One reason Sinema and Manchin vote the way they do?

[kentuck]

They understand that if they piss off the right wingers in their states, they also lose many Democratic voters in the process. The political processes in both states are ran and controlled by the Republican Party. They would both lose their next election.

In my opinion, that is the reality they are dealing with. They cannot sell the Democratic position on the filibuster or voting rights at this time.

They could show political courage and give up their political careers but they are not the only Democrats that are in that position. They just happen to be out front to take the brunt of the criticism.

That's the way I see it.

[TheBlackAdder]

1. Manchin & Sinema will lose their power -- That's why they are against filibuster reforms.

.

They've been palling around with a lot of Republicans -- a lot.

.

[Demsrule86]

7. I think there are more senators who are against the filibuster. They merely don't say it because

they don't have to.

[TheBlackAdder]

8. There are, every Republican.

.

I'm sure there are a bunch that know elections are rigged and people disenfranchised but are too scared to say so.

.

[brooklynite]

19. There are also other Democrats who aren't certain "yes" votes for filibuster reform.

[dsc]

22. we need to know who they are and primary them

our country is completely ungovernable because of the filibuster. We won the presidency by 7%, the Senate in three elections which we won by an average of 5%, and the House by 5% but we literally can't so much as name a post office. Democracies can't function when majorities can't get the things they vote for. The minority party has literally no incentive at all to cooperate. So now we have a government that can pass money to spend on defense, appoint judges and staff the government, and cut taxes. We literally can't do anything else whatsoever.

[Hangingon]

28. I think you are right.

There are still moderate Democrats. More than a lot of liberals think.

[Demsrule86]

34. I think Democrats would end the filibuster bill for voting rights...if the votes are there.

I am not talking about Manchin or Sinema which means it probably won't happen. But I think there may be some Democratic Senators who privately oppose ending the filibuster. God knows why.

[Demsrule86]

9. Also, Manchin and Sinema would not lose power but gain it with the filibuster gone because

you would still need their vote in every bill that passes the Senate. We don't have a majority. We have a 50 50 Senate and the VP breaks the tie.

[TheBlackAdder]

10. Once there are more Democratic senators, they become neutered. Rep. Gallego might challenge her.

.

They need the balance of power to remain at 50/50. She might be facing a primary challenge for 2024.

.

[Demsrule86]

35. And where will these Senators come from? I see a few opportunities but not many.

[aocommunalpunch]

2. That's not worth voting rights. n/t

[Demsrule86]

6. And when the GOP gets back in and they may, they destroy voting right anyway...you have to

protect the seat. I often ask here ...if we lose the seats, where will the Democratic senators needed to replace them come from? Look at the map; we are in big trouble with the Senate and the House is gerrymandered.

[pamdb]

3. Joe and kris

It’s all about the money. Joe is a multi millionaire and wants to keep it, Kris is making a lot of money for the first time in her life and wants to keep “making “ it. She’s into wineries,running triathlons, and apparently dressing and acting like a 20 year old.

[Septua]

24. "Kris is making a lot of money"

They all make a lot of money. Senators and Representatives start at $174K which puts them in the top 10% of earners. Their first priority is getting re-elected; second is attempting to convince the public they're earning their pay and they are virtually unaccountable for their actions or lack thereof. Someone flipping burgers for minimum wage has more accountability than our D.C. lawmakers...

Angela Merkel was criticized for her "attire". She replied that she was a civil servant, not a model. Too many politicians have turned civil service into pure politics, ignoring their responsibility as elected officials, seeking office for all the wrong reasons, with agenda not necessarily in the best interests of the country or majority.

[moniss]

30. Great post

and I would add to that list of scourges the entire political consulting industry and media revenue lust.

[Demsrule86]

4. I agree with you Kentuck...and we need for them to keep their seats.

[Tickle]

5. Manchin is being

Manchin. In 2013 when senator Reid changed filibuster rules for judges he voted against it.

[mucifer]

11. Nope they are greedy, power hungry and don't care about POC or their country.

[kentuck]

12. Whether or not we care to admit it...

Most of us operate in our own self interests. I doubt that Congressmen and Senators are exceptions.

[mucifer]

15. The problem is the laws allow them to legally get bought out

[kentuck]

16. The Golden Rule

Them that have the gold, make the rules.

[mucifer]

17. Lots of countries have made laws that control this behavior. It shouldn't be accepted

[Doc Sportello]

21. So is Mark Kelly going against his self-interest?

He takes a completely opposite stance the Sinema and as someone who voted for both of them, I think he has a much better chance of being re-elected than she does. Yes, you need moderate votes in AZ but a Democrat can't win without a strong Democratic turnout. Kelly will get that; Sinema won't, that is if she is even the nominee. And there's also the fact that Kelly is a much more grounded person than Sinema, so I'll take his approach over hers any day.

[kentuck]

23. " And there's also the fact that Kelly is a much more grounded person than Sinema.."

I think that is the way most Arizonans look at Kelly. As a former astronaut, they see him as a "straight shooter".

[Demsrule86]

36. Senator Kelly will run in the midterm unlike Senator Sinema thus unless we have the votes, I would

hope Schumer would not make him take a tough vote that could cost him votes...we need him to win.

[JI7]

13. Arizona is not the same as West Virginia . Biden won Arizona and so did Kelly for Senate

Both Biden and Kelly have higher approval ratings than Sinema in Arizona .

Without Manchin we lose the WV Senate Seat to Republicans.

But in Arizona we have a higher chance of losing the SEnate seat with Sinema running than some other Democrat. The Democrat that dropped out to avoid a primary with Kelly would be a good one to beat her in the Primary .

[kentuck]

14. Do you think she should be primaried?

Interesting.

[JI7]

18. YEs, if we want to keep that seat Democratic she should be Primaried and a Democrat with a better

chance of winning should be the nominee.

[Demsrule86]

37. She runs in 24. Kelly will run this year.

[Nixie]

20. Yes, a lot of truth to this. This is why they probably benefitted

from fighting with the “progressives” initially. They saw they couldn’t win Democratic primaries, so no need to cater to a far left negotiation strategy in their red home states. It probably helped them with red state voters to be seen as fighting the far left. Attacking them from the left was a mistake.

Plus, they might have just gotten plain old-fashioned stubborn. Neither one liked the two bills being linked, the BIF and the BBB, and that seemed to be where they both started just getting extra stubborn. If you look at the election results, they saw the electorate preferred Biden’s middle-of-the-road approach. All this is a result of the two bills being linked—a really bad idea.

[Emile]

25. When their terms expire, they are done! Might as well primary

their sorry asses and give the voters a choice. At least the primary opponent has a chance. This defeatists attitude is why we have republicans disguised as democrats.

[Demsrule86]

38. No need to waste resources on primarying Manchin...not one else can win that seat. And should

he chooses to run, we do need to help him hold his seat...it benefits us not to have another GOP...could make a difference in who controls the Senate.

[Emile]

39. Still pretending he is the only one who can win that seat. At the same time

too scared he'll lose the primary to a real democrat.

[machoneman]

26. One reason? RW money sent to their campaigns.

[LonePirate]

27. Their votes have absolutely nothing to do with the feelings or views of their states' voters.

Instead, follow the money.

[moniss]

29. You have given

a description but it's really down to something else. Something that is a label from long ago that almost never gets mentioned today. There are always other "reasons" given and the true label is avoided. When someone fails to do what's right in exchange for their personal considerations like money, power or career it has a proper label. It's called being a sell-out.

Over the years there are many examples of people selling-out in order to keep their job etc. Real good deal for them. Put food on their table and a roof over their head by keeping their mouth shut or doing the bidding of those who would harm us physically, politically or in regard to our constitutional rights.

Then again there are those who do not sell-out. Examples are the whistleblowers who do the right thing despite knowing it means an end to their career, lawyers who fought/fight for the rights of people despite low pay or doing it pro bono, environmental experts who work for community groups and refuse to be silenced by offers of big money jobs from corporations etc. I would add to that list people like Colonel Vindman and others like him. I'll always stand with these folks. I will never stand with a sell-out.

[Diablo del sol]

31. Using this logic

Manchin runs to FAUX TV to torpedo Biden right after the Holiday break. Doesn't give Biden a heads up, just undercuts him.

Sinema, runs back to DC after the debate and delivers her pathetic speach on the Senate floor. Again undercutting Biden.

Both have a history of the theatrics, always to the detriments of Democrats.

So you seem to be argueing that it is OK to piss off Democrats - Suck it up and take it?

Not a fucking chance in hell!

[BeckyDem]

32. She knows right from wrong, yet has decided on wrong, damn the consequences.

Link to tweet

[Xoan]

33. What other Democrats?