If Something We Want Simply Can't Be Done at This Time,

[MineralMan]

there is zero point in discussing it. Things like impeaching Supreme Court justices, just for one example. There is absolutely no chance of that happening with the current makeup of Congress. So, there is no point in spending any time talking about it.

Instead, we should focus on things that actually can be done, like increasing our majority in the House and Senate. But, even there, if a Senator isn't up for election until 2024, we can't do anything about that, either. Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema, for example, do not have to run for reelection until 2024, so yammering about replacing them them this year is a worthless waste of time.

Why do we not turn our attention to races that we have some possibility of winning in 2022? Why are we wasting our time chattering about stuff that is impossible? How does that benefit us in any way? It does not, but it sure wastes our time to tilt at windmills.

Perhaps let's refocus. Maybe let's do what is doable and worry about what is not until we accomplish the doable things.

That's my suggestion.

[Mr. Ected]

1. Couldn't agree more. We need to train our sights on winning elections

Last edited Mon Jan 24, 2022, 03:07 PM - Edit history (1)

And seeking justice for those who would overturn an election.

There is no way that we can push through meaningful legislation at this time, not with the contrarians on the other side of the aisle blocking us.

Might as well shore up our democracy and push the authoritarians out. Then and only then can our dysfunctional government begin to function normally again.

[MineralMan]

6. Exactly.

[Hortensis]

33. Agree. Most of those demanding the impossible have let

into their heads those who are working to demoralize potential voters and distract them from what we are doing.

[wryter2000]

2. I have one quibble

The examples you give are fine. Somethings we want also include voting rights for everyone and a woman's control over her own body. I'm not going to stop thinking about them because we have better things to do.

[MineralMan]

3. Yes, of course.

If we cannot get the needed laws passed, then we must turn to other methods. For example, organizations already exist that are soliciting funds to help women get to places where abortions are available, until we can win enough seats in Congress to make changes in the laws to fix that. You can help by donating to those organizations and working toward increasing our congressional and state legislative majorities, or creating new majorities.

As for voting, the answer for now may be to assist people in registering to vote and in voting within whatever strange rules some states are setting up. There will still be elections. There will still be a need for voter registration drives and assistance in getting to places to vote. Any of us can work on that right where we live, as needed. If we can't get the needed laws passed, then we must do things another way. Keep in mind that the same rules that make it hard to vote for one side make it hard for the other side as well. So, we help our side to find ways for people to vote and leave the other side to figure it out for themselves.

We always have to deal with the realities that exist. Always. We can, if we have the will to, and in so doing we will make it easier to get where we want to go.

[bucolic_frolic]

4. Lame. What would MAGA Republicans do?

[llashram]

5. yep

[Act_of_Reparation]

7. That's not really true, though.

How are our representatives supposed to accurately gauge what we want if we're quiet about it?

Even if we can't accomplish these things at present, we should at least have a "to do" file, you know?

[MineralMan]

9. Of course we should tell our elected representatives what

we want. That's a given. That's not the problem.

We need more of them on our side. That is the problem to be solved, quite frankly. That takes hard work and dedication to getting people elected to office.

All of elected officials I have supported and helped to get elected agree with me. They are not the problem. The problem is that there are not enough of those.

Everything is about our representation. Locally, statewide, and nationally. Nothing is more important than helping more people who believe as we do win election and increase or create a majority. Nothing is more important than helping people vote. If we can't do it through laws, we can do it by getting more people elected who will create the laws we need.

[Wounded Bear]

8. Sound advice, as usual MM...

we need turnout at 2018-20 levels to continue.

[MineralMan]

11. Yes. And that's something we can do.

Our help is material help, if we focus it on getting more people to vote for people who will change things for the better. Nothing is more important than that.

[jaxexpat]

10. The greyhounds never catch the fake rabbit.

[ck4829]

12. This is why our country is going down the tubes

We went from "Let's go to the moon", "let's build an interstate highway system", "let's do the wholesale eradication of diseases" to "*Sigh* Why do we even bother? It's impossible. Just a waste of time..."

It's everywhere.

[MineralMan]

13. We can do great things if we will do them.

If we're not willing to do them, then they won't get done.

[DENVERPOPS]

14. Great Point MM

And prioritize the things we need to do..........

I use the statement: On a scale of one to a million, is this item a one or a million.?????????

So many piss around with petty things, that we lose sight of the CRITICAL items....

I see where Pelosi is proposing a trading ban by members of the legislature. I agree that they need to do this, but in my opinion it would not be a high priority on my to do list if I were a Dem Politician.......

[gab13by13]

15. Saying that all we have to do is GOTV,

is damn scary to me, because I believe we have to do more. Has anyone been paying attention to what GQPers are doing to cheat?

I ran into a friend of mine on the last hole of the golf course. I made him a bet, loser buys the drinks. I set the rules, I gave him 2 strokes on the par 4, but I got 1 throw. We were both putting for pars, he had a long putt but he missed. I said, I want my throw. I picked up his ball and threw it in the creek. Do I need to explain what my story has to do with voting?

Pa. will never take back the state House because of gerrymandering, and that was from the 2010 gerrymandering. Every election in Pa. more people vote Democratic and Republicans gain seats. Republicans have gerrymandered popular Democrats right out of their district, Republicans have moved 2 popular Democrats into the same district.

I will walk through hot coals to vote and can't wait for John Fetterman to replace Pat Toomey in the Senate. I have no doubt that Fetterman is going to win in a fair election, in a fair election.

I am 100% behind GOTV, because it appears that's all we have left.

Don't even ask me about why the Cyber Ninjas were allowed to break state and federal laws.

[MineralMan]

18. It's not just GOTV at all.

It's far more than that. We can all do things, but not everyone can do everything.

And some will just throw up their hands and do nothing at all.

[gab13by13]

25. Have you listened to Marc Elias the past 3 weeks?

Elias has been doing more to safeguard our election than any other person in the US. He has been pleading for 3 weeks for help from Congress. In Marc's own words, I can't do this by myself, I need help from federal legislation. Elias went on to say that something must be done soon because time is running out. Elias said, we have a matter of weeks left to get voter legislation passed.

What should I glean from Marc's comments. The man has filed 36 law suits trying to keep our elections fair and he is despondent.

Hey MM, a bet, 1 hole of golf for charity, I set the rules, are you game?

[MineralMan]

27. No, I haven't.

[Brainfodder]

16. Corruption. For the (rich) people, by the (rich) people....

All the whining in the world isn't changing what these greedy ______s are doing.

At this point they need dragged out of their mansions and.....

[Orrex]

17. None of us here can do anything at all, so perhaps we should discuss nothing

Sure, we can try the grass roots thing and call our Senators and sign meaningless online petitions and so on, but we can't actually do anything to get done the things we want.

[MineralMan]

20. Actually, you are woefully incorrect.

We can do many things. We can work on or fund voter registration drives and transportation assistance to polling places. We can work on or fund voter education programs. We can work on or fund programs that help women gain access to and transportation to places where they can obtain abortions.

Each of us can help a few people who might not have a way or know how to vote. Each of us. Even if you help only one person who would not otherwise vote, you will double your vote.

All of us here can do things. And we should.

Some of us here, however, will simply throw up their hands and do nothing beyond telling us we can do nothing.

You choose your path. I'll choose mine.

[gab13by13]

26. In other words, GOTV.

That's all we have MM.

[MineralMan]

28. Well, that would work, if we actually did it, you know.

If the history of mid-term elections is any guide, though, we won't do it enough. I suggest we change that. I'll be doing those things, as I always have. I can't do as much as I used to, now, at age 76, but I'll be working on it.

With any luck, others will join me.

[Orrex]

29. LOL. Sure. Then let's discuss only those things.

You frequently seem to appoint yourself gatekeeper as to what can and can't be discussed, and what subjects we can or can't find frustrating. You have taken it upon yourself to declare by fiat that we may not discuss Garland's ongoing apparent inaction, nor Republicans' ongoing and obvious corruption, nor the failings of the CDC to issue a clear message re: covid. Since we have no power to change any of those things, by your admonition we cannot discuss them.

That's adorable.

[MineralMan]

30. The funny thing is that I have zero authority over anything.

You, and everyone else, are perfectly free to ignore any or all of my suggestions.

But, you don't. Again and again, you tell me that I'm trying to control what you and others do. I'm not. I can't. I have no interest in doing so.

And yet, here you are, once again, telling me what I'm trying to do. I just make suggestions. You do whatever you want. So does everyone else. Perhaps I will inspire someone to do something from time to time. Clearly, it won't be you, though. Oh, well...

In any case, I think I'll just continue to make observations and suggestions.

[Orrex]

34. Believe me, I ignore a great many of your posts, as I expect you do mine

But you seem also to think that the only options are "agree" and "ignore."

Sometimes I post to disagree with a post not because I expect to change their minds--which too often is impossible for reasons outside of my reply--but rather to demonstrate to others that not everyone is in agreement with the post in the first place.

Post whatever commentary you wish, but don't expect people to take your "thou shalt not" decrees too seriously.

[Bob_in_VA]

19. Don't disagree

about impeachment but there does exist the possibility, however faint, that by pursuing impeachment evidence will be uncovered that could lead to prosecution for criminal acts. Were someone in DOJ be tasked with developing evidence for the impeachment of, say, Brett Kavanaugh, he or she may well find evidence of perjury or other crimes. Putting ol' Brett in the slammer would remove him from the Court as effectively as impeaching him and wouldn't require a 2/3s majority vote in the Senate.

[CloudWatcher]

21. What is "... at This Time"

"...there is no point in spending any time talking about it. "

But how small a window is "at this time"? A day, a year, an election cycle, 10 years, a lifetime?

If public opinion needs to change to accomplish something, talking about it is extremely worthwhile,
even if there is zero chance of it happening quickly.

I'm reminded of the old Apple commercial

To take your "impeaching Supreme Court justices" topic as an example. We "should" be raising
awareness that our Supreme Court is seriously broken and discussing both how to fix it and
what to do in the future to prevent similar abuses. It is a fine topic of discussion to new and old
candidates to get their thoughts on how to reform the court. Of course, nothing will change in
the next few (many) years, but it'll never change if we don't discuss it.

And of course this doesn't mean we shouldn't try and accomplish everything we can in the short
term. But I'll take exception to the assertion that "there is zero point in discussing it."

[MineralMan]

22. It's funny that you show Gandhi as an example.

He was a doer, not a discusser.

[mahina]

23. This came up on Andy Slavitt's In The Bubble podcast

With John Favreau
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/in-the-bubble-from-the-frontlines/id1504128553?i=1000548792854

I agree MM

[MineralMan]

24. Thanks.

[CaptainTruth]

31. IMHO we need more focus on GOTV.

We need to hold the House & Senate, period!

[MineralMan]

32. I definitely agree.

[bigtree]

35. that's not how advocacy works

...if we pare down our demands to what politicians say they'll support, that's all we'll get or should expect from them.

You couldn't be more wrong about this.

[Scrivener7]

36. Right? I don't believe that those in your photo are "yammering."

This thread is bizarre.