Y'know what? I think there WAS fraud in the 2020 election.

[Jeebo]

I think I might have posted this here some months back, but, well, here it is again.

Thinking back on the months and weeks leading up to the November 2020 election, all the polls I saw had Biden with pretty big leads, many of them double digits, and the smallest leads I saw were about seven points. And yet, on election day, the official results had Biden winning by only 4.4 points. That's still a significant margin, but with a noticeable "red shift" that I think is suspicious.

And thinking back to all the presidential elections going back to at least 2000, that "red shift" has always been there in every presidential election result. I remember a lot of discussion in the early 20-aughts about the electronic voting machines, many of which were manufactured and programmed by Republican-friendly companies. Where I vote, I have to feed my ballot into a machine that I don't trust as far as I can throw it, and I always feel a little sick when I have to stick my ballot in that slot.

I am inclined to accept the premise that there was fraud in the 2020 election, but if there was, it was in favor of Republicans, not Democrats.

-- Ron

[58Sunliner]

1. What do they do? Cheat and lie.

[bullimiami]

2. Not just. I believe the Red Shift is real and is the difference between the intention to vote

and the ability to vote and have it counted.

There is a concerted effort in many places to make it harder for anyone seen as a non-republican voter, Minority, POC, Democrat, to cast a vote and have it counted.

And they cheat and lie to accomplish it.

[jimfields33]

4. What's weird is republicans have to follow the same changed rules

I’m sure not every poor republican has access to drive to drop off a ballot or even has an ID. They hurt their voters too.

[bullimiami]

5. true. i think they see it as collateral damage. As long as they gain more than they lose.

[Kingofalldems]

7. No it's not weird.

They knew they were hurting Democrats.

[Walleye]

12. Before 2020 majority of absentee ballots were republican

[questionseverything]

38. If they program the machines, it doesn't matter

[radius777]

43. Agree, voter suppression and GOP tricks

which they've specialized in since at least Watergate.

They have always worked to stop PoC and young people from voting and to gum up the election process. Their suppression efforts work even better now that the Dem base is concentrated in densely populated metro areas. Just underfund elections and you have less polling places/machines/workers and thus long lines. Make it hard to vote and people just give up on democracy.

[Turbineguy]

3. Not enough fraud

for trump to win.

[Skittles]

6. Russia helped to install Trump into the White House

there is no bigger fraud than TRUMP

[keithbvadu2]

39. "It turns out that United Russia won the elections in America," 2016

Trump supporters celebrated their victory.

"It turns out that United Russia won the elections in America," Viktor Nazarov, the governor of Omsk, Russia, declared in a radio interview.

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/world/make-russia-great-again-if-trump-lifts-sanctions-putin-could-finally-establish-his-country-as-an-equal-to-u-s&pubdate=2016-12-03

[SKKY]

8. Of course there was, and the planning all started after the first debate...

...they knew it was a sinking ship. One thing you can bet on with the Trump group. What they accuse the other side of doing most vociferously, they themselves are doing. You can take that to the bank.

[live love laugh]

9. Stealing elections and projecting lies is now second nature to Republicans--or first nature.

Grand theft 2000 was jaw dropping but it was the 2004 selection of Bush stunned me and numbed my expectations of fairness at all. I couldn’t believe that we were duped again even as Bush told us all “fool me once...” He fooled us in 2000; then again in 2004.

That was a true red shift moment.

Also, the nonchalance of Graham and McConnell during the last election cycle after sitting on 400 bills and denying impeachment as well as confirming beer guy indicated to me that the fix was in for them and they knew it.

[questionseverything]

10. Hand counted paper ballots in full public view are the solution

(Assuming we are allowed to vote)

[Grasswire2]

11. the indicators -- the essentials

1. voter verifiable ballots, hand marked.

2. strong ballot security, strong audit trail

3. no optical scanner, no machine counting, no wifi transmission, no connection to internet

Yes, a hand-counted election takes longer, but Canada does it in a timely manner. So can we.

[aggiesal]

20. Couple of things in your statement ...

1) We should have hand counting and machine counting. We asked for this in San Diego County, and the ROV declined our request. Hand Counting at the precinct level, Machine counting at the ROV. Then see if they match.
2) When we only did hand counting, back in the day, counting at the precinct level finished around 1 am and the results of the hand count were posted at the voting precinct afterwards. So we could see how the precinct voted. That doesn't happen any longer. I don't believe it takes longer.

[questionseverything]

30. I could compromise, hand count the top two federal races

If hand counts were easy to get if there was a question


Right now it’s so different state to state.

Florida for example has paper ballots but it is illegal to hand count them….a recount means being run through the scanner again

[Mr.Bill]

22. The republicans will say

it's not fair unless their observers can carry guns in the counting room.

I'm not kidding.

[questionseverything]

36. It has become so partisan it will take work that's for sure

By third or fourth grade children have all the skill necessary to sort and stack

Maybe using children to count is the answer

[fierywoman]

25. I believe the Germans have been doing this for decades --

the group that counts each batch of ballots each represent a different political party, so they all keep tabs on each other (if I understand this correctly.)

[questionseverything]

31. Germans do have hand counted paper ballots

I am not sure on how it works but obviously before machines everything was hand counted

[Grasswire2]

13. An election security expert believes there WAS fraud in 2016.

I've forgotten the state. Maybe Michigan? A chunk of ballots was shifted without explanation.

[abqtommy]

14. We do know that a lot of reTHUGnics went to prison due to the investigation into

the 2016 election. That's good enough evidence for me. And we have no reason to
think that they'd change their tactics.

[Mad_Machine76]

15. I was a little shocked by some Republican and Senate wins

They did well there.

[FakeNoose]

16. The pollsters keep calling the same people who lie to them repeatedly

Repukes get their jollies by lying to the pollsters, just to f*ck them up. When will these pollsters figure this out? So much money is wasted on these guys, and they can't tell us anything we don't already know.

[bringthePaine]

17. refuKKKchickens can't believe they failed AND got caught

[aggiesal]

18. No doubt ...

Ask how McTurtle won when he is hated in Kentucky. I believe he was down by double-digits in polls leading up to election day.

Same with Lindsay

[questionseverything]

28. Louisville, the largest city has paperless machines

Makes the entire state a

“Trust me” system

[flying_wahini]

19. Well all I remember is when Kentucky closed the counts earlier when McC took the lead.

Wham, bam it was over. Not saying they cheated but it wouldn’t surprise me even a speck.

[GB_RN]

21. At Least You Had A Paper Ballot...

That can be audited. There’s a verifiable paper trail with a paper ballot. With touchscreen and other, all electronic voting machines, you’re trusting the software to do what the vendor says it’s going to do. If the software is corrupted, or the machine pukes its electronic guts out, etc, your vote is literally lost.

IMO, there is no excuse for not using paper ballots. They are secure and verifiable against the tally of the voting machines.

[joanbarnes]

23. been saying this for years, tRump said so himself 2016, now he pissed he thought it fixed,still lost

[Deep State Witch]

24. I Think That's Why TFG

Has his adult diapers in such a wad about "voter fraud". There was fraud all right - on the Republican side. He knew what was going to happen. When it didn't, and the will of the people prevailed, he was convinced that Team Blue could only win by cheating. When you're crooked, you think that everyone else is as crooked as you.

[dchill]

26. Yes.

[KPN]

27. Of course. Where do you think they get their election fraud claims from -- things they have done

repeatedly in the past. Like reprogramming or hacking voting machines to flip votes. They don’t just make this stuff up, they project! That’s always been their modus operandi. Ours on the other hand has always been decorum, polity, respect for the basic institutions above all else, and acting only on the basis of facts. We’ve suspected foul play in past elections, but in the absence of hard evidence, never deeply pursued “suspicions” knowing they could well be wrong while also having— and demonstrating — abundant respect for our electoral system as well as the importance of the perceived legitimacy assigned to it by the voting public.

I suspect some here would disagree about “suspicions”. They may or may not be right. But I certainly feel suspicions are legitimate.

[BadgerMom]

29. Remember Karl Rove on Fox on election night 2012?

He was absolutely unable to fathom that Ohio had gone to Obama. Why? Ohio was considered a swing state. Why was he so gobsmacked? That always struck me as super fishy.

[Stargleamer]

32. In 2000 it always seemed in the months before the election

Bush was constantly ahead by about 1-3 points.

There was fraud in that election, but it took the form of the S.C. stopping the examination of all overvotes and undervotes in the search for votes that showed a clear preference. Had the S.C. let the recount go ahead, and had overvotes and undervotes been clearly examined, Al Gore would have won and we would have been spared what followed.

In 2004, I don't remember the polling, but exit polls did show Kerry winning in Ohio.

[yobrault1]

33. McConnell, Collins and Graham had

stunning results considering all 3 polled well below what their races garnered…suspicious as it gets.

[moondust]

34. Decertify 2016!!!!

Last edited Mon Jan 17, 2022, 11:25 PM - Edit history (1)

Massive fraud!!!!! Russia hacked the vote!!!!! Undo everything done by fake pResident between 1/20/2017 and 1/20/2021!!!!!!

[brooklynite]

35. Just as stupid as Trump's claim...

I'll repeat a point I've made several times. No losing Democratic candidate, Party official or campaign manager claims that votes were flipped. But by all means, join the3 effort to build distrust in our voting system. That'll turn out votes in November.

[Jeebo]

44. I disagree.

I don't think it's "stupid" to note a fairly consistent shift between polling and election day results and think there's something suspicious about that shift. I do think there could be other alternate explanations for that shift, though. For example, polls of "likely voters" could include people who intend to vote and truly believe they will but are prevented from doing so by voter suppression tactics. Or, as an earlier poster suggested, some people being polled could be just lying to the pollsters to mess with them. But, polling used to be accurate, so why hasn't that happened before?

Nevertheless, I do perceive that that "red shift" exists, and it is suspicious, and do you think we should just ignore it? If it is a real problem, ignoring it is not a solution.

And for all those people who you suggest don't vote at all because they distrust the system, I say that that distrust is not a reason not to vote, but all the more reason to vote. Because when we don't vote at all, that's when the cheaters have really won. As long as we're voting, we're making them have to cheat to win, and they haven't won, yet.

-- Ron

[kimbutgar]

37. Those ES&S results are always suspicious

They hated Dominon because they reported the real results.


I wish the new civil rights voting bill outlaws ES&S because it is partisan.

[keithbvadu2]

40. I do NOT trust voting machines.

I do NOT trust voting machines.

Too easily hacked.

Proprietary software.

Cellphone modems in some of them

No printer for hard copy backup
......... Too expensive? BS on that!

-----------------

PAPER ballots all the way!

[ecstatic]

41. They love to project. And yes,

I think they cheated too. Especially in SC. It's just that when they muddy up the conversation with their accusations it becomes a nasty back and forth situation.

[mvd]

42. AND 2016. Unfortunately in 2016, it was close enough to steal

In 2020, TFG was surprised the fix wasn’t in for him. Therefore his delusional lie.