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Nevilledog

(51,006 posts)
Mon Jan 10, 2022, 01:40 PM Jan 2022

West Virginia's coal miners just made Joe Manchin's life a lot harder



https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/01/10/manchin-bbb-coal-miners-vs-owners/

No paywall
https://archive.fo/FL7jn

For months, Sen. Joe Manchin III has sold his opposition to the Build Back Better proposal as driven uniformly by a brave and hardheaded assessment of the national interest. He has warned that BBB will fuel inflation and that its climate provisions will push energy markets to evolve too quickly and lead to a dangerous dependence on Chinese supply chains.

It just got harder for the West Virginia Democrat to get away with this stance. And the culprit is none other than coal miners in his home state, whose union is redoubling calls for Manchin to support President Biden’s agenda.

What’s happening now with miners seems like a seminal moment. Some of the worst tropes in our politics — Democrats harbor nothing but elitist ill will toward miners, and miners’ “way of life” must be defended at all costs — are cracking up and falling away.

All this emerges from a new report in the New York Times that illustrates the true nature of home-state cross-pressures on Manchin. He’s caught between the miners union and mine owners, who vehemently oppose BBB.

*snip*


37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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West Virginia's coal miners just made Joe Manchin's life a lot harder (Original Post) Nevilledog Jan 2022 OP
Senator, look your grandchildren in the eyes when you tell them you've chosen the owners CrispyQ Jan 2022 #1
He'll buy them a car so they won't call him an asshole until after his funeral. TheBlackAdder Jan 2022 #4
Yeah well I didn't want to be my usual pessimistic self & suggest they were spoiled & bought off CrispyQ Jan 2022 #7
manchin's legacy will be a submerged florida and election violence, not principled stands on certainot Jan 2022 #20
Amen, Strike!!!! McKim Jan 2022 #33
Given that his own daughter was CEO of the company Mylen that colluded CentralMass Jan 2022 #31
Next few decades... 2naSalit Jan 2022 #32
Manchin is management and ownership... Wounded Bear Jan 2022 #2
! LudwigPastorius Jan 2022 #30
Hmmm... support miners or support owners... what will he do, what will he do... nt Nittersing Jan 2022 #3
I'd love to see him perform his "Aw shucks, I'm just a simple good ol' W Virginian" shtick Carlitos Brigante Jan 2022 #5
Yeah, he should do his "good old boy" shtick from his stinkpot yacht Achilleaze Jan 2022 #9
THIS is why the democrats need to have a serious POPULIST candidate waiting in the (primary) BComplex Jan 2022 #10
There is no candidate other than Manchin who has any shot at beating a GOP type... Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #11
Bull shit fwvinson Jan 2022 #13
Sorry, you are wrong...it is WVA. Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #14
So here's how we get around that: calimary Jan 2022 #16
That would be my plan but it won't impact the BBB legislation. And we also have to retain Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #17
It'll probably depend on how the West Virginia population changes and evolves. calimary Jan 2022 #26
Why not a populist independent? ala King in Maine? nt druidity33 Jan 2022 #28
No, a Bernie Sanders type Democrat would never win a general....Sanders won a primary. Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #18
We need a Democratic Dem .. Cha Jan 2022 #22
Yep!!!!! McKim Jan 2022 #34
This message was self-deleted by its author McKim Jan 2022 #35
K&R for *union*! & can one of our senators throw this at his face on the Senate FLOOR?! UTUSN Jan 2022 #6
Miners, supporters, and all Dems Bayard Jan 2022 #8
Polls done in WVA show a strong majority does not support BBB sadly. That is what we are Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #12
Much of the rural and economically challenged....... jaxexpat Jan 2022 #19
Why this isn't done more is beyond me. Ligyron Jan 2022 #37
"caught between the miners' union and mine owners". Prof. Toru Tanaka Jan 2022 #15
All of Manchin's rejections of the BBB come down to just one thing and that is he is now or will be Botany Jan 2022 #21
THIS librechik Jan 2022 #25
The whole thing is just too sad. BeckyDem Jan 2022 #23
Let's throw Manchin down in the coal mine and let him toil Blue Owl Jan 2022 #24
Why is there no significant industry or manufacturing in West Virginia? FakeNoose Jan 2022 #27
I wonder if any other mine owner is as big a dick as Bob Murray. BobTheSubgenius Jan 2022 #29
Why do West Virginia coal miners vote for people who are against every single one of their interests lees1975 Jan 2022 #36

CrispyQ

(36,421 posts)
1. Senator, look your grandchildren in the eyes when you tell them you've chosen the owners
Mon Jan 10, 2022, 01:49 PM
Jan 2022

over the workers. Profits over the planet.

We suffer from lack of imagination, the inability to see just how much our environment is going to change over the next few decades. We being the entire human species.

CrispyQ

(36,421 posts)
7. Yeah well I didn't want to be my usual pessimistic self & suggest they were spoiled & bought off
Mon Jan 10, 2022, 02:09 PM
Jan 2022

just like him. They are in for a surprise, though. It's going to be more than a bumpy ride.

 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
20. manchin's legacy will be a submerged florida and election violence, not principled stands on
Mon Jan 10, 2022, 04:13 PM
Jan 2022

the deficit and the filibuster

those miners need to strike

CentralMass

(15,265 posts)
31. Given that his own daughter was CEO of the company Mylen that colluded
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 07:04 AM
Jan 2022

with Pfizer to gouge people on epipen prices. When the price of a twin pack went from $124 in 2009 to over $600 in 2016. There was also allegations that she lied about having an MBA from WVA university and that that school attempted to retriactively give her one.. https://www.herald-dispatch.com/news/panel-manchins-daughter-didnt-earn-degree/article_63c37b41-e88b-5d17-a786-046b9e035e85.html
I don't think playing on their family valu3s us going to help.

Carlitos Brigante

(26,494 posts)
5. I'd love to see him perform his "Aw shucks, I'm just a simple good ol' W Virginian" shtick
Mon Jan 10, 2022, 02:05 PM
Jan 2022

with those guys. I don't see the whole "Unfrozen Caveman Senator" act working on them. Like it does with the press.

BComplex

(8,017 posts)
10. THIS is why the democrats need to have a serious POPULIST candidate waiting in the (primary)
Mon Jan 10, 2022, 02:46 PM
Jan 2022

wings. A Bernie Sanders type democrat/independent that spans the divide. And someone who will actually vote to make the lives of the PEOPLE of west virginia better off. (i.e., vote WITH the democrats!)

Demsrule86

(68,456 posts)
11. There is no candidate other than Manchin who has any shot at beating a GOP type...
Mon Jan 10, 2022, 02:59 PM
Jan 2022

Last edited Mon Jan 10, 2022, 03:40 PM - Edit history (1)

Trump won WVA by over 40% of the votes...Manchin is the last Democrat in WVA most likely in my lifetime...generations IMHO.

Demsrule86

(68,456 posts)
14. Sorry, you are wrong...it is WVA.
Mon Jan 10, 2022, 03:39 PM
Jan 2022

They vote for Manchin because of his heritage...and when he is gone...just like Byrd...it curtains for Democrats in WVa...why do you suppose the Governor changed his party? This isn't a deep-blue district in New York.

calimary

(81,110 posts)
16. So here's how we get around that:
Mon Jan 10, 2022, 03:41 PM
Jan 2022

If you can’t do anything realistic to fix the Manchin problem itself, then focus on fixing the turf around him.

Where else do we have a chance to flip a red Senate seat to blue (like with Fetterman in Pennsylvania, for example)?

Where else do we need to secure a blue Senate seat that’s considered vulnerable?

Where do we build so his currently-pivotal position goes AWAY?

If we’re stuck with him, then we need to go around him and build enough strength in spite of him so that his vote doesn’t have the unreasonable pivotal clout that it unfortunately has now.

A 50/50 Senate divide leaves us screwed. It is ALWAYS teetering on the brink of toppling on a critical (and inevitably controversial) issue. And add in some flighty mess like Kyrsten Sinema and there’s even more urgency to add Democrats. REAL Democrats who can be counted on to vote the way they should and not wander over within hugging distance of the red team.

We need to add Senators to the blue team.

Demsrule86

(68,456 posts)
17. That would be my plan but it won't impact the BBB legislation. And we also have to retain
Mon Jan 10, 2022, 03:45 PM
Jan 2022

Manchin's seat, the Georgia seat. We have a shot in Ohio... a long shot but still a shot. And I was responding to those who believe they could actually field a populist Democratic candidate and win the senate seat after Manchin is no longer there.

calimary

(81,110 posts)
26. It'll probably depend on how the West Virginia population changes and evolves.
Mon Jan 10, 2022, 08:51 PM
Jan 2022

If more Democrats move there, or register there, or stand up and be counted there, or switch parties and become Democrats, then I'd say the climate may be improving for our side there. These things tend to take time.

But if we hold on later this year, that'll send a message.

And it's still a long time til 2024, and trump's numbers have been steadily dropping.

And his crowds have shrunk.

So his voice doesn't carry like it used to. Same for his "luster" as a "winner." He's steadily changing persona has gone from "winner" to "whiner."

If those trends continue, he won't have the momentum to get back into our White House. But 2024 is a long time in the future, and as we've already seen many times, ANYTHING can happen!

Demsrule86

(68,456 posts)
18. No, a Bernie Sanders type Democrat would never win a general....Sanders won a primary.
Mon Jan 10, 2022, 03:48 PM
Jan 2022

And polls showed those who voted for a Democrat in the primary would not vote for one in a general...you can't compare a general and primary...very different things. In years to come...many years...possibly a moderate might have a shot...but I won't live to see it.

Cha

(296,848 posts)
22. We need a Democratic Dem ..
Mon Jan 10, 2022, 07:12 PM
Jan 2022

one who won't broad brush the Whole Dem Party when it's just 2 who are holding up Progress.

Response to BComplex (Reply #10)

UTUSN

(70,645 posts)
6. K&R for *union*! & can one of our senators throw this at his face on the Senate FLOOR?!
Mon Jan 10, 2022, 02:07 PM
Jan 2022

Last edited Mon Jan 10, 2022, 03:01 PM - Edit history (1)

Bayard

(22,005 posts)
8. Miners, supporters, and all Dems
Mon Jan 10, 2022, 02:13 PM
Jan 2022

Should organize to start running ads nationally to show their support for BBB, and why.

Demsrule86

(68,456 posts)
12. Polls done in WVA show a strong majority does not support BBB sadly. That is what we are
Mon Jan 10, 2022, 03:01 PM
Jan 2022

dealing with.

jaxexpat

(6,799 posts)
19. Much of the rural and economically challenged.......
Mon Jan 10, 2022, 04:04 PM
Jan 2022

citizens of " border " states (as in border of union vs confederate) still see Democrats as Dixiecrats. That's the dna memory of much of my maternal family. I'd hear legends of Morgan's raiders' debauchery from my great grandmother. She didn't live them but she kept them alive with the telling. Pass the old union cavalry sword around and curse Roosevelt.

Ligyron

(7,616 posts)
37. Why this isn't done more is beyond me.
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 12:40 PM
Jan 2022

Well there is the problem of money I suppose. The repukes are funded SO much better than we.

Prof. Toru Tanaka

(1,943 posts)
15. "caught between the miners' union and mine owners".
Mon Jan 10, 2022, 03:41 PM
Jan 2022

GOOD!

Grind that intransigent POS into a pile of coal dust.

Botany

(70,447 posts)
21. All of Manchin's rejections of the BBB come down to just one thing and that is he is now or will be
Mon Jan 10, 2022, 04:42 PM
Jan 2022

... paid in the future big time by fossil fuel industries and anything else is just a smoke screen. One of
the cornerstones of the BBB is clean, green, renewable energies, and the fossil fuel industries are worth
> $1 trillion as they are functioning right now and so Joe sees the BBB as something that must be stopped
and in stopping the BBB Joe might become W.V. only billionaire.

Anything he says about bipartisanship, child tax credits, supply chain, the economy, and so on is just crap.

This is from Sept. 2021


https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216005972

librechik

(30,673 posts)
25. THIS
Mon Jan 10, 2022, 08:43 PM
Jan 2022

yep. TRy to tell WVA this. Will it change their minds? I don't know. But just also point out that the behavior is Manchin trying to imitate Republicans and their donors. Will that help? I dunno.

FakeNoose

(32,579 posts)
27. Why is there no significant industry or manufacturing in West Virginia?
Mon Jan 10, 2022, 09:10 PM
Jan 2022

This state has so many out-of-work people; and it's a beautiful climate, a lovely mountain state, lots of property, low cost of living. Why can't they attract industry there?

It makes me wonder what's wrong with the leaders and politicians of West Virginia? There should be TONS of companies wanting to move there, only hours from Washington DC, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, New York, Baltimore and the East Coast.

The problem is the dying coal industry - they own the politicians and they don't want any competition. The coal company owners act like oligarchs - they don't care how many West Virginians they starve, it doesn't matter to them.

The coal miners union knows their industry is dying and they have only a few desperate years left. The real course is to fight coal company owners by making them secondary, less important in the state of West Virginia. Make the coal owners lose their sweetheart tax deals and land deals that favor companies over workers. I know there are Democratic leaders who can do this in West Virginia.

BobTheSubgenius

(11,559 posts)
29. I wonder if any other mine owner is as big a dick as Bob Murray.
Mon Jan 10, 2022, 11:27 PM
Jan 2022

If so, they are fighting BBB like rabid hyenas.

lees1975

(3,839 posts)
36. Why do West Virginia coal miners vote for people who are against every single one of their interests
Tue Jan 11, 2022, 11:35 AM
Jan 2022

They have a governor, a state legislature, two senators and three congressmen who all sell them down the river and lavish rewards on the companies, claiming that if the wealthy mine owners don't get the benefit, there won't be jobs. Well, the wealthy mine owners close down mines, lay off workers and constantly work to avoid having to pay fair wages.

Democrats, unfortunately, have fed into that rhetoric with the environmental position. Build Back Better will be the best thing that could happen to stimulate job growth in coal country since the Clinton administration.

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