Letting Non-Citizens Vote Is Terrible Politics

[babylonsister]

I agree; I've already heard from the peanut gallery that this is cray-cray.

https://politicalwire.com/2022/01/10/letting-non-citizens-vote-is-terrible-politics/

Letting Non-Citizens Vote Is Terrible Politics
January 10, 2022 at 9:44 am EST By Taegan Goddard

Mona Charen: “Acts like New York City’s cheapen the meaning of citizenship. Voting is not just a transaction. It isn’t just a matter of deciding which candidate will better handle snow removal or trash collection. Voting is an act of affiliation, a statement of solidarity with the nation you’ve adopted as your own…”

“It’s a lead-pipe cinch that this will become a major campaign talking point for Republicans. They will depict this as proof that Democrats only favor immigration because they want to pad the number of Democratic voters (leaving aside that Hispanic voters have been trending toward the Republicans in recent elections). And they will likely find that most Americans agree… This is an own goal for Democrats.”

[Binkie The Clown]

1. The conservatives will beat us to death with this. Such a stupid blunder deserves to be punished. nt

[FalloutShelter]

3. Absolutely..... just stop it.

It does cheapen the notion of citizenship.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

8. .

It does cheapen the notion of citizenship.

How?

[Jedi Guy]

20. I think the larger issue is how it plays out as a thought experiment.

Logically, if non-citizens should be able to vote in local elections because they live in that city, shouldn't they also be able to vote in national/federal elections? After all, they do live in the country. I recognize there are federal laws barring non-citizens from voting in federal elections, but the line drawn seems somewhat arbitrary based on the justification for voting in local elections.

It's a pretty small step from one to the other, and making the argument that non-citizens should be able to vote in national/federal elections is not going to play well.

[Achilleaze]

26. Yet, they gave the Repubes the stick to do the beating

Dumb move.

[Mad_Machine76]

44. Republicans in NYC?

Or elsewhere? And why should we care? States and cities can do what they want, right? They can let COVID run amok in their cities and states and letting non-citizens vote in NYC and we are the ones in trouble?!

[Effete Snob]

28. Do you live and vote in NYC?

How do you feel about people who neither live OR vote in NYC telling them what their policies should be?

[rampartc]

2. voting is a responsibility of citizenship.

the repubs will flail us with this one.

[DeeNice]

4. Citizenship is a thing. We need to get out in front of this. Nt

[WhiskeyGrinder]

5. Several states and municipalities allow non-U.S. citizens to vote, and the peanut gallery was

generally quiet about it until now.

[Effete Snob]

27. Yeah, I don't see the problem here

Other than a remarkable swell of nativism at DU, the general idea is that there are a lot of people who are on the path to citizenship or otherwise lawfully resident non-citizens in cities whose policies affect them.

The funny thing to me is how people on DU who don't live in NYC seem to think they should have a say in what NYC does.

Sometimes the hypocrisy is impressive.

[CrispyQ]

6. If you pay taxes in a city/county,

shouldn't you have the right to vote on issues & candidates in those jurisdictions? Wouldn't that be taxation without representation? If people don't like this law, let's write one that states if you aren't allowed to vote, for whatever reason, then you don't have to pay any taxes.

[Progressive Jones]

11. I agree to non-citizens voting locally (municipal; county; State)

As you say, they are part of the community.
I also like your no vote-no taxes idea.

[PBC_Democrat]

15. Taxation without Representation is very common

Last edited Mon Jan 10, 2022, 05:52 PM - Edit history (1)

For many years I lived in NH and worked in Mass

MA hit me for state and local payroll taxes. I didn't get a say in local or state spending and policies.

That's Tax without Rep is its purist form

[Dr. Strange]

25. If a ten-year-old buys a candy bar and pays taxes on it, do they get to vote?

Conversely, if they don't get to vote, are they exempted from paying taxes when they buy stuff?

[CrispyQ]

30. Ten-year-old's aren't eligible to vote due to their age, so that's a different argument.

Then you could ask, should the ten-year-old have to pay taxes? So yeah, where do you draw the line on taxes vs voting? IDK. But if you are a homeowner or business owner, it seems you should be eligible to vote for issues & candidates that affect your home or business. OTOH, I can see the argument that if you care so much about government, then become part of the nation.

In the end, there won't be a national discussion about the issue. Babylonsister was right. The right wing media is going to bludgeon us on this issue. Just like defund the police.

[Iris]

41. Yes.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

7. Arguing that doing the right thing is a bad idea because of how it polls is pretty gross.

[babylonsister]

13. Might be gross, and I do wish it were otherwise, but

we're going to get bludgeoned with this.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

14. We get bludgeoned no matter what we do, so we might as well do the right thing.

[CrispyQ]

17. You are right.

And partly because we don't do marketing. People will think that non-citizens are voting for congress & president, not mayor of the town they live in, or on issues that affect them locally. And our side will be like crickets. Just like we were with defund the police & tax & spend democrats & the list goes on & on.

[jcgoldie]

22. You gotta love the perpetual pearl clutching on DU

...about all the things Democrats shouldn't do or say because they will be criticized for it by Republicans. If only we just acted more like Republicans maybe those guys would be nice to us I guess...

[Iris]

42. Agreed.

[NurseJackie]

9. Yep... it's right up there with "defund the police" and "forgive all college loans"

... IMHO.

[empedocles]

18. Every year it seems, some Dems come up with a sure bad face, for the Dem Party

[WhiskeyGrinder]

10. Also, definitely not interested in taking policy advice from Mona Charen, lol.

[dalton99a]

12. Federal law doesn't allow noncitizens to vote in federal elections

But yeah, noncitizen voting in SF/NYC will be fully exploited by Republicans

[Klaralven]

16. Maybe it will increase political participation in New York City?

Just 23% of eligible active voters cast a ballot for mayor — or 1.15 million of 4.95 active voters — down three percentage points from the past two mayoral elections in 2017 and 2013. The voter turnout percentage dips even lower, to 21%, when including both active and so-called inactive registered voters. Those are voters who are registered but must cast an affidavit ballot because the Board of Elections has a question about their residence.

https://gothamist.com/news/new-york-city-voter-turnout-hits-record-low-mayoral-election

The addition of 800,000 new voters, many of them Hispanic and Asian, should help revitalize a lackadaisical electorate.

[Jedi Guy]

19. I can see both sides on this one, honestly.

If you live in a city, you should have some voice in how that city is governed. Local/municipal elections for various positions are probably going to have a more immediate impact on one's life, so I get why residents would want to have that influence on how things are going.

On the flipside, it's a horrible look from a polling perspective and is handing the GOP a major talking point. Not only that, but where does it end? Logically speaking, if you should have a voice in your city's governance because you live there, should you not also have a voice in your country's governance? You do live there, after all.

It's kind of a mess.

[dalton99a]

21. Also, from a practical standpoint

The big November elections have federal/state/local issues listed on one ballot

How are they going to prevent a noncitizen voting on a local candidate/local initiative from making a federal selection?

[empedocles]

23. Practical is apparently not a significant consideration on this

[Mad_Machine76]

46. Couldn't they just be given an alternate ballot?

[JCMach1]

24. Worst idea I have heard in a long time. I spent decades outside the US and never once expected

To have citizenship rights in those countries, or the right to vote.

Part of the civic process in this country is becoming a citizen if you aren't one... That's the first step of political integration.

[dalton99a]

31. +1. Voting by noncitizens is a rare anomaly

The few European countries that allow it limit it to EU nationals who meet certain requirements

[Ms. Toad]

29. Except that this is a right to vote in LOCAL elections, not national ones.

Voting is an act of affiliation, a statement of solidarity with the nation you’ve adopted as your own…”

The laws adopted locally (and local elected officials) often have a much more direct impact on the lives of individuals in the community than federal laws and elected officials. We have sizeable and identifiable immigrant communities who are in this country after leaping through all of the formal hoops. These residents are often visibly and ethnically different from the majority, sometimes in ways looked down on by the majority. As a concrete example the majority who, deliberately or out of ignorance, might use zoning laws to prohibit businesses serving these immigrant communities from being located within those communities

We need to learn how to message more effectively, rather than rejecting an appropriate decision to allow non-citizen residents to have a say in the laws and elected officials which most direclty impact them because it looks bad. Historically, blacks and women were told we needed to "wait our turn" because advancing our rights would lose elections for our side. Trans individuals are being told that now. We need to stop sacrificing our values to appease the Republican messaging gods.

[brooklynite]

35. Well, that's different...

Sort of like the distinction between socialism and DEMOCRATIC socialism.

People won't notice the difference.

[JCMach1]

40. Their 'difference' is precisely why they need the minimal Civic engagement

Of citizenship to participate.

We don't need further balkanization governed by very narrow interests when there may, or may not be a commitment to this country's values and may very well be based some disparate, or even non-democratic (Theocratic, hell lots of non-sense) basis.

Even worse, it ignores the elephant in the room: a very needed discussion/reckoning about paths to citizenship.

So, that's a big no.

[Ms. Toad]

43. That's pretty similar to the reasons blacks and women were denied the right to vote

So I guess we should just go back to only white men voting, since no one else is pure enough.

[JCMach1]

47. Not the same at all... Ideas like these also erases any political

Progress on paths to citizenship which is the real issue.

[Emile]

32. Who in the hell thinks this is a good idea? Republicans pretending to be Democrats would

be my guess!

[dalton99a]

33. The "Open Borders" narrative needs a turbocharge

"Democrats Demand Voting Rights for Illegal Immigrants"

[Emile]

36. Unfreaken believable. They will say Kim Jong - un is voting for democrats!

[babylonsister]

37. NYC mayor Eric Adams...

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/new-york-city-mayor-eric-adams-allows-noncitizen-voting-bill-n1287225

New York City Mayor Eric Adams allows noncitizen voting bill to become law

[Emile]

38. So that's who we blame if we lose the midterms?

By god I sure as hell don't see this as doing the Democratic party any favor!

[Polybius]

39. The extreme left in our City Council who authored and passed the bill

It's filled with many who are way out there.

[brooklynite]

34. Apparently we need to give Republicans something new to work with after "Defund the Police"

[Mad_Machine76]

45. Does OP know Mona Charen

And why she shouldn’t be considered a friend of DU?