's stories.

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Response to piddyprints (Original post)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 09:01 PM

59. i still haven't heard about govt child support for forced birth.

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Response to pansypoo53219 (Reply #59)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 09:06 PM

60. Me neither, we need to demand to know how they will pay for this

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Response to pansypoo53219 (Reply #59)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 11:41 AM

78. And you won't.

Once it's breathing, it's a burden on society and needs to get a job ASAP.

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Response to piddyprints (Original post)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 09:41 PM

61. Damn right.

That was beautifully stated and touched on so many of the key points.

As a mother, I know how dangerous and scary pregnancy and childbirth can be.

People need to mind their own damn business. If a woman chooses to end a pregnancy, for whatever reason, that should be her decision and her's alone. And I don't care what her reason is. It is NONE OF MY BUSINESS.

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Response to Kath2 (Reply #61)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 11:20 AM

73. Exactly.

So much of this is an invasion of our privacy and autonomy. I really don't understand why every woman doesn't see this.

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Response to piddyprints (Original post)

Thu Dec 2, 2021, 10:49 PM

63. Similar situation (Big Hug)

I hated being pregnant too. I Was sick the whole time .
Labor and Birth nearly killed both my son and myself .

The Doctor asked my husband "if things went south who to save me or my son"

both my son and I survived thankfully.

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Response to proud patriot (Reply #63)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 11:36 AM

75. I'm glad you survived.

The number of replies here is actually surprising me, but so much makes my point. This is not something that should be decided by anyone else.

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Response to piddyprints (Reply #75)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 10:49 PM

92. Much love to you

and thanks for the OP ... was needed

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Response to piddyprints (Original post)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 12:36 AM

65. If men could get pregnant.....

they wouldn't experience what you did. First of all the population growth would drop to about 10%. If a man did want to have the baby it would be all costs paid for, leave for an unlimited amount of time, free child care costs from birth to graduating from college. They would probably get a cash incentive too. There are about 1,000 other things that would be better for men than women too. No comparison.

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Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #65)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 11:43 AM

79. If they actually gave birth,

they would do it exactly once. And then they'd still have all those benefits for that one baby. Can't argue with you.

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Response to piddyprints (Original post)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 12:47 AM

66. My wife loved being pregnant

despite all the pains and problems, and we have three wonderful (now grown) children.

But our fourth child, little Joshua, came early at 23 weeks and I held him in my arms until his heart stopped beating. He wasn't fully formed, is all I can say. There was no way he could have survived at that stage.

These anti-abortion fanatics are cruel, sadistic, sick in both mind and soul.

Mississippi goddamn!

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Response to ymetca (Reply #66)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 11:44 AM

80. Some women do.

I always envied them.

I am so sorry about Joshua. That is a heartbreak they ignore as well.

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Response to piddyprints (Original post)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 08:44 AM

67. I shared paragraphs 5 and 6 ("who the f***...")

And absolutely everyone agreed with me (I have a pretty liberal circle of friends and relatives) except one, my HS friend Pat, a hyper-Catholic. She didn’t call me a baby-murderer, just “we have been praying for this day, the Bible says not to kill.” I’m not surprised at her comment, just got me thinking about how, to the “pro-life” crowd, it’s almost like we women are not part of the equation. How could she read about the horrors of pregnancy and not even acknowledge that as part of the issue. Like we’re just supposed to cheerfully submit our bodies and health to their version of “morality” and say nothing. And submit is what they want, without saying as much. We are not fully human, just vessels.
It’s not 1970 anymore. As others have said, if SCOTUS does as predicted, this will be the first time in history that they have actually taken away rights. I wish I had a solution but minority rule will somehow be the end of this country. It cannot stand.

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Response to Freddie (Reply #67)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 11:53 AM

82. They get it so wrong.

First off, they misinterpret their Bible. It actually supports the view that life begins with breath or later. Jesus did not say one word about abortion, not even cryptically. He talked often and clearly about feeding and clothing the poor, as well as how the pious SOB hypocrites will actually not be spending eternity with him, as they so often think they will be.

And if we're not supposed to kill because the Bible says so, why are they so pro-gun, pro-war, anti-social programs, anti-vaccine, etc.? They are not consistent in their thinking at all, but they don't care because it's all emotional for them and, as I said upthread somewhere, "fire insurance."

Yes, it will be the first time they have taken away rights. I, too, wish I had a solution.

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Response to piddyprints (Original post)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 11:31 AM

74. Another thing about Amy's un empathetic, tone deaf, adoption comment:

Most single moms now keep their babies.

The pro-life people got rid of the single parent, social stigma.


My niece had her first when she was 16.
Her parents were pro-choice, they didn't pressure her either way.
My beautiful, highly intelligent niece attended an upscale HS in the Chicago suburbs.
Despite her parents being lower-end millionaires, my niece qualified for social services because she was single and pregnant. (But this is Illinois, not some redneck southern state)
She kept her baby
My brother and his wife were extremely supportive and helpful and treated their granddaughter as their own.
My niece never went to college
She became a beautician
In 2018, she married briefly, moved to another state and became pregnant again.
By the time she had the baby, she had split from husband and was going through a divorce.

A month later her, her mom was diagnosed with an aggressive cancer, so her parents could not help with this child.

Niece could not take care of her newborn on her own and moved back home. This time her parents were in Texas and baby's father is is in another state.

Her ex got her new baby.



Her mom died last year


Now, she's messed up
She puts suicidal posts on Facebook from time to time.


(If I would have gotten pregnant in HS, I don't know WTF my parents would have done, but it would not have been pretty. Pretty sure I would have been "sent away" and then been grounded for life afterward)

I hear where people are coming from with the adoption issue, mainly because there is a shortage of newborn infants available for couples who have fertility issues. (Two of my cousins adopted their children because they couldn't get pregnant) However, as a justice, ACB never should have made that comment.

But the fact is Amy: Most single moms who go through pregnancy keep their babies.

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #74)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 12:03 PM

83. I did not know that.

I'm so sorry for your niece. Such a sad outcome.

One of my HS classmates had a baby in her junior year. At the time, I know she had plenty of support. She came to school with cute stories about her daughter. And she graduated. I didn't stay in touch with her and have never been to a reunion, but I do wonder how things worked out for her.



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Response to piddyprints (Reply #83)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 12:08 PM

84. Yes, both her parents were college educated

All of her aunts and uncles were also college educated etc.

Up in Illinois, they had a program that was going to put her in nursing school.

But her parents moved to Texas after she graduated from HS, so that never happened.

It is very sad.
Just a beautiful doe-eyed girl..

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #84)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 12:12 PM

86. I almost wrote

that I thought she'd have been happier if she'd continued her education.

More and more, I am convinced that the plan is to keep us uneducated, poor, and dependent on men.

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Response to piddyprints (Reply #86)

Fri Dec 3, 2021, 12:21 PM

88. She could have become a nurse in Texas

Her parents had the money and resources.

She just was no longer interested and she was a HS graduate at the time.

The program in Illinois was a HS program, but there was a transition to community college etc.

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