Joe Manchin finally makes it plain: He is in favor of minority rule

[Nevilledog]

Link to tweet

Tweet text:

Greg Sargent
@ThePlumLineGS
The crowning insult: Joe Manchin finally makes it clear that the real reason he favors the filibuster is it preserves minority rule.

In some underappreciated new comments, he reveals he wants the filibuster to provide a "check" on majorities.

My latest:

washingtonpost.com
Opinion | Joe Manchin finally makes it plain: He is in favor of minority rule
A year of debate over the filibuster ends with the dropping of a truth bomb.
8:47 AM · Jan 19, 2022

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/01/19/joe-manchin-filibuster-voting-rights-minority-rule/

No paywall
https://archive.fo/NmOSp

*snip*


Manchin revealed this in comments to reporters on Tuesday night, slamming the door on efforts to pass by simple majority two Democratic proposals that would protect voting rights and safeguard elections.

The Manchin quote getting attention is this one: “I just don’t know how you break a rule to make a rule.” This means he won’t support suspending the filibuster with just 51 votes, because this would violate precedent dictating that supermajorities are needed to change rules.
But far more telling is what came next. Manchin said this:

There’s no checks and balances in this process. The only thing we have is the filibuster. And if you have a situation we have right now where you have the executive branch of government, and you have Congress, the House and the Senate — and they’re all the same, and there’s no check and balance.

Because basically, [things] just sweep right through, and the same thing can happen if Republicans had everything.

Manchin added that on this matter, Democrats have “changed their minds.” He said: “I haven’t.”

Here Manchin reveals that to him, the filibuster’s affirmative value is that it is a “check” the minority can exercise to prevent the majority party from passing laws. The filibuster is a positive good precisely because it can stop that majority party from unilaterally dictating its way, even if it was legitimately elected by popular majorities to positions of control over the branches of government.

*snip*

[onecaliberal]

1. Right up until we are the minority. That fucking pos will standing back and stand by while

repukes strip the minority of EVERTHING. I despise him more than the bloated tic.

[dchill]

2. Only white minority rule will do.

[dweller]

3. The only minority manchin is concerned for is

The 1%


✌🏻

[uponit7771]

4. He's lying, he was fine with changing filibuster for debt ceiling

[AZSkiffyGeek]

7. Didn't Republicans vote for that?

Not saying he's right, but I think if he could get 10 Rs to agree to change the filibuster rules, he'd be fine with it.

[uponit7771]

14. He wouldn't be fine, he's already said he doesn't want the voter rights bills at this time and right

... now he's using the filibuster as cover so he doesn't have to vote for them.

Manchin has been less than forthcoming when it comes to voting and Synema is even worse.

There's no reason why any of this needs to be negotiated in public, that's beyond ghetto but both of them have made sure it has been at the worse times for Biden.

I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but I think they're the problem

[FBaggins]

28. You dodged the question

Let's try again - didn't that bypass of the filibuster get 60 votes? Do you really not see a difference?

he's already said he doesn't want the voter rights bills at this time and right

Nope. He opposed a few specific measures in the original bill, but he cosponsored the current version.

[uponit7771]

30. Nope, Manchin is not CONSITENTLY stating a "bypass" is available for voting rights. This bullshit ..

... of Manchin inconsistently stating a position on the filibuster stops here.

The fact we even need a lawyer and a couple of forum supporters to understand where Manchin and Sinema are at on voter rights speaks volumes in itself.

They allowed changes to the filibuster for debt ceiling, PERIOD ... they didn't state any of that was needed BEFORE

[FBaggins]

31. Not sure where you get that

The same bypass is available for voting rights.

[uponit7771]

32. Link and quote, you knew that was coming right ?! tia

[FBaggins]

33. What link?

If ten republicans agree to end the filibuster... it's done.

Just as it was with the debt ceiling.

[uponit7771]

34. Nah, need a link and quote on that. Manchin made that CLEAR multiple times for the last year

... so it'd be fairly easy to find.

No "assuming" he'd have the same bypass for voter rights I mean a solid statement from him declaring he'd do the same for voter rights.

There isn't one from Manchin cause

He's

Full

Of

Shit

[FBaggins]

35. Let's see if you understand how this works

There's going to be a cloture vote either today or tomorrow (according to Schumer) to proceed to a vote on the voting rights measures.

Manchin cosponsored those bills. Do you really think that he'll vote "no" on cloture?

Yes or no, please.

[uponit7771]

36. That's still not a link and quote stating Manchin is for same bypass for voter rights, he needs it..

... and I don't care how much ad hom via condescending you add to replies if you don't have an explicit bypass from him for voter rights I'm calling out his full of shitness

[FBaggins]

37. Still dodging?

A simple yes or no will do.

[uponit7771]

38. Yes I do, Manchin / Sinema have not been straight forward. Now, link and quote? tia

[FBaggins]

39. Laughable

If I say that 220 votes can pass a bill in the House and there's nothing that 218 votes can do to stop it... can you continue to claim that it isn't true until I provide a link from Nancy Pelosi saying that she agrees?

There really isn't any dodging this one unless you can get Schumer to change his mind. There's going to be a cloture vote shortly and Manchin is either going to vote to cut off debate or he isn't.

Which do you think?

[uponit7771]

40. OK, 3 times and I've answered your question but you refuse to link and quote his EXPLICIT ...

... support for the same bypass applied to debt ceiling.

Manchin / Sinema can easily vote down debt ceiling the bypass for voter rights and claim they never supported such bypass for it.

Yes, their lack of straight forwardness doesn't afford them the benefit of the doubt on voter rights

[FBaggins]

42. Clicking reply does not mean that you've answered the question.

but you refuse to link and quote his EXPLICIT support for the same bypass applied to debt ceiling

Because it's irrelevant. He doesn't need to "support" a statement that 220 votes passes legislation in the House either. That's just the way the rules work.

Manchin / Sinema can easily vote down debt ceiling the bypass for voter rights and claim they never supported such bypass for it.

Not if they vote for cloture and ten republicans vote with them. And it doesn't matter whether they've ever publicly stated that this is how the rules work.

[uponit7771]

43. You asked, "Manchin cosponsored those bills. Do you really think that he'll vote "no" on cloture?"

I answered "Yes, I do ..." ... what about that is not answering the question?!

Come on, this is going down hill

[FBaggins]

44. Very well then

That's not how I read it... but that's what I wanted.

So now when he votes "yes" on cloture you'll agree that you had no clue in the first place?

[uponit7771]

47. Matters which cloture it is, he's not been straightforward and I'm sick of the lawyer speak from him

... and Sinema's ACTIONS are all over the place.

Manchin, to me, made it clear when he said dem voting rights bill would cause another J6 that he doesn't want to do it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2021/03/24/manchin-warns-democrats-election-reform-bill-could-cause-another-jan-6/?sh=54c895715470

IE the double speak currently on passing voting rights anything ... he's not for it ...

Here, lets say he votes for half the GATING measures I'll say I was wrong on Manchin in an OP ... bookmark that, I'm a man of my word

[FBaggins]

48. There's only one cloture vote scheduled

He said just minutes ago that he’s voting for it. You don’t believe him.

We’ll know how well you’ve read him shortly.

[uponit7771]

50. A meaningful cloture vote in favor of forwarding gating federal voter rights. Not just one for

... standing filibuster that'll ***STILL*** require 60 votes for ending cloture and the voter right bills go nowhere.

Come on man, I know enough about his bullshit double speak to know when I'm getting snowed.

This is what I mean, double speak left and right ... I'm done with it

[FBaggins]

51. That's sorta the point

It is a meaningful cloture vote… and it’s on the voting rights bill.

And, just like the vote to end the filibuster on the debt ceiling, if ten republicans vote for it - the filibuster is over.

And nobody has to find a link to prove it. They just have to be able to count to 60.

[FBaggins]

54. And now that you've been proven wrong...

… any thoughts?

[uponit7771]

55. So Manchin voted to end BOTH cloture procedures or just one ?! I even called him out on that...

... in my post where I said he's not going to advance the VR bills in a meaningful way.

If this was to modify filibuster so they have to stand and debate and still have to get 60 votes in the end that means nothing, it doesn't get the bill on Biden's desk.

I haven't read where Manchin voted for that ... I pointed this out in my post to you

Please, I'm into the 70ks posting here ... I don't fall for useless ego BS ... I've got my head knocked too much for that.

Hit me up when Manchin is part of the solution on the voter rights issue, so far he hasn't been ... freakin name dropping voting rights attorneys as if they're the solution to the GQP BS.

give me a break

[LetsGoBiden]

41. No he didn't

He said that he wants a super majority 2/3 to change any rule he did not say he would not vote for voting rights because he would and he supports it just not overturning the filibuster to do it

[uponit7771]

46. This is false, Manchin claimed he didn't want the first H1 bill and cowrote another bill ...

... that he hasn't explicitly said he would support the "debt ceiling" bypass for.

Yes, he's unwillingness to be straight forward on voter rights bypass (like the debt ceiling) has lost him and Sinema (who said she wouldn't support ANY change and that ended up not to be true) the benefit of the doubt.

If Manchin ain said it he aint doing it, period

[LetsGoBiden]

52. I agree

I apologize I didn’t realize that’s how it was I thought he was a cosponsor for the bill

[uponit7771]

53. he is a cosponsor on the other VR bill but like changed his mind on HIS BBB 1.8 trillion bill ...

... he hasn't EXPLICITLY said he would support a "debt ceiling bypass" for the voter rights bill he cosponsored!!

I'm not trusting Sinema and Manchin unless they explicitly say they're for and against something

[samsingh]

5. that and he doesn't support black people having an equal vote

[madville]

57. How do Black people specifically not currently have an equal vote?

Seen this idea a bunch lately but what exactly do you think prevents Black people from currently voting?

[mopinko]

6. The Filibuster Is Corporate America's Kill Switch

Corporate media pretends Manchin and Sinema are heroes defending honorable principles, while they are actually working to preserve D.C. lobbyists’ best weapon.

https://www.dailyposter.com/the-filibuster-is-corporate-americas-kill-switch/?fbclid=IwAR2crypjfREjogSyOC2ZaeM655wjEW4BhW0kt-ie1nbcL_doLLLy0VP_ZFc

[Celerity]

9. +10000000000000000

[Mad_Machine76]

10. We need to kill the "kill switch"

Elect more Democrats and we won't have to hunt for 10 more R's

[uponit7771]

16. +1, I think we have a chance if we treat this midterm as a turnout presidential election if we

... make Trump being speaker of the house and losing democracy as the stoke.

Then

... use more democrats passing voter rights and BBB as the carrot.

[Mad_Machine76]

20. Agreed

[fwvinson]

22. No shit...are you putting in the money and time to make sure

Democrats win 10 Senate seats. All talk, sounds like to me. I live in West Kentucky. Rand Paul's area. Send me your money and I'll help you get your wish.

[Sympthsical]

27. This in a nutshell n/t

[Efilroft Sul]

8. Concerning the topic of the talking filibuster, Manchin is lying. He has indeed changed his mind.

On March 7 of last year, Manchin stated he would support altering the filibuster rules. He said, "If you want to make it [the filibuster] a little bit more painful, make him stand there and talk. I’m willing to look at any way we can."

Sure, Joe, sure.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/07/us/politics/joe-manchin-filibuster-stimulus.html

[Celerity]

12. there is a HUGE difference between what we are trying to pass as a 'talking filibuster' and then the

sham one that Manchin was and is pushing.

His version, whilst requiring actual live debate, still requires a 60 vote margin to move to a final vote, ours does not.

[uponit7771]

17. Hmmmm, well make him vote for that then. It'll be a slight step in the right direction and if he ...

... voted it down it'll expose his lying ass.

I'm done with his double talk, he's already said he's not for voting rights and he's using the filibuster as cover

[Efilroft Sul]

18. He makes for a good assistant Republican.

[Emile]

11. Well the Manchin is the only dem that can win fans should be pleased!

[Celerity]

15. If Justice runs against Manchin (IF Manchin even runs) in 2024, Justice will likely beat him like a

drum. Justice has outflanked Manchin on both the left AND the right, and is a billionaire, who can self-finance on top of regular monies raised.

[Emile]

21. That right there is why we must run a real democrat. The Democratic voters of WV deserve a chance

to vote for someone who will represent their values!

[madville]

56. It's Manchin or a Republican

There is no further left option in a state that voted 70% for Trump.

[Emile]

58. Moderate Centrist Manchin sabotaged President Biden and our right to vote!

And you still support this POS?

[madville]

59. I don't support his actions

He’s still essential for confirmations in the Senate, and in WV it’s him or a Republican. Primary him with someone further to the left and it’s a guaranteed Republican victory, the Republican Senator won her 2020 race 70-27%.

I think he’s out after 2024 regardless, he will either retire or the Republican candidate has a good chance to beat him, he only won by 3% in 2018.

[Autumn]

13. He is in favor of minority rule as long as Democrats are not the minority.

[2naSalit]

19. And he's full of it too.

The problem with telling and living lies is that you have to remember them all and keep them straight. He's starting to blow it.

[Corgigal]

23. Mitch McConnell

looked over the vast Senate, just in case Trump blew his leadership from him.
He found two takers, and all the rest is acting. Low level acting.

[EleanorR]

24. and republicans have made it clear that their only plan is obstruction

Link to tweet

[Johonny]

25. Congress can't govern. The executive branch will simply absorb more and more of its function

[KS Toronado]

26. Filibuster guarantees us a "do-little congress"

[FBaggins]

29. The author is the disingenuous one in this case

Manchin "finally" makes it plain?

He made it plain over a year ago and hasn't changed from that point. The author pens seemingly weekly imaginings on why this time might be different (even when Manchin literally says "What part of 'never' don't you understand?&quot

Nor is it new that it's because Manchin believes that a minority (of 40+ votes of course) should be able to block what the majority wants. That ball was never hidden.

[LetsGoBiden]

45. Consistent

Consistent he has maintained that he wants a 2/3 to over rule the filibuster. He has been consistent on his record about this when Harry Reid first used the nuclear option getting getting the ball started for either party he voted Reid down as well same thing when McConnell tried to do it Machin voted no on that as well so both times. Are we really comparing a debt ceiling increase to any legislation I don’t even know why that requires a bill in Congress the finance committee should be able to raise the debt ceiling with an OK from the president

[phylny]

60. I'd like to see Manchin and Sinema shunned. By media and by their "colleagues."

They love the attention. F them.

[Emile]

61. and DUers