yet another right-wing frame: anti-vax, "freedom" not to get vaccinated, to control their own body

[unblock]

all these are put a pro-covid, donnie-cult, right-wing slant on what's really going on.

virtually no one is saying they want to refuse the vaccine *and then stay in their own damn house*.

that's because what they actually want, and what they're actually doing, is
(a) refusing the vaccine
**and**
(b) then taking their unvaccinated lungs out in public, typically with an unmasked nose and mouth, and otherwise engaging in behavior that has a significant likelihood to cause them to contract *and spread* covid to others.


a better frame is to say that they're arguing for a "freedom to infect", or at least "freedom to recklessly endanger others"

it's like objecting to drunk driving laws restrictions by saying "i have a right to drink". well yeah, but you don't have a right to drink *and then put your drunk ass behind the wheel of a moving vehicle*.

or saying "i have a right to keep and bear arms" *and then go into a park, put a blindfold on, spin yourself dizzy and start shooting*. yes, you have a right to a gun, no you do not have the right to then recklessly endanger other people with it.


if someone really wants to refuse a vaccine and then ride out the pandemic holed up in their home, ok, sure, fine, i'm ok with that. it's not like anyone is actually suggesting the government go door-to-door and forcibly inject people, despite some fevered right-wing fantasies.

but as long as what they're really arguing for is for everyone to treat their unvaccinated, high-risk petri dish lungs the same as the lungs of people who are doing everything they can to protect others from a potentially deadly disease, we should call them out on what they are really making a stand for.

they are trying to create for themselves a freedom to infect.

[HariSeldon]

1. And freedom to tie up hospital resources

What about the heart attack, stroke, or physical trauma victims that need ER/ED space, but it's not available because of anti-vaxxers?

[unblock]

2. Yes indeed. They are causing more harm than merely spreading Covid.

[DBoon]

3. If I was their neighbor...

... I'd argue I have a right to raise malaria infested mosquitos.

After all, it is my property.

If they get bit and end up in the hospital well that is due to poor choices they made. Not my problem.

[unblock]

4. Yes! And if they get sick, it's the mosquito's fault, not yours, right?

[DBoon]

5. could be their fault too

Either they aren't right with Jesus or their chakra needs alignment, depending on which folklore you think is better than science

[unblock]

6. Hey I hear ivermectin and bleach keep mosquitoes away

[DBoon]

7. I've also heard bleeding with leeches is great for curing malaria

the blood of patriots and all that

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

8. I honestly don't understand why hospitals

just don't refuse to admit the unvaccinated. Or, if they present with something like, say an obvious heart attack, don't just vaccinate them before admission.

I had a heart attack in December, 2020. Before vaccinations. I honestly thought I might have Covid, even though I was rarely out in public and masked when I was. When I showed up at the ER it w as obvious to those there that I was having a heart attack. I was quickly sent to the cath lab, got a stent in the one artery that needed it, and was home three days later. Lucky for me, Santa Fe has lots of wonderful cardiologists, and the one that I'm now with is someone I'd met socially a couple of years earlier.

I'm vaccinated and boosted. It's not as though the reality of how vaccines greatly reduce mortality is recent news. So anyone who chooses not to be vaccinated can be assumed to have also chosen not to be treated medically for Covid. Period.

[unblock]

9. Much as I loathe and resent the pro-Covid people,

I'm fully committed to the idea that everyone is entitled to proper medical care.

Even those who just committed horrific crimes, even those who harmed themselves or others, etc. everyone, period.


Of course, if while they're there the nurses constantly remind the unvaccinated fools what idiots and *ssholes they are, that wouldn't bother me....

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

11. Except that the Covid deniers wind up occupying hospital beds needed

by others. There are far too many stories of a heart attack patient, or someone else, not being admitted because all of the beds are full with unvaccinated Covid patients, and those heart attack patients die because the can't get care. And meanwhile, the Covid patients often also die because the hospitals do everything, and reading about what everything consists of can be quite astonishing, but they die nonetheless. But those heart attack patients probably would have survived, had they gotten care.

Am I the only person who thinks there is something wrong here?

Honestly, if you don't believe in Covid, if you don't get vaccinate, you are giving up any right to go to a hospital if you get sick with that imaginary disease. Stay home. Die quietly. Do no take up space needed by others.

[unblock]

12. I hear ya, it's a horrible situation

But hospitals can't turn away an unvaxxed Covid patient that is there just to keep an icu bed free in case someone more deserving comes in. That's just a door you don't want to open.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

13. So, the end result is that unvaxxed Covid patients occupy beds that vaxxed heart attack

or stroke patients would otherwise get. Why can't we open that door? What exactly am I missing? That selfish unvaxxed people get to take up health care resources? That those who responsibly get vaccinated are shoved outside while the asshole unvaccinated get to completely take over the health care system? Really?

[unblock]

14. I mean I don't want hospital personnel deciding who "deserves" treatment and who doesn't

Triage based on medical need and medical capacity and likely medical outcomes, sure.

But I do not want to open the door to hospitals deciding that certain people should be denied treatment based on some notion of merit.

Do they turn away a Covid victim in order to keep an empty bed? What if a heart attack victim never shows up and they just killed a Covid patient who might have survived. Or they gave the bed to a heart attack victim who was even more of a hopeless case? Or as long as we're caring about merit, what if the heart attack victim got his heart attack from the police tasing him after he killed 57 people. Should the doctors debate over which one is the bigger *sshole? Oh and what if it turns out the police tased the wrong guy?

And then there's always the "good old days" where some hospitals refused to treat blacks people....


Maybe it's in my dna, maybe it's my emt training ages ago, but I think medical people should treat all patients, period, and not get into who deserves it and who doesn't.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

15. But the heart attack and stroke victims have been showing up.

And denied care. While unvaxxed Covid patients take over everything.

Oh, and how often is the heart attack someone who was tased by police after killing 57 people? Really?

Look, I had a heart attack in December, 2020. Fortunately, my local hospital was not completely overrun by Covid patients, and I was able to be admitted and treated. So I have a lot of understanding and compassion for the heart attack patients who are not able to be treated, thanks (and thank you very much) to the non-vaxxed Covid patients. Look, we've had the vaccine for a year now. It's safe and effective. Those who chose not to take it should be on their own. Period.

[mitch96]

18. "refuse to admit the unvaccinated". Most public hospitals have in their mandate to treat

any paitent that walks in the door. After they are inside is another story...
m

[littlemissmartypants]

10. It's like knowing that you are infected with a deadly venereal disease and

then hooking up with as many people as possible without caring if you infect them or not.

It's pure selfishness. It's pathologically evil.

[mitch96]

19. " then hooking up with as many people as possible" It happened during the aids crisis...nt

[littlemissmartypants]

23. I don't think that works as an additional example. There was a time, during the AIDS/HIV initial

crisis that the exact mode of transmission was unknown, like through blood transfusions. I don't believe that physicians were intentionally ordering blood transfusions to spread the disease.

Although I do believe that some people were being reckless by shirking their responsibilities toward the community at large. The evidence for that being that they were taking a laissez faire attitude toward the possibility of infecting others. I see that being true today.

They also put themselves and others in danger by being in denial. There are some people in denial about being infected today and that's no doubt, a dangerously deadly attitude but they aren't who I'm referring to.

I am speaking more about those who use infections as a type of weapon. I'm not denying that happened during the initial AIDS/HIV period. Like then I think that what some people are doing today is criminal.

I believe that they are sociopaths, who believe that they are above the law and place no value on the lives of others. Their egocentric ways will be and are becoming the death of us all now.

Also, just like the Covid-19 pandemic, the HIV/AIDS crisis isn't over. In fact, it continues to be a major global public health issue. I hope that's not a sign of things to come with Covid but I'm concerned that it is.

Thanks for the reply.

❤pants

[mitch96]

24. "I don't think that works as an additional example"...I disagree...nt

[littlemissmartypants]

25. So...

You believe that all HIV/AIDS infected persons are sociopaths, who believe that they are above the law and place no value on the lives of others? Wow.

[mitch96]

26. "So...".. So what..you are putting your words in my reply to justify your statement..uff

Waiting with bated breath for the ultimate slam dunk reply that will twist my original reply into the ozone ...

[littlemissmartypants]

27. Nope, just reiterating my original point, which you so obviously missed.

[mitch96]

28. Oh, there was a point? Sorry, it must have been very faint. This is boring looking for points

Have a good evening..

[struggle4progress]

16. "What next? Laws against having dynamite and blasting caps in my carry-on luggage?

Prosecuting me if I sell little packets of ricin from my home? Not allowing me to exercise my pet tigers in public playgrounds?"

[ZonkerHarris]

17. The moment one says to you "to control their own body" thank them for agreeing abortion should be

legal for the same reasons.

[mitch96]

20. Totally agree... "my body my choice"... accept for abortion.. then not so much...nt

[LiberatedUSA]

21. I disagree.

Because the two aren’t the same. We should not let them frame it as equivalent. The right to choose and the right to infect are two very different things.

[Johonny]

22. Freedom to them has become listening to Russian propaganda spread on the social media

They've been played. Meanwhile Putin is invading yet another country.

[Mad_Machine76]

29. They want all the rights and freedom to themselves

And none of the responsibility. In a just world, the right side of it would be the responsible folks filing suits against them for being irresponsible about public health. But this is the topsy turvy world we live in.

[peggysue2]

30. Control their own bodies!

The very thing they wish to deny women.

Love how the far right is now in the habit of lifting Democratic demands, using them for their own purposes--control their own bodies, freedom of choice, we're following the science.

This isn't a mistake or coincidence.

The Movement of Lazy Asses & Ignorance with no ideas of their own, only an eagerness to glom onto the passions and concerns of their opponents/enemies.

I'm sure they believe this is very clever.

Lame. Like their vacuous Boss.

[unblock]

31. Indeed. The only reason they came out pro-Covid was because Donnie saw democrats opposed to Covid

They're the party of petulant teenagers.

When they're not the party of spoiled children and screaming babies...