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Sat Dec 11, 2021, 10:45 AM

Why was the candle factory in Mayfield KY...

..operating full blast - 110 people in the building - when all indications are that tornado warnings went out hours before?
Same with the Amazon warehouse.

Did those companies ignore the warnings and keep people in the buildings? The Teevee is saying that one super-tornado was on the ground for 200 miles. Were there any "take shelter" warnings?

NOT from a tornado area, so I don't know how people normally deal with tornado threats.

Oh... and Welcome to Climate Change.

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Arrow 37 replies Author Time Post
Reply Why was the candle factory in Mayfield KY... (Original post)
albacore Dec 2021 OP
CincyDem Dec 2021 #1
lame54 Dec 2021 #24
A HERETIC I AM Dec 2021 #36
bucolic_frolic Dec 2021 #2
Celerity Dec 2021 #29
Wingus Dingus Dec 2021 #3
Cracklin Charlie Dec 2021 #10
Wingus Dingus Dec 2021 #11
jimfields33 Dec 2021 #4
albacore Dec 2021 #15
former9thward Dec 2021 #25
Ms. Toad Dec 2021 #34
albacore Dec 2021 #37
liberal N proud Dec 2021 #5
xmas74 Dec 2021 #17
ShazamIam Dec 2021 #6
getagrip_already Dec 2021 #7
Tetrachloride Dec 2021 #8
bullwinkle428 Dec 2021 #9
llashram Dec 2021 #12
underpants Dec 2021 #13
WhiskeyGrinder Dec 2021 #14
luvs2sing Dec 2021 #16
xmas74 Dec 2021 #18
wildflowergardener Dec 2021 #19
ProfessorGAC Dec 2021 #28
AkFemDem Dec 2021 #20
nitpicker Dec 2021 #21
nitpicker Dec 2021 #22
Sympthsical Dec 2021 #23
MissB Dec 2021 #26
traitorsgalore Dec 2021 #27
Takket Dec 2021 #30
BumRushDaShow Dec 2021 #32
Ms. Toad Dec 2021 #35
pinkstarburst Dec 2021 #31
NickB79 Dec 2021 #33

Response to albacore (Original post)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 10:48 AM

1. Christmas rush? n/t

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Response to CincyDem (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 03:32 PM

24. Is that a valid reason?

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Response to lame54 (Reply #24)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 09:41 PM

36. For a factory to be operating 3 shifts?

Of course.

It’s a tragedy. But plenty of businesses who make most of their money in the last quarter operate full song during these months.

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 10:48 AM

2. Did you hear the local doofus officials on TV this morning?

Slow and sleepy, constantly babbling about how independent and resilient their people and communities, praising local firefighters as if they have the capacity to rebuild without federal help. These people are morons. No, worse, they are MORANS!

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Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 06:10 PM

29. Those areas are 'taker' areas. Typical RW baby jeebus dupes & gunners full of hate of the 'other'.

Without the giant blue urban areas they would exist at the level of Ukrainian farmer peasants, yet those areas, those states hate the very things that offer a chance a better life.

They vote MAGAt, and thus vote against their own interests, because the main thing they care about is trying to hurt, torture, maim, and kill the people they, in their stupor of ignorance and hate, despise and fear.

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 10:48 AM

3. Tornado watches don't mean people don't go to work.

They could last all day and maybe nothing materializes, or the tornado misses the area, or it's not destructive. Tornado warnings might deter people from work, but they only usually last an hour at most. This was just a company doing its normal operations, same as the Amazon warehouse.

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Response to Wingus Dingus (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 10:55 AM

10. Sometimes for multiple days.

That was not the case here, however.

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Response to Cracklin Charlie (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 10:57 AM

11. Yep, I've lived in tornado alley, day after day of

tornado watches, years of terrible storm cells, hours sitting in our basement--never got hit, not even a close call.

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 10:48 AM

4. Tornados are random even with notice and they are often this time of year

They’d have to close every day or so. I wouldn’t call this particular situation global warming. Remember they made entire movie on tornadoes called wizard of oz. they’ve been destructive forever.

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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 11:22 AM

15. Climate change causes extreme weather events. This is one example. nt

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Response to albacore (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 03:50 PM

25. Tornadoes have been going on forever.

Tornadoes result in the Midwest because of atmospheric patterns colliding from the Pacific and Gulf areas. So its not an example.

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Response to albacore (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 09:29 PM

34. Umm . . . no.

I grew up with destructive tornadoes 6 decades ago.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #34)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 10:16 PM

37. Ummm... not at clear-cut as you think.

"Fortunately, human-warmed climate isn’t making violent U.S. tornadoes any more frequent. However, climate change may be involved in some noteworthy recent shifts in the location and seasonal timing of the tornado threat.

The total number of U.S. tornadoes observed each year roughly doubled from the 1950s to the 1990s with the advent of more storm spotters and chasers (think “Twister”). Most of these “extra” tornadoes were on the weak side, though, as the more intense ones were already hard to miss. The boost provided by more eyes and cameras largely disappears when the count turns to only the 300 to 600 tornadoes per year rated at least EF1 on the Enhanced Fujita Scale (or F1 on the original scale) with top wind gusts of at least 86 mph, ignoring the forgettable “EF zeroes” (EF0s).

Each tornado is a localized creature, which makes it difficult to link to global climate trends. Climate change typically plays out in local fashion by way of broad regional shifts, such as depleted sea ice, warmer oceans, and drier landscapes. Sometimes these shifts are distinct enough from natural variation to signal clearly that human-caused climate change is likely involved. In contrast, tornadoes and their parent thunderstorms are brief and episodic, and they normally vary a great deal over time and space, so it’s tougher to distill long-term trends in their behavior and distinguish those from normal ups and downs.

Nevertheless, a few signals have shown up in tornado seasons over recent decades. Some may be the result of year-to-year or decade-to-decade variability; others could be related to longer-term, human-caused climate change. Here’s what scientists have been noticing.

https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2021/07/climate-change-and-tornadoes-any-connection/

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 10:50 AM

5. They thought it was fake news

Because FOX didn't tell them it was coming.

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 12:18 PM

17. They probably went to work under a watch.

If companies canceled for a watch you'd have days on end with no work.

I worked in a factory once during a warning. Once the sirens sounded the foreman had everyone shut down their machines then take cover. Depending on the machine it can take several minutes.

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 10:50 AM

6. I don't know but the Amazon warehouse fire in Ill is labeled as a mass causalty event but

the story isn't on the big MSN, Google news feeds, it is on yahoo.

https://news.yahoo.com/mass-casualty-incident-amazon-warehouse-090359940.html

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 10:50 AM

7. don't know specifically in these buildings...

but most business I've been in have tornado shelter in place plans and hiding areas. It is not their general policy to send people out into a storm when warnings pop up.

Even airports have tornado shelter locations. They may be a joke, but that is their plan.

Shelter in place and hope they don't have guns.

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 10:52 AM

8. Watches and Warnings

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tornado_watch

Watches are vague alerts over a wide area

Warnings are actual tornadoes or

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tornado_warning

Warnings cover a much smaller area.

I don’t know what that area knew

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 10:55 AM

9. When the derecho (tornadic-like wind event) hit Iowa in August, 2020, we were

given a heads-up that the line of storms was approaching, and were told to go to the designated areas within the building deemed safe. This was at my workplace. I realize that tornadoes have deadly random nature about them, but the line of storms that contain them are very much established, so the potential for them can certainly be monitored.

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 11:00 AM

12. got that right

200 miles...

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 11:03 AM

13. Who do you think works in a candle factory?

With what regard do you think management holds them?

Sorry I don’t mean to be crude but that’s the first things I thought of when I saw the horrific 50-100 number of people. In this employment environment (not knowing the options in that specific area) anyone can work almost anywhere. Plus it’s two weeks from Christmas so they were probably (over) working at full capacity.

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 11:08 AM

14. The effort to evacuate/shelter a warehouse is bigger than the risk of a direct hit.

Tornado damage is highly localized -- surely you've heard the stories of houses with rooms sheared in half, with glasses still sitting on a kitchen table in what remains. Capital must never stop!

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 11:38 AM

16. This wasn't a tornado that just dropped out of the sky nearby.

That sucker tracked for hours, across four states for over 250 miles. I can’t help but feel there was plenty of time to get people to safety.

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 12:23 PM

18. As someone who has grown up with 🌪

And been in a F3 I can say that watches only mean that conditions might be favorable to possibly produce one. Warning usually offer 10-15 minutes. In a factory you need to shut everything down before you shelter in place, usually in an inner cafeteria,break room or locker room. Not shutting down some equipment could also cause potential risks and damage, even fire or explosions where you'd have to evacuate an entire plant-in this case during a tornado.

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 12:27 PM

19. Tornado

I think typically you’d be safer in the building than out driving around, This seemed to come up fairly quickly - I wasn’t aware of storms until my phone warning went off then it was tornado warning after tornado warning. Stayed in the basement pretty much all evening though I had no trouble at my house in St. Louis County.

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Response to wildflowergardener (Reply #19)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 05:46 PM

28. Being In A Car Is Among The Worst Places To Be

If a tornado touches down nearby, a car can become a plane without wings. Experts say one is better getting out of a car and lying in a ditch if caught in a twister.
Being inside is normally much safer, unless of course, one is a in a large building with the roof unencumbered by other structures. (Like the warehouses or factories being discussed.)
That's why the rest rooms are often the safest places. For plumbing reasons they are usually all interior walls, and not likely to have windows. Also, they often have overhead ventilation, which puts at least something in the way to break the fall of roof pieces.
Now, if the whole roof comes down, that might not be much help. But, for all our sites which were tornado vulnerable, bathrooms were very commonly the tornado safe room.

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 12:34 PM

20. If everything shut down every time there was a chance of tornados...

The entire eastern half of the country would be shutting down every time a thunderstorm neared. Even in my federal offices, with probably the strictest OSHA and hazard training and compliance, we ran an annual tornado drill and called it good. If a Watch was issued, then we’d keep tabs. If it turned into a Warning, we’d move into our “safe space”. We didn’t shut down though.

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 01:06 PM

21. Given the increased propensity of NWS to issue tornado warnings

For many many severe thunderstorms with rotation... versus earlier "tornado on the ground"...

People may have thought NWS was being alarmist again.

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 01:09 PM

22. And even with derecho 2012

NWS didn't start jumping up and down in the DC area until it was almost on us.

Straight line winds took out four trees in the backyard, but not the back fence.

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 02:49 PM

23. Amazon distribution has to be done overnight

I worked in the office of a distribution center for a little while, so I know the routine.

A local distribution center receives trucks full of Amazon boxes that have been assembled elsewhere. Could be local, could be from across the country. The distribution center is intended to gather up all the boxes from around the country that will be delivered people generally within a 10-15 mile radius.

The big trailer trucks mainly come at night and are unloaded. All the packages are sent down lines and sorted into sections. Each of these sections have their own lines. People then pull the items into rows lined with heavy bags that are organized by letter and number. (If you look at an Amazon delivery, you'll usually see a yellow sticker with something like G 13-4D or whatever. Section G, Row 13, Column 3 Box D). The bags are filled and set aside. The morning crew then comes (it was 5:30A for my location) and starts moving the bags that filled overnight to a staging area. The Amazon delivery vans are already coming through to be loaded that early.

Same and next day delivery means everything is unloaded, sorted, and prepared for delivery overnight.

Some stuff happens during the day, but the bulk of next day delivery organizing happens from 6pm-4AM.

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 03:52 PM

26. That's exactly what I woke up angry about today

It’s absolutely unconscionable that those facilities were not shut down overnight.

Lives are worth more than any lost business.

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 05:26 PM

27. It's a majority R area, they likely don't believe in sciences like meteorology

They definitely believe money is more precious than life, especially worker's lives.

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 06:13 PM

30. wow....... can't believe some of the things I'm reading in this thread.......

First off, nothing shuts down for a tornado WATCH. That is merely a "heads up" from NWS that conditions might be ripe in your area for tornado formation in the coming hours. Businesses do not shut down, schools are open, sporting events occur, people are not sent home. Life carries on.

As storms form, NWS looks for signs of rotation in wind. At that point a warning is issued. Once a warning is issued, above all else you DO NOT GO OUTSIDE. Watch TV if you have access to one as your local news is likely showing exactly where the tornado is and its anticipated track.

During a severe storm even if you are not in the "bullseye" of the tornado STAY INDOORS. If you are already outdoors, SEEK SHELTER. Even an outhouse is better for you than staying outside. There is lightning, flash flooding, flying debris from tornadoes and straight line winds... the idea being put out by some here that the candle company somehow is a heartless corporation that doesn't care about its employees because it didn't send them outside DURING A TORNADO WARNING is DUMBFOUNDING to me. Even if the company knew the tornado was heading right for their front door, you do NOT GO OUTSIDE.

You are safer at your place of work than you would ever be trying to "evacuate" during a severe storm. Unfortunately there is no guarantee of anything and there is really not much that can be done about a direct him from a tornado.

Now... there are fair questions to ask...........

Did the company know a tornado was coming (i.e. were tornado sirens active?) Did they have a tornado plan in place? (i.e. where people were supposed to go in the building... doorways, lower levels if possible, etc.....) Were employees trained in the plan? or were they all just going about their business clueless as to what was about to happen...

Here is a good link on what to do during a tornado.

https://www.weather.gov/safety/tornado-during

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Response to Takket (Reply #30)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 07:00 PM

32. "Did the company know a tornado was coming (i.e. were tornado sirens active?)"

NWS issued 9 TORE (Tornado Emergency) alerts (which are a higher level than a Warning), that would have been blasted across any outlet that does broadcasts (TV, AM/FM radio, weather radios) and would have been sent across the cell network in the affected geographic areas to anyone with a newer cell phone that is WEA-capable with an EAS alert (most around nowadays are).

WEA
Ready.gov

I posted the tweets of the TOREs here - https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=2839189

When they send the alerts, they usually include brief instructions on what to do.

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Response to Takket (Reply #30)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 09:38 PM

35. Thank you!

The knee-jerk reactions that plants should have been shut down - but weren't for economic reasons - indicates we need a lot better education about tornadoes.

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 06:45 PM

31. Some speculation

I'm sure more answers will be forthcoming in the coming days... but I'm from Texas where we have tornados.

If there is just a watch, life goes on as normal, but you are more alert. Tornado watches are pretty common. A tornado warning is where you get concerned, but even then, it's more of a get the news on and follow the actual path of the storm to see if it is traveling towards you, while you are hopefully sheltering somewhere safe.

As for sheltering somewhere safe... that isn't always possible in some of these places? I've worked at places where the assigned location to shelter in place is the gym--apparently the safest location on campus, but not necessarily as good as an interior room of your house at home. So if you're working in a warehouse... what are your good options. A warehouse is likely pretty flimsy construction with a roof that is prone to collapsing. Getting in your car and driving isn't a good choice in a tornado either.

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Response to albacore (Original post)

Sat Dec 11, 2021, 07:16 PM

33. Our factory has tornado drills every 6 months

We have an extensive basement system that serves as our shelter in place location, and our drill requires all 100 employees to get to the the basement within 4 minutes of the alarm being activated. We have weather radios in all management offices to warn of severe weather heading our way.

I just can't comprehend how this happened.

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