comment of the day: "We waste time refuting one lie after another while they sit around making up ..

[Demovictory9]

GregAbdul
Miami Gardens, Fl
Jan. 19
Times Pick
I keep asking over and over and can't get an answer...why do they lie? Thanks Mr. Edsall. We really need to have this conversation about why intolerant whites are so angry about America being less white. Why do they hate black and brown children? Why do they insist on their privilge being passed down to their children? Democrats don't eat babies. Trump did not win in 2020. Critical Race Theory is not being taught in any public school in America. We waste time refuting one lie after another while they sit around making up one new lie after another. It accomplishes nothing. Discussing the emotions that drive the lies are the only really productive conversations we have that fix our nation at this point.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/19/opinion/trump-big-lie.html#commentsContainer


Bob
Glasgow
Jan. 19
I grew up in Indiana. I left.

Many people, however, that I attended high school with never did leave. A significant majority of these fine folks are very much adherents of the Big Lie, and operate in a counterfactual universe that contradicts objective reality. For these former classmates of mine, no amount of data, peer-reviewed or otherwise, can convince them that Donald Trump is not the rightful President of the United States, or that the Covid vaccine is not some sinister invention of George Soros and Bill Gates, or that climate change is not a hoax, because it's really cold. Where they are at. Right this minute.

For a long time, I tried to "connect" with these people, and patiently engage them with counterarguments and parallel examples that would lead a reasonable person to consider their stance. But these are not reasonable people. My former classmates only know that America is the by-golly-bestest country in the history of the universe, and that there is one true American Way, and that Donald Trump embodies that Way. Any attempt to persuade my former friends to the contrary is a waste of time.

Recently, one former classmate (and former good friend) became so indignant with me, that he actually threatened to "come over there" and "teach [me] a lesson". I pointed out that he would need a passport to do this. He doesn't have one, just as many of his like-minded classmates do not. Why travel, after all, when you've already "got it all" right there?

54 Replies1766 RecommendShare



Pedigrees
SW Ohio
Jan. 19
“In an economically unequal society, it is important for the conservative economic party to use culture war politics to win elections because they are unlikely to win based on their economic agenda.”

Yes. This. A thousand times this.

The Republican Party's true agenda is to make life harder for the masses in order to make life ever easier for the elite so they've got to come up with some reason, no matter how ridiculous, for the masses to vote for them. The only thing Republicans love more than low or no taxes on the rich is even lower wages for the rest of us. Honesty about that would make them popular only with the rich so they've got to come up with something to buy votes from the very people whose wages they want to suppress.

The fact that so many Americans are gullible enough to believe them is what's going to cost us our democracy.

18 Replies1259 RecommendShare

[renate]

1. the stuff you bolded is so important

The GOP now consists mainly of people who do not live in reality. Their constituency will literally drink urine or inhale hydrogen peroxide to fight Covid if some rando on a YouTube video tells them to.

The political leaders and YouTube randos and pillow manufacturers will lie about anything and the credulous people who have been made to feel like they're in the secret club will instantaneously and uncritically accept it. There is no point in trying to use reason on people who do not make decisions based on reason.

But the randos get all the oxygen, because it's so distracting and frustrating to watch them getting their likes on social media. Well, nuts to them.

There are enough independents and politically passive but persuadable people who would be open to hearing what the Democrats are doing (or trying to do while being blocked by Republicans). Let the GOP eat their horse paste and post conspiracy theories while we completely ignore their ramblings.

[LittleGirl]

3. Exactly! eom

[msongs]

2. refuting lies is defensive & lets them make the rules. ignore the lies and offer

some truths - offense is the best defense...

[Emile]

6. Bingo +1

[ProfessorGAC]

8. Adding On

Be unafraid to call them “lies”.
Not misinformation, not untruths, not falsities. LIES!
Then, don’t correct it.
Call them liars as if that is fact, and put them on the defensive to try to explain the unexplainable.

[cloudbase]

4. Just say this:

If you stop telling lies about us, we'll stop telling the truth about you.

[modrepub]

5. In Truth, They Make Life Harder For Their Supporters

so let them.

Democrats spend a lot of energy trying to be "nice" to people who don't want "help". The Republican party's coalition is white rural and suburban folks. Most of the rural Republican areas don't have a tax base large enough to support their own public infrastructure, or any type of real economic vitality. Dems push for spending programs and support across the board. Republicans mock them, vote against them then tout all the great stuff they've "gotten" for their constituents. Then when the Republicans get power they push tax cuts, increase the debt and blame it on tax and spend Democrats.

Enough people. Not everyone wants your help. Stop offering. Do some analytics to show who is paying taxes and whose consuming them. Keep taxes local and provide support to those folks who truly want it and are willing to pay taxes to support what they want. Keep people engaged in local politics, which means get tangible results. Big picture programs are great but I'll take a local program that accomplishes what it sets out to do. You do these things and people will respond and stay engaged in politics.

Being cynical, failing to do what you promised only drives down participation and hands victories to Republicans who are kings of negativity. That's how they keep their base engaged; anger at others.

[Demovictory9]

7. That's "how they keep their base engaged; anger at others."

Yes..they are masters at this