Rant On: OK, I know this might be unpopular and some will call me brutal, however,

[RKP5637]

As I understand it many hospitals are understaffed, over saturated, and do not have the capacity to handle an on-surge of Omicron patients. To me, people with Covid that have willfully not protected themselves, (no vaccines) should be at the bottom of the list for admission. Patients needing other treatments at the hospital, non-Covid should be admitted. Some might die in this process, but that was essentially their choice IMO. Rant Off.

[XanaDUer2]

1. That's said all the time here nt

[uponit7771]

2. K&R, I'm mostly done with people who aren't doing the most to protect themselves

[IrishAfricanAmerican]

3. Field hospitals...

for the unvaccinated.

[Sherman A1]

5. I would hate to burden the unvaccinated with any of this medical or science stuff

They can simply do their own research and stay at their home computers while doing it, leaving the rest of us to move about much more safely.

[overleft]

28. They should have to pay their own medical costs as well.

If a free solution (vaccine) is available, why should the government or an insurance provider have to pay the way. What they are doing is by a their own free will.

[usaf-vet]

56. I read at least one article that suggest insurance companies are on the verge of NOT paying for.....

.... non vaccinated ICU patients.

Anyone else heard about this possibility.

Pre-existing conditions? ID 10T itis. Right?

[paleotn]

122. Rumors only, but it make perfect sense.

At the very least, charge them higher premiums to cover the increased risk. That's the whole point in insurance. Risk coverage, plus profit. Works that way for tobacco users. I really don't see a difference.

[citizen blues]

141. Initially, insurance companies waived deductibles and copays

for COVID-19 patients requiring hospitalization. They've already stopped doing that because of the unvaccinated.

Unfortunately, what that's going to lead to is probably a massive wave of medical bankruptcies which all of us will feel as people walk away from far more than just medical bills.

[inthewind21]

76. Oh don't worry

That insurance provider will pass that cost on and YOU and I will pay for it. In higher premiums or with our tax money, one way or another it WILL be passed on. I am all for insurance not paying for ANY COVID related treatment if you are still unvaccinated. I am also for allowing Hospitals to designate X amount of beds for COVID, those vaccinated are priority, if that space fills I'm perfectly ok with the hospital turning the un-vaxxed away.

[wnylib]

51. Let them eat Ivermectin.

[Botany]

6. Yup!

Make sure they are heated and cooled as needed, palliative care only, if O2 is in short supply
then do not give them supplemental O2, all the pain killers they want, minimize exposure to
medical personal*, wood and metal framed cots that can become coffins, no monoclonal antibody
treatments if other people who got break through cases or could not get the shot need those drugs,
and bring in back hoes to dig trenches to put the anti vaccine people's bodies into right next to the
field hospital.

In Columbus, OH a large local hospital is shutting down cancer surgeries because these idiots who
refused to get vaccinated are overwhelming the hospital's bed space.





* along with others too

[Nevilledog]

15. The cots that become coffins is a nice touch.

[Botany]

19. I have been pushing this idea for months ... I'm sick of these people who because of political ...

.... thoughts and or disinformation refuse to get the vaccine and then they become hosts to the
virus which then can live on and mutate (variant) and keep the pandemic going and going.

I would put a big I Hook Bolt on one end of the cot/coffin so after the body is sealed into it a
bobcat or lift vehicle can pick up the unit with a chain and take it straight out to be buried.

[Nevilledog]

21. I think it's a great idea.

[k0rs]

45. Just make them combustible

n/t

[uponit7771]

63. +1, sends a not so subtle message

[Nevilledog]

73. We'd still have to write COFFIN on it for the struggling to breathe mouth-breathers

[smirkymonkey]

16. Completely agree with you here.

It just seems to be the only way it makes sense.

[Botany]

22. I will always remember some 12 to 14 year old boy who had cancer could not get into ...

... a hospital in the south last summer because of all the C-19 cases. Poor kid had to sit in
the backseat of a car for over 1/2 a day.

[irisblue]

55. From local news-WOSU

https://news.wosu.org/coronavirus/2021-12-22/central-ohio-hospitals-brace-for-covid-surge?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

snip--"Unfortunately, in recent weeks as people began gathering indoors for the holidays, local ICUs have begun filling up again.

"One in every five ICU beds in Franklin County have a COVID patient in it. And we have a duty to care for them, certainly. But we also have a duty to care for the rest of the population who is now being squeezed out to people who are having heart attacks and strokes who have some type of trauma," said Gastaldo.

Snip--"Typically, rural hospitals and acute care hospitals want to move their sickest of the sick in the Franklin County, they have the stroke and that heart attack and the trauma centers and whatnot, the specialty cancer centers, but we're finding that those beds are very far and few between because of the extra added stress that COVID admissions are putting on. So we're also working to laterally transfer, something we've never done before COVID," said Kovach."

More at source.

[rambler_american]

138. Our daughter's surgery for brain cancer

was postponed for weeks due to the hospital being overwhelmed by Covid cases. An earlier treatment might have prolonged her life. People that refuse to get vaccinated should go to the end of the line and wait until the proctologists have time to treat all those assholes.

[Botany]

139. I'm so sorry. I wish there is something that I could write or say to make you feel better.

Your daughter

[Stinky The Clown]

10. Amen! That's a GREAT idea!!!!

[Rebl2]

14. Absolutely

Let the national guard take care of them

[hadEnuf]

114. Let Rupert Murdoch and Fox Corporation pay the medical bills.

[monkeyman1]

129. he just fold up & run back to Australia !!

[Violet_Crumble]

137. Hell, no. We don't want him! n/t

[Traildogbob]

29. Send them into Allie's

With a coat hanger, they seem fine sending unprotected women that route. Maybe send bounty hunters after unvaccinated.

[Lucky Luciano]

38. Maybe they can be treated by the unvaccinated nurses.

[SimplyHadEnough]

44. Lol

[SimplyHadEnough]

41. That works for me!

I like your idea 💡

[Bettie]

58. Those field hospitals can be staffed

by the healthcare workers who are also unvaccinated.

Fixes two problems and everyone gets care.

[bluestarone]

110. Love this Idea!

Perfect solution!

[AmBlue]

66. Yes!

Field hospitals for the unvaccinated! Staff them with all the unvaccinated nurses and personnel who scoured the internet hunting for some nutjob pastor to email them a blanket vaccine refusal form based on non-existent religious mandates.

These plague rats want to benefit from the protection OUR vaccines provide THEM, but they themselves could care less about doing the same in return for us. So they should be segregated. Keep the plague rats among their own kind and let nature and "natural immunity" take care of them.

Reserve the vaccinated caregivers for vaccinated patients only!!!

[calimary]

125. THIS! If they were that dead-set against taking precautions or getting vaccinated,

Then they can just go to the end of the line, and HOPE they can move up - the long slow way.

We don't have enough beds for all the miscreants who INVITED this to happen with their willful negligence and defiance and following the wrong advice DESPITE all the publicity and the interviews and the coverage of what you're supposed to do and what the guidelines are from the best and most credible and highly-respected medical experts? Then FUCK 'em. Let's stop throwing pearls before swine. Save the best treatment and best hospital staff and bed availability for the sick kids who contracted COVID through NONE of their own fault, or people with legitimate needs for hospitalization and intensive care.

You believed the crap that-guy-whose-name-rhymes-with-Vanity (who also got vaccinated)? Well, then send your complaints and your medical expenses to him at Pox Noise in New York City. He's loaded! He can well afford to help you out!

[Volaris]

4. I'll do you one better: if you show up at the ER for something non-covid related,

And HAVENT had your shots, you're getting that done FIRST, or you can gtfo...heres some painkillers go home and ask Facebook how to set your broken arm, since that's where you want medical practice advice from.

[RockCreek]

54. Yes! N/t

[uponit7771]

64. +1,"... Ask Facebook..."

[IrishAfricanAmerican]

71. 👍🏻

[highplainsdem]

7. I've been running across that opinion more and more, even from doctors.

[ShazzieB]

131. People are getting fed up, that's for sure.

[NewHendoLib]

8. Let the suicide cult fulfill their desires

[CrackityJones75]

9. Literally a daily post here. One I agree with.

[Hortensis]

11. Emergency triage is currently based on who's most likely to live if given

the limited care. Vaccination status is considered as it affects that likelihood.

That said, it seems likely that here and there, some more "deserving" vaccinated people will be prioritized over unvaccinated people. Perhaps even officially where denying care on the basis of being less deserving is not specifically illegal (as it tends to be as for racial, gender, religious reasons). The probability of lawsuits would be a huge brake on it everywhere, though.

This expert is advocating a change of ethical practices to deal with this type of situation, which unless we impose strong government controls on the spread of disease will inevitably recur. Note the kicker. Almost half currently strongly oppose, and many others are not at the point of agreeing, including on the left.

WaPo: Emergency physician Dan Hanfling has written extensively about how to triage care, and he agrees. “If you believe there’s a certain degree of accountability that we as citizens have to take for each other to protect our community, then that group of individuals who have willingly chosen not to vaccinate, for illegitimate reasons, it would be fair to place them at the back of the line. Not kick them out of line, just move them back,” he told me. “At the end of the day, if you have willingly chosen not to do something that benefits the public good in the setting of a national crisis, then there are certain consequences.”

[totodeinhere]

59. No, kick those MAGA idiots out of line.

A few less of them around would be good for this country and the world.

[Hortensis]

69. Fewer who share the depraved indifference to life, and of course

eagerness for the death of others, shockingly prevalent among some on both right and left would be a great improvement. What this era has revealed about too many people is sickening.

We all have to continue to oppose this holocaust, and also to oppose the kind of infectious depravity that would make it possible to morph into something even more evil and lethal. That starts with realizing that such things are possible and the people who could make them happen are among us.

[ShazzieB]

132. I'm with you.

Thanks for saying this.

[Hortensis]

142. Thanks right back. It's growing, and political scientists are alarmed.

Happy holidays.

[meadowlander]

77. It's not unprecedented. If you're on the transplant list for new lungs and keep smoking

you're going to be shit out of luck.

[Hortensis]

87. Right. That also falls under allocating limited resources to

whoever's more likely to survive long term, though, saving decisionmakers from deciding whether the smoker is less deserving of care. Unlike our vaccination refuser, who these days is often an otherwise healthy young person with his whole life ahead.

I'm glad it'll never be my decision and really hope it doesn't come down to this for others, either. In this nation, anyway. I'm sure it will some places where resources are always limited.

[treestar]

86. Yes, they have no consequences

they are always blathering about personal responsibility until it affects them.

As it is, they laugh at us, call us weak, and continue to take advantage.

[Hortensis]

92. And social media hate spreaders the same -- so far. Spreading

lethal disease is extremely stupid and despicable, but so is spreading lethal hates that could cost us all our futures, and let's not fool ourselves cost some of us our lives.

We have grave warnings of those dangers, but some are too caught up in indulging destructive passions not to push on toward the brink. I guess they also think consequences would befall others.

[MontanaMama]

12. It isn't harsh at all.

I’d take it a step further and say no hospital bed and no field hospital either. I don’t believe we have enough medical professionals to staff both. They need to stay home and enjoy their freedumbs so that the rest of us can get some semblance of normalcy back in our lives.

[usaf-vet]

68. As an ex-military medic, I hate the idea of treating mass casualties from failing to get vaccinated.

Ask me to go to a mass casualties situation from tornados, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other "acts of God," and I'd pack up and go in seconds.

But non vaccinated Covid..... I don't know how I would respond if that happened.

[usaf-vet]

74. Staffing. To staff field hospitals most of the doctors and nurses would come from the reserve.....

.... called back to active duty. FROM YOU GUESSED IT, LOCAL HOSPITALS.

During the build-up for Iraq and Afghanistan, I lost a great Army Dentist who had a small practice in a small town 20 miles from me. When our regular dentist of 20+ years retired, the dentist that bought the practice DID NOT keep all of the patients. We had great dental health care insurance, and as a result, our teeth required little care other than regular cleans.

We spent years looking for a new dentist. Most were not taking new patients. I would love to know their screening process. The paragraph above speaks to that.

Field hospitals were downsized when the military when to Tri-Care to take care of active-duty personnel.

A mistake, in my view. As we could use them now. But with the down-sizing of the active-duty Medical Corp across all branches, the opportunity no longer exists without calling up Active Reserves.

[leftstreet]

13. We've had two years to increase healthcare infrastructure

Looks like decades of for profit mergers and hospitals closures might not have been such a good idea

Well, a good idea for investors I guess

[keithbvadu2]

17. Refer them to a doctor who will medicate them as they want.

Refer them to a doctor who will medicate them as they want.

[plimsoll]

25. Does highlight the inherent illogic of the anti-vaxx crowd.

On the other hand there are Drs who agree with them and will prescribe ivermectin, and other treatments.

2 Lines at the ER? Require anti-vaxx influencers to volunteer in non-vaccine facilities?

Despite the anger I see here and feel myself I don't really want these people to die. I want them to come back from whatever delusion they've bought into. I don't see that happening. Too much of their self worth is now wrapped up "owning the libs." I hear that popularity of the J&J vaccine is rising among the anti-vaxx crowd, driven by the fact that it actually does have some lethal side effects. Despite the downside that's actually good news. It isn't as "safe", but it's still safer than Covid19. I can't tell if this is the behavior of toddlers or tweens, but the behavior is driven by opposition.

A truly ugly proposal would have been to use that opposition against them. Elite coastal liberal scientists say strychnine will kill you.

[Traildogbob]

33. Send them to Ron Johnson,

Sarah Palin, Trailer Queen, Tucker or Dr Donny. Put em in a tent and hope those experts come to the clinic. Maybe a veterinarian with the scruples of Florida Surgian General.

[cab67]

18. Not sure if they can do that, but...

...they should make it clear to anyone coming in for treatment for COVID who voluntarily declined to get vaccinated are responsible for the full costs of their treatment. Insurance shouldn't cover it, public support (Medicaid or whatnot) should be withheld, and web sites like Gofundme that enable crowdfunding efforts should refuse to post appeals from their families.

I've had it.

[mwooldri]

20. One thing that should be done: no vax pay more for insurance.

Smokers pay more... Heavy people pay more... Why not unvaxed?

[Paladin]

23. Once again, I fully agree with such a policy. Should be implemented today.

(In)actions = Consequences, motherfuckers.

[Tommymac]

24. Hospice tents, not hospital tents. With all the horse medicine and bleach given for free. No cost.

Maybe even make some organic medical MJ or bourbon whiskey available to help with pain, saving them from the nasty addictive qualities and side effects of opioids.

No way do they get drugs or treatments that will actually help them beat the disease. Those are for those who believe in Science and vaxxed and masked.

They can let evangelicals and wacko new agers run the tents, why burn out real medical personnel.

Everybody wins.

[keithbvadu2]

26. Vaxxed by the blood of Jesus

[Nevilledog]

123. This would be the appropriate tent...

Link to tweet

Tweet text:Avenger Resister
@AvengerResister
Why don’t we set up a circus tent outside the hospital for unvaccinated people to be treated, so they don’t take up hospital beds for patients with other illnesses?
1:20 PM · Dec 22, 2021

[JustAnotherGen]

27. They don't believe in science and the field of medicine

They know so god damn much? The they ought to know how to treat themselves.

My brother and I had a friendly convo about this last night - he just has a really GOOD heart. He's also a two time covid survivor - and is now medically compromised for the rest of his life. He's vaccinated and boosted and cannot comprehend after the physical pain he went through in late February 2020 and March of this year (prior to his 'number' coming up to get the vaccine) - why someone would EVER want to play around with C-19.

But good heart he is - "A - I'm just not cut from the same cloth as you. You be dark for both of us".

I'm with you on this RKP. I'm just done with stupidity, ignorance and people of the lie.

[Joinfortmill]

30. The threat of losing insurance coverage might be an incentive.

[inthewind21]

79. That's assuming

These idiots even have insurance.

[Lisa0825]

118. Many employers (mine included) have a surcharge for tobacco use. Why not a vax refusal surcharge?

With medical exceptions for legitimate conditions, of course.

[housecat]

31. give them what they want -- no vax no mask no science no hospital

[nevergiveup]

32. So if you had a young adult son or daughter

who was unvaccinated would you still feel this way? Just curious.

[BlueKentuckyGirl]

36. Depends

I'll answer that for myself. If they are willfully unvaccinated, yes, I would. If they are too young to receive the vaccine, no.

[inthewind21]

81. I'll answer

Yes. 100% However, I didn't raise fools who get all their information on FB and Google and believe JFK is coming back from the dead and the South will rise again!

[Alien Life Form]

34. I agree

I told the Governor here that unvaccinated should not receive treatment.., he said he would be sued if he did that but I still think its a good idea.

[IronLionZion]

35. They can stay home and take as much ivermectin, HCQ, etc. as they want

Since they don't know what's in any of the medicines and treatments they would receive at the hospital. It could be nefarious deep state stuff to make them magnetic. thoughts and prayers

[BradBo]

37. It's a hard question. Here is my partial solution.

My wife says throw the unvaccinated out. We can’t do that. Drop insurance rates by at least 10 percent for vaccinated. Raise the insurance rate for the unvaccinated 10percent. That’s a 20 percent swing.

[inthewind21]

84. Not enough

When 45 days in ICU on a ventilator can run in the millions.

[Gilbert Moore]

39. Sorry, but screw the unvaxxed !

SIL has her knee replacement surgery postponed twice because of hospital overloads.

It's over a month ago, but she got the call to be ready . . .

Left her home at 4 an to be there by 5 for an 8am operation. . .

Followed by Surgical ICU, Recovery and the last stop of the day was her bed at home, when they arrived at 11pm THE SAME DAY !

Drive thru knee replacement surgery.

Not my America ! ! !

[3catwoman3]

130. Same thing now with total hip replacement.

Right hip done in 2013 - 2 night hospital stay. Left hip done this September. Arrival about 5:00 AM for 7:00 surgery. I was home by 7:00 PM. It was a little daunting.

[onecaliberal]

40. What's wrong with the bleach treatments rec'd by their dear leader?

No hospital necessary.

[ismnotwasm]

42. My hospital is currently sending a lot of Covid elsewhere in its system

It’s a four hospital system and We are a major surgery center as well as a hospital that accepts more of the underserved population. We are connected with a major Cancer care center. We have units devoted to highly immunosuppressed patients, such as bone marrow transplant. Chemotherapy.

I work in solid organ transplant. Another immunosuppressed population.

We only have a few Covid right now. But that’s because we are carefully managing numbers as long as possible.

AND we are full, as in boarding patients every where there is a nook or a cranny. We cannot accommodate a wave from elsewhere in the state, or out of state. This is a highly vaxxed area (Seattle), so we are not overwhelmed at the moment as is other parts of the state or country, but again, we won’t be able to take folks from other areas in, as we have done in the past.

It’s a natural triage, if you will

We are waiting though. We know a wave is coming. Another one.

[AncientAndy]

43. That's a pretty stupid idea.

Instead of admitting them into the hospital and keeping them isolated, you would send them out into the world to infect more people with Covid. I’d rather they were in the ICU than standing next to me in the line at Walgreens.

[yardwork]

113. A person who needs an ICU isn't going to be standing in line anywhere.

[Zeitghost]

46. Hospitals are full of people...

Who have continually made poor choices regarding their health despite having mountains of evidence readily available that shows how dangerous those choices are.

Those same people require the majority of our healthcare resources and have for decades.

Now that a particular group is easily (but often wrongly) associated with a political party we don't like, some of you want to set aside well established medical ethics in order to punish them.

Think about that for a second.

[inthewind21]

90. You are correct, hospitals are full of people.

Your assertion that they are FULL of people who made poor choices is incorrect. Right now, our hospitals are FULL of people who are walking incubators of a virus. Now, the people who "made poor choices" those people pay an additional premium to have insurance. Examples, people who are smokers, people who are obese, etc. However, a smoker sneezing in public is not likely to turn everyone around them into a smoker OR make anyone obese. So when you come down off your soap preaching at everyone, YOU think about that for a second.

[Zeitghost]

107. Wasted healthcare resources are the real issue

And that's not limited to COVID.

[Rabrrrrrr]

47. To all the anti-vaxxers I say, you can't be a political martyr unless you actually die. So get to it

fuck 'em.

[liberalmuse]

48. If people refuse the vaccine because they don't trust science

or peer reviewed, accredited research, WTF are they going to the hospital? These people should be staying home eating apple-flavored horse paste, drinking bleach and sticking lightbulbs up their asses because that is the "research" they have entrusted to keep them safe. In the meantime my uncle has lung cancer and I am so afraid these fuckwits are going to kill him between refusing to mask up, vaccinate and using up precious medical resources he will need to stay alive. Nothing is too harsh for these selfish assholes as far as I'm concerned.

[iluvtennis]

50. agree, if they don't believe in science, why are they taking up space at hospitals. n/t

[ShazzieB]

133. They go to the hospital when it gets so bad that they're desperate.

That's what it comes down to: sheer desperation. It's pretty easy to play the denial game as long as you're fit as a fiddle and feeling fine or even just a little bit under the weather. There's a line, though, that people cross where all of a sudden the denial doesn't work any more. I suspect that line is in a different place for different people, but it's there, somewhere between "short of breath" and "omg I can't get any air in my lungs omg omg." Once that line is crossed, and they know they're good and screwed, they head for the only place that they know might be able to help them: the hospital.

Desperation can make people do things they never thought they would do under "normal" (non-desperate] circumstances. It's a very powerful thing.

[iluvtennis]

49. Like what happened in Italy last year during height of COVID, the prioritization of who is treated

will occur. It was so sad when the 70/80/older patients were just left in the hallways on gurneys to die.

But unlike Italy at the start of this pandemic, we now have vaccines to prevent getting critically ill with Covid. The 50 million+ in the US that are un-vaccinated need to wake up and get vaccinated.

[JustAnotherGen]

53. Younger than that

A 28 year old male diabetic would be left out - and a 50 year old healthy male prior to covid - would be treated.

Nurse is a RN - going to medical school in Northern Italy. She thought when she left Medcin Sans Frontier she was over that.

[iluvtennis]

103. OK, thanks for the correction. much appreciated. n/t

[OnlinePoker]

52. Where do you draw the line?

People who smoke...no lung cancer treatment for you. People who overeat and are obese...no heart treatment for you. People who do risky sports...no reconstructive surgery for you.

If we based hospital admissions on past actions, hardly anybody would be in the hospital and would all be dying at home.

[totodeinhere]

60. If people are stupid enough to smoke then yes, put them at the end of the line too.

This country has way too many stupid people already. We could do with less of them. But regarding obesity, not everyone who is obese is personally to blame for that condition so I would not exclude them.

[oldsoftie]

136. Well, thats not the way THIS country works. Might as well euthanize 'em too, right?

I mean, it doesnt look good for Aunt Jane, just go ahead and end it so we can use the bed for someone else

[uponit7771]

65. Smoking is addictive, overeating can include other health problems, risky

.... sport is subjective especially with even those you could take precautions.

But idiots are willingly against the vaccine despite the overwhelming amount of information that it's safe should not go first in a society that is trying to move on past the shock of a pandemic.

[meadowlander]

82. It's easy to get a vaccine.

It isn't easy to reverse lifelong habits with a significant social, cultural and environmental component.

[treestar]

89. those are not as direct causes though

though there is a relation, it is not strictly true.

Vaccines against specific viruses - the result can be attributably to not getting the vaccine.

Smoking and obesity cause everything. But people who don't smoke do get lung cancer. It's not so direct.

[Orrex]

99. Are obesity and lung cancer contagious? Risky sports?

With due respect, your analogy is inherently flawed.

"The line" can easily be drawn at people whose refusal to engage in basic safety thereby constitutes a real and direct threat to others.

If I'm in the ER, and they wheel in a guy who fell off of a rock while free-climbing, I don't worry that I'm going to catch Extreme Daredevilism from him. But if some asshole comes in with COVID because he doesn't wear a mask and isn't vaccinated and went to a buffet banquet with 40 like-minded assholes, then his stubborn and deliberate carelessness is real and direct threat to others.

[Dukkha]

100. Smokers already pay a significantly higher instruance premium

As the saying goes there's no such thing as freedom from consequences. Nobody's so-called "rights" are being infringed it's your choice.

[iluvtennis]

104. We should keep it to Covid - if you're unvaccinated and come to hospital to be treated for covid,

you go to the back of the line.

There is no preventative for cancer and some obesity is due to internal anomaly.

[XanaDUer2]

105. Thank you

My mother was a life-long Democrat who smoked.

[Raine]

134. Thank you, I totally agree nt

[totodeinhere]

57. I agree 100%. Thank you for saying this.

You are not brutal. Just the opposite, to allow those unvaccinated idiots to take up beds needed by other responsible people would be brutal.

[Jilly_in_VA]

61. Agree 100%, and I'm a nurse

Put them in field hospitals in the parking lot, and let unvaxxed staff tend to them. Make sure those hospitals are adequately heated/cooled. They can have oxygen, but no ventilators. No critical care. They brought this on themselves.

[UTUSN]

62. Funny how selective their use of "Choice" is!

[634-5789]

67. Wish I could have said the same thing. Exactly correct!

[GoodRaisin]

70. 2 lists at check in

List 1 = vaccinated, Covid and other serious illnesses (i.e. heart, stroke, etc.)
List 2 = unvaccinated Covid

List 1 needs to be cleared before list 2 gets treatment and beds

[Dukkha]

72. not bottom of the list but total refusal

Give them a Thoughts and Prayers pamphlet and send their asses home.

[NurseJackie]

75. You'll have a difficult time finding many people here who disagree with that.

I think we can open some Army-style field-hospitals with heat/ac and cots... maybe some porta-johns and running water for sanitation. Some meds for pain and anxiety... but no oxygen, no respirators... if they pull-through then good for them. If they don't, then it was god's will.

Around back on the other side of the field, a large mass-grave will be dug. Fill in layers, cover daily... prepare for more unvaxxed, until there are no more unvaxxed.

More unvaxxed = less unvaxxed.

It's a death cult. Give them what they want.

[JustAnotherGen]

97. I like this idea

[meadowlander]

78. Send them to the veterinarian.

[jaxexpat]

80. You can only toss a life-line so many times before you just can't even move your arm.

[crimycarny]

83. Separate hospice tents attended to by unvaccinated nurses/doctors

Those who choose to be unvaccinated by choice can go to a special hospice tent area and be attended by staff that also refused to be vaccinated.

[treestar]

85. I was getting flack for saying

that red Kentucky residents should get no help of the kind they would deny other states for disasters. They claim they don't need no federal gubmint, they can take care of themselves and their kids. For once let them live as they say they want to and see what happens. Helping them anyway is not working - they still vote for Turtle and Rand.

We have so much compassion we help them anyway, though we know they would not help us. Seems like we are more Christian than those who so loudly claim they own the religion.

[TheProle]

88. They / Them / Their / Other, Other, OTHER!

35% of Black adults are unvaccinated.

39% of Hispanic adults are unvaccinated.

Close your eyes and racially integrate your death fantasies and see how self-satisfied you feel then.

Unvaccinated Trumpers are a big problem, but not the whole picture.

Refs:

https://www.vox.com/coronavirus-covid19/22791746/us-covid-19-cases-deaths-race-inequities-vaccine-antiviral
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/fact-sheet/facts-about-the-us-black-population/

[treestar]

91. Stupid enough not to get vaccinated has nothing to do with skin color

The vaccine is free, so poverty has no effect.

So the decision not get the vaccine (with the few legit exceptions) is stupid and willful and dangerous to others.

[TheProle]

94. "poverty has no effect"

sounds like you may be rather selective in which science you choose to follow and which you choose to ignore.


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/health-equity/vaccine-equity.html
https://www.pnas.org/content/118/33/e2107873118
https://www.vox.com/coronavirus-covid19/22791746/us-covid-19-cases-deaths-race-inequities-vaccine-antiviral
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/12/07/1061099570/covid-race-disparities-exposed-by-data-analysts-and-community-leaders

[treestar]

117. these last two apply regardless of race

including structural racism, medical mistrust, and individual vaccine hesitancy (5).

Are you excusing people for not getting it due to those factors so long as they aren't white?

Unfortunately, Americans do not have equitable access to medical care.

We aren't talking about medical care, just the vaccine. The vaccine is available to everyone. And with the ACA, medical care is available to all other than those who refuse to participate.

And we are talking about the vaccine. Those articles address more generally hospitalization for it or treatment for it.

[inthewind21]

93. What exactly

does that have to do with anything? It's been 2 years. TWO YEARS! Vaccinations are available and FREE and have been for well over a year! I don't care what race or ethnicity you are. Nor your political affiliation, (newsflash, it's NOT JUST Republicans) We are well past the time of coddling. GET THE FUCKING VACCINE or die alone in your ignorance. PERIOD!

[pinkstarburst]

95. A large percentage of people requiring

hospitalization have made poor choices that contribute to their situation.

72% of our country is overweight which contributes of a host of health conditions.

Smoking and consuming alcohol puts you at a higher risk for cancer.

Most of the shootings where I live are related to drug deals.

No one has lived a perfect life. Human beings are imperfect. We all make mistakes. And I get that everyone is supremely pissed that people won't get vaccinated. But if we start turning away people we don't like at the door, the next step will be hospitals in certain states turning away LGBT people because they don't like their lifestyle. It is one of the fundamental principles of medicine that you treat the patient in front of you. You don't get to decide who you want to treat based on their politics or your own, which is what this would amount to.

[BlueIdaho]

96. Crisis Standards of Care

Last edited Wed Dec 22, 2021, 04:10 PM - Edit history (1)

It’s been used in my home county of Idaho when covid overwhelmed the hospital and pushed every other sick and pre-surgical person out of the hospital. Under CSC you activate the medical units of the National Guard, treat the most likely to survive and send the walking dead home to die. I’m sure every other state has the same tool at their disposal.

[KentuckyWoman]

98. Can we also reject

Heart attack and stroke patients who ever ate bacon, cheese, red meat, fast food?
How about skiers and snowboarders injured on the mountain?
What about trauma patients from car accidents where the injured person had their cell phone on?
Maybe we could refuse to treat the guys who stand on the very top of a 6' ladder with a chain saw and end up in a cast (or worse).

People live their lives. All of us live less that perfect choices.

[Hortensis]

101. Here's a scenario: Denying care to unvaccinated precipitates civil war.

This game is called "Consequences" and is designed for those openly calling for denial of care and death for the undeserving:

Setting: The vast majority of unvaccinated identify conservative. Care is denied to and deaths from refusal of care mount, overwhelmingly on the right. And with them rage and fear, and more rage at the government and healthcare institutions. Mobs attack hospitals and clinics across the nation.

They of course decide it's a Democratic plot to "cleanse" the nation of patriots and Christians. (THAT conspiracy theory is always with them and suddenly not entirely irrational -- the numbers who believe triple overnight.) Rioting and terrorism explode exponentially, civil war now inevitable.

This is where it gets good, with YOU: Whether you were blabbing your opinions around town or just on social media, you're quickly doxxed. You may not even have to google your own name, your first awareness may just turn up in other searches or perhaps attack by coworkers in the parking lot at work. Choose your favorite enlightenment, just just realize they're coming for YOU quite early on. Because you begin the game about as secret as the Capitol insurrectionists who posted their crimes for all to see.

From here the possibilities are endless, though if adventure stories aren't your thing you could just plausibly choose to be among the first to die. Short story. Or, maybe you and everyone associated with you run, and run, but you at least survive and three years down the road you sleep in a real bed for the first time. Not your own, which is gone along with everything you owned. Fill in the middle and a glorious future ahead.

Or? Go to town, figuratively speaking. Maybe you manage to take your neighbor's AR-15 away, kill him, and become leader of a militia -- fighting federal troops, who become the enemy somewhere around the time right to healthcare for all was restored by the federal government and order to 17 of the 50 states. (What the hell!? )

Don't like that one? Endless possibilities.

Enjoy.

[hadEnuf]

116. Shouldn't be a problem.

Denying disaster relief to blue states by Trump didn't start a civil war.

But then again, consequences only apply to us. And we are so cowed it will stay that way.

[Philosophizing Fool]

102. Foolish and horrifying

We are losing our minds, and likely both houses, in regards to the vaccine. Talking, seriously, about denying life saving care to anyone for any reason is further from what our party used to stand for then I ever thought I would hear. Disgusting and awful are the kindest words I have for anyone who spews this authoritarian filth. The Democratic party and its members are better than this.

From thinking to speaking such thoughts may be a larger step than speaking is to action. Justification for hate and fear placed upon non-desirable people has a long and hideous history, one which should be left upon the rubble of the past.

Let us not fall prey to the demons among us, rather let us rise up and cast a light so intense we drive away the shadows of hate, ignorance, and fear. Do not become what you fear most.

[Ohioboy]

106. That would not be good , and it would not be right

I can see the other side having a field day over something like this. There's nothing they would love more than to be able to say we are denying care to people. If we tried to justify it, we would sound like them. Let them be the hypocrites.

[roamer65]

108. I've just about had my fill of WHO director Ghebreyesus.

He’s bitching about boosters today.

Fuck him. He’s incompetent.

[yardwork]

111. Hospitals can't do that, but we can start shaming people.

What if people all over the country started telling our unvaccinated friends and relatives that they ought to be ashamed of themselves? What if we started saying loudly, to anybody listening, that we don't think that unvaccinated people deserve to go to the hospital if they get Covid?

Maybe we're losing our democracy because we're enabling its destruction. Maybe public shaming is needed.

(Obviously, I'm not talking about people who are unvaccinated due to genuine medical reasons.)

[Saoirse9]

112. I think when the hospitals get full enough

vaccine status becomes art of triage. And they do go to the bottom of the list. But medical people on DU may correct me.

[Tribetime]

115. I agree 100% they made a choice....stay home god will heal you not science

[Jetheels]

119. What about an online Facebook facility,

Where they can order their horse meds and bleach products, and stay the fu!k outa science oriented hospitals?

[GB_RN]

120. Triaging Patients May Be Necessary...

It was done earlier this year in Idaho, when Delta swamped that state. As people gather, travel and get careless with social distancing over the holidays (plus winter weather which is more conducive to the spread of the virus), the numbers will rise even more than they normally would have and the medical system is going to be swamped, once again. Hard choices will have to be made about who gets access to limited resources. In those situations, the person most likely to live will be the person chosen, and more often than not, the vaccinated will win out over the unvaccinated.

For example, if you have two cardiac arrest patients, both needing ventilators (all other things being equal) and you have one to use, one patient has been vaccinated and the other hasn't, the hospital is most likely going to give the ventilator to the COVID vaccinated patient first. The reasons being: 1) The vaccinated patient is less likely to have the virus coming into the hospital. 2) The vaccinated patient will be less likely to contract the virus while in the hospital and 3), if that patient does contract the virus, the patient will be more likely to survive the virus than the unvaccinated patient, given the instability of both patients.

Sidebar and note of fact: During the height of the first wave of COVID, EMTs were told not to bother bringing in patients who had collapsed with cardiac arrest whose arrests were not witnessed (meaning no one knew how long the patient had been without a heart beat), because of 1) higher chances of not being able to restart the patient's heart and 2) the huge risk of permanent brain damage if the heart is restarted (many patients don't wake up, others do, but with significant impairments). EMTs were told they could "call it" (time of death) in the field. That measure could return if COVID caseload gets bad enough and Emergency Rooms are overwhelmed again. I know this, because I'm a cardiac cath lab RN, and I work to fix these patients.

[Aussie105]

121. I don't get it!

Most societies around the world readily accept that personal freedom comes second to their responsibilities to the rest of the society they live in.
So the vaccine becomes a no brainer. Protect yourself, protect those around you. Simple decision to make.

50 million Americans don't see it that way.
So, what gives?

Oh yeah, they can't distinguish between reality and fiction, as fed to them by misleading TV propaganda channels and social media.

Sorry folks, an increased risk of death awaits you.
(Sorry? Maybe that should be Not Sorry?)

All the harsh suggestions above will come to pass anyway, when the hospital system runs out of beds, but more so essential supplies like oxygen or workers.

[Cherokee100]

124. Amen

Separate hospitals and schools for the un vaccinated. That should make them happy...

[BunnyMcGee]

126. No problem with me, and not brutal, just "hard nosed"

[Missn-Hitch]

127. Jesus Saves

the unvaccinated.

Send them to their churches for treatment.

[cadoman]

128. honestly it would be an enormously popular idea on all sides

Frankly, the unvaccinated seem content to be cared for by the unvaccinated.

Crazy as it sounds, it may be an example of segregation that would be welcome by all sides, though I wouldn't expect the unvaccinated hospitals to be anywhere up to snuff in terms of quality.

[Mike Nelson]

135. I think...

... Everyone admitted to the hospital with COVID gets a shot, immediately! It should be routine... a friend had a stroke. He couldn't recall when or what he had... they gave him a shot.

... I don't understand why this is difficult!


... You go to school, work, or the service and you do what they require. Maybe they can open special hospitals for the Anti-vax people. They can go there, then... they can use prayer to cure. God works wonders. Fine with me... I hope they help people.

[Handler]

140. Send them home

With a bottle of dewormer pills and a crucifix.