There is no precedent for what is happening in America at this time.

[kentuck]

There is no where to look back to our past and learn from an attempted coup, conspired and led by a former President. There are no guide rules to tell us what we should do?

We are in new territory. We do not know what is around the bend?

That is why we need wise leaders at this time. We need decision makers that can put politics aside and work for the continued survival of our democracy. We will not miss the water until the well runs dry.

Decisions should be made very carefully but they should be made. History has put us in this place and gave us no map on how to get out?

[The Blue Flower]

1. Precedent tells us to insist on justice

History is replete with lessons on taking the right path--and on the consequences for not doing so. For the religiously oriented, just read the words the prophets spoke to their unjust societies.

[kentuck]

2. That has to be our north star.

Injustice is the first sign that we are not on the right path, in my opinion.

[WhiteTara]

18. the trump embeds have to be cleared out

and they were numerous and deep. The agency is still rife with traitors and that's what slowing the process. We don't have time, but that's all we have.

[Harker]

20. Germany was, to good effect, methodically de-Nazified.

We could benefit from similar efforts.

[bucolic_frolic]

3. We must find leaders who rely on the spirit of the Constitution

Real freedom and civil rights, forward-looking growth and political sustainability, an open society rather than a fascist one.

For too long we ignored the concentration of economic, financial, and political power to the point they became indistinguishable.

Our leaders must bend every Constitutional structure and find every loophole to preserve a free society, the society that the Enlightenment sired. Mitch found a way to game SCOTUS confirmations? We must do the same, but for the public good rather than private interests, because that is the underlying tension in our past and our legal structure.

Some look to the mid 1800s - Tyler, the Civil War - for ideas on coups and the breakdown of accepted rule. My sense is even Constitutional scholars don't study it very much, or the contemporaneous data in letters and newspapers of the period is too scant to yield much.

[brooklynite]

5. Which of our leaders are not doing that?

And who would you replace them with?

[bucolic_frolic]

10. I was referring to the red side of the aisle rather than a cleansing

Sometimes I think I speak too generally and am interpreted too literally. I'll make a note of it.

[kentuck]

8. I sense there was a "Big Lie" before the Civil War...

And they had their own MAGA cult that could not be persuaded away from their beliefs. They were prepared to fight and die for their "Big Lie".

Then they bombed Fort Sumter, and celebrated, much like those that attacked the US Capitol. If there is a parallel, I think it would be the time just before the Civil War.

[Midnight Writer]

13. They even had the Know-Nothings, rabid anti-immigrant, anti-progress, anti-education.

I see them as a parallel to the Tea Party/MAGA movement.

[mahina]

22. Gene Sharpe's The Anti Coup

https://www.nonviolent-conflict.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/The-Anti-Coup.pdf

[edhopper]

4. No precedent in America

plenty of precedent from other countries.

[doc03]

6. What scares me in 2020 although Trump lost the election he is still

refusing to accept defeat. What happens in 2024 if we win? The Republicans are going to say we stole the election again and they will
stage another coup. Like they say this last one was a rehearsal. If we lose the Republicans will control the US government and it will be us labeled as traitors up against the US military. This country is 3 years away from a civil war either way.

[gab13by13]

21. Well said,

and once they are in charge it will be at least a generation before they are ousted. I predict an even direr situation. Down the road, 2025, 2026, the purge will begin. Anyone who is opposed to the dictator will be murdered or imprisoned. There will be no anti-dictatorship MSM, it will all be Fox News type networks. Social media sites like DU will be shut down. Everything will be privatized, education, the post office, health care, no more Medicare or Medicaid or Social Security, but hey there are those who are saying just wait a while longer.

I read today where the city of Memphis which is quite Democratic is being carved up to gerrymander out Democrats winning. Then there are those who say, all we have to do is GOTV.

All we have to do is wait, I would laugh if it weren't so sad. The Senate is finally getting serious with the voter protection bills and last night Leader Schumer said we are still facing an uphill battle.

We waited so long trying to pass S1 that it may be too late now even if we can pass those bills. The GQP has already passed laws that now will have to be challenged in the courts and we won't have time to adjudicate that before the election. Our fascist SC would probably side with the GQP passed laws.

Day 28 since the select committee filed Mark Meadow's criminal referral, let's just wait a bit longer, everything may work out?

[BadgerKid]

24. Diversification across social media outlets is key.

Self-hosting has grown during the pandemic, and there are rumblings that are questioning the entrenchment across the board. We need to reach people BEFORE they turn to the dark side. But it's hard to show that "government can work" when other party is crippling the government at every turn.

[Walleye]

11. Yet the media continues it's lazy, boring "on one side, but then on the other side" repo

[kentuck]

12. Someone told them...

"Don't look up!"

[Walleye]

15. 👆

[Midnight Writer]

16. Jake Tapper yesterday asked why Biden was concerned about voting laws in Georgia and not in NY.

He implied that Biden was going after Red State election laws for political gain.

Asshole.

[Walleye]

17. Tapper, is it just easier to repeat the right wing lies and talking points?Earn your pay!

[Septua]

14. "We need decision makers that can put politics aside..."

We needed them by the end of late November 2020...it's too late now.

[MiHale]

19. Why is so little known about the 1930s coup attempt against FDR?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/11/trump-fdr-roosevelt-coup-attempt-1930s


Donald Trump’s elaborate plot to overthrow the democratically elected president was neither impulsive nor uncoordinated, but straight out of the playbook of another American coup attempt – the 1933 “Wall Street putsch” against newly elected Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

Snip

On 4 March 1933, more than 100,000 people had gathered on the east side of the US Capitol for Roosevelt’s inauguration. The atmosphere was slate gray and ominous, the sky suggesting a calm before the storm. That morning, rioting was expected in cities throughout the nation, prompting predictions of a violent revolution. Army machine guns and sharpshooters were placed at strategic locations along the route. Not since the civil war had Washington been so fortified, with armed police guarding federal buildings.

Snip

A divided country and FDR’s emboldened powerful enemies made the plot to overthrow him seem plausible. With restless uncertainty, volatile protests and ominous threats, America’s right wing was inspired to form its own paramilitary organizations. Militias sprung up throughout the land, their self-described “patriots” chanting: “This is despotism! This is tyranny!”

Today’s Proud Boys and Oath Keepers have nothing on their extremist forbears. In 1933, a diehard core of conservative veterans formed the Khaki Shirts in Philadelphia and recruited pro-Mussolini immigrants. The Silver Shirts was an apocalyptic Christian militia patterned on the notoriously racist Texas Rangers that operated in 46 states and stockpiled weapons.

Snip


What might all of this portend for Americans today, as President Biden follows in FDR’s New Deal footsteps while democratic socialist Bernie Sanders also rises in popularity and influence? In 1933, rather than inflame a quavering nation, FDR calmly urged Americans to unite to overcome fear, banish apathy and restore their confidence in the country’s future. Now, 90 years later, a year on from Trump’s own coup attempt, Biden’s tone was more alarming, sounding a clarion call for Americans to save democracy itself, to make sure such an attack “never, never happens again”.

If the plotters had been held accountable in the 1930s, the forces behind the 6 January coup attempt might never have flourished into the next century.

[CaptainTruth]

27. Good question. Of course, this isn't taught in schools.

I must take issue, however, with statements like "If the plotters had been held accountable in the 1930s, the forces behind the 6 January coup attempt might never have flourished into the next century."

No, they would have flourished. We should not deceive ourselves by thinking that punishing criminals today will deter criminal behavior a generation or two from now. Consider for example fascism in Europe. The fascists of WWII were punished, severely, & yet today there are young people 2 generations removed who enthusiastically embrace fascism & wave the Nazi flag.

Criminals should be punished in every instance & every generation, that is our duty, & it is a never ending duty.

[Xoan]

25. When Europe was faced with this dilemma ...

they looked to US.

[CaptainTruth]

26. I would say Germany, 1923, Hitler's first coup attempt, is relevant, if not technically a precedent.

As I recently posted elsewhere:

The Uncanny Resemblance of the Beer Hall Putsch and the January 6 Insurrection

While Hitler’s Beer Hall Putsch and Trump’s January 6 coup attempt bore a striking resemblance in terms of the size of the insurrections and the resulting violence, the most notable similarity is the nature of the lies that led to the buildup of political tensions: Hitler’s lies about Germany’s defeat in World War I and Trump’s lies about voter fraud driving his loss in the 2020 election. Both were big lies that undermined faith in government institutions and gained credibility from frequent repetition.



[link:https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/trump-hitler-coup/|]